Off My Mind: Throwing the First Punch in AVENGERS VS. X-MEN #1

@mtrakos said:

When Steve Rogers tells you something you do it. I'm not sure with what each team is staffed in issue 1 how the x-men walk away from this into issue 2. xmen vs avengers and SHIELD? Adios xmen.

Only if your an unquestioning idiot with no opinions of your own.

@Osiris1428 said:

When King Leonidos (300) told the messengers "THIS. IS. SPARTA!!!", and kicked that guy into the pit, everyone thought it was cool. When Cyclops blasts Cap for doing the same thing the messengers did; come unannounced, veiled threats, insisting they (The Avengers) came with some sort of authority they should recognized and respect, it should be just as understood. This is 300 hundred with mutants. BOO-YA!!!

I'll take this.....Either Cyclops was just going to give Hope up or there was going to be trouble anyway you look at it. I can't give Cap any credibility just because he's asked for her "nicely", even though he was prepared to take her anyway. I hate Cyclops, Jean Grey, The Phoenix, Hope Summers and the whole overrated bloodline. I'm just sick of the continuous loop of unanswered questions, space time influence and potential behind all of them. I never understand what is their purpose and what's so great about them, they have been hanging on and hinting to this whole concept for far too long,

I also notice a lot of people saying this is just another civil war and marvel needs new ideas, that may be the case. Then again what it's been over 50 years, is it possible that marvel has thought of every kind of idea humanly possible to entertain us? I don't think there is anything wrong with the idea of X-men vs Avengers, I just get tired of marvel hovering around the same characters and the same issues surrounding them over and over again....They trash new characters when they don't sell, and they don't even try to flesh them out or expand on them.

For example why haven't the Avengers or the X-men addressed Wolverine for letting his Psychotic son pretty much do whatever he wants to do? why has there been no war about the mutant killing team created by Cyclops, X-force. What's going on with Nick Fury, isn't about time for him to return and have a part of any of this? I mean are there not other characters who can take part in this? Lastly I do feel the argument is weak, why can't they just work together to resolve the issues while there are underlining enemies attempting to assist the Phoenix force feeling it is needed and must have a host? I mean a disagreement for one issue is fine but to make a whole arc out of this.....

Blech. I hate modern event comics, even with strawberries. This serves to only leave a real bad taste in my mouth.

I'd rather see Optimus Prime step in during the middle of the fight, with the following statement:

"ENOUGH! Fighting between your two forces will only lead to further disaster. For the sake of the universe, you must put aside your differences and talk this out."

Captain America: "Who are you?"

Optimus: "My name is Optimus Prime. And for the duration of this crisis, I am taking command of both the Avengers and the X-Men."

To Be Continued

@ApatheticAvenger said:

Cap had it coming showing up on Utopia with a helicarrier full of Avengers, diplomatic relations were doomed from the start. Can't really blame him though, this is all a result of Bendis' below average writing capabilities.

QFT!!!!

Cyclops just blasted Cap off again. Well, first time that is. =P

In these situations, it should always be remembered that Han shot first, and yes, I'm fairly bitter about the whole situation... as for this, Cap was clearly on the offensive here, and what Cyclops did, he did while defending the civil rights of someone under his command and protection.

While I grant that it's all about intention, the debate comes down to this: If (and it's a big if) Cap's intention was to demand that Hope Summers be placed into their custody, or to forcibly take arrest her (without warrant or jurisdiction) then that is an aggressive act (which Emma Frost would know) and Cyclops was justified in throwing the first punch.

However, if it was Cap's intention to negotiate a deal where Hope was put into a location where she is neither in danger or a potential threat, then Cyclops would have no reason to attack him and it should have started as an argument and then rallied up to that point (though I've not read it and am going by what I've heard and what's in the OP)

My personal opinion is this: Cap (and the Avengers) have no reason to interfere in this, if anything, Cap should be the one defending Hope and not wanting to take her into custody, but if SHIELD wanted in on this, then it would have been fair(ish) for Cap to then intervene and let Wolverine take point as this is an X-Men matter and there is a tactical advantage in them joining forces to figure things out, rather than them fighting. In short: this is an obvious publicity stunt, which will alter the personalities of characters in order to get them to do something they shouldn't, or wouldn't do *cough* OMIT *cough* and that is why there was more of an outcry against the choices of some characters and why there'll be a lot more outcry against the results of fights, the progression of the storyline etc, etc.

