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Off My Mind: Throwing the First Punch in AVENGERS VS. X-MEN #1

Two teams that have been working together will now be engaged in an unforgettable battle.

We often see superheroes fight other superheroes. Usually it's over a giant misunderstanding. One of the heroes could be new or unknown to the other. One of the heroes could be in a desperate situation and their actions could be misunderstood by the other. The fighting between them never really escalates too far. They usually come to their senses or some sort of understanding and end up working together to fight the common threat. That isn't the case in AVENGERS VS. X-MEN.

While mutant issues have usually been left to the X-Men, the Avengers have been seen fighting alongside the X-Men a bit recently. There has been a mutual level of respect between the two hero teams in the Marvel Universe. There are even a few heroes that are simultaneously members of both teams.

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Yet the massive battle we've been seeing teasers for has just begun. With everything at stake, it's not going to simply be a misunderstanding. Sides are being chosen among the heroes and readers. As we look at the events of the first issue of AVENGERS VS. X-MEN, who really threw the first punch that has started this fight? (There will be some minor spoilers to AVENGERS VS. X-MEN #1 below).

== TEASER ==
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The Avengers and the X-Men are't strangers. They fight against evil forces many times. When San Francisco had a giant dome placed over it, trapping several members of the X-Men along with city residents, the Avengers showed up to help. When the Avengers were made aware of a strange occurrence in Montana (Tabula Rasa), the X-Men were there to deal with the problem. Most recently, when several alien threats escaped SWORD's custody and began attacking Earth, the two teams had to fight side-by-side in order to deal with them.

But it hasn't always been a cheerful relationship. We also recently saw some fighting over the fate of Scarlet Witch during AVENGERS: THE CHILDREN'S CRUSADE. Lines were drawn in the sand as Cyclops felt she should be held accountable for her actions against mutants and Captain America felt he was an Avengers and they would deal with her.

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What brings the two teams to blows this time is the Phoenix Force. When a member of the Nova Corps arrives on Earth with a warning, residual energies belonging to the entity are detected. The Phoenix Force wants a new host. With it headed towards Earth, that would likely result in the entire planet and solar system being wiped out in its wake. Upon consulting with Wolverine, it was mentioned that Hope Summers, the mutant messiah, would be the most likely host-target.

Captain America arrived on Utopia (with the Avengers as back up, of course) and basically demanded Hope be turned over to them. Cyclops' response was a face full of optic blast.

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Physically, Cyclops struck the first blow. Captain America was there to discuss things. He didn't come in swinging but Cyclops simply lashed out without trying to have a civil conversation.

Then again, Captain America arrived unannounced at their sanctuary and demanded they turn over a mutant child into their custody. After the blow was struck, we saw Cap was with a helicarrier full of Avengers. Just by showing up he made his intentions clear (and Emma's telepathy confirmed it). Captain America wasn't planning on leaving the island without Hope.

So who really threw the first punch?

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This obviously is open to debate. Cyclops told Cap to "get the hell off [his] island" and blasted him. Cap came in with an army of superheroes and informed Cyclops he wasn't asking to be able to take Hope into protective custody. Both leaders made their positions clear. Cyclops may have thrown the first physical blow but Cap made the first move by arriving with demands and not looking for a discussion due to the importance of getting Hope before the Phoenix Force arrived.

Because both parties could be assigned the blame of throwing the first punch, perhaps we should focus on who will throw the final punch...

172 Comments

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lykopis

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Edited By lykopis

@S1llYMDROX said:

Hey forgive if anyone has said this already and this may be waaaay off base but.....isnt a shard of the Void still in Cyclops??

o_o

... if that's what's they are going with....

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Darcsteel

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Edited By Darcsteel

My problem with this fight is after some time thinking about it I cant support the avengers. I get that Cyclops shot first but what exactly was Caps plan. He showed up with a helicarrier packed with avengers ready for war in order to do what, kidnap a young girl from her home. I mean lets face it Hope wasnt going with them willingly so they were going to take her by force one way or another. I just want to know what did Cap think they were going to do with her. What is the benefit for the avengers in taking Hope away from the heavily fortified and ISOLATED fortress of utopia and dragging her into some shield facility in the middle of the US. Or is he doing this to simply feel better because of course the avengers are more qualified to take on the phenoix force then the people who have been dealing with it since it started coming to earth (which if that is the case showcases his own level of arrogance).

