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Marvel v DC: The Battle for Movie Dates

Imagine two children reaching for the cookie jar, at the same time.

I never thought I'd say
I never thought I'd say "Groot was awesome in that movie"

Over the past couple of months, both Marvel and DC have been using the hype machine to let fans know they're both in it for the long run. Marvel has had a string of successful movies and proved you could take a B-List team and make an A-List movie using the "let's have fun" model for movie making. DC is still getting their footing, but they seem to be on the right track to make films that appeal to a mainstream audience and make money, even in a post-Nolan Batman world.

It's a great time to be a comic book fan and one of the masses heading to the theater to see super-powered beings trade punches. Along with that comes a ton of news and sneak-peaks at what these companies are up to in the future. However, not all of this is a good thing. I present, to you, what I'm calling "DateGate," mainly because I'm not clever enough to come up with something original myself.

For those who missed it, here's a quick recap of this insanity. Back in July, Marvel announced the dates for 5 upcoming films, on top of that they announced two more the year prior, leading to 7 films, planned until 2019. DC, in early August, announced that they will launch 9 movies up until 2020. No actual titles or properties were announced though. Both companies are just playing the "I saw it first" card when it came to weekends.

No Caption Provided

There is nothing dumber than the date grabbing war that both Marvel (Disney) and DC (Warner Brothers) are both playing right now. Sure, these pieces of "news" generate buzz, but a few weeks later, no one cares because it's just dates. Marvel plans this many films and DC plans that many films, but until there's casting and pre-production actually moving forward, consider these dates more of a wish than an actual plan. When I was 9, I planned on being best friends with Bo Jackson, but at the ripe age of 32, Bo doesn't know Mat. I used to think long-term too. There's little to no doubt that there will be more movies from both of these companies, but fans are at a point where they just expect a new Marvel film, or two, every year now and assume DC is just following suit.

No Caption Provided

Here's where this whole Marvel vs DC thing gets even more dumb interesting. Right before the big DC announcement of 9 titles, they had Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice going head-to-head with Captain America 3, on May 6th, 2016. That's right, the two most anticipated movies would go head-to-head. Then, Warner Bros switched it to March 25th, 2016 when they announced the dates for the rest of their films. In an interview with CinemaBlend, director Joe Russo had this to say about the situation:

We knew when they announced that it was somewhat of a placeholder, that it was a game of chicken to see if Marvel really had a film that was going to land on that date or not... We knew it was never going to happen. We knew those two films would never stay on that date. So we knew somebody was going to move.

If that this whole chicken-game scenario is true, it's insane. This battle over having a certain weekend is just plain silly. Sure, there's probably weekends folks are more privy to going out to the theaters, like holiday weekends, but there are plenty of dates to go around. Many folks don't get out to the theaters as often as others and giving them a choice to pick one of two opening films may seem smart, but what's smarter is not planning them the same weekend, so you have a better chance of said folks coming to both movies. Audiences need good, fun, summer films, not two companies beating their chests to see who is dominant. The whole idea of WB testing the waters to call Marvel's bluff is silly and a pointless move.

Congrats. You can both pick dates. Now, what are you going to do with said dates? We know Marvel is working on Doctor Strange and DC has dropped hints at Justice League (which will most likely happen) and Sandman. I'm not saying they both need to lay all their cards out on the table because they owe it to fans. That's just as silly as anything else, but what they should be worry about is the quality of their films and that's it. The mainstream audience isn't dumb. We all know both companies plan on making as many films as possible until the super-hero film bubble bursts and we'll all keep seeing them no matter how much we complain on the Internet about casting choices because we were all genius casting directors in a former life.

If you two are making movies for superiority, you're doing it wrong. You should be making movies to get all of our money. As of now, you're doing a really good job at it, so less date grabbing and games of chicken and more awesome movies, please.

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ccraft

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@a_a_a said:

@novemberx2:

Avengers 92% in RT $1.5 Billion in Box office

The Dark Knight 94% in RT $1 Billion in Box office

Spider-man 2 94% in RT $783 Million in Box office

X-Men 2 87% in RT $407 Million in Box office

MOVIES ARE SUBJECTIVE ANY PERSONAL OPINION IS JUST YOUR OPINION

The ultimate goal of a movie is profit, who says otherwise don't get the industry, and terms of critic acclaim and movie going audience acclaim no one beats the Avengers movie.