Tangent/rant over

I disagree. It was Cap's fault as you heard. He said he was leaving the Island with Hope no matter what. So he was pretty much saying that if Cyclops tried to walk away he would then take him out and get Hope. So I'm against the Avengers on this one

Nice Article, Check out my review on Uncanny X-Men 9 & 10 here

http://infinitedigressions.tumblr.com/post/20920106611/tested-ink-uncanny-x-men-vol-2-9-10-avx-prelude

For crying out loud --- The Phoenix is a destructive force. It has killed billions of beings, destroyed entire solar systems. And Cyclops believes he can rein in this power via Hope?

Seriously?

Common sense would be for any mutant capable of hosting the Phoenix to sequester themselves in a holding facility for not just their sake, but for the planet. This isn't an Avenger/X-Men threat, it's an Earth threat.

Cyclops isn't protecting his foster/adopted/reincarnated whatever-she-is. He wants a weapon of mass destructions and his way of thinking has been more and more skewed as time has gone on.

Everyone is grabbing at various comments to support their stances, but come on now. Cyclops is in the right because the Avengers showed up en masse to Utopia?

Again, seriously?

The Phoenix must be contained and defeated, not harnessed and utilized. If that were possible, it would have been done by now. Any X-Fan knows that every time its shown up, the X-Men reacted with justifiable fear and aggression. That Cyclops and other mutants alongside him feeling it's capture could be a boon to their cause is just ridiculous. It's insulting. Unless Cyclops is portrayed as insane (which to me, he is.)

A shoving match and hurt feelings over approach and re-interpretation of the past is moot when faced with the Earth's impending doom. It's not 200 mutants against 6 billion humans - The Phoenix makes no distinction.

What's with the Finger guns Cap ?

Cyke owns

@Osiris1428: amen brother i think cyc handle things like a gangster lol

My thoughts on how it will turn out: either A) Cyclops becomes next Magneto, and becomes the villain all writers seem to write him as nowadays, B) Avengers and X-men duke it out for a bit, Wolverine picks a side, then they realize "Oh Damn, the Phoenix Force is evil and is trying to kill us all", and they team up to take it down, or C) They do like they did in Civil War, make the fighting escalate until finally, even though the Avengers were clearly the favorite team and due to intense writer bias they are clearly in the right, they cop out at the last minute by surrendering to the X-men (just like Captain America did way back in 2006).

Cyclops is a strawman, like Tony Stark. Sure, people can agree with what he's doing, but he's written in such a way that you can tell the writers don't believe he's right. That's why I've heard Magneto say that he's sounding like him at least 5 different times in recent X-books, because most writers honestly see him as a dick and villain material.

To think Cyke is a rational guy...I am wondering how and WHY would he think the Phoenix Force ( which caused increadible damage everytime it came to Earth and to himself personally aka Jean Grey ) would HELP .....

I can understand if he lost marbles among the recent events or the pressure is getting to him.....but it doesn't make it more ''senseable'' when he flatout hoping to take such a risk at everyone's expense. And the build-up for it ? It is quite ....weird to see Cyke to go such extreme in a matter of such a short time , in order to reach the event I assume, and turn out to be more like 'Magneto' in the end 'Do whatever neccessary for Mutants with others' expense'.

Lets face it, it was quite a cheap entrance and was there just to show ''Ohh look, we're gonna be action-packed yea ! Huge event , big explosions with everyone punching for little reason ! ''...

Maybe I am over-exaggerating but this issue didn't help much to prove me wrong .

This is definitely one of those situations in which you can assert that BOTH parties started the fight. Yes, Cyclops may have essentially drew first blood with zapping Cap, but Steve didn't exactly make for the most cordial of situations by simply demanding that Hope be taken into Avengers custody. It was one of those situations that unfortunately will be interpreted by both sides as an act of aggression on the part of the other party, just as in the historical example of the bombardment of Fort Sumter on April 12, 1861 (tomorrow being the 151st anniversary of that opening salvo of the Civil War) being claimed as an act of an aggression by both Yanks and Rebs. It is one of those situations that will be used as a license for violence on down the line and give justification for either side to continue waging violence against the other side. Its one of those moments you wish WOULD have been handled better.

@lightfright12 said:

scott seems to be bringing together the aspects of both Xavier and Magneto into his character. When did he star becoming such a hardass/badass?

