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Off My Mind: The Death of Spider-Man vs. the Death of Superman

There have been many deaths in comics and Ultimate Spider-Man is the latest to perish. Was his death worthy and how does it compare to certain another hero dressed in red and blue?

Unless you've managed to avoid any media related to comic books, you already know about the story running through the pages of Ultimate Spider-Man. Months before the arc even started, issues were marked as a prelude to the arc. On Tuesday, Marvel issued a press release on the final part of the story in issue #160 and USA Today even ran a spoiler showing a key scene on the second to last page.

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We have read many death issues over the years. Lately we've been getting more and more. It would be easy to dismiss the Death of Spider-Man arc as just another death issue but it actually was more than just about the death of a character. Brian Michael Bendis did a superb job in conveying the fact that Peter Parker was a teenage hero.

As Marvel's most iconic character (even if this was the Ultimate Universe version and not the regular 616 version), let's take a look at how this death story arc compares to DC's most iconic character's death, Superman. Be warned, there will indeed be some spoilers below.

== TEASER ==
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There are actually many parallels between the death of Spider-Man and the death of Superman. Superman was a hero of the city of Metropolis. A savage and powerful beast (Doomsday) was unleashing terror and violence across the city. Superman's allies were no match for Doomsday. Superman fought Doomsday to a standstill and it was his final blow that killed the beast. That final fatal blow used up all the energy and life Superman had and he died in Lois Lane's arms.

Spider-Man's death has many similarities. The difference is, Spider-Man's is actually better handled. Where Superman was saving the city, Spider-Man's fight was focused more on his actual neighborhood. That gave it a more personal feel. Norman Osborn in the Ultimate Universe is a deadly beast similar to Doomsday, only with more intelligence and control. Spider-Man had some allies present (Johnny Storm and Bobby Drake) but they weren't able to help him. As for what caused Spider-Man's final moment...I won't spoil everything. But you may have seen that panel from USA Today (up above) and have an idea.

One area this story fell flat was the inclusion of the Ultimates. In recent issues, it was decided that Spider-Man had to be properly trained as a hero. He had a (poor) training session with Iron Man and one with Captain America. It was later in saving Captain America from a bullet the Punisher shot that caused Spider-Man to be injured. It wasn't a normal bullet and Spider-Man had to fight the Sinister Six right after being shot. There was some confusion after the shot and Spider-Man and the Ultimates were separated. The problem is, the Ultimates knew Osborn had escaped and knew that Spider-Man was injured. They might have been dealing with Nick Fury and the Avengers but it didn't make sense that not even a single member could be spared to find, locate and protect Spider-Man from Norman Osborn and the Sinister Six.

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What's next for Spider-Man? Can he come back from the dead?

In comic books, we know that pretty much everyone can come back from the dead. When the Human Torch died in the pages of Fantastic Four #587, everyone feels it's only a matter of time until he returns. Things are different in the Ultimate Universe. We have seen many deaths during the Ultimatum storyline so there is that possibility that Spider-Man will remain dead.

How can Marvel kill off the lead character in their biggest Ultimate Comics title? We know a new Spider-Man will surface. After Superman died, we had the Reign of the Supermen and saw four new characters. I don't think we will be getting four Spider-Mans (or should I say Spider-Men?). We've seen the Ultimate Universe of the Clone Saga and Marvel will most likely stay away from clones.

Superman was able to return from the dead because of his Kryptonian physiology. Spider-Man doesn't have that luxury. This just may be the actual death of Spider-Man in the Ultimate Universe. I may not have loved the final moments but I did enjoy the entire arc. It would be difficult to bring Spider-Man back from the dead and if they did come up with an acceptable solution, there are other repercussions such as Peter's entire neighborhood knowing his identity.

Who will be the new Spider-Man?
Who will be the new Spider-Man?

Ultimate Spider-Man dealt with a teenage boy that was doing everything he could to be a hero. This arc showed how far he was willing to go. Despite being seriously wounded, he never gave up. Superman was accepted as a hero before he died and didn't really need to prove to anyone that he was one. Spider-Man went above and beyond what his duties were. It was a noble death.

I loved the character but I can't see how bringing him back would not tarnish this story. If other major characters like Wolverine and Professor X can die in the Ultimate Universe, why can't Spider-Man. Let him rest in peace. We will have a new Spider-Man soon and there will be even more opportunities to tell new stories than there have been in the 160 issues we've had of Ultimate Spider-Man.

Superman might be a bigger, stronger and more iconic character but this Spider-Man had a better and more noble death.

