Laurence Fishburne is the New Perry White in Man of Steel

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Edited By Marshal Victory

@SurelockeHomes said:

                    @Marshal Victory: The movie casters must not have felt like it was that important, since they casted him(even though movies are notorious for changing material). Besides, we can't change anything about what they did. I, like many others here, am also feeling like this has gone on a while. So I guess we'll agree to disagree.

Well met an well just agree to disagree.Maybe we will have a converstaion for another day.Much better handleing things in a gentleman maner imho.

12 years ago

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Edited By Osiris1428

@Marshal Victory said:

@Osiris1428:
No the problem you missed is i said i prefer.Never said i couldnt enjoy a movie that wasnt 100% few are even more than 70%.Sin city is a good example of staying very close an true to source material.it cost 40 mill an made 158 mill world wide boxoffice http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=sincity.htm
vs catwoman 100mil budget made 82mill boxoffice world wide http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=catwoman.htm

Iron man http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=ironman.htm seemed to do well an it didnt change characters to much either.Whatever problems you have seeing that movies closer to source material do better box office i would hope isnt one of them.

So, now you are saying that this film will not do very well due to not following the source material to the letter? Like I just said previously? The last Superman movie wasn't exactly a flop at the box office, either.

Such needless nitpicking, *@#%%&^%!!!!!!!!

This is going nowhere. You are just one of "those people" who try to talk up the supposed "chip on the shoulders" of others without realizing the gargantuan boulder on yours. Get the stick out of you butt. LF has the role of Perry White. If the movie sucks (Have you seen 'Sucker Punch'??? Zack Snyder what you should be worried about, not Laurence Fishburne playing Perry White.) , you and your type will no doubtedly plant this squarely on the shoulders of decision making that lead to things like Mr. Fishburne acquiring that role. And if it does well in the box office and is a great film, you will more than likely not bring it up for fear of a backlash for B!TC#ING about something so trivial in an otherwise great movie.

Sin City is a graphic novel whose continuity is confined within those few books. When we are talking about Superman, there are so many different interpretations of the character, the mythos, everything. When I see a movie of Batman, I just hope they stay true to the spirit of the character and his mythos. LF as PW...I can see him pulling it off. Not a big deal that his melanin levels are higher than Jackie Cooper's (who played him well in previous movies). I'm just going to agree to disagree that LF playing this character is a big deal.

12 years ago

SurelockeHomes

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Edited By SurelockeHomes

@Marshal Victory: No wait I changed my mind. I want the source material honored now and a white man to be Perry. I want Hugh Laurie!

12 years ago

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Edited By Batmanclone152

@Marshal Victory said:

@Batmanclone152:
Right i get where your coming from an i know i barely in most peoples view, intellegent enuff to respond. But lets look at the history of this.An see how much its helped.

Years ago girls that i watched over as my own were watching http://www.comicvine.com/catwoman/223-46/ on dvd an got to the sepcial disc with all the background stuff. By the way girls thought the movie was meh to dumb at times. but they noticed the comic seciton catwoman was cacasian an in the moive not. That In the old tv series their was difrent catwoman including http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eartha_Kitt an asked why was the race changed?

First of all lets get this straight. The Cat woman movie sucked because the writing was horrible, not because they cast a biracial woman as cat woman. By the way oddly enough I had the opposite experience. The summer after the movie came out I was working as a camp counselor for kids age 8-15 and Catwoman was one of the movies the kids got to watch on movie day. After the movie was over I was ready to tell the kids how much different the movie was from the comics and how much it sucked but the girls in the group loved the movie. Black, White, Asian, and Hispanic, it did not matter, they all loved the movie. It actually got them into comics, but they were a little disappointed to find out that Catwoman was white in the comics and had no powers.

@Marshal Victory

said:

Oh an before any one is ignorant enuff to say that girls racist.Her 2 daughters she had are mixed race.I consider them my grandkids.

That means absolutely nothing. Slave masters had sex with Black women who they looked down upon all the time (no offense though)

@Marshal Victory said:

The ideal is a world where races could get along an play together.Changing a characters race doesnt further that goal at all.It allows race baiters to have fun tho.An as you said the change realy doesnt matter so then why do it?

I meant is does not matter to those who are complaining, it is such a small and insignificant thing. People make it seem like this will ruin the movie overall. And yes having diversity does in fact bring other people who my have not been interested in seeing a movie or a tv show in, I have seen it many times myself. But changing a side character is not going to kill anyone nor the movie it's self.

@Marshal Victory said:

Mark my words in the end the newDCu52 scaddo final zero crisis of infanite thingy will change the dcu an make perry white in the comics black.An if they dont why is dc racist!Will that make others fill good about themselves ?Or will it just add to confusion because of 70 years of back ground thrown out the window.

Im not sure what you were getting at here, but I can say that DC has always been pretty bland and boring and could actually do with some good long lasting Diversity. I hate that all the Black superheroes in DC basically get their powers from some kind of object. John Stewart and his ring, Jakeem thunder and his magic pen, Vixen and her Magic totem, Firestorm and the goofy having to merge with another person thing, Cyborg and his robotics, Steel and his Robot suit, The specter and the specter spirit. Can we please get a Black Superhero from DC that does not have to rely on an object or another person? And it does not Help that they killed the Atom on Asian American history month >.<

@Marshal Victory said:

To say theirs no diveristy makes me wonder how hard people realy look.

