Off My Mind: The Importance of the Joker to Batman's Character

without out the joker batman would be less intresting hes the most complex villan fighting the most complex hero

Joker is iconic and really embodies chaos-evil but i never have been attatched to him or considered him as interesting untill the Dark Night film. That was a great rendering of the Joker. Joker is fadeing outside of Detective Comics, and video games as i believe he is just not anything unless their's batman there. Which is fine but i enjoy batman most when the joker isn't even referenced.

What if Batman never existed?  Where would Joker be?

Batman is a detective above all else. He will not destroy what he can't understand and Joker is the culmination of that. The Joker knows this and he knows that if he loses the game and kills him, he will have proven his point and won (ruined Batman). At the same moment, Batman's sane crazyness and unwillingness to compromise to the Joker's ideology is like an itch in his otherwise blissful insanity. They want to understand each other, but don't want to jump over to each other's territory. To the Joker it's like a theatre stage of absurdity where he constantly heckles the audience while Batman tries to write more scripts so that the play might ultimately make sense. Batman has to convince himself every day that there is a point to not ending the Joker once and for all and that thought is both rational and terrible.

I think it's also the fact that Joker is human and stays alive in a world filled with the likes of Superman that adds to him being such a fascinating character. I think the story where Joker poisons Lois Lane to fool Superman into killing him needlessly shows perfectly that even Superman has a certain fear for this particular clown. Because he is completely unpredictable, it doesn't matter if you can shoot lasers out of your eyes or crush you with your fingertips. Because by that time he has either gone to plan B to prevent that or knows that even in death he'll win.

@Croaker: Very good points, and it's true that he is very intimidating, that works very well against the average criminal.

However, against someone like the Joker, it doesn't work. Because he is insane he don't fear him and he will kill again and again. And sending him to Arkham doesn't work either because he always manage to escape.

What I can't understand is why nobody killed the Joker, because as much as I like him it's just not credible that in a world like the DC Universe, with people like Wonder Woman, Midnighter, Apollo... who can kill if necessary, the Joker is still alive.

I really think that Batman is insane. Sure he's dressed up as a giant bat and is training a bunch of kids to fight crime, but that's not the point: The definition of insanity isdoing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. (well, not the real definition but it illustrates my point)

Batman isn't about fighting. He's about changing. He's about setting an example that an urban legend bogeyman sees your crime, hunts you down, but does not give you the salvation of death. It's a lot more intimidating when a guy dressed up like a bat punches you once. Because then you'll know he'll do worse if he ever catches up with you again.

Besides, if he were to cross the line, Superman would be the first one to bring him down. If Supes failes, then it'll be Dick. And I really doubt Dick would fail.

@allison_scag said:

The Joker represent to Batman what he can become if he ever stepped the boundaries of his code and became a murderer.

I don't think it's true. If Batman became a murderer he would probably be like Jason Todd, killing criminals and saving innocent lives in the process.

I agree that the Joker is an interesting vilain, and batman is one my favorite superhero but the fact that he don't won't to kill him always troubled me. I mean, Joker killed his adopted son (Jason Todd), tortured and paralyzed Barbara Gordon and probably killed thousands of people in horrible ways. For me, Batman is way more insane than the Joker, he has no excuse for letting him live after all he did (he killed his son, god***it) and because of that a lot more of people will die.

@Pokeysteve said:

I always thought Bob Kane created Joker.

That sort of thing happens. One might also reasonably ask if Bill Finger should be mentioned before Bob Kane as the creator of Batman.

Both are alive mainly because they don't understand each other, but know that there is a thin line between being like the other. They constantly challenge each other until the other one succumbs to the other's ideology or everyone in the world is sane. Or dead.

this was great (: i love the joker. he is my all time favorite villian <3

Joker is Batman's antithesis. Without the Joker, Batman would lose his prominence, his importance. The Joker is completely unpredictable and that's what makes him such an important character. While Ra's would be close to being Bats' most important villain, he isn't unpredictable, and frankly, isn't insane. The Joker's existence makes Batman contemplate his own, deepening his own character just as much as the Clown Prince of Crime.

Batman, wont kill the joker, Because he can't, and the Joker wont kill batman, because he needs batman

Batman without Joker =

Hello G-Man! I really like this article you wrote about Joker.

I'd love to ask for your permission to translate it into Chinese in order to introduce Batman and Joker to my friends in China.

Hope you can allow me to do it:) Thx very much!

@Silver Knight75: that's right but i'll add the Riddler

The Joker represent to Batman what he can become if he ever stepped the boundaries of his code and became a murderer.