What i think some comic book fans don't understand is that they only represent a very very very small portion of general movie going audience and a movie can't only appeal to the fans, here is where marvel studios makes the difference because they connect with all the movie going audience very well, that's why a unknown property like GOTG open domestically with $94 Million ahead the very known property's X-Men DFP $90 Million and TASM 2 $91 Million, Marvel Studios at this point is a so trustful brand that Regular Movie Going Audiences go see their movie no matter what's the Title...

MOS made like 668M, just because it didn't get a higher rating on RT doesn't mean it was bad compared to others. Films are subjective. There's brilliant movies out there with lower RT rating that are way better than any cbm summer block buster. Again subjective, but you see my point.

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Fallingcliffs

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I'm glad this way I can see both films without worrying about which to see first lol.

I think those people who go just by RT can't judge or think for themselves, I mean the guy above with MOS stats just proves my point, overall it was a good movie meanwhile they loved IM3 which was very disappointing even to Marvel fans. So you can't always go by what "the critics say"

@the_lobster_: Don't forget video games and comics, DC is pretty much schooling Marvel in that area. Perhaps comics fluctuate but with games, tv and animated films DC has Marvel's number. Marvel has the edge right now at least with movies but I gotta give DC the edge in everything else honestly.

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ccraft

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Edited By ccraft

@eyedcyou said:

While I know that Marvel is printing money with their movies at this point, I still think it's silly to believe that BvS was moved because DC/WB were worried about losing out to Cap 3 in terms of sales. Cap 3 will definitely make a ton of money, but BvS will likely be the highest grossing movie of the year unless Star Wars beats it. We saw with Avengers that putting multiple superheros in one film results in raining money. Add Batman to that formula? Box office success.

Very true, I like what I've seen from you on CV lately.

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A_A_A

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Edited By A_A_A

@eyedcyou said:

@a_a_a: Rotten Tomatoes is a great site, I love it. But you can't use it as a total basis for how good a film is. Man of Steel got a 56% from critics, but got like a 76% from users. That's one of the biggest differences I've ever seen.

It's better than my opinion or yours i think!!! because movies ares subjective you know that Man of Steel divided audiences and not convinced critics, that's why WB brought Batman to the sequel, Batman last movie was in 2012, if they thrust in Man Of Steel work as base for a Cinematic Universe, they didn't have to bring Bats so early, they could go first with another characters that didn't made their debut in movies like Wonder Woman, that should have her own movie with a origin story and not be a secondary character in some one else movie.

Loading Video...

Sorry for the Quality, best that i find...As you can see the critics were't the only ones that didn't like Man of Steel also some fans, this is in Comic Con.

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Omega-Man

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Edited By Omega-Man

@a_a_a said:

@theblackhood: Again movies are subjective, that's your opinion, Only... But In Marvel studios entire run since 2008 no movie were so bad reviewed like Man of Steal.

2013 Man of Steal 56% in Rotten Tomatoes

_____________________________________________________________________

Marvel Studios Run (MCU)

2008 Iron Man 1 93%

2008 Incredible Hulk 67%

2010 Iron Man 2 73%

2011 Thor 77%

2011 Cap 1 79%

2012 Avengers 92%

2013 Iron Man 3 78%

2013 Thor 2 65%

2014 Cap 2 89%

2014 GOTG 92%


xD You have to be a fool to go off of Rotten Tomatoes so called "review" numbers. Since Superman Returns and even Crystal Skull got higher points than Man of Steel I call it a load of crap to be honest. How can movies like Crystal Skull and Superman Returns get higher scores than Man Of Steel? Those movies sucked harder than anything.

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EyeDCyou

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@a_a_a: They ABSOLUTELY didn't bring in Bats because they weren't comfortable with Man of Steel leading the universe. Man of Steel made hellaaa money. That's all the production companies care about. And as for RT. Just as you said...all opinions are subjective. The critics were indifferent about it, but the fans responded positively. I liked the movie, I'm guessing you did not. RT is usually a good jumping off point for how good a movie is. But that doesn't mean everyone is always going to agree with it.

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A_A_A

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@ccraft said:

@a_a_a said:

@novemberx2:

Avengers 92% in RT $1.5 Billion in Box office

The Dark Knight 94% in RT $1 Billion in Box office

Spider-man 2 94% in RT $783 Million in Box office

X-Men 2 87% in RT $407 Million in Box office

MOVIES ARE SUBJECTIVE ANY PERSONAL OPINION IS JUST YOUR OPINION

The ultimate goal of a movie is profit, who says otherwise don't get the industry, and terms of critic acclaim and movie going audience acclaim no one beats the Avengers movie.