Thats just it, you should not have to look and search and find a treasure map and say clatu verta nikto 7 times then spin around 3 times and recite the pledge of allegiance and then fight a guardian skeleton just to find diversity in your favorite program,movie,comic, or videogame. It should just be there.
Not having it there will hurt in the long run more than having it there.

@Marshal Victory said:

Same for tv but if theirs less on their now blame reality tv .As its killing scripted shows.

here is an Industry secret, from some one who works in the TV biz............. Those shows are scripted as well XD

@Marshal Victory said:

P.S. reguarding supermans costume wth does he have scales?Why cant catpain america have bulletproof scale mail like the comics.But superman the bullet proof guy has scale mail look?

It looks like Superman is wearing a Blue Lizard costume................................... which kicks even more arse!!!!

12 years ago

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Edited By Do I have to give a name?

@Batmanclone152 said:

@Marshal Victory

said:
Oh an before any one is ignorant enuff to say that girls racist.Her 2 daughters she had are mixed race.I consider them my grandkids.
That means absolutely nothing. Slave masters had sex with Black women who they looked down upon all the time (no offense though)

I always found this to be a ridiculously weak argument. Just because someone's married to someone of another colour doesn't mean they're not racist.

Perhaps not, but I'd say it's a pretty good sign that they're not. And usually when people say it, the only thing they've got to indicate that the person in question might be racist is their skin colour....

Though I agree with pretty much everything else you said.

12 years ago

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Edited By Marshal Victory

@Osiris1428 said:

                    @Marshal Victory said:

@Osiris1428:
No the problem you missed is i said i prefer.Never said i couldnt enjoy a movie that wasnt 100% few are even more than 70%.Sin city is a good example of staying very close an true to source material.it cost 40 mill an made 158 mill world wide boxoffice http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=sincity.htm
vs catwoman 100mil budget made 82mill boxoffice world wide http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=catwoman.htm

Iron man http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=ironman.htm seemed to do well an it didnt change characters to much either.Whatever problems you have seeing that movies closer to source material do better box office i would hope isnt one of them.

So, now you are saying that this film will not do very well due to not following the source material to the letter? Like I just said previously? The last Superman movie wasn't exactly a flop at the box office, either.

Such needless nitpicking, *@#%%&^%!!!!!!!!

This is going nowhere. You are just one of "those people" who try to talk up the supposed "chip on the shoulders" of others without realizing the gargantuan boulder on yours. Get the stick out of you butt. LF has the role of Perry White. If the movie sucks (Have you seen 'Sucker Punch'??? Zack Snyder what you should be worried about, not Laurence Fishburne playing Perry White.) , you and your type will no doubtedly plant this squarely on the shoulders of decision making that lead to things like Mr. Fishburne acquiring that role. And if it does well in the box office and is a great film, you will more than likely not bring it up for fear of a backlash for B!TC#ING about something so trivial in an otherwise great movie.  Sin City is a graphic novel whose continuity is confined within those few books. When we are talking about Superman, there are so many different interpretations of the character, the mythos, everything. When I see a movie of Batman, I just hope they stay true to the spirit of the character and his mythos. LF as PW...I can see him pulling it off. Not a big deal that his melanin levels are higher than Jackie Cooper's (who played him well in previous movies). I'm just going to agree to disagree that LF playing this character is a big deal.

Right an you havent read the contect of my argument in this thread an name call none the less.How enlightned of you.The argument has been by many this does not matter its a side role.It should be noted each time its dont it hasnt mattered helped the role or made the world a better place.It never stoped race riots/crime any where in the world.Thats a fact.

By way your spawn expample back then i wasnt on the internet then ,well their wasnt much of one .But ya when things are from x race to white its got its own name now an then its "whitewash" but the reverse is called diversity.Movie bob does point out its a double standard after all.

An since its a pointless change .Why do it?One you claim thats not a big deal but have posted in this thread video as well as posted number of times it must mean somthing to you.Stated threw out this thread why it matters with Perry Whites background histroy the change screws over parts of the characters history.But hey it probly wount be 70% of any version of the comics.Your writing much into what im saying.Never said it would fail i just backed up what is fact by the numbers movies closer to the source materal do better over all. Nor do i belive if it fails it be LF fault by any means.

An while i apreciate the consern of a stick up my butt ,rest asured their is none.Only in your um imagination an i wount ask what thats about.Good luck with your day none the less.

12 years ago

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Edited By Osiris1428

@Do I have to give a name? said:

@Batmanclone152 said:

@Marshal Victory
said:
Oh an before any one is ignorant enuff to say that girls racist.Her 2 daughters she had are mixed race.I consider them my grandkids.
That means absolutely nothing. Slave masters had sex with Black women who they looked down upon all the time (no offense though)

I always found this to be a ridiculously weak argument. Just because someone's married to someone of another colour doesn't mean they're not racist. Perhaps not, but I'd say it's a pretty good sign that they're not. And usually when people say it, the only thing they've got to indicate that the person in question might be racist is their skin colour.... Though I agree with pretty much everything else you said.

