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Off My Mind: Why Red Hulk is a Better Avenger than Hulk

Regardless of which color you prefer or who's been a Hulk longer, each has their strong points and Red Hulk is what the team needs right now.

Unless you've managed to avoid all the trailers and clips for The Avengers, you've probably heard Tony Stark's line, "We have a Hulk."

That line brought a smile to the faces of comic book readers but it is a very valid point. The Avengers are indeed Earth's Mightiest Heroes. To live up to that name, they need to deliver the goods. In other words, they have to be able to back up that claim. There's pretty much nothing more intimidating than having a huge massive Hulk capable of smashing anything in sight.

While Bruce Banner and Thunderbolt Ross are two completely different individuals, they are both Hulks and have both been part of the Avengers. That's where the similarities end. As Hulks, they offer different things to the Avengers. We might be seeing Banner/Hulk in the movie but Red Hulk is proving he's the better Hulk to have on the team.

== TEASER ==

Now we've seen many different versions of the green Hulk. We've had the pure rage one that would provide an incredible amount of strength to the team. Strength isn't everything and they do have other powerhouses on the team. We've also seen the more intelligent version of Hulk. That's where he could be an asset. An extremely powerful and intelligent member is something every team would love to have. Hulk may have been able to maintain that smart persona from time to time but it always falls apart.

Red Hulk is exactly what the team needs, especially with AVENGERS VS. X-MEN going on.

As the Avengers embarked on the battle against the X-Men after Cyclops attacked Captain America, Red Hulk was there barking out orders. As a military man, he was telling heroes with more superhero battle experience than he has what to do. He was telling them that they need to fight smart. They need to take out those they know they can defeat first. They can't think of their opponents as friends. They need to go in and put a stop to the situation as fast as possible.

It's not all about strength.

A year ago I brought up what might be the one best superpower to have. It has nothing to do with the fact that I was a high school math teacher for a while but intelligence is key. Knowing how to defeat your enemy is a bigger deal than simply being able to smash one.

Banner was a Hulk for a lot longer than Ross but when he put his military mind to use, it was a different game.

The same can be applied to the preparations for facing the X-Men. Hulk would want to go in and smash everyone and everything. Destroy it all until the battle was over. Ross knows you have to be strategic about it.

That's also what makes Captain America a great leader. He may have the super soldier serum in him but its his ability to lead that makes him one of the best Avengers and capable of leading Asgardian gods and others.

I like Hulk. He's a great character but he's not known to be a team player. Even when he was hanging out with the other Hulks, it didn't last long. Red Hulk is a smart guy. He has experience dealing with super-powered enemies. The atmosphere in the Marvel Universe is changing. The Avengers' enemies are getting smarter as well. Red Hulk may provide an enormous amount of strength but its his mind that makes him a valuable member.

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Posted by Or35ti

I'd like to see Red Hulk contribute more tactically, maybe even as Captain America's co-strategist. A lot of these great characters have their tactical experience and wisdom ignored so the leader can shine alone, mainly Red Hulk, Thor and also Wolverine.

Posted by the_fallen11

I like Ross, even better than Banner. Yeah, we get it Bruce...your angry. Stop crying about it. And for the record. Ppl need to stop hating on Daredevil......he's awesome. And I'm happy he's involved in this fight.

Posted by skaarason
@the_fallen11 said:
I like Ross, even better than Banner. Yeah, we get it Bruce...your angry. Stop crying about it. And for the record. Ppl need to stop hating on Daredevil......he's awesome. And I'm happy he's involved in this fight.
couldn't have said it better !!
Posted by TerryMcC

Indeed! I too think they should keep the mustache.

Posted by wmwadeii

I always wondered why Red Hulk wasn't considered one of the "Good" guys and on a team earlier. My only reasoning was his intentions and mind set was like a "Mad Scientist" and was only out for one thing, killing the Hulk. Good to see they are getting him back to his roots as a Team guy in charge similar to his military background.

Posted by Lvenger

I agree. Ross is a much better member for the Avengers than the Hulk. As well as possessing Hulk level strength and durability, he is also a brilliant military tactician. And he's a much better character (in his own series) now that Loeb isn't involved with him.

