Off My Mind: Vertigo's Death At DC, What Will This Mean?

hmm thats interesting. Maybe its just a cameo to pull more readers into vertigo?

I wouldn't have any problem at all with this, were Gaiman actually writing it. I shudder at the idea of lesser writers penning stories with these characters. It just serves to diminish them.  It's a real shame that Swamp Thing is being returned to the larger DC Universe proper. A lot of the themes regarding that character, that could only be explored in a Vertigo title, will now go untouched. That's the great thing about the Vertigo imprint. It allowed for much more exploratory storytelling, without having to deal with all the self imposed limits of the regular DC line. Personally, I'd rather see them take the DC line over to Vertigo, rather than take the Vertigo line over to DC.

I love it the Vertigo and DC line has been nonsensical and has little purpose. In the past few years the Vertigo imprint has become more about the creator owned titles than revamping DC characters I also think many characters had no place going so Vertigo, the events seemed to be getting less clever and more of Vertigo writers asking "How much more can we mess these characters lives up." 
  
Half the DC characters in the Vertigo imprint are not used. 
Tim Hunter was abandoned.
Swamp Thing  has not had anything important since Alan Moore.
Shade The Changing Man  was only known for Peter Milligan. 
 

John Constantine once someone on everyone's list is now a irrelevant character only hardcore fans still like.
 
Characters prominent in the eighties and nineties but have not drawn readers attention in a long time. Nothing notable has been done either most of the time the characters are remembered for early years than recent. 
 
 And let's remember when Alan Moore first did Swamp Thing that it took place fully in the DCU and was only made an imprint because they felt that it did not fit superhero comics but has anyone seensuperherocomics recently? Sex and death is not taboo in superhero comics anymore.
 
 But we should remember that this is a rumor according to Paul Cornell he sought permission from Neil Gaiman himself and has said he is unsure what DC's plans are the only source where this news came from was Bleeding Cool and Rich Johnston is not the most reliable man on the internet he has been saying for a yearthat Geoff Johnsand Jim Lee would make a second Justice League book and Grant Morison would writeno make a mini no make a graphic novel of Wonder Woman both rumors that have been going on for more than a year so we should be skeptical.(Watch all this get announced at San Diego in two weeks and I am wrong.) 

" @johnny spam: John Constantine has been used consistently actually and in fact Shade the Changing Man is in his title right now "

I'd give it a shot. Unlike people who say that this shouldn't happen, but that's just me.

This isn't the first time a Vertigo charactger's appearred in the DCU.
Aslo there've always been soem character with connections to the DCU but with mature titles in the Vertigo imprint.
 
I doubt we'll se anything too crazy like Jesse Custer meeting Batman or Spider Jerusalem teaming up with Terry McGuinness.

" @johnny spam said:

" @aztek the lost: @aztek the lost said:

" @johnny spam: John Constantine has been used consistently actually and in fact Shade the Changing Man is in his title right now "

But no one is paying attention to the character anymore that Shade bit is all I can think of and it's Peter Milligan using him and the character of Constantine is in an eternal cycle that won't end or move on. How many girlfriends of his have died and how many times has he been depressed then got it together only for the next writer to do the same thing? "

so basically you think that Vertigo's not using the characters the way you want them to be used, but really what would DC do with any of them...it's not like they don't have enough character's already and they certainly let quite a few fall into comic book limbo  the best stories that can be told about those characters you listed are better off at Vertigo...what would DC do with them, really? retcon their whole history and then leave them as a background character most likely "

I'm quite happy about it. As long as the characters retain their original spirit, I can't see the big deal. You can still use them in Vertigo. Action Comics is one of DC's biggest titles, so this is really an opportunity for the character to be seen by a much wider audience than she ever would in a Vertigo comic and may persuade people to check out some of those books.