What i think some comic book fans don't understand is that they only represent a very very very small portion of general movie going audience and a movie can't only appeal to the fans, here is where marvel studios makes the difference because they connect with all the movie going audience very well, that's why a unknown property like GOTG open domestically with $94 Million ahead the very known property's X-Men DFP $90 Million and TASM 2 $91 Million, Marvel Studios at this point is a so trustful brand that Regular Movie Going Audiences go see their movie no matter what's the Title...

MOS made like 668M, just because it didn't get a higher rating on RT doesn't mean it was bad compared to others. Films are subjective. There's brilliant movies out there with lower RT rating that are way better than any cbm summer block buster. Again subjective, but you see my point.

Totally Agree, but you should put in the equation that Man of Steel is the Base of an entire Cinematic Universe and you should start with a acclaimed movie by fans, critics and regular movie going audience, Like was Iron Man 1, X-men 1, Batman Begins and Spider Man 1, if you start dividing audiences it's not a good start to a shared universe.

I didn't give any personal opinion about the movie i m just pointing facts...

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A_A_A

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Edited By A_A_A

@omega_man_: Tell me with what independent source of reviews should i go Then... Your opinion ?

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EyeDCyou

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@a_a_a said:

@ccraft said:

@a_a_a said:

@novemberx2:

Avengers 92% in RT $1.5 Billion in Box office

The Dark Knight 94% in RT $1 Billion in Box office

Spider-man 2 94% in RT $783 Million in Box office

X-Men 2 87% in RT $407 Million in Box office

MOVIES ARE SUBJECTIVE ANY PERSONAL OPINION IS JUST YOUR OPINION

The ultimate goal of a movie is profit, who says otherwise don't get the industry, and terms of critic acclaim and movie going audience acclaim no one beats the Avengers movie.

What i think some comic book fans don't understand is that they only represent a very very very small portion of general movie going audience and a movie can't only appeal to the fans, here is where marvel studios makes the difference because they connect with all the movie going audience very well, that's why a unknown property like GOTG open domestically with $94 Million ahead the very known property's X-Men DFP $90 Million and TASM 2 $91 Million, Marvel Studios at this point is a so trustful brand that Regular Movie Going Audiences go see their movie no matter what's the Title...

MOS made like 668M, just because it didn't get a higher rating on RT doesn't mean it was bad compared to others. Films are subjective. There's brilliant movies out there with lower RT rating that are way better than any cbm summer block buster. Again subjective, but you see my point.

Totally Agree, but you should put in the equation that Man of Steel is the Base of an entire Cinematic Universe and you should start with a acclaimed movie by fans, critics and regular movie going audience, Like was Iron Man 1, X-men 1, Batman Begins and Spider Man 1, if you start dividing audiences it's not a good start to a shared universe.

I didn't give any personal opinion about the movie i m just pointing facts...

Man of Steel made 100M more than what Iron Man made at the Box office. And you can't just wait to see how your first film does before planning a shared universe. Those are thought up before the first film is even finished being made.

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ccraft

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@a_a_a: It's a bummer that MOS was so hated by so many, I think many things factored in for MOS getting bad reviews, I haven't seen very many valid criticisms for MOS. I thought it was a great start for the DCCU, next movie will be world building so that's exciting.

Look at X-Men 3, people hated that movie, but loved DoFP. BvS still has a chance of getting great reviews.

MOS did extremely well for an origin film, it was up there near the sequel money making movies.

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A_A_A

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Edited By A_A_A

@eyedcyou: Do you saw the video at comic con?

MAN OF STEEL DIVIDED AUDIENCES ACCEPT THAT you have no valid argument...

Iron man in 2008 was an unknown property to regular movie going audiences and Marvel studios was not a thrust brand like it is now Iron Man 3 made $1.2 Billion tell me what DC movie made that kind of money?

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feedonatreefrog

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Edited By feedonatreefrog

They didn't bring in Batman because MOS didn't make enough.

They're making a Batman/Superman movie because Avengers proved that team-ups have even higher earnings potential.

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A_A_A

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@ccraft said:

@a_a_a: It's a bummer that MOS was so hated by so many, I think many things factored in for MOS getting bad reviews, I haven't seen very many valid criticisms for MOS. I thought it was a great start for the DCCU, next movie will be world building so that's exciting.

Look at X-Men 3, people hated that movie, but loved DoFP. BvS still has a chance of getting great reviews.

MOS did extremely well for an origin film, it was up there near the sequel money making movies.

Totally Agree, Again i never qualify MOS quality is just pointing out that divided audiences that's a fact...

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ccraft

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@a_a_a: It's a fact alright, MOS is my favorite cbm regardless lol.

