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Off My Mind: How AGE OF ULTRON Changes the Marvel Universe

They said things wouldn't be the same. Looks like they weren't joking.

There's been a lot of discussion over AGE OF ULTRON as the series progressed. There's no denying that the series has indeed "changed everything." Or at least it has made some major changes in the Marvel Universe. By now, you should have had enough time to read the issue since there will be some SPOILERS below.

When Ultron's "attack" devastated most of the Marvel Universe, it seemed time travel was the only key to saving the world and those that had already perished. The problem was, it didn't quite work out the way they planned. As some of the heroes went into the future in order to fight Ultron, who caused the destruction from there, Wolverine traveled back into the past (with Sue Richards trying to keep an eye on him) in order to kill Hank Pym before he could actually create Ultron. The result was time and the universe broke.

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We saw some fissures in the Marvel Universe as a result. This means there will be some interesting crossover possibilities.

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In AGE OF ULTRON #10, we even saw an image of Ben Grimm as Blackbeard the pirate. This sort of touches on something we've brought up since Beast brought the original X-Men from the past into the present in the pages of ALL-NEW X-MEN. The idea of time travel in the Marvel Universe didn't allow you to actually travel into your past. So when the Fantastic Four traveled back (in issue #5) and Ben was mistaken for Blackbeard, that didn't really happen. This was also fully explained to Ben by Reed in MARVEL TWO-IN-ONE #50, when Ben tried traveling into the past to give a slightly younger version of himself a serum that could have cured him because his current body had become too comfortable with his rock-like state. When he arrived in the present, he was still the Thing and that's when Reed told him traveling back simply creates an alternate reality.

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If this is the case, why did we catch a glimpse of Ben as Blackbeard? How can the original X-Men make a difference in the present? How could Wolverine have changed the past to fix the present?

These are some of the things that can be explored now. With time broken and the fissures existing, we can see more happen because of it (like Spider-Man 2099 somehow arriving in the present perhaps). We will also see the X-Men of the future travel into the present to discuss the problem with the X-Men from the past being in the present...

The other big outcome was the fuzzy line between "universes."

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Somehow Galactus ends up in the Ultimate Universe. You may recall there was an Ultimate version of Galactus (even if many of us are trying to forget about it). The possibility of these universes crossing over also paves the way for the sequel to SPIDER-MEN with our Spider-Man and Miles Morales. If you read the first miniseries, you know there was a bit of a cliffhanger and we've all been wondering when we'll find out more.

Then of course there's Angela.

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She did not seem too happy to find herself in the Marvel Universe. She pretty much vowed to get to the bottom of things. Having a character from the Spawn/McFarlane universe could mean possible crossovers with other publishers. It might not be too likely but at least it will be interesting to see how Angela and the Guardians of the Galaxy interact.

What does all this mean? That's the big question and the fact that we may not fully know all the answers makes this a bit exciting. Comic universes should definitely have firm rules and guidelines but you have to admit allowing those rules to bend a little gives the opportunities for different types of stories. As long as crazy events or crossovers don't happen all the time, this could be just the right kick in the pants to make what is currently an exciting time in the Marvel Universe even more exciting.

The final big question I have is once characters start to realize things have suddenly started changing, will Wolverine get the blame for being the one to break time?

152 Comments

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DavidsonLHaworth

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Edited By DavidsonLHaworth

I enjoyed the full storyline and because of it I am reeading Guardians Of The Galaxy, Hunger, Avengers AI. It's all good.

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Jahir2998

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And what started from being a robot taking over the world ,ended up to fucking up reality

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NixNightbird

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Wolverine didn't kill the other Wolverine. He stabbed him in the head to damage his memories and then sent him out into the world. This explains how Wolverine can be in his own series, the Uncanny Avengers, the Avengers, the X-Men, at the school, in space, in Madripoor, and everywhere else in one month. There's more than one Wolverine!!!

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DarkDay

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So much complaining and comparing but no actual reasons why.

