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Off My Mind: When Your Favorite Comic Character Gets "Ruined"

Comic book fans can be passionate over characters they love and will get vocal when big changes are made.

Comic books are filled with many great characters. It's these characters that we grow to love that keeps us coming back month after month. We grow an attachment to them and want to see the latest adventures and battles they will get into.

With many characters having existed for decades, every once in a while changes are made to the character. It can be a natural evolution as not everyone wants the same old stories over and over again. This prevents the characters from becoming stale and gives the stories a sense of being fresh.

Was this Batman or an excuse for more action figures?
Was this Batman or an excuse for more action figures?

Once in a while characters go through major transformations. A publisher or creator may decide to shake things up and big adjustments are made to the groundwork that makes the character who they are. This sometimes results in excitement but more often, comic fans become angry and threaten to never read comics again. What can comic fans do when their favorite characters are changed in drastic ways?

== TEASER ==
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Recently we've been hearing rumblings over the changes coming for Spider-Man. The fifty year series, THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN is coming to an end with issue #700. Naturally it will be replaced by a new series, SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN, but writer, Dan Slott, has already started the groundwork in giving us a new Spider-Man unlike the one we're used to.

With the release of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #698, we may have been given a glimpse of what we can expect in the new series. A confrontation between Spider-Man and Doc Ock promises huge changes. With the issue, comments such as "Marvel has ruined my childhood" have appeared. Is this the end of Spider-Man as we know him?

Comic book logic says, "No."

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Captain America quits and becomes
Captain America quits and becomes "The Captain"

Many times, there is an attempt to completely redefine a character. In the 90s, Superman's powers and looks were completely changed. Superman gained electrically powers no longer sported the familiar red, blue and yellow costume. He didn't even have a cape. I cannot imagine hardcore Superman fans casually accepting this change. We did see Superman split into a blue and red version before returning back to his normal appearance and power levels.

Killing off a character is another way 'big changes' can be made.' When characters such as Batman, Captain America or Superman have been killed off in epic stories, they always 'got better.' Writers can always come up with a way to resurrect the characters or have had a plan from the beginning to allow the characters to cheat death. When it comes to comic book deaths, most readers realize it's only a after of time until the character makes their comeback.

Sometimes characters quit or leave their costumed identity behind. Characters such as Captain America, Wonder Woman, Batman, Spider-Man, Thor, Iron Man and others have all given up their superhero identities for one reason or another. In most cases, they temporarily took on another identity but, as excepted, they returned to their familiar costumes after a period of time.

What it all comes down to is when characters go through humongous changes, things usually return to the status quo after some time.

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Comic fans have a right to be upset but they have to try to have some faith in the creators and publishers. When Dan Slott apparently killed off one of my favorite villains, the Hobgoblin, I was not happy but was enthralled in the story and wanted to see where it would go. A small part of me refused to believe the character could so easily be killed (even if he was decapitated) and after a brief period, my guy was proven correct as the original returned with a vengeance.

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The return 'normal' also reflects on the status of the character in the industry. Spider-Man has grown extra arms, changed costumes, been married and even publicly revealed his identity. All of these events were resolved and Spidey ended up pretty much the same as before. With SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN, there's no telling what the full changes are we'll be seeing or how long they will last but it just makes sense that Peter Parker will manage to overcome his battle and everything will return to what it was.

We can't have the same old stories all the time. Every once in a while, a well executed shake up can result in exciting stories. Comic fans just have to be patient (although Barry Allen fans had to wait twenty-three years for his return from the dead). If something happens to your favorite character, chances are, someday somehow, it will all get better.

The industry knows what works and what doesn't. They may wish to take a risk once in a while and that's a good thing. They are capable of learning from mistakes. We just have to have faith and patience if the decision is made to try to shake things up with our favorite characters. Chances are it will pay off with the result being an interesting story. If not...then we always have our back issues and trade paperbacks to curl up to as we cry ourselves to sleep.

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benzino_x

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@G-Man:

True.

