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Off My Mind: Continuity in Comic Books is No Longer Important

Characters often appear in different titles with no explanation when they are occurring.

There was a time when comic books strived to maintain continuity. Readers often can be sticklers when a character appears in more than one title. We want to know when each story takes place in relation to one another. A character can't be in New York in one story while appearing in another dimension in a comic published in the same month.

As certain characters rose in popularity, it made perfect sense that publishers would try to capitalize on that and have their character guest star in as many issues as possible. It was a toss up of how much coordination was given in keeping track of all the appearances. Eventually, readers simply had to accept that the popular character suddenly gained the superpower of appearing in just about every comic book title the publisher put out.

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With more big and small events occurring in comics these days, characters are appearing in more titles than ever. We are sometimes getting an explanation where each story falls in a timeline but it's becoming more of a common practice to simply ignore the timeline. Does having a character appear in several stories enhance the reading experience or does it ruin the integrity of the publisher and writers?

== TEASER ==
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One of the first major crossovers that comes to mind is 1984's Secret Wars from Marvel. The twelve-issue mini-series kicked off in several character and team books with the heroes suddenly disappearing when investigating a strange structure that suddenly appeared. The following issue showed the heroes return, many with major changes as the mini-series began it's twelve month run. There was a lot of coordination here. The individual writers for the Avengers, Fantastic Four, X-Men, Spider-Man titles and all the other characters involved had to know the outcome. Some characters got new costumes while some teams had new rosters. It was clear when Secret Wars took place in relation to each individual issue.

When Superman was appearing in four different monthly titles in the 80s and 90s, readers knew which book to read first. Put out on a monthly schedule, the cover of each comic had a number that told you which week it fell in. If Lois Lane was in Africa writing a story, the chances were she would still be there in the other titles or on her way back to Metropolis. Each issue often featured its own villain and showdown with Superman but there was an overall connection within this Superman-universe.

Spider-Man and Batman also had multiple titles. Spider-Man might be fighting Hobgoblin in 'Amazing Spider-Man' but battling the Spot in 'Peter Parker, the Spectacular Spider-Man.' Batman could be at the mercy of the Joker in 'Detective Comics' but also in another country talking to Ra's al Ghul in 'Batman.' It wasn't always clear when each story took place unless the editor put in an editor's note somewhere in the comic.

A week in the life of Wolverine.
A week in the life of Wolverine.

In the 90s, Wolverine, the Punisher and Ghost Rider all rose to popularity. It got to the point where you practically couldn't open a Marvel comic without seeing one of these characters. To this day, Wolverine remains one of the busiest heroes around. He has numerous solo adventures in his two solo books while remaining an active member of the X-Men, X-Force and New Avengers. It was in Wolverine #73 where Marvel decided to give us an idea how he manages to appear in so many different books.

DC has 'The New 52,' which has given all its titles a fresh start. We have seen a couple minor guest appearances in other books by Superman and Batman but each titles is focusing on the individual character rather than try to show their place in the new DC Universe. Marvel appears to have thrown out the idea of continuity. Some titles such as 'Captain America' and 'The Mighty Thor' are taking place in their own continuity. Fear Itself is the major Marvel event with both characters heavily involved. Their main solo titles make no acknowledgement to the event. Captain America, while struggling with the loss of Bucky and his shield being shattered in 'Fear Itself' has his shield back in 'Captain America' and is still in his old Super Soldier uniform in the pages of 'Secret Avengers.' To make things worse, unless I missed something, he was turned into the Spider King in Spider-Man's Spider-Island mini-event. We have no idea what the order of each story is.

When does Avengers: Children's Crusade take place? Actually, who cares? The story rocks.
When does Avengers: Children's Crusade take place? Actually, who cares? The story rocks.
Does this story still count in 'The New 52'?
Does this story still count in 'The New 52'?

Perhaps continuity shouldn't be so important. It just might be something we should let go of. Batman has 'Batman,' 'Detective Comics,' 'Batman and Robin,' 'Batman: The Dark Knight' along with other Bat-related titles such as 'Nightwing,' 'Batwoman' and 'Batgirl' he'll probably appear in as well as 'Justice League' and 'Justice League International.' With a less tighter control over Batman's continuity, readers won't feel obliged to read every single appearance. If one particular title isn't to their liking, they can choose to pass on it. 'Captain America' is giving us an interesting story that doesn't have to worry about where he's appearing in each Avengers title. 'Avengers: The Children's Crusade' with it's bi-monthly schedule has been one of my favorite stories this year. It screams against the idea of continuity and because I enjoy it so much, I really don't care how Doom's appearance relates to his Future Foundation time. DC finally released Teen Titans: Games, a book twenty-three years in the making. This book is 100% pre-'New 52' and I couldn't be happier to finally read it. It doesn't matter how it might fit in with any tweaks that have occurred to the characters. It's an exciting read with characters I love so that's good enough for me.

Also with 'The New 52,' there's been the question of what has happened before and whether or not those events and story arcs still exist or have been erased. This is a little bit different than worrying about regular continuity. Having Batman popping up in several titles in one month is one thing but if major story arcs are no longer considered part of his history, that's another story. Most of us know the story of Damian's...conception but that was later modified when Grant Morrison brought the character back. I don't want characters' history erased but worrying about when each individual story happens currently isn't worth fretting over.

Readers have to be flexible. Having multiple appearances of their favorite characters is a good thing (assuming they're all well-written). If we get hung up on which event happens before the next, it takes away from the reading enjoyment. Unless there are major repercussions happening, it shouldn't really matter. Comics are being collected and read in trade paperback format so continuity is becoming even less important. Superheroes can do a lot of amazing things. We just have to accept that one of those things is appearing in several good stories. As long as the quality is there and we're having fun reading them, when they happen in relation to each other doesn't really matter anymore.