Posted by sesquipedalophobe

Rulk is pretty much the answer to the brilliant Hulk in the nineties becoming yet another version to the ever convenient dissociative idenity disorders plaguing comics. Even that amalgam Hulk failed to join an established group except maybe the Pantheon, but it was all too sketchy and boring. Hulk is pretty much an inconsequential character when it comes to team-ups, whereas Rulk has had comrades and subordinates nearly his entire life.

The mustache thing is irrelevant, because no one bothers to notice that certain artists seem to forget the rest of Hulk's hairline when they focus on his pectorals. He usually looks like my sister's cabbage patch dolls did when I was in a barber phase.

Posted by wmwadeii

@Kaaable said:

why dont the xmen get all their telepaths and just shut all of them down? like emma professor x quintin quire rachel summers psylocke?

I was always curious to this as well. Reminds me of playing SWTOR the other night and a Sith strangles somebody. I think to myself why do they even bother with their enemy just kill them. What change does a simple smuggler have against somebody that can push thoughts and throw you into the air, shooting them is not an option anymore.

Posted by frozenedge

@Kaaable: Logan has quentin, rachel, and psylocke is split between both teams. Nobodies knows where the hell prof. x is but he's probably doing a lot of walking before marvel decides to take his legs away again. And I don't think even Emma could take out all the avengers coming after them since they're probably all prepared for that.

Posted by Roxanne Starr

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

Still dont see the point of a Red Hulk ...pft Il wait until a blue oe shows up or better yet we can have a whole emotinal spectrium of Hulks

I don't see the point of any Hulk. I think the whole agenda behind the creation of the Hulk was to surreptitiously imply that scientists have anger management issues.

I guess that made scientists (who held an almost God-like status post WWII) seem more human to the children of the Baby Boom generation.

Posted by Roxanne Starr

P.S. The character of the Hulk as been irrelevant for at least 30 years.

Posted by lorex

Its very simple except for thetimes when Banner has Hulk under control the classic Hulk is for the most park a mindless beast acting on instince fuled by anger Red Hulk on the other hand has a experienced soldier beneth the red skin and as far as I can tell has never said stupid things like Hulk smash.

Posted by KEROGA

i belive the only reason banner isnt on the team anymore is because of WWH, i still dont like red hulk

Posted by Mezmero

Still can not bring myself to be excited for the movie at all however I am highly anticipating the remainder of the cartoon's 2nd season. Like a lot of people I don't have a particularly high opinion about the Red Hulk stuff in the comics but I think if anyone can make that into a cool and digestible story its the directors of that awesome cartoon. His origin and design make him way better as a villain than a hero.

Posted by romica1969

@Illuminatus said:

They'll get creamed within ten seconds of landing, and if they manage to survive the fall, even a low ranking X-Man could mop the floor with all three of them simultaneously.

There's that typical X-fan arrogance. Maybe if you knew anything about the characters or their capabilities, you'd realize that they're more than capable of holding their own against the X-Men. Black Panther in particular is an extremely dangerous opponent... he'd leave a pile of broken mutant bodies in the sand.

As to the overall point, I have to agree. It's strange that the Red Hulk has become a much more interesting character than the original. Of course, his title has seen a great improvement in the quality of writing over the last couple of years, while the Hulk has mostly been an incomprehensible mess since WWH. I love the idea of the Hulk being on the team, and it's gonna be friggin' awesome seeing him in the movie... but the Red Hulk has become a much more valuable character in the comics.

Posted by Kallarkz

I personally like rulk. I think he adds a heck of a lot more to the mu than Bruce does. Yes I haves thought about that statement and stand by it. Bruce's whole personality disorder and his unwillingness to help is older than dirt. I am tired of him being on the run or hiding, or the fact that his character can never grow. He will always be a scientist with age issues and the hulk will always be constantly mad and only able to show the shallowest form of any other emotion. Rules series for the most part has Been great. I truly appreciate how his character has been written as well as his decision to change his life. Not quite sure why everyone hates on the hulks but all the different spiderman whom I love btw, are never talked about. Peter Parker, venom, kaine, miles, carnage, Eddie. There are a host of spider characters each have their own different story and provide something special to their own universe and world. I am really glad that rulk has been able to sustain his own series and hope to read more of him in the future.