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A_A_A

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They didn't bring in Batman because MOS didn't make enough.

They're making a Batman/Superman movie because Avengers proved that team-ups have even higher earnings potential.

But the now entitled B V S was supposed to be Man of Steel sequel, now Batman is the first name of the movie why?

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feedonatreefrog

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Edited By feedonatreefrog

@a_a_a: This Batman/Superman movie IS the sequel to Man of Steel.

Just like The Avengers was the sequel to IM2, Thor, Cap, and TIH.

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EyeDCyou

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Edited By EyeDCyou

@a_a_a said:

@eyedcyou: Do you saw the video at comic con?

Just gonna let that sentence sink in for a minute.

Do you understand what my argument is? Yes, not everyone liked Man of Steel. Not everyone liked Iron Man, X-Men, or Batman Begins either. Not everyone likes everything. A lot of people did like Man of Steel, and it made a ton of money. As far as I'm concerned, that makes it a pretty good candidate to start the DCCU. I'm arguing that Rotten Tomato ratings are not the definitive source of determining whether a movie was good or not. I mean did you really think that Superman Returns was better than Man of Steel? or Spider-Man 3? Was that better than Man of Steel? They both received higher tomato scores, but I think most people would agree they were not better pictures...Whether you like it or not, Man of Steel is the beginning of the DCCU. A lot of us really like that! Not everyone's gonna like it, but like I said...Not everyone likes everything. Personally I didn't like The Avengers. But it doesn't matter what I think, because a lot of other people liked it, and it made a ton of money (just like Man of Steel.)

Oh, and EVERY movie divides audiences. That's how movies work.

And BvS was never officially announced as the Man of Steel sequel. We all just assumed that.

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A_A_A

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@a_a_a: This Batman/Superman movie IS the sequel to Man of Steel.

Just like The Avengers was the sequel to IM2, Thor, Cap, and TIH.

Why is Batman V Superman and not Superman V Batman?

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feedonatreefrog

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Edited By feedonatreefrog

@a_a_a: Why should it be?

The name that comes first in a Batman/Superman (or Superman/Batman) story is irrelevant. Even if both characters are the leads, one name logically has to come first, so they pick the one that sounds best and has more brand equity.

Perhaps you should read a Batman/Superman (or Superman/Batman) comic some time.

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illmatic4177

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@fallingcliffs: In what world is DC making better comics then Marvel lmao? Look at sales, critical reception, the reviews and essential comics listed on here every week. I give DC animated, tv, and games, but Marvel has definitely had the edge in comics.

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HandOfPrometheus

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IDC people can say DC chickened out but I'm happy they changed the date. I thought it was smart to move it to a different month because if BVS is the only superhero movie that month then I'm sorry EVERYONE is going to go see it than some other movie.

The only reason BVS is getting bad rep is because of the many rumors going around with random characters popping up in the movie which were not confirmed. Any movie Marvel throws out people go wankers and automatically see and deem it good. I really enjoyed Cap 2 but the others...no though I have yet to see Iron Man 3.

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EyeDCyou

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@a_a_a: Why should it be?

The name that comes first in a Batman/Superman (or Superman/Batman) story is irrelevant. Even if both characters are the leads, one name logically has to come first, so they pick the one that sounds best and has more brand equity.

Perhaps you should read a Batman/Superman (or Superman/Batman) comic some time.

alphabetical as well.

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A_A_A

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Edited By A_A_A

@eyedcyou: I agree with some of your points but you have to accept that Batman Begins and Iron Man 1 were acclaimed by critics and general movie going audience.

RT Audience Batman Begins 94%

Iron Man 1 91%

Man of Steel 76%

You can't say that was a good start to a franchise with a movie that as 56% in RT that's isn't how the movie business works, if critics didn't have any importance why they exist any way? their opinion is a part of the business, and as you can see even the Audience in RT didn't like Man of Steel as much as other Franchises like Nolan Batman ...

Man of Steel divided Audiences it's a fact...

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A_A_A

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Edited By A_A_A

@eyedcyou: At this point Batman is most valued brand to WB and is name comes first because appeals better to general movie going audience...

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EyeDCyou

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@a_a_a: Please...Please stop using rotten tomatoes for your support evidence...

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A_A_A

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@eyedcyou said:

@a_a_a: Please...Please stop using rotten tomatoes for your support evidence...

Tell me other site? Metacritic 55%... You prove to me that Man of Steel didn't divided audiences...

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EyeDCyou

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@a_a_a: How about just forming your own opinions instead of being a slave to the tomato. I'm done here. You're exhausting.