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kiss_lamia

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Edited By kiss_lamia

Its seems to have gotten to the point of ridiculous when it comes to continuity marvel has just gone out the window its placing far to many characters in different titles without any time frame whats over, and on top of that they erase characters histories completely at times which agravates me to know end, i mean spending time and money you invest in your faves characters over the years to have suddenly a total change of character or a shadow version which is just echo of the character and what there capable off is upsetting. Its like our characters have no purpose than to be minor plot twists to plots that aren't that good, i remember the days it took a good story arc of many issues for the story to be shaped into a decent plot now its just blah blah blah thrown into a few issues and its supposed to make sense (Load of hogwash). They need to start hiring writers that can keep to continuity and can explain a character's motives instead of where changing this for no reason mainly coz we suck at writting and only art intrests us, well they better think again because comics are getting weaker and weaker and they will be losing alot of fans.

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dvorak

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Edited By dvorak

I care about general continuity to the point that I want to make sure there's nothing crazy and conflicting, but the biggest barrier to any new comics reader is the overwhelming sense of "what did I miss in the last 20 or more years?"

It was to me at least. I love a 8-12 month story arc with some big changes as a result, but there's better ways to finesse things so that 3-4 years from there you don't have to go back and read every issue in-between to get back into the story thread if you dropped a title at some point. If there's a good story, I'll read it, but I hate to see good minis and one shots ignored because of the "isn't continuity, don't care" attitude.

I do feel that publishers should be a lot more flexible about the characters and backstory. If there is an awesome new backstory that is somehow cooler or more meaningful than what Stan Lee wrote for Spider-Man, I'm totally willing to read it. It's not like my old issues suddenly disappear, or another writer can't just pick up from the old story line.

The New 52 was a good idea, basically because comics needs more new people than even read comics at this point. I saw a damn TV ad for the new Justice League a couple weeks ago. The only way they're going to get new readers is to erase any doubts they might have about not getting the most out of the stories they pick up, and hope old readers enjoy them just as much.

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WBNeve

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Edited By WBNeve

This was an interesting read, I don't follow to many comics but the ones I do follow, I like to know the precedence of what is happening when. I like to know if one hero faught someone before or after another, if and only if something major had occured in the fight, such as a character dies or the hero learns a new tactic. Usually I'm fine with minor instances in the storyline not "adding" up though.

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Jnr6Lil

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Edited By Jnr6Lil

Continuity hasn'tbeen important since DC had Pre Zero Hour, Zero Hour, Post Zero-Hour, Earth-1, Earth 2, New Earth, etc.

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Frobin

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Edited By Frobin

Sorry, but in my opinion this whole article is crap! You just gave an overview about the tendency of publishers to let continuity down for business reasons (while the comic business is going down! So maybe not a so smart decision) ... and then you argue, because they did so, it's good ...but it's not! We don't have to be that flexible ... nope ..

It's just crap and not very well-thought-out ... if you consider each character as a brand, you are promoting chaos brand management ... but a brand has to be coherent in all his appearances and ... I could write an essay about why all you wrote above is wrong ... but what for ... if you just want your (assumed well- written - what is well-written without continuity and coherence?) stories ... it would be like to cast pearls before swine.

Off my mind is often so damn weak!

Update: And if you didn't mean "continuity" (history of a character, coherence of an character, writing within character), but just timeline or simultaneity (or seemingly simultaneity of 2 or more stories) ... why speaking of continuity? Then you have a totally wrong understanding of continuity ... it has nothing to do with the timeline (since the timeline can of course be changed with a new story).

It's the essence of good writing in superhero comic books that the writer stays within the character's history or continuity ... of course some less important stories for the core of the character can be ignored ... but even if not: Changing continuity is no big thing FOR A GOOD WRITER ... in fact the irrelevance of the timeline of fictional stories is the main instrument (beside reality changing events) to change continuity. It always happend in the history of superhero comic books (I remember the much better article about the origin story of Green Lantern and the role of Sinestro on this page).

AND it's the problem of the new writers (often coming from other genres of writing): They want to override continuity to tell stories totally free of the history of the character, to set their creativity free of the boundaries of cnontinuity ... which of course is much easier, then you have just to tell a thrilling or engaging story ... but it's the best way (and mostly it happens) to dilute the core of the character or just invent another character very similar to the original. It's just lame ... continuity is the essence of superhero universes, it can be changed, rewritten, changing the timeline or past events is an important tool to work with continuity ... BUT NEVER will continuity be UNIMPORTANT for superhero universes like Marvel and DC ... you can reboot it (like DC did ... ähm not really) or start an alternative one (like Marvel did with Ultimate universe ... just to totally break it again with Ultimatum .... and then setting up an totally new one) ... but you will always create a new one and it will ALWAYS BE ESSENTIAL to the fans of this character and universe. Fact!

The timeline is totally different from continuity ... and so all you've written above in your articel is crude jabber. Sorry, but fact! And a bit disappointing ...

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silverJuggernaut

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Edited By silverJuggernaut

Ive been reading comics for 25 years and i never cared about continuity. I enjoy every issue i buy.

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deactivated-5d1828448d5f0

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@ssejllenrad said:
Marvel is more notorious in ignoring minor continuity issues. Especially in the more recent arcs. You just don't know how to make up the timeline. DC is more notorious in rebooting if they feel they don't like the major continuity.  Nyehehehe!

this.
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caladbolglight

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Edited By caladbolglight

I do not like continuity issues. In fact, I wish that some superheroes should age normally, i.e they die or retire and someone else picks up the torch. I mean, Mister Fantastic was what, 30 something when he first appeared, and that was about 50 years ago.  Maybe he should think of a retirement home. And don't get my started on Wolverine. He's in abot 5 different books, all of which seem to happen at the same time.
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Primmaster64

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Edited By Primmaster64
@Nightshade50 said:

Superman has been appearing everyone in the new 52

He has?
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Timandm

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Edited By Timandm

I've been reading comic books since the 70s.... Loss of continuity is absolutely NOTHING new... It may take one about ten years or so of reading comics to start to notice.... but continuity is CONSTANTLY being lost...

