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Off My Mind: Does Talia Want Damian To Kill Dick?

Will Dick die before Bruce returns?

In issue 10 of Batman And Robin, "The Return Of Bruce Wayne" will begin. The actual Bruce mini series will start in May. If you've seen images of the next few issues of Batman And Robin, you know there's a bit of tension going on between Dick and Damian. While Damian seemed a little hard to get along with in the beginning, it seemed like the two were starting to get into a vibe with each other. That doesn't seem to be the case. The next arc is even called, "Batman Vs. Robin."
Along with the covers we've been seeing, the solicit for issue #10 asks:

Why would Talia al Ghul manipulate her son Damian into taking action against Batman? Will Damian do as Mother says…or stay loyal to Dick Grayson?

 Now we have to wonder, what is Talia up to? She has commented on how she believes Damian is the rightful heir to the Batman cowl but the kid is only ten years old (according to a past issue). I would hope she wouldn't think that Damian should become Batman right now. Could you imagine a little Batman running around the rooftops? So while Dick is away trying to figure out the story behind the Domino Killer, Damian is up to his own antics.

Is part of Talia's plan for Damian to also take over Wayne Enterprises? I joked before that Damian would kill Dick before Bruce returned. Damian has killed before. What kind of twist would it be to have Bruce fight his way through time only to find his first "son" killed by his last? There's also been the question of what will Dick do when Bruce returns? Bruce would go back to being Batman but Dick can't really go back to Nightwing (since Christopher Kent is using the name now). Deep down, I believe that Talia still has feelings for Bruce. If that's true, why would she want Damian to kill Dick? Perhaps she just wants Dick out of the picture so Damian can have the Wayne Empire all to himself.
Issue #10 will also have mention of the Black Glove. Could we be seeing their return soon?

  Issue #10 is on sale March 10. Written by Grant Morrison with art by Andy Clarke.
Posted by timrothsays

Young businessman Damian = win
Sure, before Bruce's EPIC return someone gonna die. My word - Talia herself

Posted by SUPER-MAN 23

I don't know of any thing that Dick Grayson did to Talia to make her want to kill him. However, if this is just so that when Bruce comes back Dick will be dead so that Bruce won't retire(which is silly, because Bruce would never do such a thing). Is the black glove really a threat now? Can't Bruce deal with them once he comes back. 

Posted by Tyler Starke

I've always wondered how Bruce would react if Dick( his favorite son) died, but I would rather see Dick survive. I don't see a problem with him going back to the name Nightwing, because I'm fairly certain that most people don't really care who christopher kent is or what he does. Grant morrison is hard to predict because I'm sure he wants to avoid like the plague anything the readers could have easily deduced as the next probable act in the Batman Series, and that's a good and bad thing. It's good because I like to be surprised but it's bad because it makes for cheap story telling when you're constant M.O. is going for the shyamalan twist every story arc. I do however like his work for the most part, but sometimes it can be a bit much with the Changing of the Guard theme stuck on a loop 

Posted by mimschkin

I was considering dropping this and switching to trades but the next arc looks really good, grr.
What I don't like is that Andy Clarke and that guy who did the last Batman and Detective Annuals draw Damian way too old. I had to repeatedly flip back to the issue where they said he was 10 to remind myself that he's not, like, 15.

Posted by DEGRAAF
yea im just starting to try to switch to all trades, so far its not working out well at all. 
is Damien the youngest person to take on the robin mantle? I hope he goes back to night wing. I definitely dont want him to die. If anything Flamebird and nightwing are fighting with Rao (Kryptonian god) next issue, i dont expect them to die but maybe after they defeat him they will ascend to gods them selves leaving the night wing name open. My question is, is he going to stay in Gotham?
Posted by Freddy.Mercurial

why do people still assume Bruce is going to be Batman again upon his return???  Isn't it clear as day that DC & MARVEL are basically running similar story lines at this point???  Bruce wont be Batman...  He will serve some "higher" purpose...  Just like your boy Steve Rogers... 

