Off My Mind: Female Superhero Costumes - Practical or Exploitive?

" @comicboy12 said:

"In all of the piece of art you post not one of them have a male character posing in a sexually submissive manner, nor are we suppose veiw them as sexual objects . "

 I find it rather sexist to think that a woman in a sexual pose is sexually submissive. I've known plenty of women comfortable with their bodies and sexuality that are definitely not submissive. I don't find PowerGirls ortheMarvel Divas to be looking submissive.  "

So I believe that showing skin is not a bad thing with female comic characters, just showing skin for the wrong reason is where I have the problem The one character that comes to mind that gets a free pass for a less then practical uniform is Wonder Woman a bathing suit and red high heeled boots does not speak powerful Amazon Princess to me but yet her look just seems to work...

one word puberty

This poking of Pandora's box was really unnecessary. As long as guys have wangs and eyes and have a precocious mind (same with girls if they're lesbians), this is continuously happening. So what if PG or Huntress' outfits aren't PC? Big deal! They're not being reduced to be damn sex slaves.
 
Making this thread was an incessant mistake.

Wow, and people say feminists hate men. If you genuinely believe men just have to objectify women, because it’s hardwired into them to regard those possessing vaginas as occasionally entertaining fuckdolls rather than people, and that objectification just has to ooze all over the pages of stories about good costumes vs evil costumes (plus explosions!) then you have a really, really low opinion of men.

I assume that since you have an internet connection, you’re not sitting in a tree eating a raw rat and grunting suspiciously at interlopers. I mean, I could be wrong. These are big internets, and there’s probably at least one person into that. But if you aren’t that person, and you make this argument, I feel bound to remind you that fully functional humans are totally capable of overcoming biological imperatives in favour of ethical standards and social justice and have been for hundreds of years. If you can’t be bothered to make the effort, then I’m not convinced I should consider you a modern human being at all.

Let me be the devil's advocate here. 
 
Tight clothes are not practical but a must if you want to keep them under your regular clothes, like superman, spiderman, etc. The same happens with male characters. Also many of them have very revealing clothes, what about Hulk? Beside of bunches of Tarzan and Tor like characters. I think it is a tie wrt revealing in male and female.
 
They are very sexy and fit, because they are superheros, male characters are very muscular too, with rare exceptions, so no big difference. I think the fitness and sex appealing factor is on pair too. 
 
If looking for examples, what about Mystique? Allegedly she has to be nude to use her superpowers. What about Motoko Kusanagi? She has to be nude to get invisibility too, yet she does not reveal her body ever since she doesn't have an actual flesh body :P 
 
To finish up, I don't know why female characters should be taken any less seriously or considered as "just a body" even if they were nude, does this happen with Dr Manhattan? Not at all, thus the whole point fails. 

if super heroines dont want to run around in skimpy outfits, they can just run around naked for all i care. same goes for the dudes....WHY ISNT THERE A NUDIST SUPER HERO TEAM?!

Power Boy and Namor dress scantily clad

Femininity and masculinity obviously mean many different things to different people, but comics take the stereotypes of both and go to the extreme. Men are not drawn in the same ways as women, but they are certainly not drawn any more realistically or any less idealized. And that is the whole point of heroes, as they descended from Greek gods. They are what people think of as the ideal human, and people certainly don't think of the ideal male and the ideal female as being indistinguishable. And sorry if you don't like it, but in our societies eyes, women are much more sexual creatures than men. That part has certainly changed since the Greek times, when the male form was far more sexualized, but "thems the breaks." Take solace in knowing equality exists in how absurdly exaggerated both sexes are. Just differently.

Tim Gunn actually did a whole thing on superhero costumes, and his opinions were some of the most interesting, fanboy-devoid things I've ever heard. On Power Girl, he said that the costume works because it's her owning her own sexuality. He said the character just had that vibe. I believe he called Black Canary a whore...

" What about Motoko Kusanagi? She has to be nude to get invisibility too, yet she does not reveal her body ever since she doesn't have an actual flesh bod"

Not because she had to be for her Therm-Optic Camo to work. She was running around with  nothing else on because she wanted to. Puppet Master was also seen nude along with the Major.

Anyway, does it really matter what a costume shows or doesn't show? Who bases their opinion solely on what the character looks like?

My favorite characters are Ms. Marvel and Power Girl. Is it because they have sexy costumes? No. It's because they are well written, strong female characters.

Enjoy comics for what they are and don't get hung up on all this.

i dont even know why they wear whole costumes. old school Hawksmoor and Jenny Sparks made the most sense to me... T he Question... Starman... Power Man / Luke cage
 
costumes are stupid.

