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Off My Mind: Can Heroes That Betray a Team be Trusted Again?

In the middle of a battle, heroes need to be able to fully trust their teammates.

Trust is a huge issue for many people. It's the basis of all relationships. There are different levels of trust and it can be important to know the level or degree of trust you have with another.

As with relationships, trust among superhero teams is crucial. When fighting deadly supervillains and trying to protect innocents, heroes need to know their teammates have their backs. They need to be able to trust that others will be there when they need them since letting them down in this situation could lead to serious consequences. There are also many secrets shared among members that could destroy a team if it got out or was used against them.

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In the superhero community, there are many heroes who never falter. Unfortunately there are heroes who have betrayed their teammates for one reason or another. Once they got their heads back on straight, can they fully be trusted again?

== TEASER ==

As in life, there are many factors that could lead to a betrayal. The reasons for superheroes aren't always so simple. They may have moments of great anger but there's also brainwashing, blackmail and, of course, possession. Once the hero commits the foul act, they return to the team and are usually completely forgiven. What's surprising is the number of heroes that have turned on their teams.

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Scarlet Witch may have caused the most damage against the Avengers and mutants in the Marvel Universe. When she lost her mind, she caused the destruction of the Avengers Mansion and was pretty much responsible for the deaths of Jack of Hearts, Scott Lang, Hawkeye and Vision (even if she didn't directly kill them). Some of the dead heroes came back but it's not something you can easily forgive and forget. She also reduced the mutant population of the world to under 200 by uttering a few words.

Scarlet Witch may have not been fully responsible for everything she did but she was still the cause. She wants to make amends but it's going to take a long time. Her current status or place isn't exactly known but it's going to be a long time until everyone fully trusts her again.

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What about Wolverine? During the Enemy of the State storyline, Hydra, the Hand and Dawn of the White Light teamed up to kill and resurrect superheroes and keep them under their control. Wolverine ended up attacking SHIELD, Reed Richards, Daredevil, the X-Men as well as killing several SHIELD agents and Northstar.

Obviously Wolverine was able to break his programming with some help. Despite all the death and havoc he caused, he is now publicly part of the X-Men. He is even allowed to be the headmaster of the Jean Grey School for Higher Learning. Looks like no one has a problem trusting him after everything he's done.

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Let's not forget about Batman? Whether he was right or not to keep secret files on his teammates in the Justice League of America with protocols on how to defeat them, in some ways he betrayed their trust. It was these files that were used by their enemies to defeat them.

What about Gambit? He worked for Mister Sinister and lead the Marauders to the Morlocks which caused the Mutant Massacre (which also lead to several X-Men being critically injured).

Cyclops got possessed by Apocalypse as did Angel/archangel/29-2112/. Both have been forgiven.

Bucky Barnes was brainwashed by the Russians into becoming the Winter Soldier and killed several Americans on various missions. He later was allowed to become Captain America when it appeared Steve Rogers was dead.

The list goes on.

Nobody is perfect. Heroes have a harder time dealing with the moments when they fall from grace since they are often placed up high on pedestals. If they are momentarily possessed, you can't really say it's their fault. If that is the case, how can you prove that they really were possessed and not just in a bad mood? The public usually has a short attention span and will forget when their heroes do something wrong but when the betrayal is done at a personal level (like against teammates), it's going to take a little more to get over. Forgiveness can be given but once the trust is shattered, it can take a long time to actually forget.

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4thhorseman

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Edited By 4thhorseman

They should be trusted in time. Doing something which could potentially kill your teammates, it's not something that should be forgiven so quickly. There should be fallout of some sort, regardless of the situation that led to the initial conflict.