But, if the industry is unwilling to let characters age, then continuity HAS to be sacrificed. There is NO WAY that a character who is young, single, and active in 1962 to have continuity 50 years later. It simply cannot be done...

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_transgojobot_

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Edited By _transgojobot_
"When does Avengers: Children's Crusade take place? Actually, who cares? The storyJim Cheung rocks."

Jim Cheung has a not-so-secret crush on Scarlett Witch. That's the only explanation I have for how smoldering hot he draws her in each. And. Every. Panel of 'Children's Crusade'.

Soooo, according to that timeline pic that was posted upthread, Steve Rogers should be having some kind of 'vision' before 'Ultron War' kicks off? Can we just have a half-a-year of NON-EVENTS in our Marvel funny books before we get to that?

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micangel

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Edited By micangel

I've been a Legion of Super Heroes fan since my first comic book of theirs with Superboy back in 1976. There have been so many reboots that I have become the consummate "go with the flow" type reader/fan because there was no choice. Granted, last three or four years I got my 80's pre crisis legion back with slight alterations and it only took 20 years. So for me it's not so much concern about when things happened but if they happened at all and if characters go MIA. I am glad this time around I didn't lose the Legion again because Supes got retro-fitted. But I am sad to see the "devastation" on the the Wolfman/Perez era New Teen Titans and missing Wally and Donna.

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Migz13

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Edited By Migz13

No. People should not care that much about how ALL these things happen in the same friggin universe. Super Heroes and comic book characters in general should be treated as they are: fictional. The more they get rooted with reality, the sillier they sound and look like which takes away all the fun of reading a comic book in the first place.

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Darkmount1

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Edited By Darkmount1

This is all so.....dizzying. Why don't they just regulate character appearances so that we don't have overexposure? Hasn't it ever occurred to comic book companies? Or are they too focused on how popular their bigger-selling characters are to notice? Somebody make them see the error of their ways! THAT'S AN ORDER!!!
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They Killed Cap!

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Edited By They Killed Cap!

I can't stand when there is obvious overlooking of continuity

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slick23

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Edited By slick23

@The_Tree said:

I like keeping continuity in effect when it involves big changes like the death of a character, or an event.

But when normal comic stories are going, I don't really care if a hero appears in several titles. I just think of these things happening closely together, and that you can mix and match which comes first, unless it's actually officially mentioned which came first.

I agree with what you said sire.

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THEBlaqueBasterd

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Edited By THEBlaqueBasterd

@Frobin: jesus.. u went IN on him..lol, but I cant fault a single word u wrote.. Its almost like 'the big two' throw these guys a bone &they just go long while "phoning it in" these days ..

Never used to be like this.. time was articles ACTUALLY used to be interesting well thought out &occasionally thought provoking..now theyre just self indulgent self edited "jabber" as u politely called it lol pandering to whatever sales agenda the Big Two have on priority.. ie Marvels messes up an entire universe &a buncha upcoming Logan appearances (again) voila! up pops this botched article denouncing the importance of one of the LONGstandin core traits of comic lore.. Continuity Connectivity

I truly believe BASE continuity IS important.. If as a reader either casual or hardcore, u get as confused as Jenna Jameson at a Bohemian Grove initiation party becoz NOTHIN ur readin makes any sense esp in relation to ANOTHER comic u jus read..ur enjoyment of said comic will dip SIGNIFICANTLY. &at the end of the day, isnt that the point.. ?

Cheers to ur tirade, hopefully others see sense

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Frobin

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Edited By Frobin

@Jnr6Lil said:

Continuity hasn'tbeen important since DC had Pre Zero Hour, Zero Hour, Post Zero-Hour, Earth-1, Earth 2, New Earth, etc.

As I argued below this is a totally wrong understanding of continuity - reality changing events, crisis or however - such events and the creation of new stories redefining or restructuring the past of a character (changing the timeline or adding events to the timeline) are instruments to change continuity and work with continuity ... it's possible to change continuity and it has been done many times ... BUT continuity for the character and for the universe is a frame for all those stories of all these different writers out there,which they have to respect ... it's the challenge for their story ideas, it's one factor that defines "good writing", changing continuity has to be plausible, it can be totally thrilling, totally unpredictable ... but somehow it has to work with the characters and the universes history and essence (that's continuity) - otherwise all these stories would just be any stories, there would be a new Batman with every writer having some great new story ideas. Chaos! And from the business point of view it may be tempting to skip continuity to sell any story and free writers form the bounderies of continuity (and therefore there were always single issues or story arcs totally out of continuity ... of course that's possible when clearly stated), BUT on the long run to relinquish continuity is like damaging or dilute a brand, it's extremely bad brand management!

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Frobin

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Edited By Frobin

@THEBlaqueBasterd: I absolutely agree with you ... base continuity is important ... you can bend it a little bit (it has been done often ... mostly because of bad writting, but the best stories came from writers working with continuity ... and of course somehow changing it ... just think of "Identity Crisis" refering to an old JLA story arc or "Hush" bringing back Jason Todd in an mind-blowing story arc ...).

Continuity is not so important for occasional readers or newbies to the character ... but the more you get into the character, the more you have a picture of the character in your mind, the more you get used to a character ... the more you will cherish continuity and consistent writing on the character!

I state that it's impossible to relinquish continuity (and therefore a short sighted mistake of the publisher/ brand owner versus an understandable wish of independent writers to do what they want with an character) ... you will just start a new one and over time you will be on the same point again. So to state continuity isn't important anymore is so noob ... it's just right to say: once in a while it's smart to reboot continuity like DC already did many times ... or Marvel did with an alternative universe ... but if you reboot you can't ignore the legacy of what happened before ... you have to retell and integrate old stories ... use them as superstore of stories to be established or retold anew and mix it with totally new ideas and stories.