" @comicboy12 said:

"

"

She actually looks dead in that picture. Maybe she got caught in the oil spill? "

My problem is not with comic book artists drawing women in a sexy way or even in the skimpiness of the costumes but the shear ridiculous and unrealistic way in which they are drawn (perfectly spherical cantaloupe shaped breasts...ahem). It is an insult to how sexy the female body really is to draw it in that way (above lady deadpool picture is a perfect example) Some artists make me wonder if they have ever seen a woman's anatomy that hasnt been under the knife and then put into a magazine centerfold. Often these spandex costumes look as if they are painted on rather than the artist taking any time to think about how that material would ACTUALLY fall and stretch on a body. Lets take our female athletes as examples...dont you think women superheroes would wear sports bras? 

If you got it... FLAUNT it

" @Nova`Prime` said:

" @comicboy12 said:

"

"

She actually looks dead in that picture. Maybe she got caught in the oil spill? "

excuse me lord for thinking that comment was funny "

Marvel and DC is a modern mirror of Greek myth where the first superheroes like Hercules and the gods where completely nude in battle or as statues. The body is a beautiful thing from God and shows how brave without any armor and any clothing to show how heroic and powerful they really are. Naked superheros don 't bother one bit and its really nudism not lust or sex unless they temped you personally. There is no reason to cover up. Show it and be heroic!   

its great how they're boobs are all drawn as if they're nude under the spandex. If you think about the actual tailoring of such an outfit, it means that there are specific tailor made boob-slots for the suit.

I agree completely understand what g man is saying. I mean i'm a 19 year old male so i completely understand wanting to see stuff like well this... 

The real reason artist draw women like that is to sale comics. More people will want to see that if they keep buying the comics

well if they had more men in exploitive outfits there wouldnt be a problem would they..so i say exploit everyone

  Yeah, although this type of artwork really entraps a specific gender type, I don't think comics are going to attract a majority of the opposite sex any time soon (with the exception of Babs and other gals, which still continues to baffle my mind). Comics is a man's sport, sad to say, but I think we've all accepted that years ago. That being said, I believe it is pretty offensive the ridiculous boob and waist sizes that artists give to these women. I used to date a self proclaimed militant feminist (which she hardly was), so I was able to gain some "perspective" of the offensiveness of this art, haha not that this gives me any credibility.  But her main theory was that if all men and women were projected in the same fashion on the media (half naked with their asses hanging out), there would be no problem. Of all her uneducated half-retarded arguments, this one I actually agreed with. Unfortunately, though there are some males portrayed this way in comics, there is definitely an imbalance. 
 
I think comics need to definitely incorporate more realistic women body types and stop exploiting body parts, because it gives a lot of these fans, especially young ones, a misconstrued idea of how to view women. And let's be honest, these are comic book fans we're talking about; for the majority of them, they're gonna need all the help they can get. Comic character creators have to stop creating sex symbols and instead, appealing characters. More Storm's, less Power Girl's. And what's with giving teenage girls huge chests (Black Alice and such), that's really just creepy. 

sex sells or what ever you want to call it. whatever makes the characters pop out to make comics get bought. now imagine what bats would look like if he was in a skimpy outfit would that sell? no matter how you see you gotta have that sex symbol to help sell the comic even if their is a good story that goes along with it. besides  they show off power girl twins eyes up here chatting to ya why don't they show the crotch shot of male superheros other then their muscle bods or bony butts then complain or wine  bout it professionally. you gonna have subjected individuals or make them as a sex symbol in comics or movies.

So where's the inverse to this?  If we stopped having revealing clothing, there would be women that would complain that female characters all of a sudden aren't allowed to be sexy and show off their bodies. 
 
It's a vicious cycle.  Personally, I don't think they need to do anything with the outfits (although they could stop using certain angles with Huntress in comics, like one particular angle at the beginning of Birds of Prey #2).  I think they just need to write the characters better. 
 
Wonder Woman is a great example of a beautiful woman with a revealing outfit that also happens to be an incredibly strong female character. 
 
One way or another, women will always be objectified by someone, and you nor me nor most people can't stop that.  We can't say to someone "oh, you aren't allowed to look at that person and wert whirl".  However, if the writers were making sure that they wrote these characters with a purpose, direction, and strong capabilities, then it would be less offensive in many cases. 
 
Look at Huntress and Power Girl.  They KNOW they have slammin' bodies.  That's why they have the outfits they wear.  They WANT people to look at them. 
 
Like I said, it's a vicious cycle, a double-sided blade.