" @johnny spam: I realize they were taken from the DCU but nobody ever gave the new titles a chance so it's not that they weren't good but over the past twenty years people's interest in those kind of characters faded...I mean John Constantine is flourishing right now under Milligan and he's had plenty of good writers since Ennis...but you're right that Vertigo is mostly creator-owned works now but what about Madame Xanadu and House of Mystery? These are two of my favorite (well okay, they're pretty much all my favorite) titles that Vertigo is putting out right now and they're DCU. I'm sure you think the current Doom Patrol is better then anything Vertigo would have had if the team stayed in their clutches but I don't. The only thing DC has over Vertigo is more buyers but that doesn't make the stories better quality and personally I don't see what's wrong with a character's story being wrapped up. Nobody's ever continued Moore's Watchmen and most people seem to think that's a terrible idea so why does anyone need to continue Gaiman's Sandman? "  

I have to cut this short (because I need to go to work) but I as a big fan of many of those character's think it better they not reach Deadpool fame...true I think Shade, the Changing Man should have extended beyond #70 and feel Books of Magick: Life During Wartime could have become a much more interesting Tim were it allowed to expand beyond 15 issues and Swamp Thing definitely was good enough to last beyond #29 but it's not like DC doesn't cancel their comics too and who's to say it's not simply interest in the character's from the mass population that is gone. It's not the 90's...edgy isn't cool anymore...I don't believe sales is a sign of a character's success. "

Not keen on the idea of Death showing up in Action Comics but it could work. This is comics after all! And in a round-a-bout way it makes sense that Death shows up in the DCU because she is a DC owned character [creative control rests with Neil Gaiman].    
 
Should the characters of each imprint remain separate? No. It doesn't really make sense given how Vertigo came about. Besides, if the Vertigo imprint is ever folded up all those characters are coming right back into the DCU.

I guess how Death is used will make me decide if the idea is good or bad. Right now I am firmly in the camp of, if the story makes sense use the character. Swamp Thing, Shade, Constantine could appear in any DC book and I wouldnt have a problem with it.

" Truly odd. I dont mind seeing Swamp Thing mix it up in the DCU, but Death dont seem right to me. Interesting concept I guess. "

" @longbowhunter said:

" Truly odd. I dont mind seeing Swamp Thing mix it up in the DCU, but Death dont seem right to me. Interesting concept I guess. "

Actually, during the first numbers, The Sandman was deeply intertwined with the DCU. Many heroes made cameos. "

I feel I should bring up the latest Vertigo character DC took back...Human Target...they did it purely for sales because of that show...trashed the guy so he's not even likable and now they're probably just going to throw him back into limbo...DC shouldn't be mucking about with a good thing they've got going

" @Joey Ravn said:

" @longbowhunter said:

" Truly odd. I dont mind seeing Swamp Thing mix it up in the DCU, but Death dont seem right to me. Interesting concept I guess. "

Actually, during the first numbers, The Sandman was deeply intertwined with the DCU. Many heroes made cameos. "

for the first seven issues of the series, but after #8 (her first appearance) the series took a turn and never really went back to featuring DC superheroes and supervillains "

" @Jack the Ripper:  @Jack the Ripper said:

" @Joey Ravn said:

" @longbowhunter said:

" Truly odd. I dont mind seeing Swamp Thing mix it up in the DCU, but Death dont seem right to me. Interesting concept I guess. "

Actually, during the first numbers, The Sandman was deeply intertwined with the DCU. Many heroes made cameos. "

for the first seven issues of the series, but after #8 (her first appearance) the series took a turn and never really went back to featuring DC superheroes and supervillains "

Batman, Superman and Martian Manhunter did show up at Morpheus' funeral.  "

Vertigo is DC, this doesn't even feel like a stretch to me, i didn't even bat an eye. Milestone's past merging characters in with DC was stranger than this. i still roll my eyebrows confused at Static Shock going hard in with Young Justice... ERRR... i mean Teen Titans. really, just call me when Wild C.A.T.S. loses a couple members to the justice league and we can talk about complicated storyline crossovers and insane incompatible comic book universe collisions.

welcome to american comic companies folks. Might as well try and reason away the mind of the Joker. Just enjoy the good stories in themselves without looking too much outside it's own boundaries. Otherwise you'll go insane or like me you'll just walk away with complete and utter disgust for years.

in a perfect world, Vertigo would be to DC: as Pixar was to Disney.
 
Back in the glory days, Pixar was it's own studio, free to persue what it wanted and Disney supported them with a little infrastrucure and distribution.  Now they're merged, and here comes Cars 2! 

