Comic Vine News

75 Comments

Morrison Talks About His Watchmen Follow-Up... Pax Americana

It'll star all the Charlton characters and be drawn by Frank Quitely.

        The back-handed slap that made the comic world gasp.
      The back-handed slap that made the comic world gasp.

It’s been a spell since Grant Morrison’s talked about that MULTIVERSITY maxi-series he’s cooking up to focus on ten unexplored worlds from DC’s recently-resurrected continuum of realities. Probably the most interesting stop in this dimensional decathlon concerns a semi-sequel to WATCHMEN that'll recast the Charlton heroes in today’s realpolitik. Now, after an interview Morrison did with the British comics mag COMIC HEROES (and the Brits just love their anthology mags, don’t they? 2000AD, CLiNT…) we know that it’ll be titled PAX AMERICANA and drawn by none other than ALL-STAR SUPERMAN collaborator, Frank Quitely.

I’m not keen on seeing any follow-ups to WATCHMEN, least of all ones without Moore or Gibbons involved, but I’m actually looking forward to this because it’s an homage, not a sequel - - and there's a key difference, there. Morrison’s a creative genius and using the Charlton characters as analogs to reinterpret the classic is a sly way for fans to have their cake and eat it, too - - that is, getting the chance to read a WATCHMEN follow-up while the integrity of the book is still preserved. It’s also a bit of inspired irony for him to use these characters, since WATCHMEN was originally going to use Blue Beetle, Peacemaker, the Question, et al until Dick Giordano realized it’d be commercial death for the recently-acquired Charlton brand. I’m also looking forward to seeing Morrison and Quitely try to make another comic with the kind of densely rich visual symbolism that WATCHMEN is famous for… because I can’t think of too many mainstream comics that have attemped that kind of dense storytelling ever since. 

Morrison phrases everything entertainingly. Here are his words about this… == TEASER ==

“We thought it would be appropriate to re-think and update the kind of in-your-face self-reflecting narrative techniques used by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons and to apply them to a whole new story which asks ‘what if Watchmen had been conceived now, in the contemporary political landscape and with the Charlton characters themselves, rather than analogues? So the cover has a close-up on a burning peace flag and a Delmore Schwartz quote – ‘Time is the school in which we learn, time is the fire in which we burn’ – and it all blossoms from there.”

These quotes come courtesy of Bleeding Cool, who also includes Morrison response to Alan Moore’s comments about the current state of super-heroes. Also, anybody concerned about how this is going to fit into Quitely’s schedule can probably relax. I believe he’s just doing one installment for this series of specials that will have rotating roster of artists.

Tom Pinchuk’s the writer of    HYBRID BASTARDS!  &  UNIMAGINABLE . Order them on Amazon  here  & here .

75 Comments

Avatar image for emperor_gonzo_noir
Emperor Gonzo Noir

19151

Forum Posts

1989

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 17

Cool idea, but I'm glad Morrison is using the Charlton characters

Avatar image for j1ml33
J1ml33

577

Forum Posts

393

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 6

Edited By J1ml33
@Dr. Maxwell said:
"  Alan Moore will put a voodoo hex on Grant Morrison. Morrison will deflect it with chaos magic. And somewhere in the UK around New Castle or Leeds some 8 year old will be caught in the crossfire and his head will explode all over his bedroom wall. Following this the other members of The Society of British Bastards (Gaiman, Ellis, and Ennis) will just sit back and watch the Magician and the Shaman warp reality in their duel and then write about it in the various themes they employ.  Needless to say I am very excited about this "
and what about the multiverse will Grant Morrison be the victor and Moore the vanquished ?tune in next week !
Avatar image for dr__maxwell
Dr. Maxwell

676

Forum Posts

1880

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 14

User Lists: 2

Edited By Dr. Maxwell

 Alan Moore will put a voodoo hex on Grant Morrison. Morrison will deflect it with chaos magic. And somewhere in the UK around New Castle or Leeds some 8 year old will be caught in the crossfire and his head will explode all over his bedroom wall. Following this the other members of The Society of British Bastards (Gaiman, Ellis, and Ennis) will just sit back and watch the Magician and the Shaman warp reality in their duel and then write about it in the various themes they employ.
 