I liked AoU and I like a lot that was setup, especially the possibility that time-travel will no longer be a band-aid fix for any terrible plot.

I hate to be that guy, but in Marvel that has always been the exact opposite of established canon. Time-travel already wasn't a band-aid fix. Time travel simply created parallel universes or divergent timelines (with the only exceptions perhaps being Cable and Bishop which I say perhaps because neither of their timelines have come to pass and yet the two of them seem as if they might have found some way around this).

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LarryDavis

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Marvel;'s attempt at a New 52-esque universe by the sounds of it. They can't just leave the timelines alone.

... how does it sound like that? It's more like it's just introducing a way to play around with the different universes/timelines a bit, which I think sounds super interesting. I did not read this series, though, and probably won't. But Spider-Mang 2099 being in regular 616 timeline could be cool, same with Galactus in Ultimate.

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blackkitty

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I'm going with typical Marvel in that things will change for about 6 months then suddenly nothing will happen, it will go back to how it was before as we gear up to the next big event.

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RedRoomWriter

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@lifeboy said:

Why Angela?? She is a minor player to be fussing over. Its like getting free samples of toothpaste and floss at the dentist office. Its good, but nothing I'm going to go ape $h!t over..

Character that won awards and was a large part of the Original (and Best) Spawn mythos.

Reason you probably don't know much about her is because during Neil Gaiman and Todd McFarlanes feud which lead to the lawsuit, McFarlane made the decision to kill Angela off (McFarlane was withholding payments he owed Gaiman for his work, hence the big lawsuit that saw Gaiman getting Angela, since he was in fact her creator)

This is also why you don't see Angela appear in the original animated series despite how important she was and the big part she did indeed play in the comics.

Just because McFarlane behaved like a jerk doesn't make Angela any less of a character, I highly suggest taking the time to read about her before joining the bandwagon of people that were obviously under a rock during the 90's.

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ThatOneKidWhoLikesComics

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@knightrise said:

Announcing Marvel's New 52!

No crap! WTF Marvel?!

Is nothing in comics original anymore? Crossovers from other publishers, rewriting time. C'mon, man, seriously. That got old fast.

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TheArmandoShow

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Did this really need to be 10 issues? Really? Sheesh I am so exhausted by these things the Big Two do anymore. Enough. New 52 included. This has pretty much convinced me that 3.99 an issue ($40+ for this series) for drawn out sludge like this isn't worth it. I'm sticking with things like Chew and things not shackled by this round and round masturbatory type storytelling and marketing.

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IronAngelX

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Sounds like Marvel's version of Flashpoint. I wonder if they'll have a New 52 (Marvel NOW was not it and if it was it wasn't satisfactory, I still felt lost picking up those books). I would like to see the entire company reboot like DC did, it's how DC won me over. I used to be all about Marvel, but I never know where to start.

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DubyaNW

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@e1000 said:

@nappystr8: I really hope you're wrong about Infinity...

BTW, 2 questions for those who read AoU, what the hell happened to the heroes who went to the future ? and

how the hell did Wolverine kill the other version of him ??

1.

Nothing happened. When Hank was killed, there was no Ultron, and therefore that future could not exist.

2.

Not sure. Beheading?

His spine can't be cut. Not even with his own claws, so no beheading.

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DubyaNW

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@e1000 said:

@nappystr8: I really hope you're wrong about Infinity...

BTW, 2 questions for those who read AoU, what the hell happened to the heroes who went to the future ? and

how the hell did Wolverine kill the other version of him ??

He can't. That's what was so stupid. When I was kid they used to have these marvel encyclopedias with everyone's powers. Now they have wiki's. Bendis needs to read one. Wolverine can't kill Wolverine, and She-Hulk does not have unbreakable skin. UofA was clown show.

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ClintsEvilTwin

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So many people on here saying they no longer read Marvel's events, yet they are bitching about how bad they are. How the fuck do they know if they didn't even read it?