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SavageDragon

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Edited By SavageDragon

@chaosimpact79: dude cyclops has been acting kinda crazy for a while now...did you read schism he blasted wolverine and started fighting him when the fate of all Utopia was at stake. Hes fought Logan again for mentioning Jean Grey made a mistake for getting married to him in Astonishing. Scott's character didnt just chnage all of a sudden hes lied to Cap about kid omega and harbored fugitives before and has demanded the Avengers stand down post house of M.

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SavageDragon

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Edited By SavageDragon

@lightfright12: Read Schism. (youtube it if your ok with dubstep)

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S1llYMDROX

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Edited By S1llYMDROX

Hey forgive if anyone has said this already and this may be waaaay off base but.....isnt a shard of the Void still in Cyclops??

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Queso6p4

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Edited By Queso6p4

@FadeToBlackBolt: Haha! That is pretty bad.

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ChillinNKillin

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Edited By ChillinNKillin

@BransonHuggins said:

Seriously, Cyclops is losing it. I get he wants to save his kind, but the decisions should be Hopes, and Hopes alone. Cyclops is essentially forcing her to stay, when she clearly does not want to. Cyclops is simply one track right now; and that's not a good thing.

The reason why Cap showed up w/ Helicarrier full of people is simple, he knew that he was going into Utopia, where there are a majority of high powered mutants. Cap knew what he was going to request wasn't going to go over well, so he went in with back up. Like anyone w/ a brain would. Obviously he was right to do so, as Cyclops attacked him after hearing what he had to say. So yes, Cap was mearly doing what Cap does, planning ahead. He is supposed to be one of the best, if not the best strategic mind in the Marvel U, it would only make sense he would prepare for the possibility of a fight.

One thing is clear though, and that there is something going on with Summers. You could see it in Emma's face, even she knows something is wrong; and it's not good. I don't think this is going to play out like anyone believes. I think Summers is going to show why he is NOT fit to lead a team anymore. He is turning to totalitarian, and losing his principles in the process. It's all good to protect your kind, but when you are basically ruling with an iron fist, you have crossed a line.

I agree completely; especially the part about Hope.

While I'm not sold on how Cap started the discussion, him bringing the Avengers with him when he's going to an island with enough high powered mutants to rape him 1000000x over is only common sense. Especially when you look at who the leader of said island is.

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ChillinNKillin

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Edited By ChillinNKillin

I get that Cap came about this the wrong way, but Cyclops is acting RETARDED here. Seriously.

I mean he thinks he can control THE PHOENIX FORCE!?!?!?

Really?

The man has become mad due to desperation, and is willing to sacrifice Hope to accomplish a foolish (massive understatement I know) plan.

You all say "That's his "granddaughter" and he's trying to protect her!!!" Well I'm calling BS on that because he's willing to sacrifice her to the same monster that claimed his ex-wife. Also remember that he was willing to kill Jean in order to stop it, because the realization that the PF was FAR too dangerous hit home....and even when they thought they stopped it, they FAILED!!! Cyclops is REALLY trying to start this all over again???

Cyclops doesn't realize that what he's doing will actually make life even more difficult for mutantkind.

I'm not necessarily on Cap's side, but I'm DEFINITELY NOT rooting for Cyclops as his plan is bound to fail and take the whole planet down as well.

Hopefully after this Cyclops can become a villain already, as he's clearly well on his way down that path.

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Azjenco

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Edited By Azjenco

@ThanosIsMad said:

The issue was just one big excuse to have two of Marvel's premiere teams duke it out, and a weak one at that. There were several dozen other ways this could've played out. Wolverine's current turbulent relationship with Cyclops could've sparked an argument between the two and had that devolve into Cyclops purposely attacking Cap or another Avenger to set things off.

The world/universe at stake with two opposing views is a far better reason than Wolverine and Cyclops' feud causing Cyke inexplicably to attack Cap. That would be nonsensical and a huge waste of an excuse to cause a war over.

Alright, so the popular notion is to choose a side, but even though I'm leaning over to the X front, I'm still a huge Hulk, Cap and Thor fan, so it's sort of difficult to choose. I'm rather more interested in the individual fights, also as to what the Phoenix's intentions are for returning and how this will play out with Hope.

I'm going to have to side with Cyclops on who started it though. Firstly, Cap went to Wolverine for advice, it may seem a legitimate choice, but right now he's still liking his wounds after the Schism fallout. Was it really smart to ask for his advice? Secondly, yes Cap wanted to talk, but he made demands. "We (obviously the Avengers)need to take Hope into custody", were his first words and later he said he wasn't asking, he's making demands. Then he accused Cyke of being too close to the issue, and then he admittedly stated he sided with Wolverine on this (like I said, Schism wounds are still fresh). He didn't even suggest taking Cyke into consideration here. In Cyke's mind he is single-handedly charged with the responsibility to lead mutantkind from the brink of annihilation, he's a desperate man. Cap approached this like he would any problem at hand, like a stubborn soldier, and it was insensitive if you take what's happening with mutants at present. He brought the Helicarrier and the Avengers along not as a precaution, but as a means to retrieve Hope anyway he saw fit.