Needless to say I am very excited about this

Avatar image for undeadpool
undeadpool

726

Forum Posts

704

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By undeadpool
@TheMess1428 said:
" Oh wow I just noticed that Comedian is Peacemaker, Rorschach is Question, and Niteowl is Blue Beetle. "
And Capt. Atom is Dr. Manhattan. 
 
I've got a lot of faith in Morrison, but he needs to tread VERY carefully. This isn't just some retooling of an obscure book that no one remembers, this is Watchmen.
Avatar image for dark_walker
Dark Walker

506

Forum Posts

6009

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 3

Edited By Dark Walker

Ugh...Frank Quitely...pass on this, I'm not keen on what Morrison is doing with Batman, he's a decent writer and storyteller, but I just can't stand Quitely's artwork. 

Avatar image for waruikumo
waruikumo

364

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 2

Edited By waruikumo

Morrison = comic book god.  He can pretty much do anything, as far as I am concerned.  

Avatar image for eyz
Eyz

3187

Forum Posts

304

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By Eyz

It's not really a sequel...more of a "semi-sequel". It follows the concept, updates it to the 2000s, yet won't use the same universe and characters...
 
A spiritual sequel of sorts... Much better than when DC wanted to make a sequel of an Alan Moore work without Alan Moore!

Avatar image for gloverjake
gloverjake

15

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By gloverjake

cool

Avatar image for video_martian
Video_Martian

5650

Forum Posts

2349

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Video_Martian
@TheMess1428 said:
" Oh wow I just noticed that Comedian is Peacemaker, Rorschach is Question, and Niteowl is Blue Beetle. "

No Caption Provided
Avatar image for deadcool
Deadcool

6944

Forum Posts

1084

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 35

Edited By Deadcool
@the_fallen11:  I have lots and lots of those
Avatar image for red_rum
Red Rum

390

Forum Posts

4855

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Edited By Red Rum

I wonder if they'll use new versions of other Charlton characters? Like E-Man, Judo Master, and Son of Vulcan?

Avatar image for the_fallen11
the_fallen11

642

Forum Posts

26

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

Edited By the_fallen11
@Deadcool: haha funny.
Avatar image for wildish
Wildish

119

Forum Posts

12

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By Wildish

I watched the Film of Watchmen I quit liked it, though it was a bit grim in places, I can't wait till I read the comicbook
Avatar image for johnny_spam
johnny_spam

2187

Forum Posts

32795

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By johnny_spam
@Nokturnum: @Nokturnum said:
" Or is this image from? Is it from some issue or is it just a drawing? "
It was Wizard magazine from a few years ago they wrote an article on Countdown Arena and that was the main image.
Avatar image for nokturnum
Nokturnum

17

Forum Posts

2249

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By Nokturnum

Or is this image from? Is it from some issue or is it just a drawing?

Avatar image for deactivated-5eb002c4cfd0e
deactivated-5eb002c4cfd0e

125

Forum Posts

350

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 34

User Lists: 0


what comic is that from? (batman vs. rorscach)?
Avatar image for tsemasi
Tsemasi

13

Forum Posts

20

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Tsemasi

This should be good.

Avatar image for batmanboy11
batmanboy11

244

Forum Posts

6575

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 45

User Lists: 0

Edited By batmanboy11

I like Morrison but.... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Avatar image for thebug
TheBug

1121

Forum Posts

336

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Edited By TheBug

I'm actually really excited to see this.
Avatar image for deadcool
Deadcool

6944

Forum Posts

1084

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 35

Edited By Deadcool
@skaarason:  Oh, is just japanese fan-art

No Caption Provided
Avatar image for jotham
Jotham

4576

Forum Posts

2321

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

Edited By Jotham

Anyone other than Morrison, I'd be screaming at my monitor right now. Of course, if he does it, it'll open the floodgates.

