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Off My Mind: How Far Should Green Arrow Go For Justice?

What happens when a hero kills?



Have you read Justice League: Cry For Justice #7 yet? As you may know, the villain Prometheus caused a bit of havoc. Roy Harper lost his arm and besides the death of a bunch of people in Star City, there was also the death of a character that we all know. By now, it's most likely not a secret that Green Arrow served his own brand of justice at the end. The question is, how far should the Justice League go in delivering 'justice'?
 
This may fall in that area of characters undergoing radical changes in who they are. Villains may do vile things, but where should the line be drawn in bringing them to justice? You take a character like the Punisher, I don't know if many would call him a hero but he never set out to be one. A character like Green Arrow has been a hero. What can we call him now? What will the rest of the Justice League think when they discover what he's done? If a former hero crosses the line of killing, is it possible to go back? Dead is dead (well, maybe not in comics but you know what I mean). 
 
Comics have gotten darker over the years. The 'gosh darn' days of crime fighting are long gone. The main focus of Cry For Justice was supposed to be about the Justice League actually getting justice for those that were harmed. Should the Justice League take a harder route? If villains are becoming deadlier, should the team change their tactics to deal with them? What would then be the difference between "justice" and "vengeance"?
 
What are your thoughts on the matter? Was Ollie justified in taking matters into his own hands? Should Ollie be held accountable for what he did? Does having the power and responsibility that they do justify them being above the law? Will Green Arrow ever be the hero he used to be or has he gone down a path he can't return from?

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Edited by johnny_spam

Green Arrow did use lethal force in the past look at the Mike Grell stuff. If a character does something once he can do it again. 

Posted by Chane

I've always thought the concept of an archer not using lethal force to fight crime slightly odd. To shoot an arrow at someone you should be prepared to kill. Unless we're talking 70s trick arrows of course! ;o)

Posted by shugtastic

i know i'm going to kick myself for forgetting someone obvious, but who is the character we all know who died?  are they referring to Lian?  because it seems like most folks don't necessarily know who she is?
Posted by warlock360

Looks like he's doing it right.

Edited by Lamenoire

Prometheus' helmet shouldn't has stopped this arrow ? 
As far as I am concerned, I think a guy who is fast enough to take down the whole JLA (well, the one in Cry for justice) and to stop a kryptonian, would be able to catch/deflect an arrow ? 
Do you think that, when his body will be found, heroes will immediatly understand what happened ? 
_"Hey guys, prometheus is dead ! "
_"Really ? How did it happen ? "
_"it seems rather obvious : He has a green arrow stuck in his brain ! "
_"My god, who could have done something like that ?"  
 
Prometheus is a mad man who killed thousands people. He clearly didn't want to stop any time soon. It is normal that one of these heroes finally killed him.   The only other mean would have been to do the same thing than J'onn did.
The scariest thing about Ollie is that he knew that he would kill him when he made his speech (in order to convince the jla to release him).

Posted by Jotham

FINALLY. Batman should be taking notes.

Posted by Theodore

I love that he killed Prometheus!

Posted by G-Man
@shugtastic: From today's Justice League: Rise and Fall Special
Online
Posted by Lamenoire

Batman killing a villain isn't batman (except in keaton movies... and early comics ). 

Posted by greenenvy

This does not bother me at all and I like that he used lethal force because it has to be done once in a while or least once. Green arrow is an archer and archers mostly are assassins or hunt to kill so green arrow  is going to have that instinct no matter what. In his origin it was nothing but survival for him on an island hunting predators perhaps as well as in some certain storylines in the past  he was more of a hunter on criminals than a superhero so this does not concern me one bit. This is natural in one way, it just depends on the past and nature of that crime fighter that has a tendency to kill.
Edited by NightFang

Who else thinks Prometheus gonna come back to life and make Green Arrow pay of killing him?

Posted by jlat89

Wonder Woman killed someone years ago and everyone got over it.  I really don't see the big deal with Green Arrow.  Just like the guy Wonder Woman killed there was really no other way.  The League will be pissed, but they'll get over it eventually, and then we'll find out it really wasn't Prometheus, and Green Arrow was coaxed somehow.  Even if he's not, they'll get over it

Posted by dondasch

Frankly, I applaud Green Arrow for not taking the Batman/Superman approach to villains whose sole purpose in life is to cause death and destruction on a massive scale.  Those two could learn loads about justice from GA and Wonder Woman in ending threats.