In fact that's, I guess, is what DC is trying to do now ... great with Detective Stories, Action Comics and Justice League of America, ... not so great with other books or generally with the uncertainty and discrepancies of the some books (Detective Comics and JLA with Batman & Robin, Batman with Nightwing, ...).

So I totally agree: When ...

"NOTHIN ur readin makes any sense esp in relation to ANOTHER comic u jus read..ur enjoyment of said comic will dip SIGNIFICANTLY"
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boldo

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Edited By boldo

very well elaborated article to start.

continuity started for me with identity crisis-infinite crisis-52 .......

then everything went wrong again.superman and batman were popping everywhere in the DC universe.

in my opinion stand alone stories or stories that spread to a maximum of 5(FLASHPOINT) are still better than waiting for a whole year and sometimes more to find the outcome of the ARC.

publishers should give a chance for writers to exploit their possibilities but should also stop them when they are just filling papers.

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blackkitty

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Edited By blackkitty

Well, perhaps it's the aspect in my seeking some kind of rationalization, but, the idea of characters on multiple teams all over the place drives me insane. Wolverine being in outer space, Canada, europe and atlantis all at the same time to me seems like a cheap plot to try to exort money from readers by throwing popular characters into a book despite the fact it makes no sense for them to be there. Perhaps though this is the reason that my comic shop owner recommends multiple DC books to new readers for story plots, but says he can not find a single marvel story arc to recomment to readers. Something to think about.

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Jnr6Lil

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Edited By Jnr6Lil

@Frobin said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

Continuity hasn'tbeen important since DC had Pre Zero Hour, Zero Hour, Post Zero-Hour, Earth-1, Earth 2, New Earth, etc.

As I argued below this is a totally wrong understanding of continuity - reality changing events, crisis or however - such events and the creation of new stories redefining or restructuring the past of a character (changing the timeline or adding events to the timeline) are instruments to change continuity and work with continuity ... it's possible to change continuity and it has been done many times ... BUT continuity for the character and for the universe is a frame for all those stories of all these different writers out there,which they have to respect ... it's the challenge for their story ideas, it's one factor that defines "good writing", changing continuity has to be plausible, it can be totally thrilling, totally unpredictable ... but somehow it has to work with the characters and the universes history and essence (that's continuity) - otherwise all these stories would just be any stories, there would be a new Batman with every writer having some great new story ideas. Chaos! And from the business point of view it may be tempting to skip continuity to sell any story and free writers form the bounderies of continuity (and therefore there were always single issues or story arcs totally out of continuity ... of course that's possible when clearly stated), BUT on the long run to relinquish continuity is like damaging or dilute a brand, it's extremely bad brand management!

Changing the entire universe is changing continuity.

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pixelized

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Edited By pixelized

Seems like a drop in standards. They can't provide, so we should just deal with it and no longer worry.

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SiycoBat

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Edited By SiycoBat

Here's my view on this issue.

As much as continuity is necessary to draw continued interest to the comics, following comics with a continuity that possibly expands 20 or more years to fully know what happened to so-and-so is a bitch to one that is just getting into comics. If you are not so lucky as to find the issues you need to read on the internet for free or download the comics from a torrent, that means you'll have to sacrifice money and time to find the issues to keep up with the current comic that you are reading.

And it's not just money that's an issue at times, it's also just being a part of a community with fellow comic-book fans. You'd be surprised with just how annoying it is just for wanting to give your own opinion on to the comic you're reading without getting slammed and dissed by people on the forums, who were more fortunate to read and/or own most or all so-and-so's comics, for the simple reason of not following continuity. It's hard to be a part of a community that requires you to read most continuity before giving an opinion on what you read. It makes getting into comic-books an unnecessary drama and hassle on your time and money.

I think the idea of getting rid most of the continuity was a great idea. That way everyone gets to have an equal say on comics and finally just enjoy the great stories without going through the drama of decades of continuity that most likely divides the fans rather than uniting them.

Loose continuity is necessary but IMO, it is not mandatory for comics to retain continuity on every single comic-book ever published and printed.

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eiderglast

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Edited By eiderglast

Feliciano2040 said:

Somebody needs to realize, sooner or later, that the easiest way to control continuity in comic books is by applying real time progression to the stories, if characters have to age and grow old, then time really matters and you have to deal with it.

Then again, even suggesting that characters age is already sacrilege to some people.

I totally agree with this... but like a product, you wouldn't want to retire a symbol that stands for your company. The best example of a book/story that does this (the one that I know of) is Invisible. Outside of comic books would be the Star Wars books...

As for Invisible, they rarely do crossovers, and the progress of the stories are mostly linear... it obviously has a beginning and an end.

For the DC line, books i loved were Y- the last man.. very self-contained ( and it should be a movie or a tv series).

Starman- they revitalized the golden age heroes and made each character worth reading and following.

As for Marvel, I have no idea since I rarely follow them, since they make story arcs after story arcs... and the ever changing of artists.... and writers... perhaps the Chris Claremont era of X-men was good.

It's possible the rapid changes of certain stories make the character implausible to be considered ageless.

With so many things happening to a book, it's very conclusive that the passage of time should affect them. But it doesn't.