Posted by Mercy_

@VinceNotVance said:

@Mercy_ said:

HATE Rulk

who cares srsly

shhh ur face

Moderator
Posted by Kairan1979

Hulk is a superhero. General Ross is a soldier who sent a good portion of his life trying to kill him. Now you give Ross the powers of Hulk and suddenly he is better? It's like saying that J. Jonah Jameson with spider powers is better than Spider-Man.

Posted by Mega_spidey01

they are both good characters.

Posted by feargalr

Well I don't read the red hulk book... but I absolutely hate the character, like with a passion. I hope Colossus kills him, right in the face.

Posted by Illuminatus
@romica1969 said:

@Illuminatus said:

They'll get creamed within ten seconds of landing, and if they manage to survive the fall, even a low ranking X-Man could mop the floor with all three of them simultaneously.

There's that typical X-fan arrogance. Maybe if you knew anything about the characters or their capabilities, you'd realize that they're more than capable of holding their own against the X-Men. Black Panther in particular is an extremely dangerous opponent... he'd leave a pile of broken mutant bodies in the sand.

Listen, I could really care less if you think I'm some typical, arrogant X-Men fan that oozes with a lack of knowledge on Black Panther's capabilities (despite the fact that he is one of my favorite street-levelers in all of comics). Really, you have three flipping posts and you're calling me arrogant? Quit trolling. 
Posted by Vance Astro
@romica1969 said:

There's that typical X-fan arrogance. Maybe if you knew anything about the characters or their capabilities, you'd realize that they're more than capable of holding their own against the X-Men. Black Panther in particular is an extremely dangerous opponent... he'd leave a pile of broken mutant bodies in the sand.

As to the overall point, I have to agree. It's strange that the Red Hulk has become a much more interesting character than the original. Of course, his title has seen a great improvement in the quality of writing over the last couple of years, while the Hulk has mostly been an incomprehensible mess since WWH. I love the idea of the Hulk being on the team, and it's gonna be friggin' awesome seeing him in the movie... but the Red Hulk has become a much more valuable character in the comics.

You can disagree with some without insulting them.
Moderator
Posted by ReVamp

Both suck in the Avengers.

Rulk because he sucks as a character, Hulk because he doesn't fit.

Posted by Vance Astro
@ReVamp said:

Hulk because he doesn't fit.

He's a founding member though....
Moderator
Posted by ReVamp

@Vance Astro said:

@ReVamp said:

Hulk because he doesn't fit.

He's a founding member though....

What does it matter? Galactus could be a founding member, wouldn't make him fit. And technically, Cap was "promoted" to "founding member" (to have voting power and whatnot). Don't know how that makes sense, but its Marvel logic, whatcha gon' do.

Posted by Wowlock

'' OMG We MUST BEAT THE MUTANTS OR THE WORLD WILL EXPLODE TOMORROW ! '' .... yea still not sensing the REAL meaning behind that reasoning...even with Red Hulk's description.

Aside from my ''Another EVENT YAY ! '' rant....

Red Hulk IS the logical choice since he can control his rage , unlike our classic Hulk.

But I still love our Classic Green Hulk more....call me nostalgic ,please :)

Posted by Vance Astro
@ReVamp said:

What does it matter? Galactus could be a founding member, wouldn't make him fit. And technically, Cap was "promoted" to "founding member" (to have voting power and whatnot). Don't know how that makes sense, but its Marvel logic, whatcha gon' do.

But Galactus wasn't a founding member.Hulk was.I don't understand you're reasoning for him not fitting on the team....
Moderator
Posted by ReVamp

@Vance Astro said:

@ReVamp said:

What does it matter? Galactus could be a founding member, wouldn't make him fit. And technically, Cap was "promoted" to "founding member" (to have voting power and whatnot). Don't know how that makes sense, but its Marvel logic, whatcha gon' do.

But Galactus wasn't a founding member.Hulk was.I don't understand you're reasoning for him not fitting on the team....

I haven't explained why Hulk doesn't fit at all, I just said that the fact he was a founding member isn't relevant.

