Comic Vine News

66 Comments

Off My Mind: Could Flashpoint Batman Survive the DCU Revamp?

Flashpoint could have something to do with the new DC relaunch.

September marks the beginning of a new era in the DC Universe. DC has made it clear that it's not a reboot. We've seen some solicits that acknowledge past events still exist in continuity such as Dick Grayson spending time as Batman. Seeing slight differences in character designs have raised speculation among readers and many find it hard to believe this is not a reboot.

As Flashpoint continues to unfold, it's becoming evident that there will indeed be a connection between the end of Flashpoint and the beginning of the "New 52" titles in September. We're seeing a new world of characters during this event and with all the work of fleshing out the characters, it's hard to believe that all that creativity will be swept under the rug and forgotten.

If there is a strong connection between the world of Flashpoint and what the DC Universe will become in September, what are the chances of Flashpoint characters surviving the transition? If Barry Allen and Booster Gold are able to exist in the Flashpoint world, what are the chances for a character like the Flashpoint version of Batman making it over in over into the regular DC Universe?

== TEASER ==

Let the warning go out that may be some minor spoilers about the current issues of the Flashpoint comics.

In The World of Flashpoint #2, there is a conversation between Madame Xanadu and Traci Thirteen. What is curious about this is when Madame Xanadu mentions another world. This gives the impression that this Traci Thirteen could have a role in the DC Universe that will exist after September. Who else will have a role?

There was also the reveal of the the Resistance in Flashpoint #3. There was a certain Wildstorm character that appeared. We know Grifter is getting his own series in September and this will establish him in the proper DC Universe rather than the separate Wildstorm Universe.

What we will most likely experience at the end of Flashpoint is some sort of event that will cause the Flashpoint universe to revert back to the normal DC Universe except some things will be different. This is be something like the Superboy Prime punch we experienced before that will change some continuity and cause minor changes moving forward.

If this is a way for Grifter, Voodoo and others to make it into the DC Universe, what's to prevent a Flashpoint character like this world's version of Batman to come over as well?

If you've been reading Flashpoint or Flashpoint: Batman - Knight of Vengeance, you know that Batman is Thomas Wayne. How crazy would it be to have Thomas Wayne alive in the DC Universe? This might feel like too much of a stretch since the minor changes that seem evident aren't completely changing characters' histories and origins.

I'll admit having Thomas alive could be too much for Bat-fans to accept. If he was alive, that would change Bruce's motivation to become Batman. This would rewrite everything there is about who Batman/Bruce Wayne is.

Chances are, it will matter.

But what if Thomas has been alive all this time? We've seen seeds of the idea from Grant Morrison and Doctor Hurt (who we know is not Thomas Wayne). Reading Flashpoint and Thomas' interaction with Barry Allen, you get the impression that he is working with Barry for one reason, to ensure his son, Bruce, lives.

Depending on how any time ripple effects changes things, I could see Thomas surviving Flashpoint and literally living in the shadows. It could be that the point he is aware that he's in a different world, it would be too late to reunite with his son. If he sees everything that Bruce has accomplished as Batman, he could be content to sit back and admire what his son has become.

Whenever 'history' is rewritten, there's usually some event that causes the person in hiding to come out. There could be a reason for Thomas to suddenly reveal himself to Batman, whether it's himself or in another costumed guise, that's just minor details. If we wanted to get even more cliché, when Thomas makes his crossover journey, maybe he lost some of his memory as Barry was starting to forget his world when trying to regain his speed powers.

Flashpoint Batman is a cool character but the reality is, he wouldn't fit into the regular DC Universe. So far we've seen the solicits for the first two issues of the Batman-Family books. There hasn't been any sign of Thomas still being alive but there's always the chance he could pop up later. If we can see characters like Grifter suddenly be part of the DC Universe and Superboy's origin getting some tweaks, why wouldn't it be possible for a character that existed in the Flashpoint world to suddenly appear as well?