:

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bRiMaTiOn

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Edited By bRiMaTiOn

Well as long as Cyclops is with the former White Queen Emma Frost, Wolverine leads a team of murderers, Gambit turns out to be resposible for the Mutant Massacere, Betsy and Warren break up so she can be with everyones new favorite white clothed guy Fantomex, Magneto keeps bothering me about whether his intentions are good, mutants no longer exist, Spider-Man breaks up with his wife Mary Jane, B-character immoral drinking Iron Man gets popular, Joker shoots someone though the spine, Joker crosses the line of respect for children, Joker crosses the line of marriage, Robin debates hitting Joker with a CROWBAR, Batman umm BREAKS HIS BACK, popular Starfire has a lot going on behind the looks (which by the way, is not tolerated in any culture), Cyclops takes a different interpretation of Xavier's dream (HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA! That's a funny one!), Rogue isn't really truly in love with Gambit, Rogue leans towards Magneto, Rogue has a relationship with the Sentry (great panel), the debate continues whether The Human Torch should exist again, Bishop is no longer a role-model of awesome, Uncanny X-Force leader argues with Cyclops cause Cyclops can't see anything wrong with killing, and Captain America betrays Canada (wait, what's that? It was AMERICA??) well then I don't see anything wrong with Wolverine being on the East Coast and the West Coast.

In fact a week ago I was at my LCS and I said, "Wolverine is doing what he does best, on the East Coast" and then yesterday I was in my LCS and I said, "Wolverine is... on the West Coast???" We'll that took me right out of the story right then and there. I said, "I watched Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends, X-Men The Animated Series, and went to see Batman Forever because of Jim Carrey as the Riddler so this one person in two places after two weeks? Two weeks? This is unheard of! I'll never get over it!"

I flipped over the thought. So I decided to cool off. I watched Daredevil become a bad guy. Let's see, I went to the movie theater and some sort of homeless looking painted guy with scars on his mouth do some pretty clever stuff with grenades and... oh he told me some stories about his drunken father... OH! Batman sat there sucking! Actually sucking! He sucked really hard! Never has a grown man actually stood in bright offices looking so dumb while sucking so hard! The way he talked?? Really stupid!

The continuity is off though. That's true.

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armylife1124

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I can't add much more than what is being said already, but I do wish continuity was a little stronger, especially since I do not get to read many titles so I often feel a little lost.

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@fodigg said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

@fodigg: Awesome! I'll try to find the full thing then.

If you do please let me know, thanks!

You can get 'A Mile in my Moccasins' in the Wolverine Weapon X: Adamantium Men trade paperback. It's the 2nd backup story.

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@NightwalkerRevan said:

@fodigg said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

@fodigg: Awesome! I'll try to find the full thing then.

If you do please let me know, thanks!

You can get 'A Mile in my Moccasins' in the Wolverine Weapon X: Adamantium Men trade paperback. It's the 2nd backup story.

Thanks for the heads up! I'm glad to hear it wasn't forgotten about like some one-shots/mini-stories are. Time to see if I have room on the shelves to start a collection of wolverine trades.

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One thing people never seem to touch upon when it comes to comic continuity, and something which means it never really mattered in the first place, is how the buildings, technology, cars, fashion, slang and just about everything else has gone through about 70 years of change while the characters themselves have barely aged. If Batman was the proud owner of a 33k internet connection when his adventures started, it would have been an amazing technology from the future, now he'd be about 14 years out of date.

You can take the stance that it all happened "now", where "now" is the current date at the time of the comic's publication, the sliding chronology idea. That's fine, but there's have been so many events in Batman's life, all either side of characters that actually have aged, that many decades still must've passed. That's the problem, time is evidently passing but not at the rate prescribed by the changes in technology, fashion, language, culture, architecture and so on. If a storyline that was told in 1970 was meant to have only happened, say, 10 years ago, it would mean that no one had the internet in 2001 in the DCU.

Furthermore, and more crucially, adding up all of his various comic appearances (not including standalone graphic novels) a major event has occurred to him every 8 days. It's actually more than that, though, because each of those events may well have lasted for several days, even several weeks. The graphic novels themselves, such as Dark Knight Returns, take place over many weeks too, and there are dozens and dozens of such stories. So even as it stands right now, Batman has constantly being fighting super villains for 70 years worth of days. Bruce Wayne must be about 100 and hasn't had a break for 70 years or more.

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In Captain America and the Black panther: Flags Of Our Fathers, Cap is seen with his new shield at the conclusion of the story and the Howling Commandos have a black member(Gabe Jones), long before the 1948 integration of the US military ordered by President Harry Truman( as FDR did not present him with his new shield until their meeting in June, 1941, and the US did not be at war with Germany until December, it is possible that the mission alluded to in the story was a "black ops"(ie unofficial) one, but I still think continuity is important!

Terry

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The Week in the Life of Wolverine pic is my new wallpaper.

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I don't see the point in collecting monthly comics if continuity is increasingly going by the wayside. Then comics become a disposable distraction that you pick up occasionally if they look cool. While I know continuity can be a barrier to new readers, the lack of it dooms the industry to an even worse fate - irrelevance.

Consistent, reasonable, well-managed continuity sells more books than its absence.

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darklighter1

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@lorex: Agree wholeheartedly. This whole bit of ignoring who is where and fighting who this month started with that IDIOT Bendis who just uses Spiderman and Wolverine in pretty much everything he writes and then it got slacker and slacker to the point where none of the individual titles mesh anymore. Thanks MARVEL!!!

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Xaviersx

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It does and doesn't matter, depending on how the characters were written and what they dealt with in and of their times. Continuity is a part of character development, a show of progress/regression. Why it may not appear important now is as adults we know the histories, often too well and more easily dismiss it. It also helps to have for a cohesive universe for multiple characters who interact. I gave up comic book reading because a shift in the focus on continuity by one of the major publishers gave me reason to believe I was wasting my time in being fanatical about being a regular consumer. There is continuity in following the business end of the comics industry, they can't reboot, recant, or reality punch it, just age and go along with time.

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@Jnr6Lil said:

@Frobin said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

Continuity hasn'tbeen important since DC had Pre Zero Hour, Zero Hour, Post Zero-Hour, Earth-1, Earth 2, New Earth, etc.