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waezi2

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Edited By waezi2

Yeah, but the X-men are kinda a bunch of self righteous pricks (on Utopia)

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heroman

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Edited By heroman

a lot of people need to forgive and move but they dont it take time to forgive  
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TheIncredibleNightcrawler1999

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Batman.... Not his fault, it was indirect, not his fault. 
Wanda..... Not after she took all those powers. Sure, I almost enjoyed M-Day, but I really didnt like what happened after. I was honestly scared Bobby lost his powers lol. Sooo no. 
Bucky..... Well, he was a good Cap., and he WAS being brainwashed, so; YES. 
Wolvie....... Yes. He was being controlled, as much as I love Northstar... Hes trustable. He is, deep inside, a very good person (better than Cyclops anyhow IMHO lol :p)

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Zdaybreak

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Edited By Zdaybreak

I'm not forgiving Wanda for stripping Jubilee of her powers.

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fenixREVOLUTION

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Edited By fenixREVOLUTION

I think a good example of this, or maybe it's not, who knows, is The Plutonian in Irredeemable. He betrayed his team and the entire planet he defended. I can't speak as to what is currently happening or if he will be forgiven, but I doubt they'll be trusting him anytime soon.

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Or35ti

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Edited By Or35ti

@krazyman27: Ah I see what you mean. I think i remember seeing a scan where Storm turned into a crazy goddess... :p

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deactivated-5b9996f1456eb

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@Or35ti: She was revered as a god at one point, which, if you're a good (crazy) Christian, may seem evil. She once tried to stop a drought which ended up killing a lot of animals in another part of Africa that were probably endangered (think of the poor little lion cubs). She crapped out on the X-Men during a fight with Juggernaut because of her claustrophobia and cried to herself while they got their butt's kicked. And I think she snapped a bad guy's neck but I can't seem to remember what that was from.

Okay, so maybe not on super villain level, but she's really condescending which puts her right next to Galactus in my book.

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TheGremlin

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Edited By TheGremlin

If a man chooses to betray his teammates he is scum. Weak willed and individuals that could easily coerced shouldn't be trusted either.

As for Batman and his files on the league. Loyalty isn't the same thing as trust. Pretty sure Prof X did the same thing in X-Men. Neither would betray their teammates but duty comes before anything. They understood that it was possible they would have to make the hard decision in the future.

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Or35ti

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Edited By Or35ti

@krazyman27 said:

@Or35ti: That really bugged me because Storm has done plenty that might be considered super-villain esque.

Really? What's she done? I know basic X-history, but i don't know much about specific story arcs :p

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Bitchgurl

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Edited By Bitchgurl

Very interesting question! I guess it all depends. I don't think any one factor should decide, rather it will be up to the people he/she betrayed in the first place, and the reasons behind it. It will be more realistic if some people can forgive them , while others will not.

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LordRequiem

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Edited By LordRequiem

Heroes are supposedly the best of us, and so one could assume the best would be more forgiving than we petty folk, so generally I'd say shady characters probably would be given another chance.

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KidSupreme

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Edited By KidSupreme

The answer is simple .. NO

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umbrafeline

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Edited By umbrafeline

@Super_SoldierXII: too right :-)

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pahphoenix

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Edited By pahphoenix

After the Phoenix wipes out the Earth in AvX... we'll seee how everyone accepts her after putting the world back together. Hmmmmmm

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Super_SoldierXII

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Edited By Super_SoldierXII

Though certainly not always, the ends can sometimes justify the means. As is the case with Batman. Live in a world with 'Supermen' that can juggle planets and a contingency plan is not just clever, it's the only sane thing to do.

I think it really is a case by case scenario. Wolverine was mind wiped. Pure and simple. The ones who took him over are the ones reponsible for what he did whilst under his control. End of story.

And I believe Scarlet Witch can atone ... everyone can atone if given the proper tools. However, we still live in an eye for an eye society which is why we continue to perpetuate anger, hatred, violence (etc.) ... if we select these reactions and treat them as the 'norm' when judging, and punishing, even when teaching, how then can we treat these symptoms at large? We cannot. We need to show, teach, a better way when reforming the supposedly 'unreformable'.