Good to see someone understands that he is not the new Magneto, this is allot more accurate. Also he become his current hard/badass self (even though he is largely out of character here) when he found himself leader of an entire species with less than 200 members because of Scarlet Witch's screw up

@Osiris1428 said:

I side with Cyclops on this, right or wrong. I never thought I would say that....oh, yeah I did say that during the whole "Schism" thing. This is the Cyclops I wish that was on the X-Men movies.

This

@ApatheticAvenger said:

Cap had it coming showing up on Utopia with a helicarrier full of Avengers, diplomatic relations were doomed from the start. Can't really blame him though, this is all a result of Bendis' below average writing capabilities.

and This

thank you gentlemen eloquently put

@Osiris1428 said:

I side with Cyclops on this, right or wrong. I never thought I would say that....oh, yeah I did say that during the whole "Schism" thing. This is the Cyclops I wish that was on the X-Men movies.

THIS.

@lightfright12: Remember this, by any chance? (Even though it doesn't address the Xavier side)

@DocFatalis said:

@Mokey said:

Oh, I'm sure it'll be pretty forgettable.

I tend to agree.

that would have been such a nice surprise, if all of a sudden, both teams had been depicted acting reasonable like: "Cyke:Woah, the entire solar system's at threat, you sure?

Cap: Well, almost, but there's plenty of things we can try without harming hope the least, and I guarantee that's what we'll try to do.

Cyke: Ok, cool. You know we've got pretty good scientists and telepaths here as well, so maybe they could lend you a hand and we could find a joint solution.

Cap: Nice of you dude, I appreciate. I'm going to call Richards too, this guy knows about cosmic threats.

Cyke: Sure, sure, wanna have coffee, beer or something? Mi casa tu casa pal, feel free to get stuff out of the fridge while we're working on this together.

Cap: Thanks Cyke, I'm sure we'll find something in no time, Banner just textmessaged me and he'll be joining in this afternoon."

Two days later, problem solved with zero destruction and and vivid friendship between the two teams. Now we can see awesome trainings in the danger room with the red Hulk giving Spidey special throws and Rogue getting a crush on DD.

But of course it wouldn't look as uselessly spectacular as an incredibly unlikely stupid war between two teams full of wise and experienced people and who so far have almost been all-time allies.

..........This needs to be made, we need a variant issue, a parody, something. This is just to awesome

@Darkmount1: I read that in Peter Cullen's voice.

@ApatheticAvenger: Ditto

The other piece on this one that is somewhat irksome is this whole fight is based on pure speculation, and uneducated speculation at that. Everyone is coming for Hope as the next vessal of the Phoenix Force because....why? In the case of the Avengers its because Wolverine (highly educated man right there) said so. Cyclops because she is the so-called mutant messiah (ultimately in this case, because Cable and Bishop said so) and so the Phoenix Force coming to Earth now, somehow it makes sense that it would go to Hope.

Not really sure why. The only thing Hope has in common with any other host of the Phoenix Force (barring Phoenix from the Guardians of the Galaxy era) is she is a redhead somewhat associated with the Summers. That's it. Now, all things considered, if the Avengers really wanted to be safe, there is another that has all the prereqs for hosting the Phoenix Force that is a far more likely contender for this, and that's Rachel who just lost her connection to the Phoenix Force and just made it back to Earth and now the Phoenix Force is rocketting towards Earth. Hmmmm. So why didn't Cap want to put Rachel in protective custody 'just in case'.

Because if he did, we would all be having a very different conversation right now when Wolverine told him no and ninja kicked his ass out the window. Bet Cap would not have too many fans on this page then.

I think Captain America sorta started it. I'm getting a little tired of Cyclops being portrayed as a laser dick. The writer made it to where it is easy to say either one of them started it.

It was emma frost that started it! What did she do to cyclops? Telepathy conversation saying "oh cap's not gonna leave without Hope." and cyke was all "Oh hell no!" and emma was all "and he thinks your eyebeams are lame" and then Cyclops laser blasted cap. That is how it really happened.

Cap showed up with an invading force hidden from view. He came with a clear agenda in mind.

That said, I'm still 100% on his side here. Mainly because Cyclops' lunacy was even more prevalent during the conversation:

Cyclops: Derrrrrrrr, when was the last time you helped any mutants?