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A_A_A

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Edited By A_A_A

@eyedcyou said:

@a_a_a: How about just forming your own opinions instead of being a slave to the tomato. I'm done here. You're exhausting.

My opinion and yours is irrelevant in the movie industry, Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic and other critics aren't, they are part of the business, you need to be a great fan to not accept that fact, Critics exist for some reason...

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feedonatreefrog

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Edited By feedonatreefrog

What are you two even arguing over?

Here are the facts:

1) 55% of critics and 76% of audiences liked MOS. EyeDCyou is one of these people.

2) MOS made enough more than enough money to continue the franchise.

The box office results of BvS will tell us how much the divided reception of MOS mattered. But considering how...for example the Transformers movies keep making boatloads of money, I'd say BvS will be more than fine. Plus, it's Batman.

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TheBlackHood

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@a_a_a said:

@eyedcyou: I agree with some of your points but you have to accept that Batman Begins and Iron Man 1 were acclaimed by critics and general movie going audience.

RT Audience Batman Begins 94%

Iron Man 1 91%

Man of Steel 76%

You can't say that was a good start to a franchise with a movie that as 56% in RT that's isn't how the movie business works, if critics didn't have any importance why they exist any way? their opinion is a part of the business, and as you can see even the Audience in RT didn't like Man of Steel as much as other Franchises like Nolan Batman ...

Man of Steel divided Audiences it's a fact...

Oh yeah, critics have SOOOO much power when it comes to summer blockbusters. (Rolling eyes) That's the reason that there have been 4 TRANSFORMERS movies, each making a buttload of money and each being completely panned by critics. The fact of the matter is that you have an axe to grind with Man of Steel so you're going to shape your argument toward that regardless of the facts.

Transformers 57%

Transformers Revenge of the Fallen 19%

Transformers Dark of the Moon 36%

Transformers Age of Extinction 18%

Critic reviews are largely taken with a grain of salt when it comes to Comic Book films or ones made from childhood products. Also, BvS is no more a sequel to Man of Steel than the Avengers was a sequel to Iron Man 2. They've already announced a direct Man of Steel 2 so this film isn't a stand in, it is a team-up film.

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Fallingcliffs

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Edited By Fallingcliffs

@ illmatic4177: You havent read the past few years apparently if you think that, dcs had much better stories between batman and forever evil was better received than thanos storyline. Even on here cv took a poll and most felt forever evil event was better.

Im pretty sure dc has solid numbers as well in comics, and whats marvel doing now so great? Death of wolverine just to sell more books? Posing spiderwomen in nicki minaj poses? Yeah...so great lol. Xmen Isnt bad but it doesn't scream at me like multiversity or batman does.

I'll stick to batman, superdoom, gl, jl, flash archs and multiversity then anything marvel has going. But to each his own. That being said, first issue of superman worth 3.2 million dollars, no marvel comic comes close to that.

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timelord

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Can we stop announcing dates if you have no names to go with them. It's so dam stupid.

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RustyRoy

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2016 is the year of Batman and Superman.

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Fallschirmjager

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One of the discussion on AMC movie talk came out that its not even logistically possible to have both huge movies on one date.,

Why? There isn't enough theaters.

Most big budget blockbusters that take in 500+m will easily demand 4-6 screens. High like 750+ will take up as much as 8.

And sometimes when movies are hitting 1b+, they're taking up 10+ screens in every theater. Campea said that the AMC Burbank in Los Angeles, one of the biggest theaters in the country with 16 screens was playing Avengers on all 16 when it came out.

And not every theater has 16 screens.

So there's literally not room for two huge movies like that.

That being said, it would have been a great weekend. I wish I wasn't 3 years old when Shawkshank and Pulp Fiction came out on the said weekend. That would have been legendary.

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M3th

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@ravenvice01: Don't kid yourself. Even if... if tHe B/S film is in reality lousy, tHe film will still be a success.

-ABstract4$$#073-

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Lvenger

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Edited By Lvenger

@ccraft said:

@a_a_a: It's a bummer that MOS was so hated by so many, I think many things factored in for MOS getting bad reviews, I haven't seen very many valid criticisms for MOS. I thought it was a great start for the DCCU, next movie will be world building so that's exciting.

Look at X-Men 3, people hated that movie, but loved DoFP. BvS still has a chance of getting great reviews.

MOS did extremely well for an origin film, it was up there near the sequel money making movies.