Avatar image for skaarason
skaarason

693

Forum Posts

1738

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Edited By skaarason
@Deadcool: where is this from ? 
 
 
but also if its as good as gm's batman stuff i will for sure be getting this !!!
Avatar image for grouchy224
Grouchy224

25

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Grouchy224

The Watchmen is just a comic book, and really aslong as the follow up is an entertaining read it shouldnt cause so much drama. The Watchmen isn't a bible, yo. Chill out.

Avatar image for reversenegative
ReverseNegative

2974

Forum Posts

2545

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 6

Edited By ReverseNegative

I'd get it.

Avatar image for catastrophic
Catastrophic

334

Forum Posts

5

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Catastrophic

Blah blah blah.
 
I think so I remember reading this argument many years ago.
 
This is Sergio Leonne VS Akira Kurosawa VS  Dashiell Hammet t all over again.
 
Remember that people?
 
At the end of the day, both were culturally important. If Morrison can come out something as good as Watchmen at the end of the day, I'm sure people would respect both materials equally.
 
And you Fanboys think why other people think you're annoying.

Avatar image for marius138
Marius138

94

Forum Posts

1651

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Edited By Marius138
@johnny spam:   I'm familiar with Super-Folks, and Moore most likely was inspired by it, but as I said before it's impossible to know for sure unless it comes from Moore's lips.  As for Morrison being a better writer than the Heroes writers; going off his older stuff I would agree, but based off his recent work with DC I'm not so sure.  But now were heading back into the land of pure speculation and opinions and starting to go in circles with this debate.  I think were just going to have to agree to disagree. =)
Avatar image for johnny_spam
johnny_spam

2187

Forum Posts

32795

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By johnny_spam
@Marius138: Difference is that Morrison is a better writer then the Heroes writers. Thing is that this is just one of a few issues so I also think you are looking at this one issue to closely he will also do an issue about the Marvel Family one about Overman and the Freedom Fighters one about 90's superheroes a pulp meets magic earth a political superhero earth and a Earth Prime issue the Watchmen esque concept is just giving Earth 4 something to stand out from the other Earths. If you call Grant Morrison out on being unoriginal then you have to call Alan Moore as well since there were many things those characters drew from it's ending a novel called Super-Folks it was inspired by older ideas as well. 
Avatar image for marius138
Marius138

94

Forum Posts

1651

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Edited By Marius138
@johnny spam:  I understand the argument that there is no truly unique story, and I understand that there were similar concepts of what Moore did before he did it, but it's impossible to speculate on where Moore drew his inspirations from unless it actually comes from his lips.  I also understand other stories have already taken ideas from Watchmen, but that doesn't make it okay.  Heroes is probably one of the most recent examples of it, and believe me I, and a lot of other people were not thrilled about it.  Their lack of ability to come up with decent original stuff is why the show is being canceled and as far as I can tell Morrison is heading right down the same path, but only time will tell.
Avatar image for johnny_spam
johnny_spam

2187

Forum Posts

32795

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By johnny_spam
@Marius138: The story of Watchmen is repetitive already it was since the beginning it is it is the same methods being applied to this project so what can be taken away when it is already been mined and used by others and Watchmen itself was ripped on other things as well.
Avatar image for marius138
Marius138

94

Forum Posts

1651

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Edited By Marius138
@cbishop said:

@Marius138 said:

"...And you can paint the characters any way you want to, but it is blatantly clear that what Morrison and DC are doing is suppose to be a version of the Watchmen, and if Moore had sold out we wouldn't be looking at the Charlton characters, we'd be looking at the Watchmen.  So in the end it still feels like a cheap knock off of the Watchmen.  Which goes right back to being insulting to the Watchmen story "


The originals can't be knockoffs of their imitators.   No matter how good the story was, the Watchmen are knockoffs of the Charlton characters.  If DC wants to apply that kind of story atmosphere to the original characters, then so what?  Outside of comics, people aren't going to recognize the Charlton characters as the Watchmen.  Good or bad, Multiversity will not have an effect on Watchmen. "
::Sigh::  I never said the Charlton characters are knockoffs of Moore's characters.  I said "what Morrison and DC are doing" is a knock off of what Moore did.  When you take the original characters and place them in a situation/world DC never intended them to be in in the first place, one originally created by Moore, then guess what your doing.  Your knocking off Moore's work.  And I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "Outside of comics."  This whole thing is about the comics, so of course it's not going to be an issue for people that don't read comics...
 