In the early Karen Berger days, they had a similar ideal situation.  Find brilliant creators, let them actually make art for adults, and DC picks up the check.  Fucking with that separation will only result in watering down a beloved character and confusing the Universe in general. 
 
Maybe it's finally fucking time to actually come up with NEW IDEAS!  We could be in the second Renaissance here folks, but instead the spineless suits are just going the way of shitty movie studios and are trying to milk the soul out of any IPs left standing.
 
Arg.

someone needs to continue the story of the endless. Death is too great a character to be left alone. If they can somehow integrate her character into the recent events, it'll be great. More of the new Daniel as Dream as well.

Now how does one reconcile Neil Gaiman's Death with Nekron?   I love Neil's take on Death but I don't know how they'd make the character fit in the DCU.

" Now how does one reconcile Neil Gaiman's Death with Nekron?   I love Neil's take on Death but I don't know how they'd make the character fit in the DCU. "

Hrmm very interesting, I though Death was the shadowy figure at the end of the first part of Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader, but alas I was wrong (only to be Marth Wayne) Gaiman has made timeless characters, and others have been shown to write them, Mike Carrey writing the entire Lucifer series, and Matt Wagner writing a Death Cameo in Madame Xanadu.
 
Maybe this will get some new readers into Vertigo stuff, of course this could all be a ploy to have people by the Sandman trade reprints that come out this fall

ummm... the endless and gaiman's universe has always been in sync with the dc  universe. Think JLA's Morrison run with Daniel (the new dream*- dunno if you were reffering to that comic) , or the books of magic, ydyadyadyadyaaa. shouldn't be surprising that death is gonna be there (p.s. if death looked that good in marvel, thanos is gonna have some competition.

" @Gylan Thomas said:

"  I doubt we'll se anything too crazy like Jesse Custer meeting Batman or Spider Jerusalem teaming up with Terry McGuinness. "

those characters are creator-owned and not part of the DCU "

Careful, DC....she is now perilously close to you're "rape and murdered" field....and yes, she's Death, but I'm sure someone over there is already giving it thought.

i actually think its a good idea for the big brand DC and the smaller vertigo interacting, its a fresh new start with new interactions i mean if two big companies like marvel and dc would team up it would end badly (aka marvel vs dc short series) cause the iconic characters from both brands would clash, however this way it will both get people interested in vertigo, well MORE people anyway and give dc some new stories its a win win

I was under the impression that Gaiman was the only person who could write DEATH. That anyone who used the character had to check with him. It had something to do with that being the only character that he really didn't want anyone else messing with. I thought this most because when  Matt Wagner used her in issue #6 of Madam Xanadu it was under consoltation with Neil and he did the DEATH justice. Also the connection between DC and Vert has really not been talked about since Kevin Smith's run on Green Arrow when he mentioned one of the main characters seeing Dream imprisoned in the glass globe.

Most likely she is replacing Nekron as the enity and manger of the died.

It mean's trouble, nothing but trouble!

" someone needs to continue the story of the endless. Death is too great a character to be left alone. If they can somehow integrate her character into the recent events, it'll be great. More of the new Daniel as Dream as well. "

Also, the Endless are just TOO FUCKING POWERFUL to genuinely effect the events of the DCU as a whole.  Remember, the Judeo-Christian God is part of the DCU too, but you don't see it that much because God can do ANYTHING to ANYTHING.  That's a good way to loose all of the drama from your stories.

" @kitsuneconundrum said:

" someone needs to continue the story of the endless. Death is too great a character to be left alone. If they can somehow integrate her character into the recent events, it'll be great. More of the new Daniel as Dream as well. "

NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO! The Wake is astonishingly beautiful, but that beauty hinges on the fact that it is a farewell to the Endless.  Bring them back, and that bittersweet magic is destroyed.  In comics especially, readers and creators can't help but want to stretch characters until they break.  Sandman is self contained, and if it could remain that way, it could avoid the inevitable homogenization that happens to most comic characters. (and yes, I know there have been tons of spin-offs, some of which are quite good, but those all got great stories out of peripheral characters with cameos from the main players.  The Endless as main characters should be off limits.) "

From the headline I thought that they were shutting down Vertigo. Thankfully I was wrong.

The character looks so cool I guess I will give this series a read to.