Personally, I'm hooked. AvX is handled very well, and I don't get why the naysayers are neighing. Then again, people have been moaning about anything and everything that's been going on lately in comics, which just sadness me. It's a good time to be a comic book reader; DCnU, Uncanny X-Force, Venom, Secret Avengers, and I'll always love Marvel events (a big target for most). And that makes me sad, because most people rather remain nostalgic than admit what's good and still they choose to stick around and remain vocal to let everyone know just how unsatisfied they are.

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CosmicGod432

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Edited By CosmicGod432

You know that last few or more Marvel "big" events have been crap, but for some reason I'm really attracted to this. Maybe it is just me but the combination of Avengers vs X-men, Phoenix Force arriving, and then the new Nova has got me interested. For the first time in a few year I will be picking up an X-men comic.

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spiderbuck1

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Edited By spiderbuck1

@ApatheticAvengersaid:

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@Osiris1428 said:

When King Leonidos (300) told the messengers "THIS. IS.SPARTA!!!", and kicked that guy into the pit, everyone thought it was cool. When Cyclops blasts Cap for doing the same thing the messengers did; come unannounced, veiled threats, insisting they (The Avengers) came with some sort of authority they should recognized and respect, it should be just as understood. This is 300 hundred with mutants. BOO-YA!!!

Shhh! Your argument might shatter the minds of numerous fools who can't see both sides of the situation!

In all seriousness though... THIS. IS.UTOPIA!!!

Awwesome!!!!!

ApatheticAvenger and Osiris1428 just saved the series for me. I'm stoked again.

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Pampam1980

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Edited By Pampam1980

what's up with the art? damn :S

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Nathaniel_Christopher

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Cap's in the right, Cyke's in the wrong. At best, Cyclops can say he knew what Cap's intentions were, not the method he was going to go about it. This is aggresive negotiations and Cap would've been an idiot to go in there without some kind of backup. Maybe the carrier was overkill, but it got the message across and fit the situation. They've got a cosmic threat coming down on their heads and they can't waste time fighting. For Cyclops to attack him like that is...insane to be honest, as he's been trying to protect mutantkind and all that jazz, and he basically just declared war against the U.S.

Its laughable how people say Cap shouldn't have trusted Wolverine, when he has just as much experience with the Phoenix as Cyclops or Storm. He knew full well what he was talking about. And did he say "You need to go in there, guns blazing, tear shit up and nab that bitch"? No, he didn't and that's certainly not what Cap did. He went in and made a statement. Cyclops also chose to make a statement and his statement didn't leave any room open for negotiation. The main problem is that Scott's line of "Mutant Issue" isn't gonna suffice anymore. This isn't an issue that only effects mutants, it could very easily effect the entire planet. The Avengers and the X-Men could've been working together on this if Scott hadn't been sso trigger happy.

Blame can be placed on both shoulders, but its mostly on the shoulders of Scott Summers. He could've let them take Hope and then gone with them, along with the other X-Men. He could've had a sit-down and taken care of some negotiations, instead he basically said "Fuck it" and just went wild.

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Cale_Michael

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Edited By Cale_Michael

I'm not quite sure whose to blame. Sure, Cyclops is crazy for, y'know, hoping his teenaged-adopted-granddaughter will be able to house and control a being of limitless power. It's like trying to manage the entire ocean into a sippy-cup! Good luck, Cyke. I mean, your ex-wife has done a suburb job at keeping it all together when she was attached. And then there's Cap's trespassing and demand of his grandkid with his arsenal of Avengers to back him up... All this could have been solved if everyone just stopped, took a breath, and called together some sort of meeting? Isn't the planet always in peril? Shouldn't they be used to the stress by now??

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Queso6p4

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Edited By Queso6p4

I have to wholeheartedly agree that this issue seemed really rushed, contrived, and sloppy all the way around. New Avengers 24 was a much better, albeit indirect, lead up to the clash. I hope this issue doesn't set the tone for how the rest are going to be because...yeah.

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euskadi1488

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Edited By euskadi1488

@Osiris1428: agreed with u my friend

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god_spawn

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Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

This event is gonna be garbage and this first issue proved it for me. I just can't wait for it to be over and everyone goes on their marry way and see how the few good writers plan on fixing this mess.