66 Comments
  • 66 results
  • 1
  • 2
Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt

its possible but not probable
Posted by Emperormeister734

he survived the Omega Sanction I'm sure  he'll make it through the Flashpoint

Posted by Scarlet_Rogue

So Thomas Wayne would be like the DCnu's version of Dark Beast?

Crazy idea Tony. I think you drank too much of that Prime Punch.

Posted by CanucksXVX

i was thinking the exact same thing
Posted by NightFang
@Avenging-X-Bolt said:
its possible but not probable
Agreed.
Posted by Feliciano2040

Tony, I love you, but sometimes you make me facepalm hard.
 
Flashpoint is happening in the main DC universe, Barry Allen stated it himself in the second issue, regardless of what we may think of events, it's not a separate unrelated elseworld story (not saying you said that, just clarifying).

And IT IS a reboot:
 
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/ten-dcnu-myths-busted-110629.html
 
They're doing the same thing as Crisis On Infinite Earths, only that they are keeping certain backgrounds and events as part of some of the characters.

Edited by DocX

I wish. I'd buy a Thomas Wayne batman book like a shot, even it was just an elseworlds series and not a part of the DCnU

Posted by TDK_1997

Not a chance

Posted by turoksonofstone
@DocX said: 
I wish. I'd buy a Thomas Wayne batman book like a shot, even it was just an elseworlds series and not aprt of the DCnU
If they had the Gall to run with him I would buy it and applaud them.
Posted by Grim

lol i thought this was obvious. The moment they announced the revamp i knew half the crap that happens here would spill over.

Posted by jubilee042

who knows anything can happen with dc

Posted by GraveSp

If Thomas exists why would Bruce need to be Batman?  If his father was suddenly alive he would probably want to spend all his time with him and not spending his nights fighting crime and his days sleeping.

Posted by mbembet

flashpoint is a stupid story wrote by an overrated writer thank GOD GL movie FAILED :P

Posted by CrimsonTempest
@mbembet said:
flashpoint is a stupid story wrote by an overrated writer thank GOD GL movie FAILED :P
Troll unsuccessful. Sit back and let the grown-ups talk, thank you.
 
Now onto the topic, this is a rather touchy subject. As how Thomas Wayne is being shown in this Flashpoint saga, he has become one of the more interesting angles in this series, which can warrant his chances of surviving the transition into the DC Universe. The points you made are valid, and I would be lying if I said I didn't want that to happen. 
 
But if Bruce was to be aware of his existence, and he'll always find a way to stay on top of things as they happen, he would feel that his life's work would be for nothing. Moreover, would Thomas really want to live in a world where his own world, specifically his wife and son, are gone for good, and that there won't be a plausible chance of their return? Sure, he'd be content to see Bruce alive and well, but it's not really his Bruce, and vice versa.
 
With that said, I am ultimately open to the idea.
Posted by Eyz

Well, Element(al?) Woman seems to survive Flashpoint right through the upcoming new JLA, so...anything's possible it seems!

Posted by Lamenoire
@mbembet said:
flashpoint is a stupid story wrote by an overrated writer thank GOD GL movie FAILED :P
No. Flashpoint is an interesting story, putting characters in situation they would never be in the regular DCU. If you din't like it, it's your problem. 
 
I think Flashpoint Batman is really interesting. An ongoing or a miniserie (with more issue than Knight of Vengeance) would be really awesome. 
Maybe they could make the World of Flashpoint survive in the multiverse
Posted by EnSabahNurX

I REALLY want this Traci Thirteen to get an ongoing because I really like this flashpoint version, and it would be interesting if thomas wayne was still alive but I think it would be too weird that he had been in hiding for all of bruce's life.

Posted by primepower53
@Avenging-X-Bolt said:
its possible but not probable
Posted by Fnz

In my opinion, they rather leave the Flashpoint universe and go with Thomas Wayne title in it than throw Bruce's daddy in regular DCnU. For me, even in reboot bringing back Thomas Wayne will be TOO MUCH of messing with Batman's story.