Posted by SupremeHyperion

I am a huge Red Hulk fan and I am glad to see him with the avengers. he is one of the most powerful and knowledgeable when it comes to battle situations. He is damn near the perfect weapon.

Posted by Cafeterialoca

I'm wondering what will happen to the Avengers once the assimilate all the popular characters...

Posted by magnuskhan

Rulk is so better.

Posted by Walker696

@Illuminatus: since when has Hank been considered a street level hero (Giant man, creating Ultron, the Infinity Mansion, leading his own Avengers, and putting Avengers Academy together), not to mention he was a founding member of the original Avengers, come on give him way more credit then that. Now with Black Panther and Matt, these are two guys that have been going up against people more powerful then them most of their careers and are still around to talk about it. Yea I don't see them soloing somebody like Magneto or Namor but at the same time they can provide distractions and/or help take out other people (and no I'm not one of there fan boys I've read all of 3 BP comics and I hate Daredevil with a passion) but I'm just being honest. You can't look at powers to judge a fight because if you do then you have to think about how many people actually fall into street level range(Cap, Wolverine, Spider-man, Luke Cage, Hawkeye, Black Widow and so on) yet they are in the midst of these fights. I will be the first to admit (I've even put it on a few AvsX post) the fights seem one sided in the X-men's favor but how many times have we seen fights like these with an overpowered team being beaten by a lower class team. Heck that mostly what comics are about

O and as for the original post, all I will ask is who would you rather have on your team, a geek with anger issues or a trained military officer?????? nuff said

Posted by Cakeman3000

I don't understand why everyone keeps talking about Banner as if it were easy to control his anger. It's not like Banner decides he wants to turn into a giant creature and smash. Of course Red Hulk is better for a team, but since when did the Hulk have to be a team player. He's the flipping Hulk for crying out loud.

Posted by Deadcool

@Vance Astro said:

For what...writing very few things that are actually good in the last 3-4 years?

Maybe he is not that good, but he is not a bad writer, and talking about Bendis here in the Vive is just throwing crap at him as much as they can, I find him enjoyable, and some people think that he is actually good, he is not a high tier like Alan Moore, but he never fails to entertain me.

Posted by The Impersonator

If Red Hulk is a valuable team member, then why Hulk is still on the Avengers team? =P =P =P

Online
Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus

Rulk is the better gamma-infused superhuman for the job of being an Avenger for the simple reason that he is FAR more of a strategist and tactician than Bruce was in Hulk form. For obvious reason since he's a career military man, it gives his mind the advantage of thinking like he is on the battlefield, anticipating what moves to make and what move the adversary would make. The flip side of this unfortunately is just simple "Hulk smash" which Bruce brought to the table and which unfortunately just didn't work for the team as a whole. Rulk as an Avenger all the way.

Edited by loganchild

red hulk must die hulk is strongest one there is red hulk must die hulk is strongest one there is red hulk must die hulk is strongest one there is

Posted by loganchild

@The Impersonator: because the green scar rules and rulk must die mannn i hate him

Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude

Honestly, even if he was just around for the first issue, Hulk IS a founding member of the Avengers and should at LEAST get some respect for that. Hell the Avengers wouldn't even exist if not for him!!

Posted by Vance Astro
@Deadcool said:

@Vance Astro said:

For what...writing very few things that are actually good in the last 3-4 years?

Maybe he is not that good, but he is not a bad writer, and talking about Bendis here in the Vive is just throwing crap at him as much as they can, I find him enjoyable, and some people think that he is actually good, he is not a high tier like Alan Moore, but he never fails to entertain me.

You're right, he's NOT a bad writer which is why it's even more disappointing that he's been writing underpar for several years now.I understand where you are coming from as far as people "throwing crap at him" because it's obvious many people are just on the bandwagon and don't really know what he's done.Bendis has only himself to blame for this though.Some of his issues are omega level bad.
Moderator
Posted by greeneagle

@Illuminatus: From your post it seems like you haven't read any of the issues that have come out so far or other titles that crossover with this event. Thor,Ms Marvel and war machine are part of the Team that in space to intercept the phoenix. Reed is doing his egg head thing to figure out a way to deal with the phoenix. A better question is why aren't hank and T'Challa helping him. Strange is on Utopia and as of issue to of AvX, fighting Majik. I don't want to spoil it for anyone but issue is well written and made me re-examine my view of the X-Men under Scott.