You ever heard that joke from Chris Rock: "You know you're a racist when you know exactly how many black friends you have!" You know, just in case someone calls you racist,lmao!!!

12 years ago

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Edited By Osiris1428

12 years ago

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Edited By Marshal Victory

@Batmanclone152:
Um where to start an cant use the quote for some reson it messing up atm.

So ill do best i can. Which is prolby not that well at all.Yeah i knew many reality tv shows are scripted in a jerry springer way.But they are whats killing cripted tv.Should you have problems with not enuff of this race or that in films or tv realy you should take it up with the writers union in hollywood.Their the ones who put this stuff out.Sure a dirctor can change things but mostly its the unions fault .Its goten worse imho since reality shows started takeing over.

@Marshal Victory

said:

"Oh an before any one is ignorant enuff to say that girls racist.Her 2 daughters she had are mixed race.I consider them my grandkids. "

@Batmanclone152: "That means absolutely nothing. Slave masters had sex with Black women who they looked down upon all the time (no offense though)  "

Yeah thats not projecting your own view on people you know nothing about at all their.(note i typed that as sarcasticlly as posible).You dont get to call some one racist an then go "no offense".Week very week sauce .This almost discredits every thing else you said.Its not just grasping at straws its building a straw man argument.An every time i see starw man argumens one cant help but  think of scarecrow from wizard of oz an ..

To be clear im sure you have a brian.It is emotions that project racism onto people one knows nothing of.But you know .. no offense.

As far as not seeing diveristy ,it shouldnt be something one has to look for .That we can agree on.Maybe its the old forest for the trees argument.Some may never be enuff true enuff.But again depending on the stories , its seting in time etc Odds are their not doing with superman a retro 1950s  superman story.

Shows i watch seem to be diverse..Shows i like seem to  have varied casts Some one with a real chip on their shoulder on another board posted "what role was the last minority you seen on tv play?odds are it was a drug dealer or user" So from that one can gather that person doesnt watch. Justified,Burn notice,Misfits,Covert Affairs.Human target Anime ,Chaos,No ordinary faimly,Archer also Suits an thats just some of my hulu favorites /shurg

So ya saying the role doesnt matter their for its ok to race chage the role .It should dam well be insulting to the minority to be cast in a role that "doesnt matter".Just for the change.Please note in most of the shows i listed their in positons of power ,law enforcement , lawyers,etc. Well except Misfits casue the whole cast is all messed up.Tho one cold aruge Curtis is the most moral of the group trying to rewrite time when he suffers remorse an regret.

When the movie comes out about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Airmen called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Tails will you be going you know their wasnt enuff diveristy in that?Or will it be more based on history an that will be good enuff?Cry for diveristy all you want.It was will smith who turned down the role of neo in the matrix just to make the willd wild west.

Odds of superman sucking because of LF is 0.But the odds of it sucking because of some of the other casting who will have to put their fingerprints on the film to, is fairly high.LF is a great actor an totaly wasted on this role.

Now excuse me while i go listen to The Heavy :The house that dirt built. So i can try an get "if you only had a brain " from being stuck in my own thoughts all day..

12 years ago

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Edited By Marshal Victory

@Batmanclone152:

"First of all lets get this straight. The Cat woman movie sucked because the writing was horrible, not because they cast a biracial woman as cat woman. By the way oddly enough I had the opposite experience. The summer after the movie came out I was working as a camp counselor for kids age 8-15 and Catwoman was one of the movies the kids got to watch on movie day. After the movie was over I was ready to tell the kids how much different the movie was from the comics and how much it sucked but the girls in the group loved the movie. Black, White, Asian, and Hispanic, it did not matter, they all loved the movie. It actually got them into comics, but they were a little disappointed to find out that Catwoman was white in the comics and had no powers. "

So you do understand that you proved two points im making in that paragrah.1 that movies not based off source material more than not ,will suck an .2 that the race change did in fact disapoint when seen the comic was not like that.

Thank gawd for The Heavy or id be stuck with if you only had a brian all day long...ironicly bands made up of difrent races as well.Here i like to share..

12 years ago

Do I have to give a name?

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Edited By Osiris1428

Yep, Laurence Fishburne was a great choice! So far that and the costume are the only things I'm looking forward to.

12 years ago

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Edited By Do I have to give a name?

@Osiris1428 said:

@Do I have to give a name? said:
@Batmanclone152 said:

@Marshal Victory
said:
Oh an before any one is ignorant enuff to say that girls racist.Her 2 daughters she had are mixed race.I consider them my grandkids.
That means absolutely nothing. Slave masters had sex with Black women who they looked down upon all the time (no offense though)

I always found this to be a ridiculously weak argument. Just because someone's married to someone of another colour doesn't mean they're not racist. Perhaps not, but I'd say it's a pretty good sign that they're not. And usually when people say it, the only thing they've got to indicate that the person in question might be racist is their skin colour.... Though I agree with pretty much everything else you said.
You ever heard that joke from Chris Rock: "You know you're a racist when you know exactly how many black friends you have!" You know, just in case someone calls you racist,lmao!!!

Lol. Well in those circumstances I could maybe see there being something to it.