Without Joker, we wouldn't have Harley Quinn (the animated version, not the comics one). That would make me sad.

I still remember her first episode (Joker's Favour) and when Batman captures her. She says, "Oye, beauty school's lookin' pretty good right now." 8 )

ive always said that main arch-villains are just as important as their heroes when it comes to saving the world, and joker has to be the best example. after all how many times has batman saved the world from aliens or other villains, just anything that doesn't have to do with the joker.

now ask yourself, if batman hadn't been fighting joker all these years, would he really have been strong enough, smart enough, or determined enough to succeed all those times when it seemed that defeat was assured? probably not.

so joker may be a homicidal maniac who's killed thousands, but by this logic he's actually SAVED BILLIONS.

all that time being an unpredictable killing machine with a sole focus on batman has made joker into the best sparring partner batman ever had. and do you think its penguin that keeps batman ready at a moments notice? heck no, thats jokers job, and who keep's batman from ever killing anyone? why joker and his constant pestering of course! without joker as a constant reminder of what batman had to lose, and nothing makes you more defiant than someone always telling you no.

i wonder if this is one of the reasons why batman is so reluctant to make any more permanent solutions to the joker and other villains.if he knows that the world often rests on his shoulders, and the only way he could be prepared when an extra-terrestrial or alternate dimension threat comes along is to be in a constant war with supervillains, because the slightest hint of going soft could spell doom for entire country's, worlds, or even universes. i wonder if he knows this, but doesn't want to admit it, if this is one of the reasons why he's so adamant of having someone to replace him (hence all the robins, batgirls, and batman inc.) .

Joker's incredible. He's so different and so perfect because he defies all logic and all norms for villains. You can't predict or make another of him b/c there's no pattern :-) In-genius!

Joker is indeed a great villain, definitely one of the greatest pop culture has ever had. Without him Batman really wouldn't be who he is. Other Villains such as Riddler, Scarecrow, and Mr. Freeze, although great villains, have patterns and at this point, even the low rent cops in GCPD know them. Joker, however does not have a set method, or a pattern. I've never been convinced that Joker is insane, I believe he's a guy who just wants a laugh and has a VERY different sense of humor than most people. That's why he's unpredictable, who want's to tell the same joke over and over.

If good exists its polar opposite must exist for Batman its the Joker also what makes a good hero is good main villain and Joker is just a man for the job.He plays such big role on Batmans character so many things his done to Dark Knight which makes him the man he is today Jasons death,Barbaras paralyzation and many other things.

Joker is what makes Batman the hero he is today he is a perfect villain his a devil in mans form so many good stories wouldnt have beeen written unless it would be for the Joker.

@Silver Knight75: ik i was making a Joke ;D actually i think it might be Scare Crow Two Face area so it could circle more around corruption and hatred while going into mental states and fear

Batman I believe would have been softened in his superhero career had the Joker died off too early or had never been a part of the crusade to begin with. Its doubtful to say how he could have conditioned himself without the Joker, but its clear that this adversary is one of the most popular enemies ever to be written comics and in print media in general. Hell, he is arguably one of the greatest supervillains of any medium and has stood the test of time in showing himself to be the very epitome of the villainous bad@$$. Heroes are only so good as their villains, and as Ledger-Joker said to Bale-Batman in the Dark Knight..."you complete me." So very true...

Batman can't cross that line and he would also try to preserve Joker's life if it was in danger

Like in The Joker: Devil's Advocate, that comic taught me what justice really means

:)

@The Stegman said:

THE JOKER, the scariest freakin villain around.

Early "Dark Knight" Film Concept

Yep. He sure is.

@TheCheeseStabber: I disagree and would think either Ra's Al Ghul or Hugo Strange would be up for greatest enemies after Joker

If the Joker had died in the 1st issue the Batmans Number 1 villain would be Calendar Man ;D

batman and the joker  are tragedy and chaos 
same thing with superman and lex luthor.

Great article. :D and that dark knight concept pic, was... whoa. Very spooky. Almost too spooky. The empty dead eyes do it.

Batman needed the Joker. If Batman was the light of Gotham (go with it people) then Joker was his dark shadow.

I totally agree without The Joker there wouldn't be a Batman The over the years have become more than just a mainstay in comics and other media but an icon. What I would like to see is an a cross origin story between Batman and and The Joker showing the importance of their rivalry.

mark hamill and heath ledger were some of the best things to happen to the joker, and batman.

Batman is not the same without the joker.

@CrimsonTempest: You literally said everything that I was about to say :p

The Joker his the Yin to the Batman's Bata-yang (Ha ha), You can't have one with out the other, or the universe will explode or implode.