Posted by jaredbright

Red Hulk has military and leadership experience. Banner's a guy who got slapped by women. :)

Posted by War Killer

I personally like Red Hulk as a villain, while some characters like Magneto are cool to see trying to "play hero". Characters like Doctor Doom and Red Hulk need to stay villains to give the heroes someone worth fighting. Plus, whether or not Ross is a better team player than Banner is as Hulk, the fact that Hulk isn't is what makes him interesting to see him interact with the rest of the team.

Posted by Vance Astro
@War Killer said:
I personally like Red Hulk as a villain, while some characters like Magneto are cool to see trying to "play hero". Characters like Doctor Doom and Red Hulk need to stay villains to give the heroes someone worth fighting. Plus, whether or not Ross is a better team player than Banner is as Hulk, the fact that Hulk isn't is what makes him interesting to see him interact with the rest of the team.
I never saw him as a villain though.He IS more like Magneto in the sense that he was kind of forced into a villain role.He's not actually "evil".
Moderator
Posted by Vance Astro
@ReVamp said:

I haven't explained why Hulk doesn't fit at all

Are you going to?
Moderator
Posted by War Killer
@Vance Astro said:
@War Killer said:
I personally like Red Hulk as a villain, while some characters like Magneto are cool to see trying to "play hero". Characters like Doctor Doom and Red Hulk need to stay villains to give the heroes someone worth fighting. Plus, whether or not Ross is a better team player than Banner is as Hulk, the fact that Hulk isn't is what makes him interesting to see him interact with the rest of the team.
I never saw him as a villain though.He IS more like Magneto in the sense that he was kind of forced into a villain role.He's not actually "evil".
True, but I just don't see the point in having two Hulk's and not have one of them be the "evil Hulk". Ross has been trying to put the Hulk down for years, he made himself an enemy of the Hulk and he has been seen as such in every media that Ross has appeared in. Becoming Red Hulk was his way of fighting fire with fire and giving him the edge he needs to finally bring the Hulk down. I've never supported the idea of Red Hulk joining the Avengers and becoming a "good guy" because Marvel has plenty of heroes, and many of their top villains like Magneto and Doctor Doom have begun working with their sworn enemies (though I'm not sure what Doom is up to lately, so I may be wrong about that point). But I just feel that we already have a "good" Hulk in Banner, why do we need two?
Posted by Vance Astro
@War Killer said:
True, but I just don't see the point in having two Hulk's and not have one of them be the "evil Hulk". Ross has been trying to put the Hulk down for years, he made himself an enemy of the Hulk and he has been seen as such in every media that Ross has appeared in. Becoming Red Hulk was his way of fighting fire with fire and giving him the edge he needs to finally bring the Hulk down. I've never supported the idea of Red Hulk joining the Avengers and becoming a "good guy" because Marvel has plenty of heroes, and many of their top villains like Magneto and Doctor Doom have begun working with their sworn enemies (though I'm not sure what Doom is up to lately, so I may be wrong about that point). But I just feel that we already have a "good" Hulk in Banner, why do we need two?
Well isn't Banner stuck on an island of Hulks without being able to Hulk out? Technically that would mean there is only one good Hulk right now unless you count Lyra and She-Hulk.Isn't Skarr on the Dark Avengers? (I'm behind) I understand what you're saying but I don't see Marvel having Ross active if Banner is going to come back and be an Avenger, know what I mean? It's just like how they'd never put War Machine and Iron Man on the same Avengers team.I didn't support Red Hulk being an Avenger at first.I said it didn't make sense and I hated it but I think it makes for an interesting story to take a character that was basically a villain before and make them a valid member of the Avengers.
Moderator
Posted by Gregomasta

@OmegaTheDestroyer said:

am I the only one that wishes Ross kept his mustache in Hulk form?

Nope, you're not the only one who wishes that.

Posted by FirestormElemental

I disagree. While red hulk is smarter than the original, I never want the hulk to be smart. i want him to kick ass.

Posted by Dex_Starr

I gotta agree, that Rulk is better than Hulk

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