Cap: Um, didn't we just help you out with the SWORD breakout?

Cyclops: Uhhhhhhh, what have you done for us since then?

Cap: Since then? IT WAS 5 DAYS AGO! (or whenever the hell this takes place after the latest UXM arc). How have you not suffocated yourself with a grocery bag by now?

I know I should be faulting Bendis more for this, but I just so sick of Cyclops' bullcrap that I just can't direct my anger anywhere else.

@fivestarga: I agree with you. I LOVE CAP and respect him but, why the hell would you show up to somone else door WITH, a helicarrier FULL of avengers!? COME ON CAP! thats not right ,and Cyke is a first class FOOL for doing what he did. They are both in the wrong ,but I kinda see why he took that action to attack Cap.

@primepower53: its a collaboration of writers man not just bendis

Cap started it. He basically declared war. But his biggest hope for the war was surrender. Scott didn't surrender so he started the actual war but Cap made the first move.

In Summary

@jcbart said:

@Enyalios: I wholeheartedly agree.

Captain America turned up on Utopia sporting the hellicarrier and a whole lot of Avengers and ordered a small girl be taken into custody for crimes that she hasn't committed yet. He didn't say, "Look, we can band the smartest minds on the planet to help find a solution." He didn't say, "I know you've dealt with the Phoenix Force more times than I can imagine and you know what you're doing but I think you need our help this time." No. He came and said, "We're taking the child. Whether or not you or she likes it, and we'll cut down any one of your mutants who disagrees."

Captain America was acting like a totalitarian jerk. Where were the Avengers after Genosha was obliterated? Where were the Avengers when one of 'their own' wiped out 90% of the mutant population (since Wanda's a mutant I guess it's a mutant problem and thus nothing to do with them)? They can't pick and choose when they want to interfere with mutants. They aren't the law.

This x 1000. Thank you.

@jcbart said:

@The Stegman: There was sweet bugger all diplomacy. You said it yourself, he brought the helicarrier packed with Avengers 'just in case' there was a situation. Aka just in case Scott said no. That is not diplomacy. That is Cap being a dictator. He was saying, "I'm taking Hope. You say no, I unload Hell upon your little island." I mean come on, there are children on that island, and Cap is okay unleashing every other superhero to wreak havoc on their home? If that isn't the epitome of irresponsible then I don't know what is. Cyclops has trained the children to fight, but if Cap's so high-and-mighty, he should be acting reasonable. Not like this. There was no other option with his 'offer'. Even Emma could sense that in his thoughts. He set foot on the island to forcibly take Hope (again, as indicated by all those Avengers).

The X-Men have dealt with the Phoenix Force countless times, and have the Avengers ever been concerned with planetary obliteration on any of those occasions? Have they pussy foot. So why now? I mean, Cable warned them that if they did this, it would have drastic ramifications, and yet Captain America still decided to take the non-diplomatic option. Why did he need to take her? Why couldn't they have all worked together using Utopia as a base? Why did he have to take her away? He can't hide her from the Phoenix Force. And if he thinks he can, well.. that's evidence enough to prove that Cap has no idea what he's talking about when it comes to the Phoenix Force.

Whether Cyclops is right or wrong in wanting to attempt to get the Phoenix Force to bring back the mutant race from the brink of extinction is completely irrelevant. This is about why Captain America handled the situation in the worst possible way and how he could have done it right.

Preach.

@Triumphant: Though it's this version of G1 Prime I had in mind (let's say he's from an alternate universe):

Who cares who threw the first punch.... the f******* heroes are fighting each other... AGAIN.

I'd say that both characters were written here out of character. Not to mention the fact that in each team there are very wise, clever and experienced people who would never run into a stupid self destructive fight head first. This pathetic arc occurring right at the time when the avengers movie is going to be released is just an excuse to get as many masked names as possible in a fight.

I am utterly disappointed with the editorial line right now. And starting to be extremely tired with Bendis.

I say Cap calls the Defenders, Invaders, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Great Lakes Avengers and takes care of the mutie problem once and for all...

Except Magik, but she'll totally sell out her kind to be rid of that dick Summers.

Clearly it was an optic blast of love. You can tell by the strong feelings Steve and Scott exhibit towards each other. Steve wants more and is giving the finger gestures to beg for it.