Well I don't think its exploitation since they're all fictional people.  Having them with tights around their boobs isn't any more exploitative or wrong then having them beaten on, imprisoned, killed, or even the reversal when they kill, beat on people or send them to prison. They're not REALLY in any danger because they're made of ink. Tights are how its been for men and women. Look at Namor for example, one of the oldest characters. Or Robin.  Peter Parker was naked for 5 issued in a row. Being sexy should be a positive thing. It should be seen as admirable just like being strong is.  If you got it, work it.

Well, I would like to find the male equivalent of this issue of "Marvel Girls", a part of the "Women of Marvel" campaign and written by Chris Claremont (strangely). Essentially, it takes female X-women and puts them in situations where they're conveniently in skimpy clothing or satiating some sort of fetish, usually at the same time. 
 
Splendid, some of my favorite X-women reduced to humiliating scenarios sketched by an artist, Milo Manara, known mainly for just drawing porn. Uh-huh, I'm really feeling Marvel's regard for their female characters with this one.  
 

Who cares about practicality? if I wanted that I can look outside my window..... give me some skin! dwl

The distraction idea is interesting since, while it might not make sense for Power Girl, it might for someone like Huntress since she's basically a fighter.  Thinking about it, though, just taking her personality into account, the exposed abs wouldn't be the most expected thing.  I think it might make more sense if they weren't out there.

" The thing for me is, I love the costumes, I adore the fantasy of it all but what I don't like is the readers creating the sexual innuendos. The women most of the time are drawn with class, but readers do their own art that sexualises them far to much. "

"

Most villians they fight are male. Males are distracted by tummy window. Male loses fight to scantily clad woman. 
Ok maybe thats a tad simple after all they do fight female villians. However distraction is a major part of fighting whether you are feinting a punch, flapping your cape, using a smoke bomb, or bouncing your plentiful assets in your opponents face.

Now that I have made these costumes seem almost reasonable lets face the fact that most artists are men and most men love the female form. That they endow these women so well must be working because the books continue to sell. And that after all is what it is all about. If super skinny, blue haired, three fingered women sold comic books I am sure that is what you would see drawn.

"

superheroes are super, it sounds stupid but think about it. super basically means better than normal, so whether they have powers or not all crimefighters are superheroes, this is the reason i use most often when arguing with friends about whether batman is a superhero.
perfect bodies are more appealing than standard bodies, every part of a superhero exudes 'superness' so its only fair that they all have bodies like models. people are complaining about female costumes but stop and think, if it weren't for underwear batman, superman, the flash, green lantern, spider-man (need i go on?) they would all be showing their junk. a woman's is just that bit more obvious, even without the spandex. 
spandex is lightweight and very difficult to grab a hold of, baggy clothes would forever be getting pulled by criminals or caught on barbed wire leaving the hero/heroine stranded and open to attack. the ability to cope with a cape only comes with superior training, and some may claim they are superfluous and dangerous (edna mode) but they can be extremely useful when utilised efficiently.
female's without superstrength (black canary, huntress, batgirl etc.) will not be as strong as a man in the same position, even after years of training, and if they still wish to blend in with the crowd when in their civilian identities they can't walk around inconspicuously if they look like a female-body builder.
as for those heroines with superstrength, any advantage over an opponent is welcome, most criminals will be male, if they don't act because they are distracted by a cracking rack or because they underestimate a woman it makes the heroines life easier. for a male equivalent look at dick grayson's robin, y-fronts and pixie boots, he didn't need an advantage but if it takes less energy to dispatch a villain it can only be a good thing, more efficient crimefighting.
at the end of the day comic books are a form of entertainment, and if people are entertained watching 'normal' people strolling around they should watch the travesty that is Big Brother. but i hate to be the bearer of bad news, 'normal' for both america and the u.k. is overweight. fact. if you want fat superheroes stop reading comic books.
rant over, keep the sexy outfits, they are an advantage, stop complaining. the characters are not weaker because they show flesh, its just another route writers can take to get a laugh. as can be seen at the link below (image from superman/batman : public enemies).
 http://welltuncares.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/power-girl-2.gif

I agree with a lot of the comments - though I didn't read them all. I think that some of these superheros are just a little too reviling. I remember one year I wanted to trick or treat as a superhero but decided not to because I didn't want people who didn't know who I was to think I was going as a slut (since this was one of the characters who wore a leotard, and only one of my friends liked/knew superheros). But, I also think that spandex in general has practicality. If you are being stealth or moving through tight spaces a baggy t-shirt might snag or be in the way. And I agree with cbeavers2. Comic books are generally directed toward the teenage male public. I haven't met very many teenage girls or women, like myself, in general who like to read comics.  