12 years ago

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Edited By Batmanclone152

@Marshal Victory said:

So you do understand that you proved two points im making in that paragrah.1 that movies not based off source material more than not ,will suck an .2 that the race change did in fact disapoint when seen the comic was not like that.

1. No,No, movies not totally based off the source material will not always suck. Just movies not totally based off the source material that also happen to have sucky writers.

The Dark Knight = Awesome movie with vast changes to the source material with great writing.

Catwoman = Crappy movie with vast changes to the source material with sucky writers.

They may very well have been able to make the movie work, If they had writers that knew more about what they were doing.

2. I did not prove your point at all. You said the changes would turn people off of the material, which is the total opposite of what happened. The movie actually got them into comics and they love reading Catwoman comics and they love reading Batman. One of the girls now is even into Wonderwoman. They liked the idea that catwoman was not white in the film and they also like the character in the comic book as well.

@Marshal Victory

said:

Um where to start an cant use the quote for some reson it messing up atm.

So ill do best i can. Which is prolby not that well at all.Yeah i knew many reality tv shows are scripted in a jerry springer way.But they are whats killing cripted tv.Should you have problems with not enuff of this race or that in films or tv realy you should take it up with the writers union in hollywood.Their the ones who put this stuff out.Sure a dirctor can change things but mostly its the unions fault .Its goten worse imho since reality shows started takeing over.

As some one who works on Radio/tv/film projects I can tell you that the greed in the industry knows no bounds and you are right. But there are two parts to it. The producers, writers, and Directors only put out things they think the audience wants to see. Which means they look at how people respond to what is being shown and if it gets a good response, more of it will be on the way. But if it gets a bad response.... we won't be seeing anymore of it. My point is people crying every time a character that is not a white hetero male shows up causes these producers, writers, and directors to decide that rather than making things like that which get bad responses, they are going to "shoehorn" diversity into something the majority do want to watch. They are only going to try to make money and if you tell them you don't want a Black Panther movie, then they are going to cast Laurence Fishburne as Perry White.

Yeah thats not projecting your own view on people you know nothing about at all their.(note i typed that as sarcasticlly as posible).You dont get to call some one racist an then go "no offense".Week very week sauce .This almost discredits every thing else you said.Its not just grasping at straws its building a straw man argument.An every time i see starw man argumens one cant help but think of scarecrow from wizard of oz an ..

To be clear im sure you have a brian.It is emotions that project racism onto people one knows nothing of.But you know .. no offense.

I was not calling anyone racist, I was just pointing out the fact that bringing up a person having biracial children means absolutely nothing. Your correct, I don't know this person but the point is that them having biracial children does not matter either way. A person who sleeps with another person who is of a different race and or has children with them can still be a racist. By the no offense part I meant this may or may not necessarily apply in this particular case, but that the argument you used is meaningless for future reference.

@Marshal Victory

said:

As far as not seeing diveristy ,it shouldnt be something one has to look for .That we can agree on.Maybe its the old forest for the trees argument.Some may never be enuff true enuff.But again depending on the stories , its seting in time etc Odds are their not doing with superman a retro 1950s superman story.

Shows i watch seem to be diverse..Shows i like seem to have varied casts Some one with a real chip on their shoulder on another board posted "what role was the last minority you seen on tv play?odds are it was a drug dealer or user" So from that one can gather that person doesnt watch. Justified,Burn notice,Misfits,Covert Affairs.Human target Anime ,Chaos,No ordinary faimly,Archer also Suits an thats just some of my hulu favorites /shurg

So are any of the minority characters in the shows you mentioned the MAIN characters? or are they just playing the typical best friend role? are there 15 white people on the show and only one minority like usual?

The answer is probably yes.......

When people talk about having diversity I don't think they mean having just one token character and that is it. I don't think they mean having 30 white characters and then one black gay Jewish woman who happens to be a quadriplegic on the cast. People mean having an unusual main character that does not fit the hetero Caucasian male stamp who Hetero Caucasian males actually get behind and support rather than seeing it as a slight to them and the evil vile horrible thing that is out to get all Hetero white males called political correctness. Most of the images you do see of black characters are drug dealers and thugs and such, and if it is not that then they are the token. I think what people are talking about when they say they want diversity is for most of the cast to not be totally lily white all the time. But until people can get behind and support shows and movies like that we are going to keep seeing Laurence Fishburne being cast as Perry White.

@Marshal Victory

said:

Please note in most of the shows i listed their in positons of power ,law enforcement , lawyers,etc. Well except Misfits casue the whole cast is all messed up.Tho one cold aruge Curtis is the most moral of the group trying to rewrite time when he suffers remorse an regret.

That is all well and good, and it is not like we have not made any progress. But do you seriously think if they were the main characters and were not playing second fiddle to a Hetero white male character that people would still want to watch the show?No, the show would have been canned a long time ago.

I loved a little tv show called Undercovers that came out a little while ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undercovers_%28TV_series%29

The show was about a black couple( two Biracial people) that happened to be secret agents. The show was not about a Hetero white male saving the day. It was actually something very different and well written........ which was why I knew it was going to get canned with the quickness. And again, Until people start supporting things like this they really have no business complaining about The Perry White change....