I have to admit I was pleased seeing Peter and MJ getting together again and realising that it was actually Dock Ock who made a move, made me feel uncomfortable :D

So far Dan Slott killed it big time on Spidey, so I'm not to worried. Rather curious.

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Ironhawk22

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@sethysquare said:

@arnoldoaad said:

this is an interesting point, but what happen when the ruination of the character is based on the fact that its Returning to a previous Status Quo?

or the return of Barbara Gordon from Oracle to batgirl or the changes on characters like Green Arrow who first gets married, then he loses everything and then he gets back to 0 in the reboot

Which has been bad. Batgirl has never gotten more boring. Stephanie awesome Brown didn't get what she deserves and sadly is in limbo hell

Fixed:D

No but on a more serious note...I'd honestly like to know what is it you dislike about Stephanie? Did you even read her series? I've recently begun collecting it, and have really been enjoying it. She's a breath of fresh air. Extremely funny, angst free, and cheerful. Qualities you don't usually find in comics these days.

You're entitled to like Barbara as Batgirl, that's great. I didn't find the series interesting, and would much rather have the version of Barbara that's in Smallville, YJ, or even BTAS as Batgirl(not going to bring Oracle into this). Although the version in Smallville is actually just Stephanie wearing a wig, and using a different name to be honest. Everyone has their own opinion on things. Which is why I'd like to hear what is it about Stephanie that you hate so much(have you not read her Batgirl series, only read her as Spoiler)? Sadly there is one thing you said that is correct. Steph as well as poor Cassandra will never see the light of day, at least under Didio's regime.

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SeanNOLA

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Edited By SeanNOLA

I actually liked the whole period when Steve Rogers became The Captain. I've always thought that John Walker was a fascinating character, and I think having that role-switch storyline last so long, it really highlighted what makes Captain America special. To this day, I think US Agent is one of the most interestingly underutilized characters in Cap's roster, especially since they spent so much time and energy fleshing him out as a multi-faceted new character in the 80s, and he's usually only dragged out as a bumbling conservative stereotype nowadays.

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urstenky

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Edited By urstenky

Avengers. The Avengers were ruined when Bendis took over. The team dynamic and sense of style and organization that made the Avengers unique, was destroyed! I don't think Marvel will ever go back to the days of Michelinie, Perez, Shooter, Conway, and Byrne. We as fans can always hope but the days of Marvel selling a couple of hundred thousand copies of Avengers is over. Marvel is nowadays satisfied with a few thousand copies being sold each month. Marvel should take a lesson from what DC is now doing in their books. The New 52 books have added the best art teams, great writers, and they are producing great stories and characters! Marvel has at best on most books, mediocre art and writing teams. Look at the Justice League. The team has been modernized but is back to being the characters that made the team great! One example from the JLA: The Flash is Barry Allen again and that is just awesome! One example of Marvel Now: Carol Danvers is Captain Marvel and that is most definitely not awesome! Carol Danvers is Ms. Marvel, Ms. Marvel is Carol Danvers! Carol Danvers is no longer a good or interesting character. Please Marvel, put Carol back as Ms. Marvel and bring Mar-Vell back as Captain Marvel (or at least put a new character in the Captain Marvel costume). For a long time a really liked Joe Quesada and I really disliked Dan Dido. But then Marvel put Alex Alonso in charge (somewhat). Quesada is still silently in charge at Marvel and Alonzo is taking his marching orders from him but somewhat slightly changing the orders. This system and the fact that over the last few years Marvel has quit listening to its fans, this is what is making Marvel into what it is: a second rate company! Alonzo was put into his position before Disney took over, so I think Disney has had little to do with what we are seeing now. I now like Dan Dido; he made a smart decision a few years back and started listening to the fans! With this and DC making good decisions, I think DC is going to be on top of the comic market for a long time! Please Marvel, listen to the fans: make the Avengers the Avengers again, make the X-Men the X-Men again! Over 40 years of greatness has been replaced by 10 years of mediocrity! Art and writing teams that are mediocre at best and way too many team books between the Avengers and the X-Men! It shouldn't be that way!