As I argued below this is a totally wrong understanding of continuity - reality changing events, crisis or however - such events and the creation of new stories redefining or restructuring the past of a character (changing the timeline or adding events to the timeline) are instruments to change continuity and work with continuity ... it's possible to change continuity and it has been done many times ... BUT continuity for the character and for the universe is a frame for all those stories of all these different writers out there,which they have to respect ... it's the challenge for their story ideas, it's one factor that defines "good writing", changing continuity has to be plausible, it can be totally thrilling, totally unpredictable ... but somehow it has to work with the characters and the universes history and essence (that's continuity) - otherwise all these stories would just be any stories, there would be a new Batman with every writer having some great new story ideas. Chaos! And from the business point of view it may be tempting to skip continuity to sell any story and free writers form the bounderies of continuity (and therefore there were always single issues or story arcs totally out of continuity ... of course that's possible when clearly stated), BUT on the long run to relinquish continuity is like damaging or dilute a brand, it's extremely bad brand management!

Changing the entire universe is changing continuity.

Yep, of course - that's what I say: changing continuity is not new - BUT IT IS IMPORTANT and the "basics of continuity" never really changed, they got modified ... modernized ... but each change of continuity, even Zero Hour ... and even the reboot now, is based on the former continuity. And if you make changes then you have to make them plausible or in a way allegeable!!! You can't setup Batman as vigilante in Detective Comics (arround say 10 years), then show Dick Grayson in Batman teenager-like and all 4 Robins already existing and then again in Nightwing #1 Grayson is a full-grown man. For example. That's too confusing ...you have to explain (different planes of time?), you can't left this open. Same for Kory in Red Hood. It's ok she's totally differen. It's ok to reboot. But if reality changed, it's too cheap and to silly to say the realities are sort of overlapping ... so she is new on Earth, some sort of dumb space bitch and still have a relation with the old (New) Teen Titans (Dick, Garth, ... ). How is it possible they even existed? You have to explain ...

So continuity is always important, even if you change it. Especially when you change it. If you want to break with continuity, then you have to do it totally different than DC (more like Marvel after Ultimatum) and tell everything anew ... but even then you start a new continuity ... you can't tell stories in a universe and in different books with characters appearing and in each book the character is different. Nope! Impossible.

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Mask of Tengu

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I think continuity is very important. Without it I care less about what is going on...

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Continuity Crook

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@krisis said:

Consistent, reasonable, well-managed continuity sells more books than its absence.

In the 30s, 40s, and 50s, there wasn't consistent, reasonable, well-managed continuity and comics volume sales relatively dwarfed those of today considerably. How were the sales of lines that did have such polished continuity like Valiant, Ultraverse, New Universe, and Milestone?

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Jnr6Lil

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@Frobin said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@Frobin said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

Continuity hasn'tbeen important since DC had Pre Zero Hour, Zero Hour, Post Zero-Hour, Earth-1, Earth 2, New Earth, etc.

As I argued below this is a totally wrong understanding of continuity - reality changing events, crisis or however - such events and the creation of new stories redefining or restructuring the past of a character (changing the timeline or adding events to the timeline) are instruments to change continuity and work with continuity ... it's possible to change continuity and it has been done many times ... BUT continuity for the character and for the universe is aframe for all those stories of all these different writers out there,which they have to respect ... it's the challenge for their story ideas, it's one factor that defines "good writing", changing continuity has to be plausible, it can be totally thrilling, totally unpredictable ... but somehow it has to work with the characters and the universes history and essence (that's continuity) - otherwise all these stories would just be any stories, there would be a new Batman with every writer having some great new story ideas. Chaos! And from the business point of view it may be tempting to skip continuity to sell any story and free writers form the bounderies of continuity (and therefore there were always single issues or story arcs totally out of continuity ... of course that's possible when clearly stated), BUT on the long run to relinquish continuity is like damaging or dilute a brand, it's extremely bad brand management!

Changing the entire universe is changing continuity.

Yep, of course - that's what I say: changing continuity is not new - BUT IT IS IMPORTANT and the "basics of continuity" never really changed, they got modified ... modernized ... but each change of continuity, even Zero Hour ... and even the reboot now, is based on the former continuity. And if you make changes then you have to make them plausible or in a way allegeable!!! You can't setup Batman as vigilante in Detective Comics (arround say 10 years), then show Dick Grayson in Batman teenager-like and all 4 Robins already existing and then again in Nightwing #1 Grayson is a full-grown man. For example. That's too confusing ...you have to explain (different planes of time?), you can't left this open. Same for Kory in Red Hood. It's ok she's totally differen. It's ok to reboot. But if reality changed, it's too cheap and to silly to say the realities are sort of overlapping ... so she is new on Earth, some sort of dumb space bitch and still have a relation with the old (New) Teen Titans (Dick, Garth, ... ). How is it possible they even existed? You have to explain ...

So continuity is always important, even if you change it. Especially when you change it. If you want to break with continuity, then you have to do it totally different than DC (more like Marvel after Ultimatum) and tell everything anew ... but even then you start a new continuity ... you can't tell stories in a universe and in different books with characters appearing and in each book the character is different. Nope! Impossible.

Ok I understand.

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@bRiMaTiOn said:

Well as long as Cyclops is with the former White Queen Emma Frost, Wolverine leads a team of murderers, Gambit turns out to be resposible for the Mutant Massacere, Betsy and Warren break up so she can be with everyones new favorite white clothed guy Fantomex, Magneto keeps bothering me about whether his intentions are good, mutants no longer exist, Spider-Man breaks up with his wife Mary Jane, B-character immoral drinking Iron Man gets popular, Joker shoots someone though the spine, Joker crosses the line of respect for children, Joker crosses the line of marriage, Robin debates hitting Joker with a CROWBAR, Batman umm BREAKS HIS BACK, popular Starfire has a lot going on behind the looks (which by the way, is not tolerated in any culture), Cyclops takes a different interpretation of Xavier's dream (HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA! That's a funny one!), Rogue isn't really truly in love with Gambit, Rogue leans towards Magneto, Rogue has a relationship with the Sentry (great panel), the debate continues whether The Human Torch should exist again, Bishop is no longer a role-model of awesome, Uncanny X-Force leader argues with Cyclops cause Cyclops can't see anything wrong with killing, and Captain America betrays Canada (wait, what's that? It was AMERICA??) well then I don't see anything wrong with Wolverine being on the East Coast and the West Coast.