@Marshal Victory

said:

When the movie comes out about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Airmen called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Tails will you be going you know their wasnt enuff diveristy in that?Or will it be more based on history an that will be good enuff?Cry for diveristy all you want.It was will smith who turned down the role of neo in the matrix just to make the willd wild west. Odds of superman sucking because of LF is 0.But the odds of it sucking because of some of the other casting who will have to put their fingerprints on the film to, is fairly high.LF is a great actor an totaly wasted on this role. Now excuse me while i go listen to The Heavy :The house that dirt built. So i can try an get "if you only had a brain " from being stuck in my own thoughts all day..

1. Why would anyone have a problem with diversity in that film?

2. Second I am not sure of what you are trying to get at here but the Matrix had on of the most diverse casts in a Science fiction movie in history. Out side of Neo and Trinity pretty much all the big players in the story were nonwhite. And I don't think Will Smith is exactly hurting for movie roles(I actually like Wild Wild west, but that is another story). Again though, do you think anyone would have paid any attention to that franchise if Neo was not the Hetero, white, male hero???

3. Odds of Superman sucking because of Laurence Fishburne are Zero, and that is the whole point. It's not going to make anyone's head explode, its not going to make Superman, the white hetero male fantasy liaison lose his powers and fall out of the sky, nor is it going to cause an earthquake, it just is. He is a side character being played by a good actor and changing him around is still such a small insignificant thing that anyone who actually does get they're movie going experience ruined by it has a lot more to worry about than Perry White being cast as a black man instead of a white man.

12 years ago

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Edited By Marshal Victory

@Batmanclone152:
Very good arguments ,mostly all of them.Tho when you get to token part... becaue changeing any race to another seems very token.

The biracial point odds are a person who bears a multiracial child will not hate the other part of thier childs race.Especialy if said person has multiple kids with the same person.True any human on this planet can display a bigotry or racism.Reguardless of their skin color.To belive other wise is the same as tho who claim "i cant be a racist im a minority !"

The show in quesiton you mention i rember it.I dont watch network tv when things come out. Just on hulu or the network sites.But i remember many on http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/undercovers-nbc/ liked the show.Much for a show to make ,it is almost chance it seems.or the netowrk them selves shooting the show in the foot! Then expecting it to win the rateings race.Like http://www.cbs.com/primetime/chaos/video/ the network showed the serioes episode where were in a chronical order ( as in time passes an events carry over) out of order.

Also do your self a favor an watch http://www.amazon.com/Human-Target-Complete-First-Season/dp/B002ZCY84U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312746730&sr=8-1 not only is it thorw back 80s style action.But theirs even a discussion of super man as jesus !Sure you can say Chance is the main character but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_McBride character was 1/3rd of the show.

As far as red tales film an diveristy .The point their is if a race change is done their should be some outcry.It doesnt seem smart over all when companies pay big money to make a movie based on a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property an then just use a few names from said source material.Spending millions on redesigning characters costumes ,time periods an even yes token race changes.This is why most of the time people say the book was better than the movie.It eems would be much easyer to start fresh.But that would require actual creative people .Not those who just want to changes things so they can have their fingerpints on the film.

The point about smith in matirx is this. He could have been nero .He picked http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Wild_West for what ever reson. Tho reading much of his politics it may well been "diversity" an bet he regrets it to this day.Ofcourse he coulda just been a fan of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Conrad .Who is also know for playing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pappy_Boyington in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baa_Baa_Black_Sheep_(television_series) which the men of pappys unit hated because it was ficton.Or as "hogwash and Hollywood hokum".

Which i think realy sums up "diveristy" in holywood its fake.Never helps move the people forward.Hasnt stoped one crime.

Change that doesnt matter is needless.

An i aruge still a waste of a great actor on a side role.Also since your in the "Buisness" can you explain to me why some hollywood papers claim LF has crossed racial dvides by playing a black cowboy?Are they so inwraped in thier own hollywood histroy they truely do not know actualy history?Cause since i was a kid i knew their was cowboys off various races.Maybe they never watched any pbs in the 80s?

Last point .Part about the kids being disapoiinted when they seen the race change .That does prove my point.It causes needless confusion/disapointment..Tho it begs the quesiton if it realy doesnt matter why they were disapointed at all?.d say it destroys the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief .Not that one race couldnt be x of that one role But that role changes race from x to y to z.

12 years ago

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Edited By Marshal Victory

@Osiris1428 said:

Think youll enjoy this comic http://tytempletonart.wordpress.com/2011/08/06/ultimate-spider-man-bun-toons-yay/ an maybe get the irony hes trying to bring to this. But missing the point. as badly as
that vid or Peter davild in the forums..
"

Peter David | August 6, 2011 at 3:48 PM | Reply

Yeah, I have to say, as the creator of a half-Latino Spider-Man with organic web shooters, neither of which drew anything beyond a “Wow, that’s cool!” response when Rick and I first did it, it’s been kind of a laugh for me to watch fans go bugnuts crazy over organic webshooters in the movie and a half-Latino Spider-Man in the Ultimate titles.

PAD"

Wow is his ego that big he doest see the spider man movies hes talking about a character not his? Movie was about peter parker an not http://www.comicvine.com/spider-man-2099/29-40524/ Miguel O'Hara.