Edited by Emerald Warrior

Question: would anyone else like Damian better if it turned he's NOT Bruce's son? 
I really like the character. His arrogance, and the way he treats Dick and Alfred  ("grayson and pennyworth" lol It always makes me laugh), like just because his last name's Wayne he's the king of the world. It's a cool and different approach to a Robin...BUT... i HATE that he's Batman's son... so what do you say ppl? or do you actually like him BECAUSE he's the bat's son?

Posted by goldenkey

Damian is 10!!!!! Its so stupid.
Posted by ComiCCloseup

I'm just redy to move on to better story telling.  This has really been beating a dead horse
Posted by danhimself

it would be a good way to get things back to normal after Bruce's return.....make Damien a villain,  Dick goes back to being Nightwing, and Tim becomes Robin again

Posted by Kami

 I think this wont happen, you know why? Because DC knows that Dick is too much of an important character. They even let him live through the crisis one because they thought it wouldn't be a big shock since hes human and two because Dick is too important to the batman storyline. Also he is a major character they could put him in any comic out there because he has been there in the outsiders, the JLA, the Teen titans, Bat-family and he sells!
Don't matter how much of a d!ck Dick is I think we have to agree that he is too important to be killed; Specially by a little turd like Damian..

Posted by your_navigator

This series just frustrates me.  It's like Morrison is -pushing- Damian on us, forcing us to like him, making him his darling character.  Honestly, I only like Damian when Morrison is not writing him (See Batgirl and B:SoG).  I don't believe for a second that a 10 year old can make a car fly (Something Bruce had trouble with, Dick never did, and Tim couldn't do).  I have trouble believing that a 10 year old can know about business.  It's coming off like bad fan fiction, if you ask me.
I'd like to read a story where Damian is -not- Bruce's son.  Cause I do like Damian.  He's different and abrasive and I like that!  But, I'd like him to be a little age-appropriate.  I think Damian's character can only get interesting if he's not Bruce's son.
I'm not dropping the book, cause it's going to lead into Bruce's return, but I'm still not loving this story.

Posted by THEBlaqueBasterd
@Freddy.Mercurial: You are so right duder.. except for ONE thing...Batman isnt so much a mantle to Bruce as.. it IS Bruce..its who he IS.. whereas Nightwings.. no offense.. "filling shoes"  yeh he's done okay so far &is probly (in SOME ways) a better kind of Batman.. he's alot easier to be around thats for sure, but unlike Stevie G who is a public entity (with NO living relatives lol) WOULD Mr Wayne DO if he wasnt Batman? Hmmmm.. Morrison better pull SUMMIN out of his ass on this one.. & it better be good
Posted by MIssfitt

Bruce=Batman when he returns he will once again take the cowl because that's what he is. Also I'm not a huge fan of Damien and I'll probably hate him forever if he kills Dick lol. I'm excited for Bruce's return, he will bring normality back, meaning everything will fall into place.