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marvel186

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Edited By marvel186

this gonna be a good story! as long Cap is in the story I'll buy it,, He may not have supernatural strength or powers but the way he commands other heroes makes him a hero worth seeing

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fivestarga

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Edited By fivestarga

@deadpoolwins:) said:

ok this is bull. i read schism, and it clearly demonstrated that cyclops is unstable, and has begun to loose his mind. additionally i see all these comments about how much cyclops had done and why he deserves the rights for all this. what he has done pales in comparison to cap. im sorry did cyclops fight off the nazi's, only to be frozen for years, woken up after everyone he knows is dead, and thrown back into fighting. didnt think so.

wolverine is wolverine, and is at this point more stable and reliable then cyclops his, his word is definitely good enough to allow cap to declare war on cyclops.

additionally hope isnt being arrested fro a crime she hasen't committed, she is being taken into protective custody to save the world and herself from the PF. in the end did cyclops even ask hope(this young innocent girl that cap is attempting to "take") what she wants in the end its not up to cyclops to decided the fate of a young girl, and the whole world to boot.

maybe cap didnt go about this in the best way, but cyclops is just been an immature child because he is not getting his way.

This post sounds as if it was written by a child; or Cap fanboy. You clearly don't like Cyke and down play his accomplishments by saying they pale in comparison to Cap fighting Nazis? Kid, Cyke was the leader that kept mutants from being extinct, not to mention he's probably one of the most important characters in marvel over the past decade. Just because you don't like him doesnt mean his accompliments don't give him the right to deal with a Phoenix force he's dealt with many times before. Is he a little wired these days? Sure. You do remember that it was his faith in Hope that caused the mutant gene to start reactivating in the first place, so I can understand his apprehensive nature in regards to letting a NON mutant take her into his power. She dies, the X gene goes back out.

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THEBlaqueBasterd

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Edited By THEBlaqueBasterd

Theres no BLAME to be assigned here, this was coming.. &lets face it Marvel give "u guys" cues.. hence tryin to lead us down the garden path with bullsh*t suggestions like "Captain America was there to discuss things. He didn't come in swinging but Cyclops simply lashed out without trying to have a civil conversation."

Really? Cap WASNT there to discuss anything he was there to apprehend, theres nothing CIVIL about bringing a HeliCarrier to someones front door.. esp when he could have took a quinjet &gone on his own &spoken to Scott man to man THEN made a decision, Cap for once is bein a total JERKOFF &hypocrite as is Wolverine &the other turncoats

But i get the feelin this is all leadin up exactly how they want it to so they can demonise Cykes enuff to kill him off without anyone caring toomuch.. which would not only be a shame.. but a great excercise in cynical mass social/media formatted manipulation.. Political Science 101..watch this space.

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THEBlaqueBasterd

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Edited By THEBlaqueBasterd

@Illuminatus: baahahaha..... ahhh.. -_-

#clink

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SexualLobster

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Edited By SexualLobster

@DocFatalis said:

I'd say that both characters were written here out of character. Not to mention the fact that in each team there are very wise, clever and experienced people who would never run into a stupid self destructive fight head first. This pathetic arc occurring right at the time when the avengers movie is going to be released is just an excuse to get as many masked names as possible in a fight.

I am utterly disappointed with the editorial line right now. And starting to be extremely tired with Bendis.

Well Cyclops has been acting as if he were on Magneto's agenda lately. "Protect mutants, there's so little of us, that's the most important thing''. I'm predicting this ending with Cyclops not leading the Xmen anymore.

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Tone702

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Edited By Tone702

I have always felt Marvel has always kinda down played the mutants. The X-Men are kinda second fiddle to the Avengers. Mutants in general are looked down upon, not just within the comics but also by writers. Any of the uber powerful guys have left or been written off. The X-Men have no Thor or Hulk. And to top it off the whole depowering thing was kinda lame. Mutants are supposed to be the next stage in evolution. Why are they so weak compared to other superheroes? 
 
Thats why it kinda pisses me off that, Captain America goes in there and tries to punk Scott. Im glad Scott shot at him. I say it's time the mutants win one. Let them take down the Avengers, Thor included. (I know, treasonous speak on here) 

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Vermillo

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Edited By Vermillo

Hmm...I don't like how Cap made his decision base of "one" mutant instead of actually researching or asking people with experience which is Scott or Storm. I also find it fun how everybody so easily believe wolverine. I mean if you actually think about it he the last person you ask. I mean this is the same guy who wanted to gut the scarlet witch without even allow her to explain herself. The same person who killed his team mate (Northstar, threaten Hope, Wiccian, and others who got in his way. My I also add that he divided the mutant race between him and Cyke...At the most retarded time possible. Now add the fact he don't like hope or Ckye and that to me seem a little too bias. If anything Cap should had a conference with Scott, Beast, or someone else instead believe logan just of hearsay.