" Disrespect me, Summers! DISRESPECT ME SO GOOD!!! " XD

Seriously, thanks for covering this event so I know what's going on in 616 without having to waste my time reading this spittle myself. ;)

@sparty-dbq said:

Cap showed up with an invading force hidden from view. He came with a clear agenda in mind.

That said, I'm still 100% on his side here. Mainly because Cyclops' lunacy was even more prevalent during the conversation:

Cyclops: Derrrrrrrr, when was the last time you helped any mutants?

Cap: Um, didn't we just help you out with the SWORD breakout?

Cyclops: Uhhhhhhh, what have you done for us since then?

Cap: Since then? IT WAS 5 DAYS AGO! (or whenever the hell this takes place after the latest UXM arc). How have you not suffocated yourself with a grocery bag by now?

I know I should be faulting Bendis more for this, but I just so sick of Cyclops' bullcrap that I just can't direct my anger anywhere else.

Think Scott was referring to when mutants were in trouble / being slaughtered, the Avengers were nowhere to be seen. The SWORD breakout is a non-mutant issue with the mutants electing to help out and getting the Avengers in on the act. Everyone was helping SWORD and the Avengers would have helped regardless. So Cyclops point still stands.

Cyke is right! Besides with xsanction we know that Cyke knows bad things will happen if Cap takes Hope away.

Get the handbags out.

@Daycrawler said:

@IronHerc said:

@fnh said:

I'm surprise that there are so many people on Cyclops' side. Cyclops is completely in the wrong on this. Not only did he throw the first punch, he was being very hostile to Cap and turned down Cap's invitation for assistance. Cap said "we" in the above image stating that he wanted their help and what does Cyclops do? He completely rejects it. And his cry about Avengers never caring when mutants are in trouble? Will guess what, whenever the Avengers try to help they get the "it's a mutant issue, we'll deal with it so back off" line. Heck, it's pretty much the first thing that Cyclops says to him in this very issue. When Caps says "respecting you", that's what he means. He backs off when it comes to mutant issues because that's what Cyclops want. Also, nobody has ask Hope what she wants and thanks to Cyclops, Cap doesn't even get a chance to ask.

Couldn't say it in better words my friend, making 99.9% complains from cyclops fans irrelevant ^__^

Bollocks. Firstly 'invitation' implies there's a choice. There clearly wasn't given Cap came to Utopia mob-handed ready for a fight if his 'invitation' was turned down. That's not an invitation it's a thinly disguised ultimatum. Say yes and we're friends, say no and I hit you repeatedly until you say yes. Not exactly friendly, diplomatic or 'respectful'. He's there to effectively take a young girl off foreign soil by force if Cyclops says no.

Big deal if Cap said "we", doesn't mean that he genuinely wanted their help. "We" can mean 'you and I together', or 'We, the Avengers'. Given Caps actions I take it to mean the latter. If he had genuinely wanted the X-Men's help then he'd wouldn't have held an impromptu meeting on a beach for such an important matter and have his first line be about needing to take Hope into protective custody. Not exactly a neutral, non-confrontational opener. Cap has a game plan which is get Hope at any costs because he thinks he know best. "If the mutants help us, great, if not then screw them." His approach should have been more like, okay Hope is the likely host (bearing in mind Cap has only Logan's say-so on this at this point), so we need to figure out a plan. Who has the most knowledge and experience with the Phoenix? Mutants. Therefore lets approach this with a certain degree of empathy and tactfulness cos it would be extremely good and useful to have the X-Men on board. Turning up on the beach, provocatively demanding to take Hope, potential mutant messiah, is stupid and a guaranteed route to conflict. Cap represents the US government and how many times have they persecuted and killed mutants? Of course Cyclops, and a lot of other X-Men, are going to take a dim view on a US representative landing unannounced on their independent island and saying gimme your potential savior, we know best, she'll be in 'protective' custody (like that actually means anything where the Phoenix is concerned!).

Also, the whole "respect" line is a crock of poop. Sure Cyclops says it's a mutant problem and they'll handle it, but that's because they've become accustomed to doing so. They Avengers have only really ever tried to help after one of their own screwed over the mutant race (guilt anyone?), by which time it was pretty much a meaningless gesture. Sure, Cyclops reasoning for saying this is suspect to say the least, but Caps approach was heavy-handed, ill-conceived and provocative. Any idiot can work out that saying were here to take one of your people as an approach to diplomacy and working in a spirit of respect, trust and cooperation is never going to work.