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greenlantern65

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Edited By greenlantern65

The only alternate marvel universe I've ever given a crap about is the Spider-Girl/A-Next universe.  And that's gone now.  Ultimate Spidey is dead? meh, I could care-a-less.
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deactivated-5a4e0e8ea3dfb

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@G-Man
  
The only reason I would rate the Death of Superman slightly higher than this arc is not because of the writing but because it was so sudden. When Doomsday was introduced everybody thought he was just going to be another villain. Yeah he took out the Justice League and gave Superman a hard time but everyone expected him (Superman) to come out on top. BUT THEN HE DIED. Nobody was expecting that and it made it so much more powerful. Along the same line, Supergirl dying at the hands of the Anti-Monitor to save Superman. In that sense there was a slight leak a character would die but not who. 
 
But the Death of Spider-Man has been known so months now. It has no surprise. If anything people got a nice grin on their face that Marvel actually went through with it and it wasn't a cheap trick to spark sales. 
 
But when Superman was killed in the comics just about the entire world was shocked, including non-comic book readers. Heck, just about every paper and news agency in the world ran a story about it. 
 
As for where the series will go from here......personally I'd like to see that strange future Spider-Man clone they've got locked up at S.H.I.E.L.D be the one in the black and red. If I remember right the guys a clone of Peter and Prof. X and is supposed to be a bit unstable mentally. So that would definitely bring some interesting character switch to the title especially if a) he's taking orders from S.H.I.E.L.D. and b) he begins to gain real emotions and memories by interacting with Peter's supporting cast. 
 
But in the end I would like to see Peter come back because there needs to be some sort of silver lining to this story. No matter which version we talk about, Spider-Man is always getting beat down. Marvel has never let that guy catch a break. In the 616 universe there's always been that one thing or quick twist to at least let Peter keep on going. The Ultimate version hasn't really had moment yet and this would be a golden opportunity for it. Would really like to see Bendis and Millar try their hand at "The Other" concept that was quickly retracted by Marvel. Personally I thought the metamorphosis and power boost 616 Peter received was a well timed step-up for the character as events led into Civil War and Secret Invasion. Doing the same thing here would be along those same lines but more a personal step than a series one. This arc showed the type of hero Peter is and just how much he's matured since this series began. Making him go through a similar metamorphosis to "The Other" on his way to returning would compliment the mental maturity he's displayed by the physical maturity of his powers. 
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Sammo21

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Edited By Sammo21

I don't care for anything involving Ultimate comics anymore so its really not a matter to me. I think the stuff done in ultimates and avengers is pretty terrible, including the art.

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Timandm

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Edited By Timandm
@Nova`Prime` said:
@Timandm: Uncle Ben, Captain Marvel, Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), The Question (Vic Sage)
DEFINITELY Uncle Ben.  There's a saying that Uncle Ben is the ONLY marvel character to actually stay dead...
 
But NOT Captain Marvel.  He came back during Civil War; remember?  He just HAPPENED to be floating around the negative zone and came across prison 42 as it was being constructed... He even became the warden...  After Civil War, he even met his son who he didn't know about...
 
Vic Sage - The Question.  I haven't read his comics but I LOVED him in the J.L.A series... I wanted him to have his own series!
 
Okay, so we now have TWO significant characters in the Marvel or DC universe that have died and stayed dead... TWO...   Does that not just seem odd?
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Timandm

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Edited By Timandm
@webling: Okay, Ted Kord, the second blue beetle.   Thanks for answering
 
So, so far we have:
 
Uncle Ben
The Question - Vic Sage
Blue Beetle - Ted Kord
 
So far those are the ONLY THREE significant Marvel or DC characters that have died and STAYED dead....
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crazed_h3ro

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Edited By crazed_h3ro

I was at the edge of my set reading this issue,in every panel I was like "is he going to die here, or here" It was very intense, and his death was very sad to read but very noble.I am seriously dieing to know who will be the new Spidey.