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sethysquare

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@Ironhawk22: I hate that every single one of the new prodigy had to be blonde hair and blue eyes. I hate that she had such an irritating backstory. I also hate that she took away the mantle of my favourite batgirl.

Theres just no way I'll accept Stephanie Brown. I hope she doesnt end up in a title like TT or BOP which I'll be forced to drop Cass Cain is a totally different matter.

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Sharkbite

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Vampire Jubilee and I sometimes discuss the changes that we haven't been able to fully climb on board with, but she reminds me of a few that I have liked and assures me that, if it works it will stick, and if it doesn't then it will fade away. Of recent years, my favorite change to an old predictable character came in the way of Cyclops. I hated Cyclops through the 80s and 90s. He was the boy scout, the brown-noser, the one dimensional character with little personality. Those were the days when everybody except for Jean Grey was rooting for Wolverine. And yet, while Wolverine became more popular and as result was becoming more tame, Cyclops quietly was kept in the background being put through a punishing emotional grinder of hardships. Many of us actually cheered his suffering because we didn't like the guy, but he tucked his chin down and powered through, and next thing we knew, he was suddenly the guy making the hard decisions. He was a real leader, the not just a cardboard cut-out. When he stood up to the United States and declared Utopia to be an independant nation, when Magneto bowed to Cyclops and pledged loyalty, jaws dropped. This wasn't the pansy we hated; this guy was a stud. Some changes are good. Some changes are bad. Most changes are probably bad. But that's why they go away so fast; the bad ones rarely stick around.

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satyrgod

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Scott and Emma. I was okay with it when it was just sex or with the implication that she was manipulating him but the whole madly in love thing was weak, then it just fizzled. What, no controversy, just a fundementle difference of ideologies? And it took how long for that pair of geniuses to figure that out?

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Ironhawk22

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@sethysquare said:

@Ironhawk22: I hate that every single one of the new prodigy had to be blonde hair and blue eyes. I hate that she had such an irritating backstory. I also hate that she took away the mantle of my favourite batgirl.

Theres just no way I'll accept Stephanie Brown. I hope she doesnt end up in a title like TT or BOP which I'll be forced to drop Cass Cain is a totally different matter.

Stephanie didn't become Batgirl till 2010, Barbara was paralyzed in the Killing Joke which was in the late 80's. Stephanie didn't take away the mantle from Barbara(you're favorite Batgirl). Not about Barbara but I too disliked the idea of Stephanie as Batgirl, because Cassie is my favorite Batgirl. However now that I'm reading her series I have a newly found appreciation for Stephanie.

You'd really drop a book just because a character you never gave a chance and have never read about appears in it??

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sethysquare

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@Ironhawk22 said:

@sethysquare said:

@Ironhawk22: I hate that every single one of the new prodigy had to be blonde hair and blue eyes. I hate that she had such an irritating backstory. I also hate that she took away the mantle of my favourite batgirl.

Theres just no way I'll accept Stephanie Brown. I hope she doesnt end up in a title like TT or BOP which I'll be forced to drop Cass Cain is a totally different matter.

Stephanie didn't become Batgirl till 2010, Barbara was paralyzed in the Killing Joke which was in the late 80's. Stephanie didn't take away the mantle from Barbara(you're favorite Batgirl). Not about Barbara but I too disliked the idea of Stephanie as Batgirl, because Cassie is my favorite Batgirl. However now that I'm reading her series I have a newly found appreciation for Stephanie.

You'd really drop a book just because a character you never gave a chance and have never read about appears in it??

Cass would be my favourite character of the 3, but Babs is my favourite batgirl.