Posted by Mr. Dead Pool
@Lamenoire:
Well in my opinion Green Arrow did something that Bat's should have done to Joker loooong ago. I mean Joker's exiestince is a threat to people, and Bats won't do it because he dosen't think it's right? I think it would be totally justified if he did, Gordan might even over look it if he found out.
Posted by warlock360

Green arrow's arrow just turned Red  : )

Posted by Green ankh

"there was also the death of a character that we all know."    Who got killed?   
  
Green Arrow felt to me he was very intense and hime putting a Arrow into dudes head isnt suprising.

Posted by messiahsjedi

 You know in the real world such acts of vengeance would not be tolerated in the judicial system.  Green Arrow would probably face a trial and imprisonment in the real world.  But in a world where people display incredible abilities and skill and powers, real world law enforcement and the judicial system would basically be ineffective.  Most likely your average police officer is not going to be able to take on a villain such as Prometheus.  So, in the comic book fantasy world it would come down to how much force does a hero need to use to stop a villain and could it not be sanctioned by the government?  The heroes in the comic book world have been trained to take on such threats so should they not go all the way for the sake of justice?  Possibly.  It is a shame though to see such classic characters like Green Arrow and Wonder Woman have to resort to such violence.  It's a shame all together that comic books now include so much gratuitous violence and killing.  (For example Blue Beetle?  Ares?  Ultimate Wasp?  Just to name a few.)  Overall this brings up a thought, maybe it's time to go back to telling good fantasy stories where the good guys always win and evil is vanquished.

Posted by Kurrent
Posted by Watch Dog

I say good job and then a standing "golf clap"

Posted by Emerald Dragonfly

Looks like Green Arrow just looked "Watchmen".

Posted by strangeling
@jlat89 said:
" Wonder Woman killed someone years ago and everyone got over it.  I really don't see the big deal with Green Arrow.  Just like the guy Wonder Woman killed there was really no other way.  The League will be pissed, but they'll get over it eventually, and then we'll find out it really wasn't Prometheus, and Green Arrow was coaxed somehow.  Even if he's not, they'll get over it "
Yep.  She snapped Maxwell Lord's neck.  He'd taken control of Superman during the whole OMAC Project thing.
Posted by Final Arrow


This should come as no surpise to any Green Arrow fan. Ollie has killed to protect his family before (BC, In Long Bow Hunter) and this time he was pushed to the edge. I wonder if they are taking GA back down the darker path they had him on in the  the early 90's when he moved fro star city the first time. I think given what has happend he took the right course of action, if not Roy would have done it anyway and Roy has to much to deal with right now. As for the JLA I don't know this may split them down the middle much like Idenity Crisis. Ollie has a lot of friends who will back him (Hal, BC) but how far will they go to protect him from the other leaugers!!
Edited by SUPER-MAN 23

Why is it always Green Arrow? Can't he manage his anger issues?  Sure it was his ex-side kick, But you did not see Batman throttle the life out of Joker for Killing Jason. Well he was pretty close to killing Joker in Batman: Hush, when Joker shot the clayface Tommy Elliot.  Villains (like Prometheus) want to make sure that they did the worse thing that they can possibly do, So that they can no longer be a joke. I guess He picked the wrong person to terrorize. Maybe If he killed Damian, or Would Dick just go out and try to kill him(Maybe not). Besides Roy gets that cyborg arm right? So Oliver goes out to kill Prometheus over an arm thats not even his? 

Edited by Final Arrow
@SUPER-MAN 23 said:

"Why is it always Green Arrow? Can't he manage his anger issues?  Sure it was his ex-side kick, But you did not see Batman throttle the life out of Joker for Killing Jason. Well he was pretty close to killing Joker in Batman: Hush, when Joker shot the clayface Tommy Elliot.  Villains (like Prometheus) want to make sure that they did the worse thing that they can possibly do, So that they can no longer be a joke. I guess He picked the wrong person to terrorize. Maybe If he killed Damian, or Would Dick just go out and try to kill him(Maybe not). Besides Roy gets that cyborg arm. So Oliver goes out to kill Prometheus over an arm thats not even his?  "


I think it was more the desturction of Star Cty and killing his grandaughter more then roy's arm! That caused him to take this action.
Posted by They Killed Cap!