Posted by Transmetal
@mbembet
If you have a point say it, don't just complain you don't like it, Give reasons. I think Flashpoint hasn't done a bad job, I like the changes in certain characters particuarly Batman and Green Lantern
Edited by hitechlolife

Grifter will  'awaken' with his history rewritten to some extent, along with everyone else as part of the new DCU. Thomas Wayne is different. He's already an important part of new DCU - the dead father (and catalyst for) Batman. That can't change, as it would destroy the character. If he abandoned Bruce when Martha died it just makes him kinda pathetic. I don't think he's going to be the interesting figure from Flashpoint. The only way Thomas should survive,is to have it be akin to something like Dark Beast coming to the  Marvel U after Age of Apocalypse. I mean this is a Batman, he's probably got a plan for this.

Posted by The Poet
@Avenging-X-Bolt said:
its possible but not probable
To quote my favorite character: 

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

so we shall see, won't we? MAHAHAHAHAHA!
Moderator
Posted by Sakurafire

I would rather not have Thomas and Bruce going at each other.  They would not see eye to eye and we would end up with another Battle for the Cowl... 
As much as Thomas has came into the character of Batman, I don't think he would fit into the Bat Family.

Posted by fodigg

Hmm. I don't see how that could work unless Bruce rejected him entirely as a father figure.

Posted by Golden Cod

There could be a reason for Thomas to suddenly reveal himself to Batman, whether it's himself or in another costumed guise

 
If this were Marvel, the NoBody character in DC's October solicits would turn out to be Thomas Wayne.   That BETTER not be the case!
Posted by Lamenoire
@Fnz said:
In my opinion, they rather leave the Flashpoint universe and go with Thomas Wayne title in it than throw Bruce's daddy in regular DCnU. 
I didn't undestand what you meant there : a Batman title that happen in the Flashpoint world (with Thomas as Batman)?
Posted by G-Man

@Feliciano2040: In that same article:

Sure, those new characters and concepts in Flashpoint were cute, but did anyone really think they'd stick around?
Turns out they will, and as time goes on, we're finding out that more and more of them will be part of the DCnU.

My point is if characters like Grifter, who did not exist in the DC Universe before can appear in Flashpoint and then make it over when the universe reverts back why not other characters? I know Thomas is a stretch. I don't want it to happen. I'm just throwing in the possibility of what if it did. It could be cool, even if it'd be completely wrong. But we've seen crazier things happen.

And I love you too.

Staff
Posted by ShadowX

The easy thing to do  would be, just litteraly have Thomas Wayne from Flashpoint jump to the DCNU, like how Dark beast, the sugar-man, and the other AoA characters escaped to the main marvel universe. So therefore the main Bruce Wayne's dad is dead still, but Thomas Wayne is in  the DCNU.

Online
Posted by Fhiz

I don't think he should, it would take away something from Bruce's character. In comics, there are like three characters who really need to stay dead, and those are the Waynes and Uncle Ben. Flashpoint gets away with it just based on the nature of the story, but knowing Geoff Johns, Thomas will probably die heroically. 

Posted by DeawonCDelaney

Bringing back Thomas Wayne (alternate reality or not), is bad for business it would basically rock Batman history to the core and if there is one thing they do not need to touch (anymore) is Batman's history . Now to the what if section of my comment, if your going to bring Thomas Wayne back he has to be a bad guy (with a hint of anti-hero). He has has to come into the regular universe overwhelmed that his "son is alive" but torn apart by his sons crusade, he needs to keep to the shadows (call him the Bat), find a way to amass a fortune, and stay off of Bruce radar. The last step is that he needs to start killing Bruce's enemies and when I say enemies I mean taking out Batman's big four and that's Joker, Riddler, Penguin, and Catwoman (can you imagine The death of Joker, or funeral for a foe story arch). 