@johnny spam said:
" @Marius138:
I never said that there isn't other writers or stories equal to or greater than Moore and Watchman.  I said Morrison's works as of late comes no where near Moore's Watchman.  The only thing that was an opinion about my statement was that Morrison's work has been sub-par.   And the way inferior work takes away from a great piece of work is like this.  Say you have a truly great movie.  Then a sequel comes out and it's okay at best.  Then another sequel comes out and another and so on and so forth, and they're all okay at best.  Soon people stop remembering how great the first one was and only really remember the series of movies as a whole, which was okay.  Now I know the circumstances around this are different, but this can very easily start the ball rolling on what I was describing above.  Soon we'll have people saying "Oh the Watchmen are just like Morrison's Pax Whateverica."  Just like when the Fantastic Four movie came out they were saying it was just like The Incredibles, even though the Fantastic Four have been around decades longer. "
No one ever forgets the original nor will anyone take it away just because a comic will be published in the spirit of Watchmen does not mean it will replace anyone's memories of it. "
When you duplicate a story enough times it takes away from the uniqueness of the original story.  People forget the original stories of things all the time.  It happens in history, religion, literature, music, movies, TV, and yes comic books.  I'm not trying to be offensive or insult you personally but your statement is a bit naive.
Avatar image for johnny_spam
johnny_spam

2187

Forum Posts

32795

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By johnny_spam
@Marius138: @Marius138 said:
" @johnny spam said:

Being an opinion I can argue I think there are many writers equal or better then Alan Moore and Watchmen.  I still do not understand how telling a story with different characters in the story telling styles of Watchmen is an insult to Watchmen I am not seeing how it takes away from Watchmen at all.  "

 I never said that there isn't other writers or stories equal to or greater than Moore and Watchman.  I said Morrison's works as of late comes no where near Moore's Watchman.  The only thing that was an opinion about my statement was that Morrison's work has been sub-par.   And the way inferior work takes away from a great piece of work is like this.  Say you have a truly great movie.  Then a sequel comes out and it's okay at best.  Then another sequel comes out and another and so on and so forth, and they're all okay at best.  Soon people stop remembering how great the first one was and only really remember the series of movies as a whole, which was okay.  Now I know the circumstances around this are different, but this can very easily start the ball rolling on what I was describing above.  Soon we'll have people saying "Oh the Watchmen are just like Morrison's Pax Whateverica."  Just like when the Fantastic Four movie came out they were saying it was just like The Incredibles, even though the Fantastic Four have been around decades longer. "
No one ever forgets the original nor will anyone take it away just because a comic will be published in the spirit of Watchmen does not mean it will replace anyone's memories of it.
Avatar image for deadcool
Deadcool

6944

Forum Posts

1084

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 35

Edited By Deadcool

I don't know how do I feel about this.

No Caption Provided
Avatar image for emerald_dragonfly_deleteme
Emerald Dragonfly

225

Forum Posts

199

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

JESUS, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! "ULTIMATE WATCHMEN" =(

Avatar image for bearded_justice
Bearded Justice

789

Forum Posts

1691

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By Bearded Justice

though im not a morrison fan, id probably like this, since i love blue beetle and the question
Avatar image for pizawle
Pizawle

1080

Forum Posts

5

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

Edited By Pizawle

Words cannot describe how awesome this is. This is the perfect route to take.

Avatar image for cbishop
cbishop

21184

Forum Posts

393973

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 92

User Lists: 1268

Edited By cbishop
@vincethekid said:

"...Moore doesn't think he's better than anyone..."