Also, as a note, men are much more visual than women. I personally think, if men showed off or emphasized their "stuff" so to speak, I wouldn't be as interested (since I read comics for the stories) and wouldn't be caught reading them in public!! You would probably sell more comics to gay men that way, simply because most women are not as visual.

Finally, I have been tryin to read this article for DAYS. 
 
So here's the thing, don' let the Damian/Robin fool ya, I am a girl that loves her comics. But Power Girl really is one of my own biggest pet peeves. I personally don' care how much skin a girl shows, but really Power Girl's outfit makes it so hard to take the comic seriously (not that it's own content helps ANY at times) Over the top boobs with nice round cutout cleavage, not even just tactical disadvantage, just a pin-up model. But again, that could be said for, at this point I'm gonna say MOST heroines. Sure there are some exceptions like Batgirl (3 main versions, three fully covered up hotties), but then there is still those other 99 ya could name off around her in bathing suits an underwear. Yes, comics are made mostly for guys, cause most girls seem to think they have better things to do than read awesome kick-ass action, but hey, there's tactile, an then there's just scantily clad.  An most guys I know don' care if she's half naked or fully covered, as long as she's hot~
 
Though I will say I do love Canary an Huntress' outfits, myself~ ^_^

" Aside from the debate as to whether or not they are too "sexified" and lacking focus in more respectful areas such as character, there's one thing that has always bothered me about this trend.  I don't like obvious attempts at luring me in with overly sexy imagery.  It's like they're saying, "You're a primitive without any self-control, so we're going to get you to buy this item by putting a scantly clad woman on it!"  I don't like knowing that I'm being manipulated!  Trick me without being so obvious, but don't insult me. "

I'm dead-tired of this "it's a distraction" explanation.
 
 Do you honestly think any man willing to hit a woman really cares what she's wearing? As a matter in fact, I think a scantily clad woman is the perfect punching bag for a resentful, misogynistic man. It's a moot point, have you ever talked to a girl about riding the subway or walking past construction workers in a skirt or low-cut shirt? Men feel entitled enough to shout out obscenities to a woman at risk of offending her, take it a few steps further and would you really think a man would pull a punch because the girl he's beating on is just soooo hot? Men beat the crap out of attractive women all the time. I really, highly doubt that and I also don't think very many women would need or want that sort of attention in a combat scenario. 
 
The whole "fantasy" argument is pretty flaccid too, I mean it's quite obvious comics aren't set in a 100% realistic environment but somewhat like the gods in Greek Mythology, comic book characters are supposed to be human ideals that demand a certain kind of respect. Honestly, women who are banking in on their sexuality all the time in hopes to advance don't get respect. You could say it's a feminist issue but I would actually go so far as to say certain chauvinistic male characters who are always banging a different girl don't really deserve respect either. It's just a cheap avenue for any likable character to go down.  
 
I also think it's interesting to that in an effort to create strong female characters a major motivation has been to make them comfortable with their sexuality and yet does it come out as anything more than just trying to appease the opposite sex on some level? Read early Wonder Woman comics, she was fulfilling every sort of fetish for men, comic book heroines have always been allowed to be very sexual, nobody even speaks of the 70's Wonder Woman series without talking about how hot Lynda Carter was. I would say comfort with one's own sexuality means not having to exploit or fixate on it, wouldn't you?
 
One of my favorite movies is Kill Bill and in spite of the fact Quentin Tarantino is always being deemed "macho", he presented us with a woman who was stylized, strong, full of conviction, intelligent, and complex quite successfully. No sex scene, no skimpy outfit, no nonsense, she just beat the tar out of anyone who stood between her and her goals. Women loved it, men loved it, and it hit all the spots in fantastical setting because it was engaging, it may have been a variation of exploitation films on some level (like many of Tarantino's work) but it didn't go for quite the same cheap thrills with regards to the main character's sexuality. Is there any denying The Bride/Black Mamba was a worthy opponent? No. Was Uma Thurman still sexy? Yes. 
 
I think the key with female heroes is that they should be full of the same vigor and intensity of any male hero to a point where they don't need to think about a man's perspective when thrashing their enemies, they don't need think about the perception of everyone else when they tear it all down. All these examples of female heroes driven past the point of believability in terms of sexuality look so self-conscious and pathetic being reduced to hopping around in crappily designed, trampy outfits. A little skin never harmed anybody but taste distinguishes the smut from the triumphs for sure.