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goldenkey

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Edited By goldenkey

MORE NOBEL DEATH THEN SUPERMAN?!?!?!   I would not say that at all.  What's more nobel then sacrificing yourself in the wake of something that could destroy a whole planet?  Doomsday seemed unbeatable at the time.  He took out a ton of hero's that were fighting him AND Superman at the time.  The destruction was imense.  What was the Goblin going to do.  There are any number of hero's that could beat him?  He's no were near the threat that Doomsday was, and they both went out the same way saving others, only Superman threat was on a much larger scale.  Both stories were good.  In the beginning of Death of Superman he was also on a talk show being drilled for being a little soft and called the boy scout, but proved that when it came down to it he would kill his enemy like he thought he did with that last hit on Doomsday that coincided with Doomsday killing him as well.  Plus Superman was the beginning of hero's dying and being resurrected.  When a hero died he stayed dead.  Superman started the whole coming back phase.  So far in the Ultimate U they don't do that.  I don't think Marvel wants to bring hero's back after a deat either in that Universe.  It's one of the original things they want to stick by...............for the time being................Wolverine does not need to come back, he's replaced by a blonde kid of his with the same powers, and his kid is young.  Hopefully he won't age either and will stay young.  So much potential.  So much room yet for new villains and hero's.  I don't think Spidey will be back as long as Bendis stays on the Spider-man title. 
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Dracade102

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Edited By Dracade102
@Timandm said:
@webling: Okay, Ted Kord, the second blue beetle.   Thanks for answering So, so far we have:  Uncle Ben The Question - Vic Sage Blue Beetle - Ted Kord  So far those are the ONLY THREE significant Marvel or DC characters that have died and STAYED dead....
Actually... (Depending on how specifically significant you would call these characters) These guys have managed to stay dead (And un-dead, too):

Baron Heinrich Zemo, 
Obadiah Stane, 
Alexander Luthor Junior, 
Roger Hayden (Psycho-Pirate), 
Adolf Hitler's clone (Hate Monger), 
& Roderick Kingsley (so far he's still dead), 
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goldenkey

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Edited By goldenkey

I'm laughing at the statements that people are making about how Ultimate Spider-mans death does not count.  BULLSHIT!!!!!  That's something for someone to say that does not read the Ultimate Spider-man title, because for the past few years, that's the title that the people prefer.  The ones that read both 616 Spider-man and the ultimate one.  At least that's the title that they prefer to read, not which universes character.  It still counts.  Most of us that have been reading the title have been reading it since the beginning, and invested a lot of time, money, and praise into the Ult. SM.  10 years is a long time.  Look how many titles have come and gone since then or have been completely altered.  Ult. SM has had the same writer, and stayed true to it's core.   It's been fun, it's been great, and even tho we knew so much about the character already it's been original.  I don't read the 616 Spider-man anymore.  I haven't since around the clone saga with the exception of a few story arch here and there, but for the most part I think the 616 SM sucks donkey dick compared to the Ult. S.M.  When has a book been this strong, this solid since Claremonts long run on Uncanny X-Men?  A couple maybe,  but only a handful.  Look what happened when Claremont left, the title, that was number 1 for so long has had so many ups and downs that it lost a lot of readers.  I have left that book and came back a couple times already.  Ultimate Spider-Man is the only book that I have not left at some point the whole time I've been reading comics, and I began to read in 1988.  I just realized that now.  Im actually excited for the future of Ult. Spider-man because Bendis is staying on and if there is one thing that man does well make a looong game plan and stick to it.  Even when it doesn't make sense it will at the end of what ever arch he's writing.  Few writers can do that well.  Morrison, Johns, Millar when he sticks to something, and Bendis.  There are others sure, but these guys do it best.  Plus with all the little, you're going to be the best when you're older, and him joining S.H.E.I.L.D. I don't think he's dead,  I think he's going to be hidden. 
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Nova`Prime`

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Edited By Nova`Prime`
@Timandm: That wasn't Captain Marvel, it was Khn'nr, a Skrull imposter that the Skrulls had made into thinking he was Captain Marvel to use his name and make it seem like he was back from the dead and supporting the Skrull take over of Earth, it just backfired on them and he took it seriously.
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Timandm

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Edited By Timandm
@Dracade102 said:
@Timandm said:
@webling: Okay, Ted Kord, the second blue beetle.   Thanks for answering So, so far we have:  Uncle Ben The Question - Vic Sage Blue Beetle - Ted Kord  So far those are the ONLY THREE significant Marvel or DC characters that have died and STAYED dead....
Actually... (Depending on how specifically significant you would call these characters) These guys have managed to stay dead (And un-dead, too):Baron Heinrich Zemo, Obadiah Stane, Alexander Luthor Junior, Roger Hayden (Psycho-Pirate), Adolf Hitler's clone (Hate Monger), & Roderick Kingsley (so far he's still dead), 
That brings up two good points:
 
1: Does "undead" really count as "not dead" in the comic book universe.  I'd have to say no, because they are characters actively participating in the course of events.  Consider Jubilee of the X-Men.  She's a vampire now...  She's "undead" but she's still a part of the story... So I'd count that as alive...  By dead and "stayed dead" I mean they DIED and and haven't come back at all!  (although, appearances in Elysium would be okay...)
 