In fact a week ago I was at my LCS and I said, "Wolverine is doing what he does best, on the East Coast" and then yesterday I was in my LCS and I said, "Wolverine is... on the West Coast???" We'll that took me right out of the story right then and there. I said, "I watched Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends, X-Men The Animated Series, and went to see Batman Forever because of Jim Carrey as the Riddler so this one person in two places after two weeks? Two weeks? This is unheard of! I'll never get over it!"

I flipped over the thought. So I decided to cool off. I watched Daredevil become a bad guy. Let's see, I went to the movie theater and some sort of homeless looking painted guy with scars on his mouth do some pretty clever stuff with grenades and... oh he told me some stories about his drunken father... OH! Batman sat there sucking! Actually sucking! He sucked really hard! Never has a grown man actually stood in bright offices looking so dumb while sucking so hard! The way he talked?? Really stupid!

The continuity is off though. That's true.

DUDE! Nice summary of events in the Marvel universe!

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Jnr6Lil

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@Timandm said:

@bRiMaTiOn said:

Well as long as Cyclops is with the former White Queen Emma Frost, Wolverine leads a team of murderers, Gambit turns out to be resposible for the Mutant Massacere, Betsy and Warren break up so she can be with everyones new favorite white clothed guy Fantomex, Magneto keeps bothering me about whether his intentions are good, mutants no longer exist, Spider-Man breaks up with his wife Mary Jane, B-character immoral drinking Iron Man gets popular, Joker shoots someone though the spine, Joker crosses the line of respect for children, Joker crosses the line of marriage, Robin debates hitting Joker with a CROWBAR, Batman umm BREAKS HIS BACK, popular Starfire has a lot going on behind the looks (which by the way, is not tolerated in any culture), Cyclops takes a different interpretation of Xavier's dream (HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA! That's a funny one!), Rogue isn't really truly in love with Gambit, Rogue leans towards Magneto, Rogue has a relationship with the Sentry (great panel), the debate continues whether The Human Torch should exist again, Bishop is no longer a role-model of awesome, Uncanny X-Force leader argues with Cyclops cause Cyclops can't see anything wrong with killing, and Captain America betrays Canada (wait, what's that? It was AMERICA??) well then I don't see anything wrong with Wolverine being on the East Coast and the West Coast.

In fact a week ago I was at my LCS and I said, "Wolverine is doing what he does best, on the East Coast" and then yesterday I was in my LCS and I said, "Wolverine is... on the West Coast???" We'll that took me right out of the story right then and there. I said, "I watched Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends, X-Men The Animated Series, and went to see Batman Forever because of Jim Carrey as the Riddler so this one person in two places after two weeks? Two weeks? This is unheard of! I'll never get over it!"

I flipped over the thought. So I decided to cool off. I watched Daredevil become a bad guy. Let's see, I went to the movie theater and some sort of homeless looking painted guy with scars on his mouth do some pretty clever stuff with grenades and... oh he told me some stories about his drunken father... OH! Batman sat there sucking! Actually sucking! He sucked really hard! Never has a grown man actually stood in bright offices looking so dumb while sucking so hard! The way he talked?? Really stupid!

The continuity is off though. That's true.

DUDE! Nice summary of events in the Marvel universe!

Good summary of events but judging about most of the things written Marvel is having bad events, That's one thing I don't like about Marvel, They reuse storylinesso much but just do it in a new form, Most of the struggles the characters in Marvel had 40 years ago, they are still dealing with it today. I mean seriously Schism is good and all but does it really make sense for them to start a whole war over children becoming soldiars, when children being superheroes mutants and non-mutants alike is something that again has been going on for 40 years.

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@Jnr6Lil:

Good summary of events but judging about most of the things written Marvel is having bad events, That's one thing I don't like about Marvel, They reuse storylinesso much but just do it in a new form, Most of the struggles the characters in Marvel had 40 years ago, they are still dealing with it today. I mean seriously Schism is good and all but does it really make sense for them to start a whole war over children becoming soldiars, when children being superheroes mutants and non-mutants alike is something that again has been going on for 40 years.

No, it makes no sense for them to start a ware over that... You're absolutely right...

and I couldn't agree with you more about Marvel recycling stories... It reminds of me of newpaper columnist who try to get away with the same thing. Take an article from ten years ago, change the names (i.e. put in the new Mayor's name in place of the old Mayor's name... Erase republican and put in democrat where appropriate, and change the names of obscure people references) then reprint the article...

See if you can guess which story arc I'm referring to by the description of the story

A powerful mutant recreates reality... There's lots and lots of fighting and killing... Then suddenly, that mutant changes everything back to where everything is as it was before but with slight differences. Is this story:

  1. Onslaght
  2. House of M
  3. Age of X

How about this one; A mutant hating extremist group wants to annihilate mutants, so they use giant robots to attack the mutants. Is this story:

  1. Schism
  2. Second Coming
  3. Destruction of Genosha
  4. Mastermold (Can't remember the story arc title)
  5. a bunch of others

Or; Jean Grey becomes an extremely powerful entity... but then dies... Is this:

  1. The Pheonix Saga
  2. The Dark Pheonix Saga
  3. Pheonix: War Song
  4. Pheonix; End Song

Oh hey, remember that time Marvel had a series involving a CLONE OF SPIDER-MAN?