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yttric

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@novarichrider: I am praying that he is but they do not say anything in the comic.

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frogjitsu

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Edited By frogjitsu

@xxkaeselxy: How could Wolverine possibly eat the other Wolverine faster than he can heal?

Oh snap, I just got an idea! What if we like all made a pact not to buy Events for a couple of years? Would that be enough to stop the madness?

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Daredevilnut

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MatteoPG

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Edited By MatteoPG

@nappystr8: You seem convinced that your aesthetic sense is absolute truth... I didn't dislike this event. It would have been crappy if it wasn't so self-sarcastic. Multiple scenes are purposfully there to mock the consequences of having too much time travel in their stories. It may have not been brilliant, but it was a nice idea and it did what it was supposed to do.

Now, one could like it or not, but you are a little bit on the righteous outrage mode people reserve for civil rights scandals...

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Beserkerfury

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Marvel blows at doing major events,Spider-island,Civil war,House Of M,Deadly Reign,WWHulk,all of them sucked.

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owie

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owie  Moderator


I am of the opinion that Wolverine had to eat the other wolverine to kill him. It's the only method we have not seen used against Logan (besides flinging him into the sun).

Haha! Yes, you're probably right. :)

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E1000

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@owie said:

@e1000 said:

@nappystr8: I really hope you're wrong about Infinity...

BTW, 2 questions for those who read AoU, what the hell happened to the heroes who went to the future ? and

how the hell did Wolverine kill the other version of him ??

These are two of the many questions that arose in my mind after reading those last couple awful issues. I'm assuming the first one will be answered in one of the many spin-offs of Age of Ultron that are coming up. The second one was just bad writing. He could have drowned him, but there's nothing he could have done to kill him with his claws.

Well as far as I could tell, the guys who travelled first went to a future that stopped existing when Wolverine killed Hank so when they travelled back those versions no longer existed, or something, time travel is weird.

As for Wolverine killing his double, Wolverine isn't immortal, and I'm sure out of anyone he'd know how best to kill himself, also probably why it happened off-panel.

Well, when you travel in time, you're supposed to create an alternative reality (at least in the MU) otherwise you have a time paradox (fixing the reason you travelled in time made that you didn't have to travel in time). So, they should exist somewhere... but I'm not existed to see them pop up somewhere.

All those new realities will not help the New avengers !

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dbatdog

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"will Wolverine get the blame for being the one to breaktime?"

Nope - he's too popular, they will probably blame it to Cyclops and his bunch of mutants

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Miss_Garrick

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@darkmount1:

You have the right idea, but Marvel seems to be hopelessly addicted to stupid, so I'm afraid trying to make them go cold turkey will fail.

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BaneStrokeLoboGrundyBatArrow

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Is it like Flashpoint or what? Age of Ultron just confuses me.

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sentryman555

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Edited By sentryman555

What's with Wolverine always thinking if he kills the person from the past the future will be all happy and completely better nowadays? If I remember right he wanted to kill young scott too.

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Captain_Superior_Blue

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I don't understand people who say nothing happened in AoU. The execution of the series was flawed, but the event has setup the ground work for a lot of interesting stories to be told across the entire Marvel universe. A sequel to Spider-men would be extremely interesting with Doc Ock now as Superior Spider-man.

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bigboi100000

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@bigboi100000 said:

I honestly don't understand why so much is blamed on Superman. Much of the city was destroyed before the fight by Zod's machine. During the fight with Zod, he spent most of the time either getting thrown around or chasing Zod. At one point they did fight in space, but Zod hit Supes with the satellite and knocked him back down to Metropolis. Plus, this was only Superman's second battle with a person who had the same level of power as him. Zod was a trained Kryptonian soldier. It's amazing he even won.

and THIS is how Wolverine did it!!!