2: Significant - How do we define which characters are significant... What I initially meant was basically a popular and well known character...  Spider_man, Hulk, Super Man, Batman, etc... But I think we could be flexible on this one...
I think I'll actually start a thread on this...  Perhaps, with the help of everyone in Comic Vine we could come up with a decent list of    "Characters who died and stayed dead" verses "Characters who died and came back..."
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Timandm

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Edited By Timandm
@Nova`Prime` said:
@Timandm: That wasn't Captain Marvel, it was Khn'nr, a Skrull imposter that the Skrulls had made into thinking he was Captain Marvel to use his name and make it seem like he was back from the dead and supporting the Skrull take over of Earth, it just backfired on them and he took it seriously.
Really?!?!?!  LOL!   Okay, then you're right and I stand corrected.  Preciate that.
 
I need to go back and read the Secret Invasion.  It would be in there, yes?  I'm actually glad to hear that.  I was so disappointed when they brought Captain Marvel back (or so I thought) because his death was such a significant event in the Marvel Universe (at the time.  It even had it's own issue) and I like how Marvel treated his death with dignity and a sort of seriousness by NOT retconning it into a ridiculous situation in which it was a clone, or a space god regenerated him.
 
I think I'm going to start a thread and get people to help make a list of Characters that have died and stayed dead... I'd really like to see how many are on that list...
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mrzero1982pt2

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Edited By mrzero1982pt2

marvel kinda spoiled it for me by the usa today article. just not interested. is that wrong? 

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NightFang3

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Edited By NightFang3

Great Article. 

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sa5m

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Edited By sa5m

I like the second 1 better

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justafan

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Edited By justafan

that spiderman costume is really cool

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BlackRoseTessa

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Edited By BlackRoseTessa

i love the  new costume , looks cool
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Nova`Prime`

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Edited By Nova`Prime`
@Timandm: Not a problem, but you're original point is still valid, there is barely a handful of major characters that have stayed dead compared to the amount of characters who have died only to return.
 
Oh and yeah it was in Secret Invasion, I just don't remember which ones or if it was in the Captain Marvel mini at the same time.
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Lorialet

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Edited By Lorialet

I found the death of Ultimate Spider-man much more tragic than that of Superman. Spider-man was just a teenager, and probably the only genuine hero of the Ultimate universe, where most superheroes are more anti-heroes than anything. It's like the last light light just went out in a particulary dark world. 
He died because SHIELD lied about Osborn's death and then let him escape, he died because he took a bullet to save a Captain America who didn't even beleive in him, he died because the guys because of whom he was injured didn't care about him and left him bleeding without even checking if he was still alive.
Superman didn't go fight Doomsday alone, although only he could stand toe to toe with the monster, and his death left dozen of other heroes, some of whom were willing to continue his legacy.

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nftw

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Edited By nftw
@ArtisticNeedham: pick up all of them or wait for the tpb you really need only need u.c.sm 157-160 and u.a.v.n.u. 3  
@Duo_forbidden: Stacy only cam back in the same way that Kitty Pride came back... they left for what ever reason then returned
 
 @ninjadude853 : what about the punisher he was damn near tears when he saw that he shot peter, let alone peter being dead... my money is on the punisher "punishing"/killing  himself.
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MrCipher

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Edited By MrCipher

Before everyone gets all nuts about this:
1. It's been stated in this thread that very few if any comicbook characters seem to stay dead.
2. the "creative minds" behind the Ultimates figured it was OK to offer this:

No Caption Provided
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
LITERAL headlights on this version of Thor. Ummmm...what the hell?
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Timandm

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Edited By Timandm
@webling: I just found out that Ted Kord does not qualify as died and stayed dead...  He came back in Blackest Night....
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Edited By Aquamariner


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HalfGod

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Edited By HalfGod

This picture brings a tear to my eyes
This picture brings a tear to my eyes
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Roninidas

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Edited By Roninidas
@HalfGod
I know.  I love the one with the line that has Uncle Ben telling him, "You done good kid."  I mean that was just an awesome way to end young Peter Parker's tenure as Spider-man. 
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EganTheVile1

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Edited By EganTheVile1

I am seriously convinced one of two things is true: 
Either Marvel is transitioning out of the Ultimate Universe and these deaths really won't matter much soon. 
OR 
The Ultimate writers are idiots who have no consideration for the fans and killing off major character after major character and giving a huge middle finger to the reader does not bother them that much in the name of being edgy.