 
Actually, you should check out the CBR article Babs linked to, earlier in the week, and watch the videos that CBR linked to.  Moore referred to the writers at DC as "hacks."  I think that pretty clearly says, "I'm better than everyone else." 

@Marius138 said:

"...And you can paint the characters any way you want to, but it is blatantly clear that what Morrison and DC are doing is suppose to be a version of the Watchmen, and if Moore had sold out we wouldn't be looking at the Charlton characters, we'd be looking at the Watchmen.  So in the end it still feels like a cheap knock off of the Watchmen.  Which goes right back to being insulting to the Watchmen story "


The originals can't be knockoffs of their imitators.   No matter how good the story was, the Watchmen are knockoffs of the Charlton characters.  If DC wants to apply that kind of story atmosphere to the original characters, then so what?  Outside of comics, people aren't going to recognize the Charlton characters as the Watchmen.  Good or bad, Multiversity will not have an effect on Watchmen.
Avatar image for marius138
Marius138

94

Forum Posts

1651

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Edited By Marius138

I just don't want to see a great piece of work dragged down to mediocrity by being duplicated over and over again with weaker versions of it.

Avatar image for marius138
Marius138

94

Forum Posts

1651

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Edited By Marius138
@johnny spam said:

Being an opinion I can argue I think there are many writers equal or better then Alan Moore and Watchmen.  I still do not understand how telling a story with different characters in the story telling styles of Watchmen is an insult to Watchmen I am not seeing how it takes away from Watchmen at all.  "

 I never said that there isn't other writers or stories equal to or greater than Moore and Watchman.  I said Morrison's works as of late comes no where near Moore's Watchman.  The only thing that was an opinion about my statement was that Morrison's work has been sub-par. 
 
And the way inferior work takes away from a great piece of work is like this.  Say you have a truly great movie.  Then a sequel comes out and it's okay at best.  Then another sequel comes out and another and so on and so forth, and they're all okay at best.  Soon people stop remembering how great the first one was and only really remember the series of movies as a whole, which was okay.
 
Now I know the circumstances around this are different, but this can very easily start the ball rolling on what I was describing above.  Soon we'll have people saying "Oh the Watchmen are just like Morrison's Pax Whateverica."  Just like when the Fantastic Four movie came out they were saying it was just like The Incredibles, even though the Fantastic Four have been around decades longer.
Avatar image for goldenkey
goldenkey

3033

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By goldenkey
@TheMess1428:
I LOVE it when they do that.  When it's done really really well and it's obvious it's an homage.  I felt that after I read Millars "Wanted".  I thought the story was just great, but the lead character reminded me of someone so I wiki it and found out it was supposed to be Eminem and that Millar started a rumor the movie was being made way before the movie was made to sell more books.  Then I read how it was mob war between Superman villians and Batman villians and that all the 2nd hand players were DC and Marvel villians.  Even a mention of the Multi-verse in the book. 
Avatar image for johnny_spam
johnny_spam

2187

Forum Posts

32795

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By johnny_spam
@Marius138: @Marius138 said:
"  @johnny spam said:

Calling his work sub par is always a opinion and many have been satisfied lately. But the thing is it seems like anti-Watchmen we saw Captain Atom already and Superman called him out on being cold and distant and at the end Captain Atom started to see the beauty of the Multiverse. With Question he will have the belief of Spiral Dynamics that people can change and adapt while Rorschach was unwilling to change these characters seem different then the ways they were handled in Watchmen.   "

Your right, my opinion that his work has been sub-par is just that, an opinion, but none the less, you can't argue that his works have come anywhere near Moore's Watchmen, and that's the point I was trying to make.  Anything less than epic or legendary story telling does nothing but take away from what Moore did with the Watchmen.   And you can paint the characters any way you want to, but it is blatantly clear that what Morrison and DC are doing is suppose to be a version of the Watchmen, and if Moore had sold out we wouldn't be looking at the Charlton characters, we'd be looking at the Watchmen.  So in the end it still feels like a cheap knock off of the Watchmen.  Which goes right back to being insulting to the Watchmen story "
Being an opinion I can argue I think there are many writers equal or better then Alan Moore and Watchmen. 
 