@lifeboy said:

ape $h!t.

you said it boo

Yes, ma'am

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MyNameWasDeleted

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I honestly don't understand why so much is blamed on Superman. Much of the city was destroyed before the fight by Zod's machine. During the fight with Zod, he spent most of the time either getting thrown around or chasing Zod. At one point they did fight in space, but Zod hit Supes with the satellite and knocked him back down to Metropolis. Plus, this was only Superman's second battle with a person who had the same level of power as him. Zod was a trained Kryptonian soldier. It's amazing he even won.

and THIS is how Wolverine did it!!!

@lifeboy said:

ape $h!t.

you said it boo

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GraniteSoldier

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Age of Ultron was my first big event title in years, so I followed it from one straight through to ten. I found the story itself to be mediocre, but its fallout seems a bit more interesting to me. But I do have some big issues with the book.

There were too many filler moments in this story, I personally feel. Too much time spent in a “new” future after Pym’s murder, which was, at least I found, blatantly temporary. I understand they were looking to show Pym’s importance, but it was an issue and a half. Did something temporary and ultimately unimportant need that much showing? I don’t think so. Same thing with the team sent to the future to battle Ultron. They got much less showtime, but why try and increase the drama with certain deaths when a week later you get a new book out that shows how it didn’t matter anyway? If they had fewer books with a better paced release, I think the tension and thrill would have been much higher. The intro with Hawkeye could have also been streamlined. I understand that they wanted to show how desolate and hopeless the world seemed, but why not just start with Wolverine if it was planned to make him the lead? Wolverine didn’t take the lead until about half way through. If he had just been in the driver’s seat from go, we again could have trimmed out a lot of filler.

Speaking of Wolverine, am I the only one who feels he gets shoved down the throats of Marvel readers? He is a good character, arguably one of Marvel’s best depending on who you talk to, but am I alone in feeling he always takes center stage? I was actually excited issue one started with Hawkeye. I was hoping that Marvel was going to give some smaller names bigger pushes, as Hawkeye has been, until recently with his own title, really a back-burner type of character. Or why not Black Widow or Moon Knight? Or even Taskmaster (who was around for all of three pages)? It would have been more interesting, in my opinion, if Ultron had eliminated all the “heavy hitters” and “big brains” and all that was left to save the world was a smaller group of lesser known, or rather less popular, heroes. It would have been far more interesting if Sue went back in time without Wolverine and performed the same actions. Certainly it’s greatly out of character but isn’t that what adds gravity to it? She had lost everything and was so desperate that she would commit such an act? It is not unbelievable or even dramatic for Wolverine because his first choice is usually to shred things anyway.

As far as the fallout goes, I was a big Spawn fan back in the Al Simmons days, so I am kind of excited to see Angela. I don’t know how she’ll work out with Guardians of the Galaxy, but I have always liked her character. Galactus in the Ultimate universe makes me nervous, simply because I don’t want to see any cross universe/alternate world/any other sort of craziness pursued as legitimate subject matter. I like the idea of the Ultimate Universe as something entirely separate, not a parallel universe, timeline, or any such thing. So I hope that is something that doesn’t get out of hand.

Overall, despite my grievances, I’d give it 5/10. It wasn’t great, or even good, but it was not bad or terrible either. It was just…mediocre. Which was unfortunate because I felt it had the potential to be great. Oh, and can we please give time travel a rest? It’s always messy and seems to be Marvel’s go to idea.

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ptigrusmagus

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'RE: Wolverine killing Wolverine, the alternate one doesn't have the same healing factor, said it right in the comic.

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ForeverMan

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I think a lot of people are overestimating the reach of what has happened here. I didn't get the impression there were any real immediate ramifications aside from Galactus and Angela.

I didn't get the idea that this was some huge universe break across the entire Marvel universe at all.

Anyways I just feel like the whole story was underwhelming. Could have been so much more with something as simple as not having Wolverine as the central character.

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Teerack

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Edited By Teerack

@trevel8182 said:

One of the only thing's I liked about Age of Ultron.