...IDK if I agree...where is the line.
Posted by Crackdown

Are we building towards a more Justice Lords or Ape Vengers theme here, If they don't stop, kill them?

Posted by Archetype
@Kurrent said:
"  Hell yeah it was justified  "
I completely agree, I wish I could be tolerant like Batman or Superman but I know if I held a dead family member and I had the power to kill the murderer I damn sure would soak my hands in blood.I like to think that I am above petty revenge and hope that the criminal could be reformed and maybe even redeem their self but when such intense motions are involved I know that I would feel exactly like Ollie.It's not even just one child Prometheus killed hundreds of thousands of people that day, how many children and women and fathers?
Posted by easye777
Posted by Bruce Vain

I really don't have a problem if GA kills, if he has too. I mean he shoot arrows for christ sake lol.
Posted by Final Arrow

I can't wait to see the fall out when the Justice league find out.
Posted by simsey

yeah kill em all take the summer off kick back  why not
Posted by Darkchild

I loved how radical Arrow has gone. He is definately that true blue father, you hurt his kids he will make you pay. And he did, and I find it alright an fine what he did. That bastard hurt his kid and grandkid, so he had to pay. Its what I would have done.

Posted by iLLituracy

JUSTICE!
 
When he put that arrow in Prometheus's face, I literally fistpumped.

Posted by Son_of_Magnus

Green Arrow got lucky

Posted by iLLituracy
@Son_of_Magnus said:
" Green Arrow got lucky "
Green Arrow never gets lucky...
 
Unless it's with your momma'.
Posted by Son_of_Magnus
@iLLituracy said:
" @Son_of_Magnus said:
" Green Arrow got lucky "
Green Arrow never gets lucky...  Unless it's with your momma'. "
.D=<
Posted by thatlad

They always say in comics to the hero "once you kill you can never go back" but isn't that a double standard for all the villains that reform? How come they get a second chance after all th good they've done? I've always wondered how writers never realised how stupid that sounds.  
 
 As for Ollie killing...well I hope this leads to a permanent character change. I don't want him just killing once villain saying his sorry sulking for a few months then everything being back the way it was. Maybe make it so Ollie become the wolverine/punisher of DC, the one willing to go that bit further but keeping in line with his character show how it absolutely destroys his mental well being. Would make for an interesting run. 
 
Thing is though, comics are meant to inspire. Punisher killing people makes sense because there's nothing inspiring about a big dude all in black with big guns. But Ollie's they type of character designed as a symbol, same as superman.  
I'm a bit split on the issue, I don't know whether this is a good thing or a bad thing. I just hope there's some commitment and it's not just done for shock value and forgotten in a few months. 
 
 PS do you think they've followed Smallville GL seeing as he killed Lex a few seasons back??

Posted by speedlgt

but the problem is that heroes do kill they almost have to if you want to stop evil evil must be destroyed......
look at Secrect invasion i am sure that thor and iron man killed hundreds of skrulls and they are noble heroes does anyone care? Batman kill the ultimate evil darkseed? does anyone care? and look at guys like green arrow and wolverine lets be real despite how you feel about their skills fighting these guys should only result in death..........i mean what else is an arrow gonna do other than kill you? what else is 3 blades on a fist gonna do other than kill you? heroes who wield weapon of death are gonna cause death......and if they dont then WTF?

Edited by Adam Michaels


I think it falls within the context. Green Arrow wasn't always mr. goody two-shoes. His son was mamed, his city was leveled, and his granddaughter crushed. It makes perfect sense for Ollie to do what he did. It would be harder to sell if it was Mon-El, for example, who seems to take the moral high ground that Superman stood for. But it's completely believable that someone like Arrow would go to such lengths. He's more complex than a simple black-and-white outlook on things.

 
My hope is that they continue with this and remain consistent. If this was a one-time thing, it's pretty useless. But if they follow up on it, or if Green Arrow takes a more lethal approach on things from now on, the killing of Prometheus served a greater purpose for the character. He can become an in betweener as he can be a hero and a sort of villain at the same time by having certain heroes not condone his behavior and choose to do something about it (I guess like Punisher, but with arrows).