I still do not understand how telling a story with different characters in the story telling styles of Watchmen is an insult to Watchmen I am not seeing how it takes away from Watchmen at all. 
Avatar image for marius138
Marius138

94

Forum Posts

1651

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Edited By Marius138

 @johnny spam said:

Calling his work sub par is always a opinion and many have been satisfied lately. But the thing is it seems like anti-Watchmen we saw Captain Atom already and Superman called him out on being cold and distant and at the end Captain Atom started to see the beauty of the Multiverse. With Question he will have the belief of Spiral Dynamics that people can change and adapt while Rorschach was unwilling to change these characters seem different then the ways they were handled in Watchmen.   "

Your right, my opinion that his work has been sub-par is just that, an opinion, but none the less, you can't argue that his works have come anywhere near Moore's Watchmen, and that's the point I was trying to make.  Anything less than epic or legendary story telling does nothing but take away from what Moore did with the Watchmen.
 
And you can paint the characters any way you want to, but it is blatantly clear that what Morrison and DC are doing is suppose to be a version of the Watchmen, and if Moore had sold out we wouldn't be looking at the Charlton characters, we'd be looking at the Watchmen.  So in the end it still feels like a cheap knock off of the Watchmen.  Which goes right back to being insulting to the Watchmen story
Avatar image for johnny_spam
johnny_spam

2187

Forum Posts

32795

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By johnny_spam
@Marius138:  @Marius138 said:

"  @johnny spam said:

But what Alan Moore did was the exact same things he didn't use the characters but made the reader think of them it is the same thing you can't be mad when one person does it then the next person does.  And this book has been in the works for years it evolved from a sequel to 52 this was not an attempt to just copy Watchmen as much as to restart the interpretation of the DC Multiverse. In fact it might not even be the same look at his plans for Question and Captain Atom they are not the same as the way the Watchmen counterparts are. "

You make some good points.  Why Moore didn't come up with completely original characters is something I can't really speculate on, but what I do know is that Moore's version of the Charlton characters are not just better than the originals, their legendary compared to the Charlton characters.  And that's what at the heart of this debate.  Morrison's work leading up to this has been sub-par, and fans of the Watchmen story don't want to see some sub-par rip-off, sequel, parallel, or whatever else you want to call it, of the Watchmen.  It's insulting to the genius of the original work.  "
Calling his work sub par is always a opinion and many have been satisfied lately. But the thing is it seems like anti-Watchmen we saw Captain Atom already and Superman called him out on being cold and distant (the take on Dr. Manhattan) and at the end of Final Crisis Superman Beyond Captain Atom started to see the beauty of the Multiverse. With Question he will have the belief of Spiral Dynamics that people can change and adapt while Rorschach was unwilling to change these characters seem different then the ways they were handled in Watchmen.   
 
What's funny is if they went with their original plan it would be Greg Rucka writing Earth 4 he probably would have done something else.
Avatar image for marius138
Marius138

94

Forum Posts

1651

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Edited By Marius138

 @johnny spam said:

But what Alan Moore did was the exact same things he didn't use the characters but made the reader think of them it is the same thing you can't be mad when one person does it then the next person does.  And this book has been in the works for years it evolved from a sequel to 52 this was not an attempt to just copy Watchmen as much as to restart the interpretation of the DC Multiverse. In fact it might not even be the same look at his plans for Question and Captain Atom they are not the same as the way the Watchmen counterparts are. "

You make some good points.  Why Moore didn't come up with completely original characters is something I can't really speculate on, but what I do know is that Moore's version of the Charlton characters are not just better than the originals, their legendary compared to the Charlton characters.  And that's what at the heart of this debate.  Morrison's work leading up to this has been sub-par, and fans of the Watchmen story don't want to see some sub-par rip-off, sequel, parallel, or whatever else you want to call it, of the Watchmen.  It's insulting to the genius of the original work. 
Avatar image for johnny_spam
johnny_spam