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CaptainFantastic

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Edited By CaptainFantastic

what the f is cap going to do if/when he gets his hands on Hope anyway?

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BransonHuggins

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Edited By BransonHuggins

@TheOlympian:

When did he demand they ARREST Hope? He never said there were arresting her for crimes she has yet to commit. He said they wanted to take her in for her own protection. I get it, she could be safe with the X-Men. The problem is though, that they (the X-Men) made it pretty clear they are all fine and good w/ the Phoenix Force coming to Earth. Cap and the Avengers are saying, NO. We are tasked with protecting the US and Earth from things like this, and we aren't taking that risk. They are saying, look it sucks you lost your powers guys, and that 90% of you were whiped out, but this Phoenix thing, it like to destroy worlds, so yeah, not taking the risk that it's your savior. Sorry. As far as I'm concerned that's not a risk you should be willing to take.

Yes, Cap showed up with a Helicarrier. Why? Because he's not stupid. he plans ahead. Just like when Cyk goes out he tends to bring some back up with him as well. I mean seriously, to think Captain America would go in blind is a bit idiotic. He was not being totalitarian, he was simply using that strategic mind he has, you know the one he got form the Super Soldier formula and what not. Part of being a good leader is planning ahead, and CLEARLY he was right to do so. If he just showed up and was like, hey guys f you I do what I want w/ a helicarrier full of Avengers and nothing happened okay, he would be a dick; but something DID HAPPEN. Lucky for him he had back up huh? But he's in the wrong for going into what he knew, at that time, would be hostile territory with some backup, sure.

Either way though, it doesn't matter what Summers or Rogers want, what matters is what Hope wants, and clearly neither of them care about that one bit. Hence they are both wrong. It's not for them to decide what another human, doesn't matter if she's a mutant, she is a human as well, want her to do, what matters is what she wants. And if she wants to leave, fine. If she wants to stay fine. But no one has really given her a choice, and that I guarantee is going to be a MAJOR crux of all of this. Key word in this series, CHOICE.

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BransonHuggins

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Edited By BransonHuggins

Seriously, Cyclops is losing it. I get he wants to save his kind, but the decisions should be Hopes, and Hopes alone. Cyclops is essentially forcing her to stay, when she clearly does not want to. Cyclops is simply one track right now; and that's not a good thing.

The reason why Cap showed up w/ Helicarrier full of people is simple, he knew that he was going into Utopia, where there are a majority of high powered mutants. Cap knew what he was going to request wasn't going to go over well, so he went in with back up. Like anyone w/ a brain would. Obviously he was right to do so, as Cyclops attacked him after hearing what he had to say. So yes, Cap was mearly doing what Cap does, planning ahead. He is supposed to be one of the best, if not the best strategic mind in the Marvel U, it would only make sense he would prepare for the possibility of a fight.

One thing is clear though, and that there is something going on with Summers. You could see it in Emma's face, even she knows something is wrong; and it's not good. I don't think this is going to play out like anyone believes. I think Summers is going to show why he is NOT fit to lead a team anymore. He is turning to totalitarian, and losing his principles in the process. It's all good to protect your kind, but when you are basically ruling with an iron fist, you have crossed a line.

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Daycrawler

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Edited By Daycrawler

@jcbart: Colossonaut has quite a few fights lined up. Looking forward to the Spidey and Rulk ones. Want spidey to win I think, but Rulk to get his ass kicked!

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Daycrawler

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Edited By Daycrawler

@deadpoolwins:) said:

ok this is bull. i read schism, and it clearly demonstrated that cyclops is unstable, and has begun to loose his mind. additionally i see all these comments about how much cyclops had done and why he deserves the rights for all this. what he has done pales in comparison to cap. im sorry did cyclops fight off the nazi's, only to be frozen for years, woken up after everyone he knows is dead, and thrown back into fighting. didnt think so.

wolverine is wolverine, and is at this point more stable and reliable then cyclops his, his word is definitely good enough to allow cap to declare war on cyclops.

additionally hope isnt being arrested fro a crime she hasen't committed, she is being taken into protective custody to save the world and herself from the PF. in the end did cyclops even ask hope(this young innocent girl that cap is attempting to "take") what she wants in the end its not up to cyclops to decided the fate of a young girl, and the whole world to boot.

maybe cap didnt go about this in the best way, but cyclops is just been an immature child because he is not getting his way.