Posted by SandmanEsq

We're discussing comics, so anything is possible.  I think the more salient question is whether Thomas Wayne "surviving" Flashpoint and entering the DCnU will sell more books, even in the short run.  As several have noted above, the very core of Bruce Wayne as Batman is to prevent the horror he suffered, witnessing his parents murder, doesn't happen to someone else.  If Thomas survives, part of that grief that drives Bruce could be lost.  However, if this is more of a "Dark Beast" situation than "survived the Joe Chill encounter", then there is the possibility for Bruce to grow from seeing his "father " be a cold, calculating, driven brute.  Maybe a "living" Thomas Wayne can make Bruce Wayne a better Batman, by showing him the one thing nobody else has been able to, that being that single mindedly driven is not always good.  Pretty good lesson to learn from a father, no?
Posted by Walker2814

As a few people have already mentioned, I think its obvious that the "new 52" will be a mashup of Flashpoint meets current continuity.  One thing I don't get is why everyone seems to think that if Flashpoint's Thomas Wayne carried over to the New 52 that it would make Bruce question his choice to become Batman.  Bruce still would have grown up with his parents being murdered, this Thomas is not the father that was gunned down in Crime Alley.  Actually, Flashpoint Batman has been responsible for the deaths of numerous Flashpoint criminals at that very spot.  Something that could set up some very interesting interactions between "father and son."  Bruce would not be pleased by how Thomas choose to honor his memory setting in motion great inner conflict on the part of both characters. 
 
All that being said, my guess is that Thomas Wayne sacrifices himself at the end of Flashpoint in order to setup the New 52 as a type of penance for the wrongs that he committed in the name of "vengeance."  I don't think Thomas would want Bruce to see what he became.  But there will definitely be a lot of bleed over characters and plot threads, my hope is that the Flashpoint Superman snaps current continuity out of his Forrest Gump-like walk across the country.

Posted by Gambit1024

If he does, he's not allowed to live in the same universe as Bruce Wayne.

Posted by okayla

Because if any books needed more people, it's the Batbooks.

Posted by RonCatapano

I already posted this over on ICV2 but if only Bruces mother was killed and Thomas Wayne became the first Batman you could have his anger tempered by Bruce surviving. Thomas could also train Bruce, maybe as the first Robin or Nightwing, so that he could pick up the mantle of Batman later. 
 
Thomas would also take under his wing, others who had been survivors of violence such as Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, & Tim Drake. 
 
As Thomas ages, Bruce takes over as Batman and Thomas takes on a role similar to the one taken by Bruce in Batman Beyond and it would be Thomas Wayne that creates "Batman Inc.".
Posted by Kal'smahboi

No, they wouldn't do that. I could potentially see an alternate universe splitting from Bruce's in which Thomas is alive, but he'll be dead in Bruce's universe all the same after the reboot.

Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus

That would be interesting as all hell to have Thomas Wayne be in the DCU following Flashpoint when the revamp comes. That could conceivably become a new "Batman and Son" storyline if it were to be..except instead of Bruce and Damian, its Thomas and Bruce this time. That would be great!

Posted by sesquipedalophobe

It is a reboot. The only problem fans have with a reboot is change, but since Flashpoint is typically an Elseworld's story gone rampant in the main universe then people shouldn't have any issues with all of the drastic changes and approval throughout the entire run (Flashpoint's run). I don't have a problem with it at all, except the crappy costumes with the armor, lines and robot boots. I'm surprised I didn't see bumper stickers on their torsos. Dupont Superman would finish villains first, for sure.
As far as Thomas Wayne goes, what role might he play outside of a voyeur intending no harm except to simply admire his son? His leaping from the gritty to Gotham City without speculation of his existence would leave the biggest question: if he's here, who was Thomas Wayne? What would be the purpose of a cold father figure who knew no son admire the one without a father figure? If this reboot directly affects everything, then none of the character development for the flashpoint characters should matter as they're disposable plot devices in the first place. It's plot hole after plot hole, and I think this is what DC intended to get rid of in the first place. I'm sensing Kal-L/Powergirl wishful thinking.
My only question is how would things affected on earth make Superman considerably younger?