Cyke threw the first physical punch, but Cap 'threw' the first tactical punch. And fluffed it. Cyclops is blinded by his belief in Hope and saving the mutant race, true. But Cap is blinded by his unshakeable belief that he knows best and people should jump when he says jump. He wants to save the planet, but his first act is to enrage the very people that would be hugely useful in helping by charging in like a moron.

We're on the exact same wavelength. A point that you marked out though which I forgot about is that not only has Cap done all of this, but he did it on Logan's word and Logan's word alone.

Sure, Wolverine's a good mate and can be trusted, but to essentially declare war (let's face it, that is what Cap did) on an entire island just off of the word of one man? Pah. He didn't even say to Scott, "Is it true? Do you house a girl who is theorised to be the next host of a cosmic entity with the potential to wipe us all out?" No. He jumped the ship, and paid the price.

Now, I just wanted to see Colossonaut smack Steve Rogers into the ground.

ok this is bull. i read schism, and it clearly demonstrated that cyclops is unstable, and has begun to loose his mind. additionally i see all these comments about how much cyclops had done and why he deserves the rights for all this. what he has done pales in comparison to cap. im sorry did cyclops fight off the nazi's, only to be frozen for years, woken up after everyone he knows is dead, and thrown back into fighting. didnt think so.

wolverine is wolverine, and is at this point more stable and reliable then cyclops his, his word is definitely good enough to allow cap to declare war on cyclops.

additionally hope isnt being arrested fro a crime she hasen't committed, she is being taken into protective custody to save the world and herself from the PF. in the end did cyclops even ask hope(this young innocent girl that cap is attempting to "take") what she wants in the end its not up to cyclops to decided the fate of a young girl, and the whole world to boot.

maybe cap didnt go about this in the best way, but cyclops is just been an immature child because he is not getting his way.

I'm glad Cyclops shot that star spangled chump. Rolling in with his goon squad like the SS. Not cool Steve, not cool.

@deadpoolwins:) said:

ok this is bull. i read schism, and it clearly demonstrated that cyclops is unstable, and has begun to loose his mind. additionally i see all these comments about how much cyclops had done and why he deserves the rights for all this. what he has done pales in comparison to cap. im sorry did cyclops fight off the nazi's, only to be frozen for years, woken up after everyone he knows is dead, and thrown back into fighting. didnt think so.

wolverine is wolverine, and is at this point more stable and reliable then cyclops his, his word is definitely good enough to allow cap to declare war on cyclops.

additionally hope isnt being arrested fro a crime she hasen't committed, she is being taken into protective custody to save the world and herself from the PF. in the end did cyclops even ask hope(this young innocent girl that cap is attempting to "take") what she wants in the end its not up to cyclops to decided the fate of a young girl, and the whole world to boot.

maybe cap didnt go about this in the best way, but cyclops is just been an immature child because he is not getting his way.

Lol. Okay.....

Paragraph 1 - Boo and indeed Hoo! A sad, but heroic past doesn't give anyone the right to act like a douche trying to implement a flawed plan. Cyclops may be unstable, but that don't mean that Cap can use this as an excuse to blunder in and be unreasonable too.

Paragraph 2 - Seriously, ONE man's assumptions (backed with no hard evidence supplied to Cap that Hope is definitely the PF host) is enough to start a war on an independent nation. Admit it, your real name is Donald Rumsfeld isn't it?

Paragraph 3 - No, she isn't being arrested as in Cap didn't say "I'm arresting Hope" But seriously, what Cap wants to do pretty much amounts to the same thing given that "protective custody" is a loose term that could mean lots of things from putting her up in a comfy hotel with freedom of movement, to 'hold' her in a heavily armed, maximum security off-world facility with the option of killing her if it is deemed the only way to stop the Phoenix Force. Plus the phrase has the word 'custody' in it, as in "we have the target in custody", as in "we've arrested the suspect".

Paragraph 4 - As is Cap, to a lesser extent admittedly.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that Cyclops is losing the plot and making wrong-headed decisions, but this shouldn't be used as an excuse for other people's stupidity and bad decisions (i.e Cap). For the record, I'm a fan of both the Avengers and the X-Men and am still on the fence as both sides have made bad decisions and mistakes.

@jcbart: Colossonaut has quite a few fights lined up. Looking forward to the Spidey and Rulk ones. Want spidey to win I think, but Rulk to get his ass kicked!