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umbrafeline

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Edited By umbrafeline

i can never trust cyclops again. hes the reason behind the 2nd xmen break-up

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DarthShap

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Edited By DarthShap

@DIOMJK said:

In Identity Crisis, the league Mind-wiped batman because he caught them doing something immoral. very good reason to never trust anybody. Plus his actions were hardly unjustified, it was like keeping a gun in your house in case of burgalars, just because someone uses it for bad doesnt mean keeping it was an evil idea

Tower of Babel "happened" before Identity Crisis (not the events of the flashback but his recollection of them). When he remembered what the "League within the League" did to him, he created Brother Eye to keep an "Eye" on them, different story.

And your comparison completely misses the point. It is not like keeping a gun for burglars, it is having an extra gun just for when your best friends come over for dinner, just in case they'd want to steal something.

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SupermanJohnathanKentJr

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@Deadcool said:

Deepends on the reasons, there is alaways the excuse "I did it to save the world" or "I was brainwashed"...

Quicksilver

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Migz13

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Edited By Migz13

That's the time when the Team's brother(sister?!)hood truly is tested. To what point are they willing to forgive someone that has betrayed their trust?

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badaboop

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Edited By badaboop

Oh hell no. If a person betrayed me or my team I would never be able to forgive them (except if they were mind controlled). If the betrayal was on their own free will, or if they had a nervous breakdown, then I would never be able to talk to them again as a comrade, as a friend, or as an associate. There is absolutely no way, considering the amount of damage she created for the entire world, that I would ever let Scarlet Witch's pleas for help be heard again. She is such a liability. Look at what she did with only a simple phrase/sentence. Absolutely not. I would never respect her or trust her ever again after something as catastrophic as that.

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humansaresuper

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Edited By humansaresuper

if they were brainwashed it wasn't their fault, it was the fault of whoever did it to them.

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deactivated-5b9996f1456eb

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@Or35ti: That really bugged me because Storm has done plenty that might be considered super-villain esque.

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deactivated-5b9996f1456eb

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Well, Magneto has changed sides close to 700 times (I may be rounding down here) and the X-Men continue to trust him... however I do NOT think Scarlet Witch can redeem herself, she went WAY beyond what any super-villain has ever done and, as much as I enjoyed the ride, it's still super evil. Wolverine is a good example too, it seems if you aren't in complete control all can be forgiven.

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SupermanJohnathanKentJr

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I wish this went more into real betrayals. Most of it was about heroes who got brain washed, possessed or their powers went out of control. I'd like to hear more about heroes who went back to being villains and things like that.

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RedheadedAtrocitus

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I think it would depend on the degree of betrayal that took place and to what intent the person doing the betraying had when doing it. You mention Batman's example, which unfortunately is a two-sided card to me. Yes, one could see how having secret files on his fellow Justice Leaguers could be construed as betrayal, but in my point of view I saw it as a necessary evil considering that unlike them he has no powers and thus understood how superhumans, metahumans, and mutants could be seen as a threat. His intentions in that leading up tot he Brother Eye scheme was paved with good intentions until it was perverted by Maxwell Lord. And in all honesty, its not as if others were holier than thou in the situation, lest we forget what caused the Identity Crisis. Now, with what Wanda did to the Avengers, that was unfortunately a case where one cannot easily forget OR forgive what she had done. It was a betrayal that was too deep and too unilaterally one-sided as to see any good in it. In the end, we all make mistakes, but its the moment when your teammates no longer trust you that you no longer have a team.

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deactivated-579156ff11b09

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- It really depends on the circumstances behind the betrayal and damage caused by it. If a character is manipulated or controlled by a villain into the betrayal can you really hold against them actions that were not necessarily their own? There is a big difference between a betrayal for selfish, personal reasons and against your will.

- I also agree that it is many times treated as a popularity contest, where a better liked character is given a pass far easier than a less popular one. Both Cap and Stark were complete f-up's in Civil War but 90% of people side with Cap.