No Caption Provided

I haven't been reading AoU. Is Richard Rider back?

I'm pretty sure this was more meant to convey why Star-Lord isn't also dead.

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Jenkale

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Edited By Jenkale

so confused by this series. i would have liked some explanation about what happened once ultron was defeated so i can know what time in the main marvel universe the series takes place. in the last issue captain marvel is still ms. marvelk, so this happened over a year ago. have there been any changes to reality during that time that anyone has noticed? (other the changes in guardians of galaxy)

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ptigrusmagus

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Edited By ptigrusmagus

I supported AoU from the start and thought it was just okay. I wanted to like it more but the middle was a little too ambitious and if I didnt read the tie ins I probably wouldn't have liked it. I also don't give a crap about Angela, don't care about angels or dogma in life or comics, they are just as fake and forced in both places. AoU was written to bring about certain consequences for Marvel rather than tell a story, what a shame.

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WaveMotionCannon

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@frogjitsu: I blame Dan Didio and the higher ups at DC

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XXkaeselXY

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Edited By XXkaeselXY
@owie said:

@neon_jackal said:

@owie said:

@e1000 said:

@nappystr8: I really hope you're wrong about Infinity...

BTW, 2 questions for those who read AoU, what the hell happened to the heroes who went to the future ? and

how the hell did Wolverine kill the other version of him ??

These are two of the many questions that arose in my mind after reading those last couple awful issues. I'm assuming the first one will be answered in one of the many spin-offs of Age of Ultron that are coming up. The second one was just bad writing. He could have drowned him, but there's nothing he could have done to kill him with his claws.

Well as far as I could tell, the guys who travelled first went to a future that stopped existing when Wolverine killed Hank so when they travelled back those versions no longer existed, or something, time travel is weird.

As for Wolverine killing his double, Wolverine isn't immortal, and I'm sure out of anyone he'd know how best to kill himself, also probably why it happened off-panel.

While I agree that they probably should have disappeared due to the time change, I'm assuming that's not the case simply because such a big deal was made about it at the time, and then it was completely ignored later. So I think it will be dealt with later in one of the many offshoots of the series; they making a continuing series based on this after all.

As for Wolverine, I just can't believe, given the track record for his healing factor in the last decade or so, that any standard cutting-style injury could kill him. I mean the guy was shown to be basically fully functional while Cyke was blasting him almost down to the bones. Even in this series he had his leg burned down to the bone and healed it in a few days. I could believe he could choke himself to death, but they showed blood on his claws, so I assume that's how he did it. Which is pretty much impossible from my point of view.

I am of the opinion that Wolverine had to eat the other wolverine to kill him. It's the only method we have not seen used against Logan (besides flinging him into the sun).

@papparu72 said:

Marvel has too many events period, and too many cross-overs. What ever happened to keeping a story going within a single title. I don't read much marvel anymore but I am a avid collector of Marvel's older comics, 1st app, and good story lines. Companies use these big events to make books that are not selling so well relevant. DC had the right Idea of less equals more...maybe a little sloppy on the execution but the right idea. Like other posts I have no idea whats going on, they need to slim down the titles and give the story for single titles time to breathe without big events popping up, cause readers are not stupid and can smell a money grab.

Marvel has too many events and tie ins because they sell *so* much better than normal comics. Printing an Event is tantamount to printing money. Even a lame event like Fear Itself averaged almost a 100,000 copies per issue. If the event is actually good/popular (like Civil War or AvX) then it averages 150+ copies per issue. There is nothing in comics that averages such high sales so consistently save for a few select titles (like Batman).

Comic Book companies have trained their audiences to think of events as "mattering" and non-events as being "filler" or "meaningless". The shame of it is that they really do need to work on making non-events as "mattering" because, eventually, there is going to be a big backlash against the overuse of events (and I'd say more than one a year is an overuse).

The only way Marvel will learn is if people stop buying event books and start buying non-event books. But that isn't going to happen until Marvel overplays their hand.