Lol. Okay.....

Paragraph 1 - Boo and indeed Hoo! A sad, but heroic past doesn't give anyone the right to act like a douche trying to implement a flawed plan. Cyclops may be unstable, but that don't mean that Cap can use this as an excuse to blunder in and be unreasonable too.

Paragraph 2 - Seriously, ONE man's assumptions (backed with no hard evidence supplied to Cap that Hope is definitely the PF host) is enough to start a war on an independent nation. Admit it, your real name is Donald Rumsfeld isn't it?

Paragraph 3 - No, she isn't being arrested as in Cap didn't say "I'm arresting Hope" But seriously, what Cap wants to do pretty much amounts to the same thing given that "protective custody" is a loose term that could mean lots of things from putting her up in a comfy hotel with freedom of movement, to 'hold' her in a heavily armed, maximum security off-world facility with the option of killing her if it is deemed the only way to stop the Phoenix Force. Plus the phrase has the word 'custody' in it, as in "we have the target in custody", as in "we've arrested the suspect".

Paragraph 4 - As is Cap, to a lesser extent admittedly.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that Cyclops is losing the plot and making wrong-headed decisions, but this shouldn't be used as an excuse for other people's stupidity and bad decisions (i.e Cap). For the record, I'm a fan of both the Avengers and the X-Men and am still on the fence as both sides have made bad decisions and mistakes.

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vicioushero

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I'm glad Cyclops shot that star spangled chump. Rolling in with his goon squad like the SS. Not cool Steve, not cool.

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deadpoolwins:)

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Edited By deadpoolwins:)

ok this is bull. i read schism, and it clearly demonstrated that cyclops is unstable, and has begun to loose his mind. additionally i see all these comments about how much cyclops had done and why he deserves the rights for all this. what he has done pales in comparison to cap. im sorry did cyclops fight off the nazi's, only to be frozen for years, woken up after everyone he knows is dead, and thrown back into fighting. didnt think so.

wolverine is wolverine, and is at this point more stable and reliable then cyclops his, his word is definitely good enough to allow cap to declare war on cyclops.

additionally hope isnt being arrested fro a crime she hasen't committed, she is being taken into protective custody to save the world and herself from the PF. in the end did cyclops even ask hope(this young innocent girl that cap is attempting to "take") what she wants in the end its not up to cyclops to decided the fate of a young girl, and the whole world to boot.

maybe cap didnt go about this in the best way, but cyclops is just been an immature child because he is not getting his way.

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jcbart

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@Daycrawler said:

@IronHerc said:

@fnh said:

I'm surprise that there are so many people on Cyclops' side. Cyclops is completely in the wrong on this. Not only did he throw the first punch, he was being very hostile to Cap and turned down Cap's invitation for assistance. Cap said "we" in the above image stating that he wanted their help and what does Cyclops do? He completely rejects it. And his cry about Avengers never caring when mutants are in trouble? Will guess what, whenever the Avengers try to help they get the "it's a mutant issue, we'll deal with it so back off" line. Heck, it's pretty much the first thing that Cyclops says to him in this very issue. When Caps says "respecting you", that's what he means. He backs off when it comes to mutant issues because that's what Cyclops want. Also, nobody has ask Hope what she wants and thanks to Cyclops, Cap doesn't even get a chance to ask.

Couldn't say it in better words my friend, making 99.9% complains from cyclops fans irrelevant ^__^

Bollocks. Firstly 'invitation' implies there's a choice. There clearly wasn't given Cap came to Utopia mob-handed ready for a fight if his 'invitation' was turned down. That's not an invitation it's a thinly disguised ultimatum. Say yes and we're friends, say no and I hit you repeatedly until you say yes. Not exactly friendly, diplomatic or 'respectful'. He's there to effectively take a young girl off foreign soil by force if Cyclops says no.

Big deal if Cap said "we", doesn't mean that he genuinely wanted their help. "We" can mean 'you and I together', or 'We, the Avengers'. Given Caps actions I take it to mean the latter. If he had genuinely wanted the X-Men's help then he'd wouldn't have held an impromptu meeting on a beach for such an important matter and have his first line be about needing to take Hope into protective custody. Not exactly a neutral, non-confrontational opener. Cap has a game plan which is get Hope at any costs because he thinks he know best. "If the mutants help us, great, if not then screw them." His approach should have been more like, okay Hope is the likely host (bearing in mind Cap has only Logan's say-so on this at this point), so we need to figure out a plan. Who has the most knowledge and experience with the Phoenix? Mutants. Therefore lets approach this with a certain degree of empathy and tactfulness cos it would be extremely good and useful to have the X-Men on board. Turning up on the beach, provocatively demanding to take Hope, potential mutant messiah, is stupid and a guaranteed route to conflict. Cap represents the US government and how many times have they persecuted and killed mutants? Of course Cyclops, and a lot of other X-Men, are going to take a dim view on a US representative landing unannounced on their independent island and saying gimme your potential savior, we know best, she'll be in 'protective' custody (like that actually means anything where the Phoenix is concerned!).