Or, remember that time that Norman Osborn was convicted of Murder and sentenced to prison, but then he got out and began taking over the world??? (Guess who's going to be smurfing with The New Avengers ALL YEAR LONG next year? Sigh.)

Or, remember that time that two good guy super hero times ended up on the scene at the same time and started fighting each other because they didn't take time to talk first? WHICH story was that?

sigh... recycle... recycle... recycle...

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Sir_Whirlysplat

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Continuity is the last bastion of the fanboy. The sliding timescale of comics should make all things possible for everyone. I loved that recent Black Widow story which satirised the whole issue of continuity and comics 'reality' or lack of.

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Continuity Crook

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@Sir_Whirlysplat said:

I loved that recent Black Widow story which satirised the whole issue of continuity and comics 'reality' or lack of.

I don't follow Marvel much anymore, but what issue was this Black Widow story? I'd like to check it out. Thanks.

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I think stories become better with continuity. Its possible to still be inviting to a new audience while expanding on previous events. Take a history book for example. It's possible to open it to a random event and understand it without knowing what happened before. However reading up on what led up to it provides more insight. Comic books have the possibility to create long connected story lines that build and add to each other. The arcs can still be self-contained yet mention their place in the timeline. This gives a defined character development that can be shared between titles. This does limit storytelling but it forces more creativity and looking at whats happening across all archs/titles and their impact. It would prevent quick fits to a scenario. 

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Jnr6Lil

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@Timandm said:

@Jnr6Lil:

Good summary of events but judging about most of the things written Marvel is having bad events, That's one thing I don't like about Marvel, They reuse storylinesso much but just do it in a new form, Most of the struggles the characters in Marvel had 40 years ago, they are still dealing with it today. I mean seriously Schism is good and all but does it really make sense for them to start a whole war over children becoming soldiars, when children being superheroes mutants and non-mutants alike is something that again has been going on for 40 years.

No, it makes no sense for them to start a ware over that... You're absolutely right...

and I couldn't agree with you more about Marvel recycling stories... It reminds of me of newpaper columnist who try to get away with the same thing. Take an article from ten years ago, change the names (i.e. put in the new Mayor's name in place of the old Mayor's name... Erase republican and put in democrat where appropriate, and change the names of obscure people references) then reprint the article...

See if you can guess which story arc I'm referring to by the description of the story

A powerful mutant recreates reality... There's lots and lots of fighting and killing... Then suddenly, that mutant changes everything back to where everything is as it was before but with slight differences. Is this story:

  1. Onslaght
  2. House of M
  3. Age of X

How about this one; A mutant hating extremist group wants to annihilate mutants, so they use giant robots to attack the mutants. Is this story:

  1. Schism
  2. Second Coming
  3. Destruction of Genosha
  4. Mastermold (Can't remember the story arc title)
  5. a bunch of others

Or; Jean Grey becomes an extremely powerful entity... but then dies... Is this:

  1. The Pheonix Saga
  2. The Dark Pheonix Saga
  3. Pheonix: War Song
  4. Pheonix; End Song

Oh hey, remember that time Marvel had a series involving a CLONE OF SPIDER-MAN?

Or, remember that time that Norman Osborn was convicted of Murder and sentenced to prison, but then he got out and began taking over the world??? (Guess who's going to be smurfing with The New Avengers ALL YEAR LONG next year? Sigh.)

Or, remember that time that two good guy super hero times ended up on the scene at the same time and started fighting each other because they didn't take time to talk first? WHICH story was that?

sigh... recycle... recycle... recycle...

And as good as Civil War was, them not using coninuity and orginiality is what screwed the story up, Would it make sense for these heroes to fight to the death after being best friends nearly brothers and sisters for 40+ years over a registration act that's bene discussed before and probably put down, I mean civilian deaths is apart of the superhero world.

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I usually don't mind if the characters are in various titles like Wolverine being with the Avengers, but I'm big on continuity if it involves the character's history. For example, whenever I read about Wolverine becoming a nicer person recently, I often get confused about what the writers are going for his character since in the past comics I have read about Wolverine, he was always shown as an aggressive loner. Lately, the writers haven't been very consistent when it came to developing Wolverine's character and while I like the idea about Wolverine running a school, it was never mentioned in the past that he has ambitions to become a headmaster someday. If the writers had mentioned that fact in the past, I would have believed Wolverine to be acceptable in running the school if the writers had took his past actions and had Wolverine learn from his mistakes to make himself a better person. So when it comes to whenever a character changes their personalities, I want the writer to at least state the reason why the character has changed so much, even if it isn't consistent with the continuity, maybe they could explain that a tragic event had affected the character in some way and made them realized their goals in life.

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Jnr6Lil

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@Rabbitearsblog said:

I usually don't mind if the characters are in various titles like Wolverine being with the Avengers, but I'm big on continuity if it involves the character's history. For example, whenever I read about Wolverine becoming a nicer person recently, I often get confused about what the writers are going for his character since in the past comics I have read about Wolverine, he was always shown as an aggressive loner. Lately, the writers haven't been very consistent when it came to developing Wolverine's character and while I like the idea about Wolverine running a school, it was never mentioned in the past that he has ambitions to become a headmaster someday. If the writers had mentioned that fact in the past, I would have believed Wolverine to be acceptable in running the school if the writers had took his past actions and had Wolverine learn from his mistakes to make himself a better person. So when it comes to whenever a character changes their personalities, I want the writer to at least state the reason why the character has changed so much, even if it isn't consistent with the continuity, maybe they could explain that a tragic event had affected the character in some way and made them realized their goals in life.

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Rabbitearsblog

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Edited By Rabbitearsblog

@KenTheProfile said:

Batman should act like batman no matter what book he is in. same for any other charecter

Exactly! As long as the character acts the same, then I don't really mind about whether or not the continuity is right or not.