@crashbang said:

@redx9 said:

Seriously, Age of Ultron was a complete fail of a marvel event. I think on ign's podcast they said they had a hard time wondering why it was 10 issues because so much could have been cut out just to fit it down to 5 issues alone. but not just that but I really walked away from this with a "who cares" mentality. I'm not worried about consequences for this crap because it doesn't fit in the context of anything in regular 616 anyways even with Angela coming to the Guardians.

I totally agree with this. 'Changes everything' is a huge exaggeration. Changes what, exactly? Okay, Angela, fine, big whoop. This isn't Flashpoint level stuff, is it?

I also agree that it was hugely dragged out, with the back-and-forth with Wolverine getting very tiresome. They needed to trim the fat and not feel like they were just doing it to get more money. Guess I'm the sucker for buying them all.

It does change everything. It's the justification for why things in Marvel NOW! Aren't working right. This is clearly supposed to be placed before Marvel Now and, probably, before AvX.

@shinjiro15 said:

the one thing about Angela I'm curious about is "when she arrived". Marvel keeps saying that her new history is intertwined with Marvel, as if she has always been in the MU. she might have arrived ages ago, but then just found the core marvel characters.

I think in an itnerview I read mentioning Galactus in the UU this was hinted at as well - Galactus literally just got there, the quote saying he hasnt been in the UU for 3-4 years. But with Angela it's she;s always been there.

Angela could have been brought into the distant past of Marvel. It's not like the Ultimate Universe and the 616 Universe match up in terms of dates.

@fodigg said:

We have too many time travel/reality crossing storylines right now in Marvel:

  • All New X-Men: teams from both past and future
  • Age of Ultron: wolverine breaks the time stream
  • Uncanny Avengers: the children of Apocalypse are trying to kill the "seven futures"
  • New Avengers: other realities are crashing into ours possibly destroying it

I know this stuff is Marvel's bread and butter but it's just a lot all at once. It's like, really? Wolverine ruined everything? Then why do we care about what's going on in New Avengers? Does the original five X-men matter anymore?

Wolverine was the straw that broke the camel's back. Ultron was the Time Ruiner in that he was constantly watching the past and changing things after he took over.

@mrfuzzynutz said:

Bendis does it again, his stink is on another event that falls short, his name is a on a storyline that was supposed to set up a major turning point but was saddled with delays, remember how 'Secret Wars' was supposed to lead into 'Secret Invasion'? Age of Ultron was meant to lead into the Marvel Now launch, so this event failed in many levels to me

The delays for Secret Wars were due to the art, not Bendis. Age of Ultron was completed last year. Marvel withheld the comic.

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w0nd

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@owie said:

@neon_jackal said:

@owie said:

@e1000 said:

@nappystr8: I really hope you're wrong about Infinity...

BTW, 2 questions for those who read AoU, what the hell happened to the heroes who went to the future ? and

how the hell did Wolverine kill the other version of him ??

These are two of the many questions that arose in my mind after reading those last couple awful issues. I'm assuming the first one will be answered in one of the many spin-offs of Age of Ultron that are coming up. The second one was just bad writing. He could have drowned him, but there's nothing he could have done to kill him with his claws.

Well as far as I could tell, the guys who travelled first went to a future that stopped existing when Wolverine killed Hank so when they travelled back those versions no longer existed, or something, time travel is weird.

As for Wolverine killing his double, Wolverine isn't immortal, and I'm sure out of anyone he'd know how best to kill himself, also probably why it happened off-panel.

While I agree that they probably should have disappeared due to the time change, I'm assuming that's not the case simply because such a big deal was made about it at the time, and then it was completely ignored later. So I think it will be dealt with later in one of the many offshoots of the series; they making a continuing series based on this after all.