Also, the whole "respect" line is a crock of poop. Sure Cyclops says it's a mutant problem and they'll handle it, but that's because they've become accustomed to doing so. They Avengers have only really ever tried to help after one of their own screwed over the mutant race (guilt anyone?), by which time it was pretty much a meaningless gesture. Sure, Cyclops reasoning for saying this is suspect to say the least, but Caps approach was heavy-handed, ill-conceived and provocative. Any idiot can work out that saying were here to take one of your people as an approach to diplomacy and working in a spirit of respect, trust and cooperation is never going to work.

Cyke threw the first physical punch, but Cap 'threw' the first tactical punch. And fluffed it. Cyclops is blinded by his belief in Hope and saving the mutant race, true. But Cap is blinded by his unshakeable belief that he knows best and people should jump when he says jump. He wants to save the planet, but his first act is to enrage the very people that would be hugely useful in helping by charging in like a moron.

We're on the exact same wavelength. A point that you marked out though which I forgot about is that not only has Cap done all of this, but he did it on Logan's word and Logan's word alone.

Sure, Wolverine's a good mate and can be trusted, but to essentially declare war (let's face it, that is what Cap did) on an entire island just off of the word of one man? Pah. He didn't even say to Scott, "Is it true? Do you house a girl who is theorised to be the next host of a cosmic entity with the potential to wipe us all out?" No. He jumped the ship, and paid the price.

Now, I just wanted to see Colossonaut smack Steve Rogers into the ground.

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LordRequiem

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Get the handbags out.

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rpgr

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Cyke is right! Besides with xsanction we know that Cyke knows bad things will happen if Cap takes Hope away.

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Daycrawler

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@sparty-dbq said:

Cap showed up with an invading force hidden from view. He came with a clear agenda in mind.

That said, I'm still 100% on his side here. Mainly because Cyclops' lunacy was even more prevalent during the conversation:

Cyclops: Derrrrrrrr, when was the last time you helped any mutants?

Cap: Um, didn't we just help you out with the SWORD breakout?

Cyclops: Uhhhhhhh, what have you done for us since then?

Cap: Since then? IT WAS 5 DAYS AGO! (or whenever the hell this takes place after the latest UXM arc). How have you not suffocated yourself with a grocery bag by now?

I know I should be faulting Bendis more for this, but I just so sick of Cyclops' bullcrap that I just can't direct my anger anywhere else.

Think Scott was referring to when mutants were in trouble / being slaughtered, the Avengers were nowhere to be seen. The SWORD breakout is a non-mutant issue with the mutants electing to help out and getting the Avengers in on the act. Everyone was helping SWORD and the Avengers would have helped regardless. So Cyclops point still stands.

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Wow_Im_A_Wonderful_Eggplant

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Clearly it was an optic blast of love. You can tell by the strong feelings Steve and Scott exhibit towards each other. Steve wants more and is giving the finger gestures to beg for it.

" Disrespect me, Summers! DISRESPECT ME SO GOOD!!! " XD

Seriously, thanks for covering this event so I know what's going on in 616 without having to waste my time reading this spittle myself. ;)

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AlKusanagi

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I say Cap calls the Defenders, Invaders, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Great Lakes Avengers and takes care of the mutie problem once and for all...

Except Magik, but she'll totally sell out her kind to be rid of that dick Summers.

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FadeToBlackBolt

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@G-Man said:


No Caption Provided


How can anyone read this and not think this comic is a pile of sh*t? 
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DocFatalis

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I'd say that both characters were written here out of character. Not to mention the fact that in each team there are very wise, clever and experienced people who would never run into a stupid self destructive fight head first. This pathetic arc occurring right at the time when the avengers movie is going to be released is just an excuse to get as many masked names as possible in a fight.

I am utterly disappointed with the editorial line right now. And starting to be extremely tired with Bendis.

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enigma_2099

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Who cares who threw the first punch.... the f******* heroes are fighting each other... AGAIN.