I could write a list as long as my arm or an essay going on for multiple pages of all the reasons why MOS is a terrible movie. And I have done so in my own review of the film. I can assure you as a longtime, if not lifelong Superman fan who knows the character and his history very, very well, that there categorically are valid criticisms for MOS. I'm known as a big Superman fan and expert on here and I have cited a plethora of reasons why the film sucks before and can do so again.

You know as well as I do that there are people who know what they're talking about and can criticise this film's flaws on the spot. To ignore such an evident opinion of MOS as a divisive and controversial film is tantamount to cherry picking your own favourable view that doesn't fit with the rest of the world's perceptions. Whether you liked it or not is up to you but there are flaws with MOS and not one of my criticisms has been properly rebutted by fans or supporters of the film. Not one counter hasn't been sent straight back by the critics of MOS that shows the flaws of MOS for what they really are.

Your correlation of X-Men 3 and DoFP simply does not work because X-Men 3 was a poor end to the original trilogy whereas DoFP was meant to start as a brand new slate. Finally, just because a film makes a lot of money doesn't make it a good film. The Transformers franchise makes billions in film revenue yet they're the epitome of trashy popcorn explosion flicks in cinematic history.

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Nice

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@ccraft: agreed, mos was awesome hated for mostly dumb reasons.

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Someday people are just going to appreciate that we're getting amazing superhero movies......someday.

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Thorverine

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Movies are Marvel's world right now. They've got a formula and DC is trying to catch up. Why on earth they dropped the Nolanverse and rebooted Batman around the mediocore Man of Steel movie is beyond me. Maybe I'm just hoping, but if BvS is another MOS, maybe we get a 4th Nolan Batman. I guess I can dream, lol.

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A_A_A

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@theblackhood said:

@a_a_a said:

@eyedcyou: I agree with some of your points but you have to accept that Batman Begins and Iron Man 1 were acclaimed by critics and general movie going audience.

RT Audience Batman Begins 94%

Iron Man 1 91%

Man of Steel 76%

You can't say that was a good start to a franchise with a movie that as 56% in RT that's isn't how the movie business works, if critics didn't have any importance why they exist any way? their opinion is a part of the business, and as you can see even the Audience in RT didn't like Man of Steel as much as other Franchises like Nolan Batman ...

Man of Steel divided Audiences it's a fact...

Oh yeah, critics have SOOOO much power when it comes to summer blockbusters. (Rolling eyes) That's the reason that there have been 4 TRANSFORMERS movies, each making a buttload of money and each being completely panned by critics. The fact of the matter is that you have an axe to grind with Man of Steel so you're going to shape your argument toward that regardless of the facts.

Transformers 57%

Transformers Revenge of the Fallen 19%

Transformers Dark of the Moon 36%

Transformers Age of Extinction 18%

Critic reviews are largely taken with a grain of salt when it comes to Comic Book films or ones made from childhood products. Also, BvS is no more a sequel to Man of Steel than the Avengers was a sequel to Iron Man 2. They've already announced a direct Man of Steel 2 so this film isn't a stand in, it is a team-up film.

01 This Numbers above of IRM, MOS and BB are from spectators that vote in RT, Critics are different numbers....

Audience RT Batman Begins 94% Critics 85%

Audience RT Iron Man 1 91% Critics 93%

Audience RT Man of Steel 76% Critics 56%

02 Second, Transformers Franchise is losing a lot of money domestically last one only made $243 Million, it s great box office comes from China $300 Million.

03 Third BvS can work but it can fail, we don't Know, if Man of Steel was a better accepted movie by general movie going audiences and critics, had more chances to work.

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A_A_A

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@lvenger said:

@ccraft said:

@a_a_a: It's a bummer that MOS was so hated by so many, I think many things factored in for MOS getting bad reviews, I haven't seen very many valid criticisms for MOS. I thought it was a great start for the DCCU, next movie will be world building so that's exciting.

Look at X-Men 3, people hated that movie, but loved DoFP. BvS still has a chance of getting great reviews.

MOS did extremely well for an origin film, it was up there near the sequel money making movies.

I could write a list as long as my arm or an essay going on for multiple pages of all the reasons why MOS is a terrible movie. And I have done so in my own review of the film. I can assure you as a longtime, if not lifelong Superman fan who knows the character and his history very, very well, that there categorically are valid criticisms for MOS. I'm known as a big Superman fan and expert on here and I have cited a plethora of reasons why the film sucks before and can do so again.

You know as well as I do that there are people who know what they're talking about and can criticise this film's flaws on the spot. To ignore such an evident opinion of MOS as a divisive and controversial film is tantamount to cherry picking your own favourable view that doesn't fit with the rest of the world's perceptions. Whether you liked it or not is up to you but there are flaws with MOS and not one of my criticisms has been properly rebutted by fans or supporters of the film. Not one counter hasn't been sent straight back by the critics of MOS that shows the flaws of MOS for what they really are.