There is no doubt that Joker is the Greatest nemesis of Batman. In fact, after playing the Batman games, it showed me the importance of Joker once again .

As it has been said '' A man is defined by the quality of their enemies '' and by God Joker defined Batman.

At the end of Arkham City, Joker actually dies, along with Hugo Strange and Talia ( but she can always come back with Lazarus pit ) It was an impactful moment and made me wonder what will happen if they want to continue on this and how they can top this off.

Joker is a great inversion of Batman because he calls to light a core problem with Batman's character: he's incredible serious all the time while running around in his pants dressed like a bat. He's such a straight-laced badass but with this odd twist that putting Batman in unusual situations is hilarious almost in and of itself. Various webcomics have put out some gems.

Joker is someone who is terrifying but also gets the joke. He's perfect. They complement each other so well that this is what makes them inseparable, but it doesn't really matter who came first. They are both better at what they are because of each other.

The Joker truly is a great villain, and in the hands of a capable writer, is the best at exposing the flaws and strengths of Batman's mission. Jerry Robinson left the world a great character.

One of the many things this website does and has done is keep you thinking and at times alter your opinion of some characters. Changes in where they stand as a hero or villain; how powerful the character is; or in this case--the importance of characters that have stood through the test of time.

Joker has always had Batman's number. He's still out there. I don't read Detective Comics, but I have a friend that does. I'm not sure what is going on with Joker at this point but it sounded weird. That aside, he's still standing and Batman still doesn't know what Joker is going to do. Now granted, Bats knows his all of his rogues but Joker is the one that he has to go to a special place for mentally. Some villains Batman preps for physically, some mentally, but Joker always hammers Bats with both equally some how. I definitely agree with this article 100%. I just wish DC would spread him out more. Give Joker to Lobdell in one of his books, all I'm saying.

I think Batman has a big enough and healthy enough rogues gallery that the removal of the Joker wouldn't be a deathblow. Now, that being said, it would certainly be a immeasurable loss. Without the Joker as Bruce's arch nemesis I could easily see R'as filling that role. I've also always thought of Bane as an excellent perversion/inversion of Batman and all he represents as well. All of Bruce's rogues represent a different aspect of the character and in concert I think each could carry some of the weight that the Joker's absence would've created.

If the Joker had died in his first appearance imagine how happy the Gordons would be. The only reason Joker is Batman's #1 is because he doesn't have it in him to get rid of him permanently. Not necessarily killing him either. You'd think after the first thousand murders the genius would have thought of something.

I always thought Bob Kane created Joker. I wonder what it was like for Robinson to see his creation grow and evolve over the years. Must have been amazing.

Joker is essential. No villain in the history of comics has been so effective at fleshing out his nemesis' character while enhancing his own. The Clown Prince of Crime is the end-all be-all villain that we want all other villains to be like. Plus, he has given many adults around the world an irrational fear of clowns.

If there was no Joker... hrm.. then I think Batman wouldn't have found a true nemesis long enough to keep his title selling as strongly as it did. He'd probably have ended up like poor Martian Manhunter, an incredibly rich character that people like and want to read about because of his history, but one that couldn't seem to carry a solo series as well and ends up being defined by the ensemble casts he's a part of.

THE JOKER, the scariest freakin villain around.

Early "Dark Knight" Film Concept

the joker is batman's opposite

he had a bad thing happen to him, he thought that made life meaningless

batman lost his parents, made sure it never happened to anyone else

It's sad to see the creator of the Joker pass. I really didn't know that the Joker was suppose to die in the debut issue. I just know that DC Comics is looking back and say that it was a great idea. A great article.

@CrimsonTempest said:

I don't think Batman would BE Batman if Joker were to indeed die way back then. In many ways, Joker defines Batman in not just stories, but in merchandise as well. Would The Dark Knight be as big of a hit if there was no Joker? Would Arkham Asylum, Arkham City, Mark Hamill's career after Star Wars, anything that Joker has been involved in, be just as good as it is now? Regretfully, no. With that said, Joker is too invaluable to kill off. Rest in peace, Jerry Robinson.

There are characters who, since their 1st appearance, just wouldn't be the same if they weren't around! The Joker is the BEST Example. He's the reason batman fights his fight. If he died, then what would become of Batman? & Vice versa! They need each other to be what makes them who they are!!!!!!!

@pspin:

Batman has dealt with ruthless psychopaths before so it shouldn't be something new. what separates joker from the rest is his insanity fused with an unbelievable sickening brilliance and his unhealthy obsession with Batman.

The Joker pushes Batman to his limits and he is also the one man that can push Batman over the edge.

The good ol' crazy creepiest Joker!