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Darkmount1

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@Triumphant: Though it's this version of G1 Prime I had in mind (let's say he's from an alternate universe):

No Caption Provided

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TheOlympian

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@jcbart said:

@The Stegman: There was sweet bugger all diplomacy. You said it yourself, he brought the helicarrier packed with Avengers 'just in case' there was a situation. Aka just in case Scott said no. That is not diplomacy. That is Cap being a dictator. He was saying, "I'm taking Hope. You say no, I unload Hell upon your little island." I mean come on, there are children on that island, and Cap is okay unleashing every other superhero to wreak havoc on their home? If that isn't the epitome of irresponsible then I don't know what is. Cyclops has trained the children to fight, but if Cap's so high-and-mighty, he should be acting reasonable. Not like this. There was no other option with his 'offer'. Even Emma could sense that in his thoughts. He set foot on the island to forcibly take Hope (again, as indicated by all those Avengers).

The X-Men have dealt with the Phoenix Force countless times, and have the Avengers ever been concerned with planetary obliteration on any of those occasions? Have they pussy foot. So why now? I mean, Cable warned them that if they did this, it would have drastic ramifications, and yet Captain America still decided to take the non-diplomatic option. Why did he need to take her? Why couldn't they have all worked together using Utopia as a base? Why did he have to take her away? He can't hide her from the Phoenix Force. And if he thinks he can, well.. that's evidence enough to prove that Cap has no idea what he's talking about when it comes to the Phoenix Force.

Whether Cyclops is right or wrong in wanting to attempt to get the Phoenix Force to bring back the mutant race from the brink of extinction is completely irrelevant. This is about why Captain America handled the situation in the worst possible way and how he could have done it right.

Preach.

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TheOlympian

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@jcbart said:

@Enyalios: I wholeheartedly agree.

Captain America turned up on Utopia sporting the hellicarrier and a whole lot of Avengers and ordered a small girl be taken into custody for crimes that she hasn't committed yet. He didn't say, "Look, we can band the smartest minds on the planet to help find a solution." He didn't say, "I know you've dealt with the Phoenix Force more times than I can imagine and you know what you're doing but I think you need our help this time." No. He came and said, "We're taking the child. Whether or not you or she likes it, and we'll cut down any one of your mutants who disagrees."

Captain America was acting like a totalitarian jerk. Where were the Avengers after Genosha was obliterated? Where were the Avengers when one of 'their own' wiped out 90% of the mutant population (since Wanda's a mutant I guess it's a mutant problem and thus nothing to do with them)? They can't pick and choose when they want to interfere with mutants. They aren't the law.

This x 1000. Thank you.

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RainEffect

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Edited By RainEffect

In Summary

 
- People hate Cyclops
- Marvel is pandering to people's dislike of Cyclops by making Steve look like the hero
- Therefore, nothing at Marvel has changed.
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Blacklightning13

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Edited By Blacklightning13

Cap started it. He basically declared war. But his biggest hope for the war was surrender. Scott didn't surrender so he started the actual war but Cap made the first move.

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SavageDragon

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@primepower53: its a collaboration of writers man not just bendis

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Mooty_Pass

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@fivestarga: I agree with you. I LOVE CAP and respect him but, why the hell would you show up to somone else door WITH, a helicarrier FULL of avengers!? COME ON CAP! thats not right ,and Cyke is a first class FOOL for doing what he did. They are both in the wrong ,but I kinda see why he took that action to attack Cap.

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sparty-dbq

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Edited By sparty-dbq

Cap showed up with an invading force hidden from view. He came with a clear agenda in mind.

That said, I'm still 100% on his side here. Mainly because Cyclops' lunacy was even more prevalent during the conversation:

Cyclops: Derrrrrrrr, when was the last time you helped any mutants?

Cap: Um, didn't we just help you out with the SWORD breakout?

Cyclops: Uhhhhhhh, what have you done for us since then?

Cap: Since then? IT WAS 5 DAYS AGO! (or whenever the hell this takes place after the latest UXM arc). How have you not suffocated yourself with a grocery bag by now?

I know I should be faulting Bendis more for this, but I just so sick of Cyclops' bullcrap that I just can't direct my anger anywhere else.

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sentryman555

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Edited By sentryman555

It was emma frost that started it! What did she do to cyclops? Telepathy conversation saying "oh cap's not gonna leave without Hope." and cyke was all "Oh hell no!" and emma was all "and he thinks your eyebeams are lame" and then Cyclops laser blasted cap. That is how it really happened.

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StarKiller809

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Edited By StarKiller809

I think Captain America sorta started it. I'm getting a little tired of Cyclops being portrayed as a laser dick. The writer made it to where it is easy to say either one of them started it.