As for Wolverine, I just can't believe, given the track record for his healing factor in the last decade or so, that any standard cutting-style injury could kill him. I mean the guy was shown to be basically fully functional while Cyke was blasting him almost down to the bones. Even in this series he had his leg burned down to the bone and healed it in a few days. I could believe he could choke himself to death, but they showed blood on his claws, so I assume that's how he did it. Which is pretty much impossible from my point of view.

Dude can die. He can drown and has displayed a fear of drowning. I am sure drowning him isn't the only way to kill him. As to how he knows how to kill himself without actually being able to test the theory out is beyond me.

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XXkaeselXY

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Edited By XXkaeselXY
@omgomgwtfwtf said:

Is this time alteration thing meant to be permanent? Is Marvel trying to do a mini-flashpoint nonsense in order to legitimize revamping/ introducing new characters? I'm not entirely sure what was the point of this event. I mean if the changes are not permanent, then it's impact is zero and is practically a waste of time. Hopefully something good can come of this, because quite frankly Marvel is boring me to tears.

It potentially explains what is wrong with the "system" (i.e. the problem in the Avengers comics). It allows Marvel to add Angela to the 616 universe and push Galactus into the Ultimate Universe. Time Travel does not work the same way now and it will likely be that way for a while.

@e1000 said:

@nappystr8: I really hope you're wrong about Infinity...

BTW, 2 questions for those who read AoU, what the hell happened to the heroes who went to the future ? and

how the hell did Wolverine kill the other version of him ??

They were killed by Ultron.

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Lord_Magistrate

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i really think they should have introduced Malibu characters into the marvel universe

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NightCrawler358

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Pretty exciting potential I guess, but this major change to the Marvel Universe is coming too soon after Marvel Now! You give new readers a "jumping on point" and just throw everything they've just been introduced to into the gutter!

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@degalon: Avengers Arena isn't killing anyone off. It's just going to be revealed to be a whole "It was all in the Matrix!" deal at the end.

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owie  Moderator

@owie said:

@e1000 said:

@nappystr8: I really hope you're wrong about Infinity...

BTW, 2 questions for those who read AoU, what the hell happened to the heroes who went to the future ? and

how the hell did Wolverine kill the other version of him ??

These are two of the many questions that arose in my mind after reading those last couple awful issues. I'm assuming the first one will be answered in one of the many spin-offs of Age of Ultron that are coming up. The second one was just bad writing. He could have drowned him, but there's nothing he could have done to kill him with his claws.

Well as far as I could tell, the guys who travelled first went to a future that stopped existing when Wolverine killed Hank so when they travelled back those versions no longer existed, or something, time travel is weird.

As for Wolverine killing his double, Wolverine isn't immortal, and I'm sure out of anyone he'd know how best to kill himself, also probably why it happened off-panel.

While I agree that they probably should have disappeared due to the time change, I'm assuming that's not the case simply because such a big deal was made about it at the time, and then it was completely ignored later. So I think it will be dealt with later in one of the many offshoots of the series; they making a continuing series based on this after all.

As for Wolverine, I just can't believe, given the track record for his healing factor in the last decade or so, that any standard cutting-style injury could kill him. I mean the guy was shown to be basically fully functional while Cyke was blasting him almost down to the bones. Even in this series he had his leg burned down to the bone and healed it in a few days. I could believe he could choke himself to death, but they showed blood on his claws, so I assume that's how he did it. Which is pretty much impossible from my point of view.

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sasquatch888

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@papparu72:

Marvel has too many events period, and too many cross-overs. What ever happened to keeping a story going within a single title. I don't read much marvel anymore but I am a avid collector of Marvel's older comics, 1st app, and good story lines. Companies use these big events to make books that are not selling so well relevant. DC had the right Idea of less equals more...maybe a little sloppy on the execution but the right idea. Like other posts I have no idea whats going on, they need to slim down the titles and give the story for single titles time to breathe without big events popping up, cause readers are not stupid and can smell a money grab.