And yes, I'll welcome Cass back with arms wide open, but I detest the thought of Stephanie joining one of my favourite books. If she joins Batgirl as a sidekick to Babs, I'll have no choice but to buy it. But should she join a team book, I'll vote with my money and drop the book. I've read a few issues of Stephanie Brown as Batgirl and I didn't like it. I gave it a chance and it didn't work out. I guess I didn't like her since she was spoiler and the dislike just got carried over. Not to mention when a blonde hair, blue eyes white girl took the mantle from the only asian girl in the bat family, I was not happy, at all. I also never liked her relationship with Tim, maybe because I'm a much bigger fan of Timcass and the whole stephanie flirting with tim just makes me sick in the stomach. I used to be a Koncass until Konrose came along.

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It took 86 years for the Red Sox to win the series. The Cubs last won it in 1908. Comparatively, waiting 23 years for Barry Allen to return as the Flash does not feel like such a long time. Of course, if I was a huge fan of the character (which I'm not) then I would probably have felt outraged about it and seethed on many a comic book forum.

Comic book readers tend to be passionate people who get easily frustrated when their favorite characters are benched or their origins retconned or they are sacrificed to the poor penmanship of a particular writer. I think we all know on some level that the poor treatment of a character (*cough* Catwoman *cough*) will eventually get better. It's the waiting game that gets old after a while.

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nappystr8

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I rather liked Superman Red and Blue...

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Markus_Langbourn

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So it's OK that writers desecrate characters and continuity, while showing total contempt for fans, just as long things will hopefully go back to normal in 10 years?  
 
Yeah, that makes sense. 

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Ironhawk22

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@BCreatures16 said:

It took 86 years for the Red Sox to win the series. The Cubs last won it in 1908. Comparatively, waiting 23 years for Barry Allen to return as the Flash does not feel like such a long time. Of course, if I was a huge fan of the character (which I'm not) then I would probably have felt outraged about it and seethed on many a comic book forum.

Comic book readers tend to be passionate people who get easily frustrated when their favorite characters are benched or their origins retconned or they are sacrificed to the poor penmanship of a particular writer. I think we all know on some level that the poor treatment of a character (*cough* Catwoman *cough*) will eventually get better. It's the waiting game that gets old after a while.

You summed it up very well.

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Ironhawk22

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Edited By Ironhawk22

@sethysquare said:

@Ironhawk22 said:

@sethysquare said:

@Ironhawk22: I hate that every single one of the new prodigy had to be blonde hair and blue eyes. I hate that she had such an irritating backstory. I also hate that she took away the mantle of my favourite batgirl.

Theres just no way I'll accept Stephanie Brown. I hope she doesnt end up in a title like TT or BOP which I'll be forced to drop Cass Cain is a totally different matter.

Stephanie didn't become Batgirl till 2010, Barbara was paralyzed in the Killing Joke which was in the late 80's. Stephanie didn't take away the mantle from Barbara(you're favorite Batgirl). Not about Barbara but I too disliked the idea of Stephanie as Batgirl, because Cassie is my favorite Batgirl. However now that I'm reading her series I have a newly found appreciation for Stephanie.

You'd really drop a book just because a character you never gave a chance and have never read about appears in it??

Cass would be my favourite character of the 3, but Babs is my favourite batgirl.

And yes, I'll welcome Cass back with arms wide open, but I detest the thought of Stephanie joining one of my favourite books. If she joins Batgirl as a sidekick to Babs, I'll have no choice but to buy it. But should she join a team book, I'll vote with my money and drop the book. I've read a few issues of Stephanie Brown as Batgirl and I didn't like it. I gave it a chance and it didn't work out. I guess I didn't like her since she was spoiler and the dislike just got carried over. Not to mention when a blonde hair, blue eyes white girl took the mantle from the only asian girl in the bat family, I was not happy, at all. I also never liked her relationship with Tim, maybe because I'm a much bigger fan of Timcass and the whole stephanie flirting with tim just makes me sick in the stomach. I used to be a Koncass until Konrose came along.

I too disliked Stephanie at first and didn't read the series because of Cass getting benched. However after starting the series(I've been reading the Lesson, I heard the first few issues were just okay) I like I said before have grown to really like the character. Batgirl #17 was the most fun I've had reading a comic in a while.