Seriously, Cyclops is losing it. I get he wants to save his kind, but the decisions should be Hopes, and Hopes alone. Cyclops is essentially forcing her to stay, when she clearly does not want to. Cyclops is simply one track right now; and that's not a good thing.

The reason why Cap showed up w/ Helicarrier full of people is simple, he knew that he was going into Utopia, where there are a majority of high powered mutants. Cap knew what he was going to request wasn't going to go over well, so he went in with back up. Like anyone w/ a brain would. Obviously he was right to do so, as Cyclops attacked him after hearing what he had to say. So yes, Cap was mearly doing what Cap does, planning ahead. He is supposed to be one of the best, if not the best strategic mind in the Marvel U, it would only make sense he would prepare for the possibility of a fight.

One thing is clear though, and that there is something going on with Summers. You could see it in Emma's face, even she knows something is wrong; and it's not good. I don't think this is going to play out like anyone believes. I think Summers is going to show why he is NOT fit to lead a team anymore. He is turning to totalitarian, and losing his principles in the process. It's all good to protect your kind, but when you are basically ruling with an iron fist, you have crossed a line.

@TheOlympian:

When did he demand they ARREST Hope? He never said there were arresting her for crimes she has yet to commit. He said they wanted to take her in for her own protection. I get it, she could be safe with the X-Men. The problem is though, that they (the X-Men) made it pretty clear they are all fine and good w/ the Phoenix Force coming to Earth. Cap and the Avengers are saying, NO. We are tasked with protecting the US and Earth from things like this, and we aren't taking that risk. They are saying, look it sucks you lost your powers guys, and that 90% of you were whiped out, but this Phoenix thing, it like to destroy worlds, so yeah, not taking the risk that it's your savior. Sorry. As far as I'm concerned that's not a risk you should be willing to take.

Yes, Cap showed up with a Helicarrier. Why? Because he's not stupid. he plans ahead. Just like when Cyk goes out he tends to bring some back up with him as well. I mean seriously, to think Captain America would go in blind is a bit idiotic. He was not being totalitarian, he was simply using that strategic mind he has, you know the one he got form the Super Soldier formula and what not. Part of being a good leader is planning ahead, and CLEARLY he was right to do so. If he just showed up and was like, hey guys f you I do what I want w/ a helicarrier full of Avengers and nothing happened okay, he would be a dick; but something DID HAPPEN. Lucky for him he had back up huh? But he's in the wrong for going into what he knew, at that time, would be hostile territory with some backup, sure.

Either way though, it doesn't matter what Summers or Rogers want, what matters is what Hope wants, and clearly neither of them care about that one bit. Hence they are both wrong. It's not for them to decide what another human, doesn't matter if she's a mutant, she is a human as well, want her to do, what matters is what she wants. And if she wants to leave, fine. If she wants to stay fine. But no one has really given her a choice, and that I guarantee is going to be a MAJOR crux of all of this. Key word in this series, CHOICE.

what the f is cap going to do if/when he gets his hands on Hope anyway?

Hmm...I don't like how Cap made his decision base of "one" mutant instead of actually researching or asking people with experience which is Scott or Storm. I also find it fun how everybody so easily believe wolverine. I mean if you actually think about it he the last person you ask. I mean this is the same guy who wanted to gut the scarlet witch without even allow her to explain herself. The same person who killed his team mate (Northstar, threaten Hope, Wiccian, and others who got in his way. My I also add that he divided the mutant race between him and Cyke...At the most retarded time possible. Now add the fact he don't like hope or Ckye and that to me seem a little too bias. If anything Cap should had a conference with Scott, Beast, or someone else instead believe logan just of hearsay.

I have always felt Marvel has always kinda down played the mutants. The X-Men are kinda second fiddle to the Avengers. Mutants in general are looked down upon, not just within the comics but also by writers. Any of the uber powerful guys have left or been written off. The X-Men have no Thor or Hulk. And to top it off the whole depowering thing was kinda lame. Mutants are supposed to be the next stage in evolution. Why are they so weak compared to other superheroes? 
 
Thats why it kinda pisses me off that, Captain America goes in there and tries to punk Scott. Im glad Scott shot at him. I say it's time the mutants win one. Let them take down the Avengers, Thor included. (I know, treasonous speak on here)