- Every situation needs to be looked at on it's own merits. The circumstances surrounded many events in comics vary wildly, making a broad always yes or always no answer almost impossible to support

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Hakudoushinumbernine

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how many times has Magneto worked with the x-men? >_> and is he not now apart of the x-men?

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deadpool25mm

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Edited By deadpool25mm

Heroes sould always get a second chance, after all they are Heroes.

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Xaviersx

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Edited By Xaviersx

Depends on the level of betrayal (do people die or suffer great trauma) and what caused the betrayal (mind control is usually a get out of jail free card, sometimes to save another life/lives can be forgiven as long as no lives are in the trade). It's a case by case matter. What is more interesting is multiple betrayal. Is a villain who becomes a hero who then later does something bad someone to trust again since the foundation of your relationship was bad ground? But . . . you can't go around not trusting anyone . . . making secret files on how to defeat even your friends . . . we can't all be Batman or such . . . lonely little bat.

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The Impersonator

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Edited By The Impersonator

Simple. Trust No One. Until Necessary. =P

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Teerack

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Edited By Teerack

You can apparently do a lot worse than betray a team and be trusted.

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Jorgevy

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Edited By Jorgevy

as far as Im concerned everything Iron Man did in Civil War was PIS and WIS - although I agree to a degree with some of his ideas, his actions were all PIS and WIS.

And Batman had the entire right to keep a file on the rest of the JLA. He doesn't have god like powers and he does have a leadership role in the team so I get it. Also he is super paranoid. Basicly his super powers is preping against others so..... and his plans were to stop JLA not to eliminate them

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Darkmount1

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Edited By Darkmount1

I think it's time they did something about this kind of trope of a story. Maybe they (and I mean the characters) should start setting in a post-hypnotic thing where if they're about to do something they're going to regret (under the brainwashing/possession circumstances), the post-hypnotic suggestion causes them to fall asleep or something. Because I am really getting tired of all these betrayal of trust stories--they're not interesting anymore.

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Mercy_

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Edited By Mercy_

@Scarlet_Rogue said:

I still don't trust Iron Man and consider him a villain.

YES

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yteez

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Edited By yteez

how the hell do you admit someone's was possesed or brainwashed or even went nuts (scarlet witch) and put them in the same category that actually betrayed their teamates either delibeartely or succumbin to blackmail?

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Rabbitearsblog

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Edited By Rabbitearsblog

I think it all depends on the reasons why the heroes betrayed the team. If they had to betrayed the team because they were mind controlled or they did it to save someone they love, then I think that the teams should forgive them since with the mind control situation, the heroes didn't have control over their actions, so it's not really their fault. With the whole saving their loved ones from a villain, the heroes would have to understand that they did it out of love and there's nothing wrong with saving people you care about. However, if the heroes betrayed their teams for selfish reasons such as to become rich or rule the world, then it would be more difficult to trust that person again because how would they know if the person won't betray them again when they have that opportunity again?

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Doctor!!!!!

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Edited By Doctor!!!!!

Wanda: Can I rejoin the team, i'm sane now.

Captain America: Yeah! It's all good!

In simpler words that is how it should've went down.

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ApatheticAvenger

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Edited By ApatheticAvenger

Batman and Xavier were both within there right to keep protocols on how to take down their team, call it paranoia but I see it as pretty damn justified given the history of both groups (especially in the case of both Superman and Wolverine). They could have done a better job protecting them, but I defend the fact that they have them.

As for Xavier being forgiven after Deadly Genesis and Vulcan, I'd say he's very lucky Scott (or even Emma) didn't kill him (or mind wipe him) for that one. The thing with Xavier is that at the end of the day he (almost) always had the best of intentions. He'll never be trusted the same among the X-Men though, especially by Cyclops.