Even movie bob doesnt care in the ultimates .They have a new spider man its the ultimates .Guy in the vid their is trying to joke about it i guess. Course his jokeing about x race has to give y race this role seem silly.

Its the way marvel handled it that seems racist to me.Intead of leading up to it they before the comic comes out, they spoil the whole thing for... publicity about .. race.For publicity.Which oh i dont know is why it was done? Something they would never admit if true.

Not the same thing as changeing some one in a movie from x to y race at all .The examples in the cartoon their are all difrent people.Many didnt "replace" any one they had their own series along side the characters they are similar to.An with a few exceptions they didnt make the grade .Or they would still have their own comics right?

12 years ago

Hunter114

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Edited By Hunter114

I gotta say that having seen and read the character of Perry White and having seen some of the characters that Fishburne has played before, I can't say that understand the choice fully or that I think it's a good idea at the moment, simply because I don't think he would give an accurate portrayal of the character that I know, but I am interested in how it will turn out and what he does with the character.

12 years ago

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Edited By Osiris1428

@Marshal Victory: Ummm....your response to that video I posted...please edit it and tidy that up please. It makes my eyes bleed to read it, and I cannot understand what you are saying.

12 years ago

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Edited By Batmanclone152

@Marshal Victory said:

Very good arguments ,mostly all of them.Tho when you get to token part... becaue changeing any race to another seems very token.

Maybe, But as long as shows,movies,comics, and videogames that are headlined by non white hetero males are not supported, diversity is going to have to start somewhere.

@Marshal Victory

said:

The biracial point odds are a person who bears a multiracial child will not hate the other part of thier childs race.Especialy if said person has multiple kids with the same person.True any human on this planet can display a bigotry or racism.Reguardless of their skin color.To belive other wise is the same as tho who claim "i cant be a racist im a minority !"

Basically the fact that a person has one or multiple biracial children does not exempt or hint at them not being a racist. There are multiple cases of women and men who were married or dating interracialy who had biracial children with a person who would still call that person and they're own children racial epithets and every other name in the book. There are cases where after taking care of the children for five years people have dumped them on the side of the road in order to move to a new place and start a new life. From my own experiences I have witnessed similar situations. So a person having biracial children can go either way. Heck, Strom Thurmond had a black daughter......

@Marshal Victory

said:

The show in quesiton you mention i rember it.I dont watch network tv when things come out. Just on hulu or the network sites.But i remember many on http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/undercovers-nbc/ liked the show.Much for a show to make ,it is almost chance it seems.or the netowrk them selves shooting the show in the foot! Then expecting it to win the rateings race.Like http://www.cbs.com/primetime/chaos/video/ the network showed the serioes episode where were in a chronical order ( as in time passes an events carry over) out of order.

I am having a hard time figuring out what you just said because a lot of the words I think are misspelled. I really don't care about spelling on a message board and I hate people who do so I will just try to get from this what I can. I surmise you mean the episodes were shown out of order for the show? that excuse is a little iffy because if people can follows shows like Lost and Heroes which Jump around constantly and make no sense what so ever, Undercovers should not be a big deal. From what I hear the ratings were bad because no one tuned in. It was a bit more the fault of the absent audience than the Network it's self. I hate though when the network places shows in a weaker time slot on purpose like The CW did the tv show the Game.

In that particular case it was the network shooting the tv show in the foot for what reason I will never know. The show had great ratings from what I heard even if it was placed on the death time slot.

@Marshal Victory

said:

Also do your self a favor an watch http://www.amazon.com/Human-Target-Complete-First-Season/dp/B002ZCY84U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312746730&sr=8-1 not only is it thorw back 80s style action.But theirs even a discussion of super man as jesus !Sure you can say Chance is the main character but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_McBride character was 1/3rd of the show.

Already watch the show, and Love it. But yes, Chance is the main character and Chi Mcbride is the Black best friend.

@Marshal Victory

said:

As far as red tales film an diveristy .The point their is if a race change is done their should be some outcry.It doesnt seem smart over all when companies pay big money to make a movie based on a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property an then just use a few names from said source material.Spending millions on redesigning characters costumes ,time periods an even yes token race changes.This is why most of the time people say the book was better than the movie.It eems would be much easyer to start fresh.But that would require actual creative people .Not those who just want to changes things so they can have their fingerpints on the film.

Hollywood is not creative anymore and I doubt we will be seeing anything as such in the next 10 years. The endless like of remakes of this and remakes of that which are not as good as the original are going to keep coming. And when you are dealing with people who are incredibly uncreative some things are going to be changed around. My problem is that it is only a problem when things are changed around when it comes to diversity. There are vast changes in material, A character is much taller, much older has the wrong type of accent, has the wrong type of clothes, comes across as dumber than they actually were in the book, the vehicle they drive is vastly different from the book, the hair style is different. But all that is ok..... just as long as you don't make them Black/Asian/Hispanic. And I don't think it is going to take any more money putting LF in the role of Perry White than it would to put a white actor in the same role. Also Redtails is not a good example because that movie has historical context, correct? I don't even think they could get away with changing most of the cast into something else.