Posted by Obsurity

I don't think Flashpoint: Batman will make it out to DCU. Although, it would be an interesting take because of the interaction between the 2 characters.  
 
Intially: Bruce would probably think that Thomas is Hurt 
Two: Thomas takes a similar stance to Jason, killing his victims. What would Bruce think, react to a Batman doing this? 
Three: Would Thomas be proud for all Bruce has done? All these villians are still running around
Posted by Feliciano2040
@G-Man said:

@Feliciano2040: In that same article:

Sure, those new characters and concepts in Flashpoint were cute, but did anyone really think they'd stick around?
Turns out they will, and as time goes on, we're finding out that more and more of them will be part of the DCnU.
Wow, I didn't say any of that !
Posted by ThomasElliot
@Emperormeister734:  
 
lmfao... its not an attack or trying to be a troll... but that quote means you haven't read Flashpoint at all!  Flashpoint Bats is NOT Bruce Wayne.  Thats not even a spoiler because the blog already told you.
Posted by ThomasElliot

Am I still  the only person who thinks its uncanny that there's 52 new comic titles in the DCU, where there are 52 established alternate Earths?

Posted by SupahGiggles

I've really come to love Thomas Wayne as this universe's Batman, but having him alive and well in the proper DCU would just be too much. That would be a major change to Bruce's character and I've had just about enough of all the changes with Bruce already now adays.
Posted by Outside_85

Flashpoint is the DC Rehoot, Zoom messes it all up, Barry fails to put it back together completely as it was. So Element Woman and the Wildstormers will make it past september, lots of other things wont because they never happened in the Flashpoint world. 
 
Sigh...another thing that points to there will never have been a New Teen Titans...

Edited by spideybigtime

I don't know if it would be great if they did bring him into the regular DCUN, but I would really love an ongoing or a 6 or 5 issue limited series about him facing other flashpoint versions of villains.

Posted by UnosInfinitos

It's Batman, why is there doubt in your mind?

Posted by LoatheMe

haha. no. not even a tiny chance.  all the obvious common sense reasons aside, that would ruin the dramatic climax of Flashpoint where Thomas willingly sacrifices himself so that the world can go back to "normal" and Bruce will be alive again. (come on you know it's coming, they couldn't possibly telegraph it any more).
 
or...you know...there's 2 months worth of solicits for most of the relaunch books and all the Bat-titles now. anyone see any Thomas Wayne anywhere?

Posted by The Mighty Monarch

One of the characters in the full JLA roster shown appears to possibly be Element Girl. So it sounds like there is a chance for Flashpoint characters to bridge over. What would be cool, is if at the very least Batman: Knight of Vengeance could be expanded upon in a Elseworld's story or something.

Posted by hrodvitnir

Like others have stated, I agree bringing back Thomas Wayne to the DCnU is not going to work, and for the reasons most have already stated, but lets not forget (whether or not this story holds in the DCnU) we basically just read about Batman's reaction to his fathers resurrection in Morrison's run on Batman, the whole Doctor Hurt thing would play itself all over as Bruce initially refuses to believe that it could be true.   
 
And as I said, yes that whole story arc could go bye-bye in the DCnU but they can't retcon our memories of reading the said arc.  And it would be folly of them to have someone try to rehash the same story with a new twists so soon.

Posted by Mrs. Tim Drake

I'm waiting for Flashpoint to become a tpb so i haven't been keeping up much except for these blogposts.  
Quick question: which issue is that first picture from? The one guy wearing the red and black with jeans looks like Tim Drake. 

  • 66 results
  • 1
  • 2