2187

Forum Posts

32795

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By johnny_spam
@Marius138: @Marius138 said:
"  @johnny spam said:

" @Marius138: It is not a copy of Watchmen it is the Charlton characters in the same fashion and the Watchmen is a story already done it is the Charlton characters it's ending is from the Outer Limits that story itself is also not original. Look at Alan Moore's last couple of books or half his work it is the same thing which is take older concepts and reuse them.  "

First; the only reason Moore created original characters for his story was because DC wouldn't let him use their characters.  So yes the Watchmen are mirrors of the Charlton characters but if Moore had had his way it would have been the Charlton characters in the first place.
 
Second; the Outer Limits episode your referring to is The Architects of Fear, and Moore didn't actually know about that episode until he was well into making  Watchmen.  He does however give a nod to it in the final issue after he did learn about it.
 
Third; DC taking the Charlton characters and putting them in the same fashion as the Watchmen is copying the Watchmen, because it's the only way they can get away with it.  Moore refuses to sell out to them and give away his rights to the Watchmen characters so they have to resort to this lame way of imitating his work.
"
But what Alan Moore did was the exact same things he didn't use the characters but made the reader think of them it is the same thing you can't be mad when one person does it then the next person does. 
 
And this book has been in the works for years it evolved from a sequel to 52 this was not an attempt to just copy Watchmen as much as to restart the interpretation of the DC Multiverse. In fact it might not even be the same look at his plans for Question and Captain Atom they are not the same as the way the Watchmen counterparts are.
Avatar image for marius138
Marius138

94

Forum Posts

1651

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Edited By Marius138

 @johnny spam said:

" @Marius138: It is not a copy of Watchmen it is the Charlton characters in the same fashion and the Watchmen is a story already done it is the Charlton characters it's ending is from the Outer Limits that story itself is also not original. Look at Alan Moore's last couple of books or half his work it is the same thing which is take older concepts and reuse them.  "

First; the only reason Moore created original characters for his story was because DC wouldn't let him use their characters.  So yes the Watchmen are mirrors of the Charlton characters but if Moore had had his way it would have been the Charlton characters in the first place.
 
Second; the Outer Limits episode your referring to is The Architects of Fear, and Moore didn't actually know about that episode until he was well into making  Watchmen.  He does however give a nod to it in the final issue after he did learn about it.
 
Third; DC taking the Charlton characters and putting them in the same fashion as the Watchmen is copying the Watchmen, because it's the only way they can get away with it.  Moore refuses to sell out to them and give away his rights to the Watchmen characters so they have to resort to this lame way of imitating his work.
Avatar image for johnny_spam
johnny_spam

2187

Forum Posts

32795

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By johnny_spam
@Marius138: It is not a copy of Watchmen it is the Charlton characters in the same fashion and the Watchmen is a story already done it is the Charlton characters it's ending is from the Outer Limits that story itself is also not original. Look at Alan Moore's last couple of books or half his work it is the same thing which is take older concepts and reuse them.  In fact the whole concept of Watchmen is very close to an influential novel to comic book fans turned writers called  
 Super-Folks which was published in the last seventies it was the first take like that on heroes and probably something inspired that.
Avatar image for marius138
Marius138

94

Forum Posts

1651

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Edited By Marius138

This is what Morrison said as a prediction to Moore's response:
 

They’re designed to be told over and over again. If you were an Aboriginal kid or a tribal shaman, that’s what you’d do, you’d participate in the recycling of old stories, the ‘revamping’ of characters and scenarios, the explaining away of plot holes. Some to the job with more skill than others, but if you work with Marvel, DC or other companies’ pulp fiction characters, you’re basically repainting pictures of the ancestors on cave walls.