Your correlation of X-Men 3 and DoFP simply does not work because X-Men 3 was a poor end to the original trilogy whereas DoFP was meant to start as a brand new slate. Finally, just because a film makes a lot of money doesn't make it a good film. The Transformers franchise makes billions in film revenue yet they're the epitome of trashy popcorn explosion flicks in cinematic history.

Are you sure that you are a Superman Fan? Your opinion seems impartial!!! i m not used to this behavior in Comicvine...

Very glad that someone can see things without the fanboyism usual stuff...

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ccraft

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@lvenger: I'm not saying MOS was perfect, nor am I saying that because it made a lot of money it's a good movie, I'm just saying the criticisms I've seen aren't very valid, and that MOS did extremely well for an origin film.

I'll just name a few criticisms off the top off my head.

  • Superman didn't save anybody
  • Supes should have found another way instead of killing Zod
  • Supes caused a lot of destruction

Yeah I know who you are lol, we've gotten into this discussion before, not something I'd like to do again, mostly because I'm not on here as much as I used to be. But I'll definitely check out your review for MOS.

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@eyedcyou said:

@a_a_a: Rotten Tomatoes is a great site, I love it. But you can't use it as a total basis for how good a film is. Man of Steel got a 56% from critics, but got like a 76% from users. That's one of the biggest differences I've ever seen.

Not to mention looking through said reviews, the major complaint was that people compared the Christopher Reeves' series to this one. Which, even at the time, the Christopher Reeves movies were out of date with continuity. No one cared.

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nickthedevil

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@ccraft said:

@lvenger: I'm not saying MOS was perfect, nor am I saying that because it made a lot of money it's a good movie, I'm just saying the criticisms I've seen aren't very valid, and that MOS did extremely well for an origin film.

I'll just name a few criticisms off the top off my head.

  • Superman didn't save anybody
  • Supes should have found another way instead of killing Zod
  • Supes caused a lot of destruction

Yeah I know who you are lol, we've gotten into this discussion before, not something I'd like to do again, mostly because I'm not on here as much as I used to be. But I'll definitely check out your review for MOS.

I have to add a few things.

1. Superman was too busy geting shit on by teams of people with his same powers. He did, however, save a bunch of people. One that comes to mind is the Airforce Pilots in Smallville.

2. Superman has already killed Zod in the comics, with agonaizing and slow kryptonite poisoning, he knew if he let Zod live he'd kill again, there was no way to contain him.

3. Superman did? If I remember right, that was all the doing of the Terrain machine, Zod and his soldiers. What destruction did Superman cause that he actively and purposely was a direct result of his action. This was the first time using his powers at a grand scale. Very sure that his being able to stop EVERYTHING would have been complete BS.

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TheBlackHood

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@a_a_a said:
@lvenger said:

@ccraft said:

@a_a_a: It's a bummer that MOS was so hated by so many, I think many things factored in for MOS getting bad reviews, I haven't seen very many valid criticisms for MOS. I thought it was a great start for the DCCU, next movie will be world building so that's exciting.

Look at X-Men 3, people hated that movie, but loved DoFP. BvS still has a chance of getting great reviews.

MOS did extremely well for an origin film, it was up there near the sequel money making movies.

I could write a list as long as my arm or an essay going on for multiple pages of all the reasons why MOS is a terrible movie. And I have done so in my own review of the film. I can assure you as a longtime, if not lifelong Superman fan who knows the character and his history very, very well, that there categorically are valid criticisms for MOS. I'm known as a big Superman fan and expert on here and I have cited a plethora of reasons why the film sucks before and can do so again.

You know as well as I do that there are people who know what they're talking about and can criticise this film's flaws on the spot. To ignore such an evident opinion of MOS as a divisive and controversial film is tantamount to cherry picking your own favourable view that doesn't fit with the rest of the world's perceptions. Whether you liked it or not is up to you but there are flaws with MOS and not one of my criticisms has been properly rebutted by fans or supporters of the film. Not one counter hasn't been sent straight back by the critics of MOS that shows the flaws of MOS for what they really are.

Your correlation of X-Men 3 and DoFP simply does not work because X-Men 3 was a poor end to the original trilogy whereas DoFP was meant to start as a brand new slate. Finally, just because a film makes a lot of money doesn't make it a good film. The Transformers franchise makes billions in film revenue yet they're the epitome of trashy popcorn explosion flicks in cinematic history.