Posted by Emperor Gonzo Noir

Oberon Sexton

Posted by E.I.S.A.M.
@Emerald Warrior: @Emerald Warrior said:
" Question: would anyone else like Damian better if it turned he's NOT Bruce's son?  I really like the character. His arrogance, and the way he treats Dick and Alfred  ("grayson and pennyworth" lol It always makes me laugh), like just because his last name's Wayne he's the king of the world. It's a cool and different approach to a Robin...BUT... i HATE that he's Batman's son... so what do you say ppl? or do you actually like him BECAUSE he's the bat's son? "
Dude, I flippin' love you! I have wanted this to happen ever since the little punk was brought up! His superiority complex is mainly routed around the fact that he is the son of the legendary Batman, and a reveal that this was untrue could propel this character into a whole other direction.  
What if it turned out that he was the biological son of a certain boy wonder(J.T.), and in reality Talia had a miscarriage with her baby by Bruce, and forced herself to believe Todd's child was Bruce's instead, to maintain her delusional fantasy of sharing a life with the man she constantly betrayed over her diabolical daddy. Remember, Jason spent some time with the lady when he was resurrected, and it's not hard to believe that she could form an attachment to a man close to Bruce if she couldn't have the real thing. I mean... The b*!#$ is crazy!
Posted by Redfield
@Freddy.Mercurial: No offense to Cap's legacy. But this if BATMAN we are talking about! He IS Bruce Wayne and Bruce Wayne IS Batman. They are one and the same, and the way Dick is forced to become Batman in Battle for the Cowl just proves it. Even if he has become a good Batman he still comes off as just keeping the cowl warm. Maybe it will take a while, but unless they kill off Dick (which would be awful) I still think Bruce will be Batman soon. 
Posted by Bats

Bruce needs to come back - if if it's just to smack some sense into Damien.

Posted by thatlad

What's with Damian's blue hair? 
I hope they keep Dick as Batman, simply because I'd like to see some character progression for Bruce. Something different aside from just being batman day in day out. Then after a good period of time in a new role he should be given a definitive compelling reason to return. All the build up would be worth it for the payoff

Edited by Freddy.Mercurial
@THEBlaqueBasterd: i hear what u & Redfield are saying about Bruce being Batman & Batman being Bruce, but consider this:  What IF Bruce gets over all of his issues/neurosis associated with making him the Batman???  What, with BATMAN R.I.P. & the looming Return of Bruce Wayne...  Not to mention, Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader...  Could it not be possible that Bruce may no LONGER be BATMAN in the near future?  Thus, making the Batman more of a mantle than anything else...  Just because Bruce may no longer need to be Batman, doesn't mean that Gotham won't need the Batman...  Morrison did say in an interview that his aim was "to take Bruce Wayne out of the mantle for ever" (non-verbatim)...  Maybe we are about to witness the evolution (finally) of Bruce Wayne...  Him entering the next stage of his life...  Its bound to happen, specially with him having no super-powers to speak of....  Could Bruce play a bigger role in humanity outside of Gotham City?  A higher purpose of u may?   
Posted by Freddy.Mercurial
@Redfield: Check my reply to BlaqueBasterd, since it's also a reply to u...  i want to add that i DO believe Bruce will don the cape & cowl again at some point int the future...  It just wont be as soon as everyone expects...  & i dont know that it will be permanent when it occurs...  I can say the same for ol' Stevie too! 
Posted by Bubbly Bunny

I don't think Damien will kill Dick. Because 1. Dick is to important of a character to kill  2. If Damien killed Dick imagine how Bruce would react he would completely like destroy the kid or at least his mom either one. But i hope Bruce takes the cowl back. I think if anything Dick will be happy to give it back. But ya Marvel and DC are running the exact same stories here. Cap/Bat stuck in time.Check. Former Sidekicks do not want to take up mantle. Check. Former Sidekicks decide to take mantle so nobody else will. Check. Cap/Bat come back see Former Sidekicks work and decide to let them have mantle for now....Or at least that's my prediction for the Bat storyline. Honestly i can't ever really see Dick as Batman after Bruce comes back and I hope DC doesn't push him on us like they did with Damien. Bruce IS Batman he created Batman and outside he may be Bruce but to me he always has been Batman. Dick just doesn't have to personality to be Batman. Maybe a replacement sure. But when Bruce comes back I want to see him take up the mantle. 