@Marshal Victory

said:

The point about smith in matirx is this. He could have been nero .He picked http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Wild_West for what ever reson. Tho reading much of his politics it may well been "diversity" an bet he regrets it to this day.Ofcourse he coulda just been a fan of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Conrad .Who is also know for playing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pappy_Boyington in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baa_Baa_Black_Sheep_(television_series) which the men of pappys unit hated because it was ficton.Or as "hogwash and Hollywood hokum".

Which i think realy sums up "diveristy" in holywood its fake.Never helps move the people forward.Hasnt stoped one crime.

I think in the long run, him turning down the matrix was the best thing for the franchise. There is no way that franchise would have been as huge as it was with a Black man in the main role as the hero(cold hard truth) and it opened up for even more diversity to enter the films. The Matrix is one of my fav science fiction films but even I know that there had to be a Hetero white male hero for certain people to pay attention to it.

If you think diversity is supposed to stop crime, or people from raping other people, or children from starving than you have the wrong idea. This is an entertainment medium, for people to be entertained. Diversity actually adds to the entertainment value and includes people who otherwise would not be included. I know we like to think racism is over because we have a biracial president, but people seem to forget the opposition even he goes through on a daily basis. Seeing people portrayed a certain way can have lasting mental effects on those people as well as others. We laugh and joke about the fact that the Black guy always gets killed in the beginning of every horror movie but that is more sad than anything else, if you can predict who is going to get it by thier race. After that the Dumb permiscuious blond is going to trip over something that is not there and the killer will close in on her even though she has been sprinting the whole time and the killer was just causally walking, but some how he ends up right behind her anyway. Things like that are not entertaining because they are pridectable. Adding variety and diversity to make things less bland and predictable makes things more interesting, plain and simple.

@Marshal Victory

said:

An i aruge still a waste of a great actor on a side role.Also since your in the "Buisness" can you explain to me why some hollywood papers claim LF has crossed racial dvides by playing a black cowboy?Are they so inwraped in thier own hollywood histroy they truely do not know actualy history?Cause since i was a kid i knew their was cowboys off various races.Maybe they never watched any pbs in the 80s?

Last point .Part about the kids being disapoiinted when they seen the race change .That does prove my point.It causes needless confusion/disapointment..Tho it begs the quesiton if it realy doesnt matter why they were disapointed at all?.d say it destroys the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief .Not that one race couldnt be x of that one role But that role changes race from x to y to z.

How is a Great Actor, Acting, ever a waste???

About the cowboy thing, There are certain things set up in this country that exempts certain parts of history from the history books that are studied in middle school, to high school, to college. Basically the history we are taught is very European focused and there is not much empases for focusing on the history and accomplishments of anyone else unless they get a special month. Ala Black history month or Asian history month. I am not surprised people do not know there were black cowboys, Or that there were castles in Africa which were the basis for castles built in Europe, or that African people had been traveling to America and back looong before Christopher Columbus. Or that California is named after a fictional story written by a Spanish writer about a Black Amazonian Queen called Califia, or that Jesus, Mary Magdalen and various other Christian symbols used to be drawn,sculpted, and painted as Black people by European artists up until a certain time period(If you Check out the Pope's code of arms you will see a black man's face on the upper left side http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_coat_of_arms ).

Also, about the kids loving Catwoman. In the long run them finding out she was not black in the comics does not matter because it did not put them off of the character. Your point was about people being put off because of the changes, which did not happen in this case. I would say the race change made them even more interested in the character as one of the girls was happy to find out that there were more female comicbook characters, even black ones, outside of Supergirl.

12 years ago

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Edited By Marshal Victory

@Osiris1428 said:

                    @Marshal Victory: Ummm....your response to that video I posted...please edit it and tidy that up please. It makes my eyes bleed to read it, and I cannot understand what are you are saying.

Sorry sick today an it may have shown in my post.Ill try again tomorow when feeling better.Im bad for run on senteces, An poor spelling /english usage.Thanks for at least being intrested in what i said enuff to ask for clarification. bit dyslexic to at times so spell checkers dont always work for me. Because ill see it as the word i want even when its wrong.

12 years ago

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Edited By Osiris1428

@Marshal Victory said:

@Osiris1428 said:

                    @Marshal Victory: Ummm....your response to that video I posted...please edit it and tidy that up please. It makes my eyes bleed to read it, and I cannot understand what you are saying.




Sorry sick today an it may have shown in my post.Ill try again tomorow when feeling better.Im bad for run on senteces, An poor spelling /english usage.Thanks for at least being intrested in what i said enuff to ask for clarification. bit dyslexic to at times so spell checkers dont always work for me. Because ill see it as the word i want even when its wrong.

That's cool. I edited my post twice and it still has grammatical errors,lol.

12 years ago

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Edited By Marshal Victory

@Batmanclone152:
Again sorry about the spelling as stated in another post bit dyslexic, add to that 8th grade spelling an 10th grade english usage its been a fun 40 years let me tell ya. Sides im ill atm. Course thats more offten than not any more. But enuff about my troubles .

An ya im not big fan of grammer nazis my self .Kinda imagine them with black hugo boss outfits an typeing on a black letterless das keyboard.