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GothamRed

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Edited By GothamRed

It depends on what they did and why they did it, batman for the Tower of Babel yes cause it was a justified "betrayal" and it's relatively easy to stop batman if you give him no prep time, for scarlet witch, how could they be sure that she won't go crazy again, mental illness just doesn't go away, and even though it was partially the avengers fault she still unjustifiably attack the Avengers to defend what was essentially nothing. Bottom line I have a hard time trusting someone that powerful who has shown the potential to go that nuts.

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OmegaDynasty

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Edited By OmegaDynasty

Well, if a person has a good reason for doing so, and or is being manipulated mind control, etc. I would say give them another chance to mend any broken bonds and trust between the team. As many heroes have gone rogue.  
Like Hal Jordan with Parralax, destroyed an entire universe and tried to recreate one of his own. He was forgiven.

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evilvegeta74

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Edited By evilvegeta74

Nobody mentioned the Blue Boyscout (Superman) going rogue on many occounts, it's an annual thing seemingly with him. I guess he is the the elephant in the room, when it comes to this subject? I like Supes, but you never hear about Pete (Spidey) going rogue, just being set up.

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Decept-O

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Edited By Decept-O

To err is human, to forgive divine. Or in Scarlet Witch's case, to err is mutant.....

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Or35ti

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Edited By Or35ti

I don't think that these team's are not strict enough when it comes to membership. Storm made a really good point in the first new issue of Uncanny X-Men when she asked who at the table had not gone through a phase others would characterize as mostly super-villain, and only 3 people on the team could raise their hands. When a hero in particular is possessed or something they should at least be forced to take some time off and recuperate before immediately being thrown back on superhero duty with their teams.

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Scarlet_Rogue

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Edited By Scarlet_Rogue

@clemj said:

@Scarlet_Rogue: Iron man!!!!!!!!!!!!! you can't be serious!!!!! It's Scarlet witch the villain!!!!

Avengers: The Crossing, and more recently: Civil War (in which he turns on Captain America and every other hero who won't lay down and unmask)

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Phaedrusgr

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Edited By Phaedrusgr

@pingclang: We have to forgive but we must not forget. If you tend to forget, history will repeat itself. That's what I believe.

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Outside_85

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Edited By Outside_85

In the world they live in, they should expect people to go insane, get brainwashed or otherwise loose control of themselves...because it can happen to them.

Btw, Titans do forgive, since they still hang around this girl;

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clemj

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Edited By clemj
@Scarlet_Rogue: Iron man!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
 you can't be serious!!!!! It's Scarlet witch the villain!!!!
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DIOMJK

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Edited By DIOMJK

@DarthShap said:

@Suprman said:

Second, Batman keeping secret files on the JLA is completely justified, and in Tower of Babel those plans were MODIFIED to kill members of the team. The original plans were meant to incapacitate them. It's true that trust is an issue when it comes to forming elite superhero teams, but in an immediate battle situation, you don't really have time to worry about how much you trust a teammate, you have to trust your own instincts and hope that they come through when it counts.

That is the argument of Doom but in Tower of Babel, the plans were not modified at all. Ra's was not trying to kill the League, just to incapacitate them actually but the plans (Batman's plans) were way more violent than in Doom, especially for Flash, Superman and Aquaman.

And the argument in Tower of Babel was that Batman was not justified to keep those files because he did it all behind their back, studying their weaknesses and ultimately, it just showed the lack of real trust he had for them.

In Identity Crisis, the league Mind-wiped batman because he caught them doing something immoral. very good reason to never trust anybody. Plus his actions were hardly unjustified, it was like keeping a gun in your house in case of burgalars, just because someone uses it for bad doesnt mean keeping it was an evil idea

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Kairan1979

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Edited By Kairan1979

I'm surprsed nobody mentioned Xavier yet. While it's arguable if he is responsible for the actions of Cassandra Nova or Onslaught, but Deadly Genesis was completely his fault.

Vulcan was troubled, but talented young mutant with a dark past; Professor's actions turned him into power-hungry tyrant. And we saw the results of Vulcan's rule; the destruction of Genosha is nothing in comparison.

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