Posted by Son_of_Magnus

I hope someone kills Damian

Edited by jakob187

I still think that there is still a lot of potential complex storytelling with Dick as Batman.  Unfortunately, because there are so many people that are unwilling to allow that to happen (mainly readers), they will probably bring back Bruce as Batman and just make everything the same, stale world that we all know.  *le sigh*  As for Damian, I figure that'll turn into a basic "oh, well, Talia was controlling him, but at the last second, he stops and everything ends up good between him, Bruce, and Dick".  Such is the way in the world of comics.
Seriously, someone could write a great arc that explores the idea of Batman as a symbol of both fear and protection rather than just being about some man who is tortured by his own insanity.  Bruce Wayne seriously IS as crazy as everyone he fights against, and it's something that I just don't feel has been properly looked at in the comics.  With Dick as Batman, it allows the idea of "The Batman" to be a symbol for once, like Bruce has always claimed it to be.  It's not a symbol when Bruce is under the cowl, though.  It's a guy whose parents died and he feels the need to dress up like a bat and prowl the streets, delivering his own form of justice.  With Dick under the cowl, there is a LOT of potential for great storytelling that will sadly get pushed to the wayside because people refuse to deal with change in a major character unless it says "The Dark Knight Returns" on it.
All I know is that if Batman & Robin ends, and Bruce goes back into the cowl, I'll probably have FAR LESS of an interest in the Batman books than I do right now.  I love Bruce as Batman and all, don't get me wrong - I just feel that Bruce as Batman had become stale before the whole Battle For The Cowl thing. 
Then again, if the editing on Batman & Robin remains to be as poor as it has been the last few issues...then yeesh.

Posted by G-Man

I just realized that I haven't really thought about Bruce/Batman with Damian/Robin. That seems kind of weird. Wonder if that'd work.

Posted by Illyana Rasputin
@goldenkey said:
" Damian is 10!!!!! Its so stupid. "
Posted by goldenkey
@Illyana Rasputin said:
" @goldenkey said:
" Damian is 10!!!!! Its so stupid. "

were you gonna say something?????
Posted by Dark Sprite

I feel sorry for Dick. He's probably going to have a mess of trouble to deal with. If the Black Glove return and Damian out to get him, I fear for his safety. Haha I doubt they would kill him off. Also, could it be possible the Talia manipulated Damian while he was in her care an issue or two back? I am having a hard time believing that Damian would just snap. I am aware that he is a little out of his mind sometimes, but this just seems unlike him. 
I cannot wait until Bruce comes back!! I will be just as excited as Tim. Ha
Edited by Dane

Damian comes out with some funny stuff but Tim Drake was a better Robin by about 500%. 
I honestly still don't think of Dick as Batman. He feels like a fill-in at best and he was much better as Nightwing. He was his own man and made his own choices and I liked that a lot better.

Posted by -Eclipse-

I'd believe Dick as Batman if he didn't insist on calling Alfred "Alfie" all the time. 
Alfie is my dog's name, for Pete's sake. It ruins his cool-factor.

Edited by DEGRAAF
@-Eclipse-:  Yea i think the writer was trying to have Dick make the role more of his own and thats one part that he screwed up on, i could understand calling him that every blue moon  but not every time he says Alfred's name.
Sure seems like she was trying to kill him.
Posted by -Eclipse-
You wanna put a freakin spoiler tag next time you wanna spoil something? -__-
Edited by DEGRAAF
@-Eclipse-:  sorry i was thinking this issue came out last week. And it came out two days ago so i thought everyone else would have read it before me by now. It wont let me put a spoiler now to cover it up for everyone else. Again im sorry. Also there is supposably an even bigger spoiler at the end
EDIT- Finally got it to work
Posted by -Eclipse-
@DEGRAAF said:
" @-Eclipse-:  sorry i was thinking this issue came out last week. And it came out two days ago so i thought everyone else would have read it before me by now. It wont let me put a spoiler now to cover it up for everyone else. Again im sorry. Also there is supposably an even bigger spoiler at the end "
Well, just a note for the future, but it's best to avoid ALL spoilers for any recent comics unless you're using the spoiler thing. Not everyone can get to the comic store every week, I only go once a month.
Posted by DEGRAAF
@-Eclipse-:  wow, yea sorry