 
Now I don't know about everyone else, but to me that sounds like the lamest, most piss poor way of saying "I can't really come up with genuinely original ideas anymore so I'm just going to copy someone else's idea."
 
Leave Watchmen alone.
Avatar image for ericm
EricM

9

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By EricM
@-chapel- said:
" @vincethekid said:
"That's it for me.  I'm straight DONE with Grant Morrison.  I was going to give him a chance again with his run on Batman and Robin but, now.  F-Grant Morrison.  Look at the ego on this SOB.  It's not enough that you've single handily have destroyed an icon like Batman by making him used a gun but, now you want to do a "homage" to Alan Moore and take his characters and make them your own and exploit them with your artistic drivel.     Your fans have caught on to you, pal. The game is up!  Nobody wants to buy $3.99 pieces of crap.  Cause.... that's what you do?  You ruin stuff and we all suffer... until somebody else fixes it later.    Leave WATCHMEN alone.  Alan "The Man" Moore already told DC to stick it up there arses when they told him they would sell him back the rights to WATCHMEN if he would do prequels and sequels. Now, the money grubbing machine at DC decides to let Morrison do something with Alan Moore's stuff.  Great.  Gordon Gekko mentally.  Anything to make a buck.   WATCHMEN is a stand alone piece. That's it.  ONE.   Moore said it to us from the beginning.  If your a REAL comic fan you will understand this. Stop buying into the corporate machine of crap. You know I'm right people.  Morrison stuff has been terrible. Final Crisis was just god awful.  A book filled with non comprehensive garbage that went off on these weird tangents that didn't help or tell a cohesive story at all.    Then DC lets him do RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE.  Don't get me started on that piece of crap too. The balls on him.  Now, he wants to expand his take on the Multiverse.  Dude, back the F- off.  You've done enough damage already at DC. You've jumped the shark buddy.  I've said it before but, I really mean it now. I think it time for you to take some time off and leave the good writing to the infinite talent pool that DC has...cause your NOT ONE of THEM. "
DITT-F**&ING-O! "
Agreed!  Morrison can F-Off.  His stuff as of late has been crap, and he's going to do nothing but hurt the Watchmen legacy.
Avatar image for _chapel_
-chapel-

438

Forum Posts

146

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 1

Edited By -chapel-
@vincethekid said:
"That's it for me.  I'm straight DONE with Grant Morrison.  I was going to give him a chance again with his run on Batman and Robin but, now.  F-Grant Morrison.  Look at the ego on this SOB.  It's not enough that you've single handily have destroyed an icon like Batman by making him used a gun but, now you want to do a "homage" to Alan Moore and take his characters and make them your own and exploit them with your artistic drivel.     Your fans have caught on to you, pal. The game is up!  Nobody wants to buy $3.99 pieces of crap.  Cause.... that's what you do?  You ruin stuff and we all suffer... until somebody else fixes it later.    Leave WATCHMEN alone.  Alan "The Man" Moore already told DC to stick it up there arses when they told him they would sell him back the rights to WATCHMEN if he would do prequels and sequels. Now, the money grubbing machine at DC decides to let Morrison do something with Alan Moore's stuff.  Great.  Gordon Gekko mentally.  Anything to make a buck.   WATCHMEN is a stand alone piece. That's it.  ONE.   Moore said it to us from the beginning.  If your a REAL comic fan you will understand this. Stop buying into the corporate machine of crap. You know I'm right people.  Morrison stuff has been terrible. Final Crisis was just god awful.  A book filled with non comprehensive garbage that went off on these weird tangents that didn't help or tell a cohesive story at all.    Then DC lets him do RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE.  Don't get me started on that piece of crap too. The balls on him.  Now, he wants to expand his take on the Multiverse.  Dude, back the F- off.  You've done enough damage already at DC. You've jumped the shark buddy.  I've said it before but, I really mean it now. I think it time for you to take some time off and leave the good writing to the infinite talent pool that DC has...cause your NOT ONE of THEM. "


DITT-F**&ING-O!
  • 75 results
  • 1
  • 2