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mufabacode

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Edited By mufabacode

I think there's a Spidey, hiding somewhere, waiting for his cue to come out and fight the hell out of the bad guys... He will be different... He will be mean, savage, with a new costume, and, mainly, a new thinking... Something like a Spider-Man NOIR. Maybe worst. A little older than he was. But surely bitter and angry. A psycho-Spidey? Maybe. A creepy, Hulkling beast crawling amongst the bad guys as he never been before. A man with no life. A Hero with a silent cause. Solitary. The Lone Spider shooting killing web or why not new kind of inner-arms produced by his own new super-powerful body with his adrenaline acting like a propulsing death bio-machine? And this time, killing like hell, spreading fear and terror over the villains! A resurrection not to be. But already done. Not the resurrection of Spider-Man, the poor and fragile teen-ager... But the resurrection of the MAN-SPIDER... a thousand time more dangerous and powerful than Venom or Carnage... Craps!
- Yves-Roch Mallette - aka MUFABACODE

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sergyanime

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Edited By sergyanime

Here is my problem it's in the ultimate universe.  Dead meaning dead might seem cool to long time comic book fans but losing iconic characters hurts the interest. If i was just getting into comics or relatively new I pick up this new spiderman book I would be in shock that its not peter parker and be confused and most likely turned off when peter parker is so many 616 books. I am glad he had a nobel death and it's good that the dead stay dead but people that big dieing sucks and hurts a series. Fans are fans because the characters not the powers. 

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blackkitty

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Edited By blackkitty

The Death of Superman actually came as a surprise to me and thus felt more real. Ther Death of Spider-Man has been advertised for so long it was expected and thus the impact was gone. Also, I just don't treat it as real. I think everyone expects it won't last so, there's nothing to worry about.

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CATPANEXE

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Edited By CATPANEXE

when it comes to killing characters, there's no bigger an expert than Bendis! ;)

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Skaddix

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Edited By Skaddix

Well Cap, Punisher, Fury and a few grunts were the only ones who saw. But seeing as Fury and Punisher were in custody and had bigger fish to fry. Cap is the one who gets all the blame.

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Rancoras

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Edited By Rancoras

@Timandm 
Ultimate Wolverine is still dead as far as I know along with everyone else who died during Ultimatum.  Granted, that wasn't that long ago.

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torian

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Edited By torian

@Timandm

Ben Reilly has been dead for about fifteen years

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Eet Mor Puppee

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Edited By Eet Mor Puppee
@MrCipher:  Dude, that's Ultimate Valkyrie.
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Zaber

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Edited By Zaber

wow spidey died. who's next?

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allstarchild

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Edited By allstarchild

they killed old Spider-man for NEW spider-man????
 
ahhhhhhh that's really suck.

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sweatboy

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Edited By sweatboy
@blackkitty said:
The Death of Superman actually came as a surprise to me and thus felt more real. Ther Death of Spider-Man has been advertised for so long it was expected and thus the impact was gone. Also, I just don't treat it as real. I think everyone expects it won't last so, there's nothing to worry about.
gotta agree with that. back in the day (apparently) the big issue was Superman was too invincible and would always win a fight despite coming to a "close match", (i mean come on it's SUPERMAN, we know he's gonna win) until that is, when he fought Doomsday. and the way it was dramatized, with one issue full of 4 panel fights, followed by 2 panel fights and finally one panel fights per page,... i guess Death of Superman was when they actually introduced the concept of comic deaths, despite the fact that Crisis happened earlier
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preposterous_hypothesis

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Just read it last night along with fallout, it sure did pull at the ol heart strings. Caps a dick.

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Cervantes

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Edited By Cervantes

@Timandm: Totally agree. For reasons of copyright, a name has to make an appearance every so many years or they lose the copyright to the character. Still, they could just show the character in flashbacks to show us their significance in the lives and decisions of the living -- BUT this is the easier approach; bit I think "sometimes... dead is better."

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Timandm

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Edited By Timandm

@Cervantes: Well said....

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deactivated-60d8e8271946e

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Death of Superman made the news.

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spiderfan2099

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Edited By spiderfan2099

bump

i love the way they did it, peter really did get a noble end but nostalgia makes me sad and pissed that they killed him off, i've been so attached to the character since day 1 of reading spider-man. ultimate spidey was one of my favourite universes and i'm bummed to see him go

i don't know how much i'll like the new "ultimate comics: spider-man" with miles morales

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Mysterioz

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Edited By Mysterioz

Spider man died? D:

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Mercy_

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Edited By Mercy_

@Mysterioz: In the Ultimate universe.

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