it feels like a great earth shattering story could never just surprise you and happen..everything has to happen in an event....can we please have something happen in the actual regular comic without all the hoopla ,,,, imagine if these events just a happened within the actual comic issues ...everything has to be a big event or a new number 1.....i remember when a new X-men number one issue was an event in itself now it seems like a new avengers number 1 or x-men number one follows every event its getting corny and turning off long time collectors ...how many X-men and Avengers number 1's have their been in the last few years ....its terrible what happened ..these new series just feel like stop gaps to the major events ....at one time i was a person who got all my friends reading comics going to the comic store collecting and there weren't even superhero movies back then ....now i couldn't get them interested in comics if i begged them its just too much to collect ...marvel thinks every new number 1 will bring in new readers but i think in the long run it kills collecting. it becomes too much to keep up with and people just give up ...they don't just collect everything of collect one book ...they give up on comics

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sasquatch888

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Edited By sasquatch888

@nappystr8 said:

@dj1107 said:

@nappystr8: So what about Spider-Island? that was an event everyone seems to like

Spider-Island was not an event. It was a self contained story arc within the pages of Amazing Spider-Man that happened to have a bunch of unnecessary tie-ins. I wouldn't consider Court of Owls or Death of the Family in Batman to be events either.

i think an event by marvel standards usually involves a separate limited series ...and stories like two annihilation's, chaos war, neccrosha, war of kings, realm of kings, fall of the hulks, world war hulk, and shadowland were events ...just not company wide events ,,,,the hit they took on my wallet felt like companywide events though events... here is a wiki link of marvels events http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publication_history_of_Marvel_Comics_crossover_events

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Crash_Recovery

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@knightrise: Bingo. Actually this is even "worse". This is like Spider-Man's deal with Mephisto that magically, through one spell, undid certain stories throughout his history but not others.

It's a mess. Anything is up for grabs.

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sasquatch888

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@idontlikebirds said:

@smart_dork_dude: Their Ultimate Universe would be more comparable to DC's Earth 2. New take on classic characters while retaining the previous ones and having them exist in another world. Earth 2, just like The Ultimate Universe, has killed off major characters and kept them dead.

No, no, no, no. The entirety of the New 52 is like Ultimate Marvel. The difference? There's no regular DC universe to fall back on.

Really the New 52 feels like Ultimate DC, but without a REAL DC universe to fall back on. It reminds me of that issue of She-Hulk where she was taken by the Living Tribunal to decide whether the Ultimate Universe should completely replace the classic Marvel universe. She defended her home universe, and as it was more fun, it was spared. That's the keyword right there. Fun. In an Ultimate universe, there's less room for the silly or really out there stuff. Thor putting Asgard in Oklahoma, floating 10 feet off the ground? Fun! Batshit insane to say out loud, but fun! Anthropomorphic duck and raccoon existing in the same universe and interacting with everyone? Fun! Having a world devouring space giant in a purple suit with a giant helmet? Fun!

With DC going "Ultimate" I feel the same way I do about Ultimate Marvel. I like many of the ideas and concepts, but I don't like the universe as a WHOLE. The only reason I had anything to do with the Ultimate universe was because of Ultimate Spider-Man. I loved the hell out of Ultimate Spider-Man and I am not ashamed to admit I did enjoy the first Ultimates volume. Didn't LOVE it, but I enjoyed it. I loved how mutants were feared and hated because the mutant gene is actually a virus that can spread and that mutants in this universe are just that, accidents and mistakes which is what a mutant by definition is.

I could go on and on, but my point is that while I enjoyed these ideas and concepts, especially how Ultimate Spider-Man went, I would NOT want it to replace the mainstream Marvel universe. And thankfully it didn't.

wow an interesting take on things

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@dj1107 said:

@nappystr8: So what about Spider-Island? that was an event everyone seems to like

Spider-Island was not an event. It was a self contained story arc within the pages of Amazing Spider-Man that happened to have a bunch of unnecessary tie-ins. I wouldn't consider Court of Owls or Death of the Family in Batman to be events either.