Posted by danhimself

after what Prometheous did to the Green Arrow family, Ollie is excused to do whatever he needs to do....I just feel bad for Roy...he hasn't woke up yet and doesn't know that he not only lost his arm but his daughter died to

Posted by Art Penwright

   As some of you already pointed out Green Arrow has had a violent past, the Longbow Hunter's being the best example. He's also been more aggressive than batman, I mean the guy doesn't use trick arrows anymore, when he shots someone he's hitting them with real fricking arrow. But, I think the most important part of all this is that Green Arrow is suppose to be the imperfect hero. 
        I kind of see him as the everyman batman; sure he's clever, skilled, and all that but, he's also more flawed and that makes him more relatable. The big reveal at the end of The Archer's Quest was that he knew about his son's birth and left him, he regrets it like nothing else, but he still did it. I think moments like that make him a more interesting character, the hero that doesn't always do the right thing. It puts him in contrast to Superman and Batman who are almost perfect, and have a very staunch sense of justice, Ollie's a bit more human he let's his emotions get the best of him.

Posted by bl00dm0nk3y

didn't hawkeye go through the exact same thing? ended up killing wanda after finding out she did some screwed up stuff in the marvel universe that incorporated everyone in the avengers

Posted by Mbecks14

This is such a horrible defecation on the character of Green Arrow.
 
Wake me when its rebooted out of continuity

Posted by Dracade102

Well, With a Guy Who's Main weapon is a Arrow, I'd Think It would be kinda Hard to avoid killing...
Edited by Secret Identity
@Art Penwright said:

"    As some of you already pointed out Green Arrow has had a violent past, the Longbow Hunter's being the best example. He's also been more aggressive than batman, I mean the guy doesn't use trick arrows anymore, when he shots someone he's hitting them with real fricking arrow. But, I think the most important part of all this is that Green Arrow is suppose to be the imperfect hero.         I kind of see him as the everyman batman; sure he's clever, skilled, and all that but, he's also more flawed and that makes him more relatable. The big reveal at the end of The Archer's Quest was that he knew about his son's birth and left him, he regrets it like nothing else, but he still did it. I think moments like that make him a more interesting character, the hero that doesn't always do the right thing. It puts him in contrast to Superman and Batman who are almost perfect, and have a very staunch sense of justice, Ollie's a bit more human he let's his emotions get the best of him. "

I agree entirely. I love Ollie because of this. He's not perfect and he has killed before when pushed too far. At that time he was low level and out of the spotlight. Now he's practically in charge of the JLA, that's as in the spotlight as you can be. I think it's actually quite refreshing to have a character that CAN be pushed to that line and cross it. Otherwise you know that the hero will always win out at the end of the day. The idea of this being a little more high level is where the new story is going to be more interesting. And this time it's not just some guy kidnapping and torturing his lover  SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.
 What they do with this from here is going to be an interesting chapter in the character's life. So long as we don't just have him go all punisher on us i think it could be good. I'm looking forward to "the rise and fall" even though it could well take the character in a direction that i don't like. 
Posted by Jake Fury

If someone was responsible for the maiming of my son and death of my grand daughter putting an arrow thru their skull would be getting off easy in my book. Ollie was completely justified in his actions. I can't wait to see where this story goes.
Posted by geraldthesloth
@Mbecks14 said:
" This is such a horrible defecation on the character of Green Arrow.  Wake me when its rebooted out of continuity "
So than you're expecting longbow hunters and the other grell stories where Ollie has the same attitude to be retconned as well? have a good long sleep than I suppose.
Posted by ninjasquirrel01
@jlat89 said:
" Wonder Woman killed someone years ago and everyone got over it.  I really don't see the big deal with Green Arrow.  Just like the guy Wonder Woman killed there was really no other way.  The League will be pissed, but they'll get over it eventually, and then we'll find out it really wasn't Prometheus, and Green Arrow was coaxed somehow.  Even if he's not, they'll get over it "
Exactly.
Frankly, this changes nothing and I couldn't care less.
Posted by Stealthfart

I've seen a few people mention Roy and how he might take this, but what about Cheshire?  Lian was her daughter as well and you can't say she doesn't love her. 
 
Also, i think Green Arrow was justified in what he did, but this needs to have ramifications, like it did with Ultimate Hawkeye when he killed Black Widow.

Edited by Cellywyn

Ollie is absolutely justified in what he did. Prometheus attacked his family. He attacked Roy, whose practically Ollie's son, and he killed his granddaughter. Ollie is human and he's entitled to go through the motions. Prometheus deserved to die. My only qualm is that Roy won't be the one to take down the man responsible for....what happened to Lian. So yeah.

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