Are you sure that you are a Superman Fan? Your opinion seems impartial!!! i m not used to this behavior in Comicvine...

Very glad that someone can see things without the fanboyism usual stuff...

You want to talk about "fanboyism"? I looked through your forum comments, all "35" of them. I suppose since you seem SO familiar with Comicvine that you are on a new ID. All of your comments as well as your picture are pro-Marvel, even the battle posts you comment on. There is nothing wrong but being a Marvel or DC fanboy. There is something wrong with being one and then accusing others of the same thing as a form of deflection.

The fact of the matter is that YOU like the Marvel movies and disliked Man of Steel or DC in general so you are selecting which statistics, like RT critic numbers, you use to create your narrative rather than coming to a conclusion based on all the facts. There are plenty of franchises, especially big blockbusters, that are completely panned by critics from the first film and continue to make sequels and money: Transformers, Fast and the Furious, The Mummy Trilogy, etc. None of them started with a RT critic score any higher than Man of Steel. Again, I don't put much stock in RT but since it seems to be the sole crux of your argument I thought I would give some examples.

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A_A_A

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@theblackhood said:

@a_a_a said:
@lvenger said:

@ccraft said:

@a_a_a: It's a bummer that MOS was so hated by so many, I think many things factored in for MOS getting bad reviews, I haven't seen very many valid criticisms for MOS. I thought it was a great start for the DCCU, next movie will be world building so that's exciting.

Look at X-Men 3, people hated that movie, but loved DoFP. BvS still has a chance of getting great reviews.

MOS did extremely well for an origin film, it was up there near the sequel money making movies.

I could write a list as long as my arm or an essay going on for multiple pages of all the reasons why MOS is a terrible movie. And I have done so in my own review of the film. I can assure you as a longtime, if not lifelong Superman fan who knows the character and his history very, very well, that there categorically are valid criticisms for MOS. I'm known as a big Superman fan and expert on here and I have cited a plethora of reasons why the film sucks before and can do so again.

You know as well as I do that there are people who know what they're talking about and can criticise this film's flaws on the spot. To ignore such an evident opinion of MOS as a divisive and controversial film is tantamount to cherry picking your own favourable view that doesn't fit with the rest of the world's perceptions. Whether you liked it or not is up to you but there are flaws with MOS and not one of my criticisms has been properly rebutted by fans or supporters of the film. Not one counter hasn't been sent straight back by the critics of MOS that shows the flaws of MOS for what they really are.

Your correlation of X-Men 3 and DoFP simply does not work because X-Men 3 was a poor end to the original trilogy whereas DoFP was meant to start as a brand new slate. Finally, just because a film makes a lot of money doesn't make it a good film. The Transformers franchise makes billions in film revenue yet they're the epitome of trashy popcorn explosion flicks in cinematic history.

Are you sure that you are a Superman Fan? Your opinion seems impartial!!! i m not used to this behavior in Comicvine...

Very glad that someone can see things without the fanboyism usual stuff...

You want to talk about "fanboyism"? I looked through your forum comments, all "35" of them. I suppose since you seem SO familiar with Comicvine that you are on a new ID. All of your comments as well as your picture are pro-Marvel, even the battle posts you comment on. There is nothing wrong but being a Marvel or DC fanboy. There is something wrong with being one and then accusing others of the same thing as a form of deflection.

The fact of the matter is that YOU like the Marvel movies and disliked Man of Steel or DC in general so you are selecting which statistics, like RT critic numbers, you use to create your narrative rather than coming to a conclusion based on all the facts. There are plenty of franchises, especially big blockbusters, that are completely panned by critics from the first film and continue to make sequels and money: Transformers, Fast and the Furious, The Mummy Trilogy, etc. None of them started with a RT critic score any higher than Man of Steel. Again, I don't put much stock in RT but since it seems to be the sole crux of your argument I thought I would give some examples.

WHERE DID I SAY THAT I DON'T LIKE MAN OF STEEL?

WHERE DID I SAY THAT MARVEL MOVIES ARE BETTER THAN DC?

May arguments are based in the movie industry not in my personal opinion, in this topic i only appointed numbers and justify them with the industry perspective, i don't understand your quote, you are just trying downgrade the facts that i presented, and that's ridiculous because i didn't create this facts...

I some of you prove that Man of Steel didn't divide audiences, with just not your personal opinion, i may change my perspective of the movie impact in general movie going audiences and critics...

Fast Five 77% in RT

Fast & Furious 6 68% in RT

TELL ME WHY CRITICS EXIST?