I really don't like the idea of Tim/Cass at all. Cassie and Tim(before the reboot) are two of my favorite characters, but in my eyes their friendship is just a brother sister one. Superboy and Cassandra however, is an idea I like. I don't know how I feel about Tim and Stephanie though. I feel that before the reboot sort of went their separate ways. Plus I really liked Lynx.

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MajinBlackheart

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Edited By MajinBlackheart  Moderator

As comic readers, we are all used to change, and in general we accept it.

But not all change is good. Matt Fraction ruined the Silver Surfer for nothing. Bendis is currently destroying what's left of Marvels cosmic characters. As someone said, these aren't A list characters. They will be stuck this way for a long time.

Change is fine. Change while ignoring continuity isn't. There is a difference.

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RayeGunn

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@SiycoBat said:

Honestly, I think that when it comes to comicbook characters, changes and tweets are necessary in order for the character to continue to survive time and for those certain characters that are not as old as the icons we know, not get thrown in the trash because the character was too problematic to fix.

Take Harley Quinn, for example.

Yeah, her costume was fine and her personality was A-OK and her origin was great. However, the character's co-dependency, the glamorization and romanticization of the truly brutal and cold bond between Joker and Harley, and the character's lack of development was taking a toll on the character.

While most hardcore fans of the character say that there was nothing wrong with the core of her character, I'd have to say otherwise. While they say the abuse is okay because Harley likes it and that there was plenty of development of Harley with the Joker, here's the problem. Harley's character can be very triggering for those that have experienced DV in their lives and the almost constant cycle of Harley happily going back to her "abuser" as the resolution of the character sends the wrong message to those young fans of hers or those that don't get how DV or abuse works. It also sends the message that she is truly nothing without the Joker and that she only exists to be an extension of him.

I don't know about you but with a character like her, I'd want someone to tackle those problems of the character and not be afraid to piss off the fanbase that seems totally intolerant to any change and seem almost blind to the problems that character has.

That's my two cents concerning big changes or tweets to a comicbook character.

That's not a change in the same sense as the article was talking about, though. That's character development, there is a difference. Harley should absolutely get away from the Joker, he's abusive, I agree that it sends a bad message for her to keep running back to him, and it's good that she is finally moving in that direction. But because that part of the change to her is based on things that have happened to her in the past and is building on that, it's not quite the same as some of the other characters DC rebooted and they got whole new personalities, powers, costumes etc. with no buildup, just 'here's the new X!' and we're ticked because we liked them better before. Or what Marvel is doing with Spider-Man where it's presented as a shock twist (but to be fair, I am pretty sure that was always intended to be temporary, so I don't have much of a problem there since I'm fairly certain it will be resolved and Peter will be back)

(and you mean 'tweaks')

Anyway. to the article as a whole, I know what it says is true, and that characters tend to return to their most iconic status with time, but it's less true of B listers and below, where the changes are more often permanent... And even with A list characters there are exceptions, where the change was actually liked by the fanbase. fixed a long standing problem or whatever, and it sticks around. I mean, Batman's iconic status isn't how he was originally presented, his iconic version incorporates some changes that fans liked. the Batcave, Alfred, his aversion to guns are all things that came later, but we can now not picture him without. But even if the change is unpopular and they do change back, it doesn't make the period where the characters aren't how you like them any more fun to read. Also, it may saddle them with baggage later, since it may take some serious retcons and improbable situations to get them back the way they were.

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sethysquare

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@Ironhawk22 said:

@sethysquare said:

@Ironhawk22 said:

@sethysquare said:

@Ironhawk22: I hate that every single one of the new prodigy had to be blonde hair and blue eyes. I hate that she had such an irritating backstory. I also hate that she took away the mantle of my favourite batgirl.

Theres just no way I'll accept Stephanie Brown. I hope she doesnt end up in a title like TT or BOP which I'll be forced to drop Cass Cain is a totally different matter.

Stephanie didn't become Batgirl till 2010, Barbara was paralyzed in the Killing Joke which was in the late 80's. Stephanie didn't take away the mantle from Barbara(you're favorite Batgirl). Not about Barbara but I too disliked the idea of Stephanie as Batgirl, because Cassie is my favorite Batgirl. However now that I'm reading her series I have a newly found appreciation for Stephanie.

You'd really drop a book just because a character you never gave a chance and have never read about appears in it??

Cass would be my favourite character of the 3, but Babs is my favourite batgirl.

And yes, I'll welcome Cass back with arms wide open, but I detest the thought of Stephanie joining one of my favourite books. If she joins Batgirl as a sidekick to Babs, I'll have no choice but to buy it. But should she join a team book, I'll vote with my money and drop the book. I've read a few issues of Stephanie Brown as Batgirl and I didn't like it. I gave it a chance and it didn't work out. I guess I didn't like her since she was spoiler and the dislike just got carried over. Not to mention when a blonde hair, blue eyes white girl took the mantle from the only asian girl in the bat family, I was not happy, at all. I also never liked her relationship with Tim, maybe because I'm a much bigger fan of Timcass and the whole stephanie flirting with tim just makes me sick in the stomach. I used to be a Koncass until Konrose came along.

I too disliked Stephanie at first and didn't read the series because of Cass getting benched. However after starting the series(I've been reading the Lesson, I heard the first few issues were just okay) I like I said before have grown to really like the character. Batgirl #17 was the most fun I've had reading a comic in a while.

I really don't like the idea of Tim/Cass at all. Cassie and Tim(before the reboot) are two of my favorite characters, but in my eyes their friendship is just a brother sister one. Superboy and Cassandra however, is an idea I like. I don't know how I feel about Tim and Stephanie though. I feel that before the reboot sort of went their separate ways. Plus I really liked Lynx.

Well, then I guess in time to come you'll start to like Barbara Gordon. I'm still very unwilling to give Stephanie any chance. I sure as hell wouldn't spend 20 bucks to buy her trade paperback. I guess if she does come back, I'll wait for reviews to come in before deciding if I should read it.

I did like KonCass but Cassie got way too spineless after a while. I prefer the new Cassie's sassy-ness, I do wish she would go back to Kon someday, but until then, I'll like to see some Rose/Kon going on.

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Rabbitearsblog

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@jloneblackheart said:
As comic readers, we are all used to change, and in general we accept it. But not all change is good. Matt Fraction ruined the Silver Surfer for nothing. Bendis is currently destroying what's left of Marvels cosmic characters. As someone said, these aren't A list characters. They will be stuck this way for a long time. Change is fine. Change while ignoring continuity isn't. There is a difference.
I definitely agree with this.  There's nothing wrong with change, it just comes down to how it is set up in the stories.  If a character is changed because of character development that relates to the continuity, then that's great.  But if a character is changed and there is no evidence whatsoever about the character's experiences with a situation in the past that affects them, then it could turn out really bad.
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deactivated-5a8afb01c5e75

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I'm all for a change that makes sense within a story context, that's character evolution and the entire point of a good ongoing story. It's all this retcon business that's ridiculous and there is no status quo to go back to, I think the problem is people complaining about changes and then supporting the books anyways, that doesn't help anybody.

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SylentEcho

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@ArtisticNeedham: Bruce wasn't Batman for about 4 months only. It was about the same with Superman. In those days people had 4 Superman titles and 4 Batman titles a month all pertaining to the same story and continuity. What an exciting time for comic book fans. I used to read the letters column all the time to see what other fans thought and most of the hated AzBats (I loved him) and a lot of people were sad that Supes died with most letters saying, "How could you?!" (I did most of my reading of these arcs in the late 90's. I was just 5 years old when Supes really died).

Fans complaining like this kind of irritated me though. I used to welcome the change. When Superman became Superman Blue and then Red (I got to know about it through the papers), I was really excited to see the changes. I bought all the issues because although I was just 10 years old at the time, I knew things would go back to normal. Just like his hair went back to normal. Remember the Super-Mullet? :D

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What comes to mind for me with is Linkara and his inability to ever get off his One More Day soapbox.