Great actor on a side role that doesnt matter is a waste.When theirs other characters he could have played.As mentioned before he would be awsome as Steel.Now at least we can have a decent conversation with out name calling.For that im thankful.

Its odd for the most part on this discussion on this board an others its been You have to like this, you have to agree its good or your a racist.Its comeing from the diveristy crowd that one cant have a difrent opion.Seems ironic to me a bit.

But for the most part i think we could agree more than disagree. By the way when you put a link in text its doesnt make a hotlink to the page .wonder why?But your point about changeing other aspects but not race is bit wrong. People didnt like wolverine being that tall.An yes some canadians didnt like the actor not being from canada.Its not just race it could be a sex change of a role to.

12 years ago

keith71_98

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Edited By keith71_98

LOVE this casting. Fishburne is fantastic.

12 years ago

The_Martian

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Edited By The_Martian

I'm sure Fishburne can play the role very well. I have nothing against his acting, but he doesn't fit the part. How upset would people have been in Rhode was made into a white guy because the actor could play the part well? It doesn't fit. The character was a black character and it wouldn't have been right. There was already a small uproar when Green Lantern was cast as a white guy because Green Lantern "Fans" thought the only Green Lantern was John Stewart.

12 years ago

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Edited By Batmanclone152

@Marshal Victory said:

Great actor on a side role that doesnt matter is a waste.When theirs other characters he could have played.

A great Actor can bring something to a side character role. I can't believe you would said say something like that after bringing up the tv show Human Target and not corilate that with how awesome Chi McBride is in a side character role.

@Marshal Victory said:

As mentioned before he would be awsome as Steel.

What? LOL

Nothing about LF says Steel at all. He is to old, not that super tall and not in that great of shape. The only thing he has in common with steel is that they are both black. He has more in common with Perry White then he does Steel roflmao.

@Marshal Victory said:

Its odd for the most part on this discussion on this board an others its been You have to like this, you have to agree its good or your a racist.Its comeing from the diveristy crowd that one cant have a difrent opion.Seems ironic to me a bit.

I think it's more the fact that every time a black character shows up in any medium who is not in a traditional role there is always constant opposition to it and there is usually a racially charged reason behind it. And then when you press these people about it they never have any good reason for being opposed to it, they just don't like it just because. Its funny that the people who keep bringing up race and have a problem with it are the most offended when others want to talk about it. I mean it never fails, If a Black character shows up as the main character in a Video game people cry about that, but they can't give you a clear reason why it upsets them. If to many black superheroes show up in a comicbook people cry about that, but they can't give you a good reason as to why it bothers them. If Black characters are the main characters in a tv show people don't watch it..... but they can't give you a good reason as to why.

Which leaves people to put together the puzzle peaces themselves. And it is not hard to figure out the common factor or why they would be opposed. Anyone who can't figure that out has very poor deduction skills.

@Marshal Victory said:

People didnt like wolverine being that tall.An yes some canadians didnt like the actor not being from canada.Its not just race it could be a sex change of a role to.

There was not nearly enough opposition to those things as say, Kingpin being played by a Black man in the daredevil movie. Nor was there as much opposition as when Heimdal was going to be played by a Black man in the Thor movie. You see the trend here?

Those were small little gripes people had that did not catch on to much and people got over it. However people still Blame The casting of a Black man,to this day, as the whole reason why the dardevil movie sucked(which is far from the truth, Michal Clark Duncan was probably the only good thing about that movie).

@Nobody said:

How upset would people have been in Rhode was made into a white guy because the actor could play the part well? It doesn't fit. The character was a black character and it wouldn't have been right.

Again you are trying to compare two things that don't correlate. A white side character vs a Black Superhero character. There are More white Side characters than there are Black Superheros. Heck there are more White Superheroes than Black ones. I could understand if you would have said Replacing Perry White with a Black Actor is like Replacing Terry Fitzgerald in the Spawn Movie with a white actor (which actually happened... and oddly enough there was no opposition to that...hmmmm I wonder why). Stop trying to compare two things that don't corrilate. The change of one of 900 Billion white characters does not corilate to the change of 1 of the only 3 Black characters there are, plain and simple.

@Nobody said:

There was already a small uproar when Green Lantern was cast as a white guy because Green Lantern "Fans" thought the only Green Lantern was John Stewart.

As there should have been. The way Dwayne Mcduffie wrote John Stewart in the Justice leauge Cartoon put Hal Jordan to shame. That Diversity actually made people pay attention to DC who never really paid any attention to characters outside of Batman,Superman, and WonderWoman (myself included because I am a Marvel Fan boy). DC should have followed that up with a Movie about John Stewart because lets face it, in a Sea of Summer movies about Hetero Male Caucasian superheros, That movie would have stood out like a Sore thumb and gotten a lot more attention then it actually did. DC seriously needs to break the line of Batman and Superman stuff with something different and Green Lantern would have been a perfect choice. Also a Wonder Woman movie.

12 years ago

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Edited By Marshal Victory

@Batmanclone152:
OK no matter how much you belittle Chi McBride's role in the human target, the fact is in the 1st season he was the buesness parter to Chance . Maybe reading again how he got the role an made it his http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=24698 would help?He was one the core trio that made the show work.He was the center of much of the shows comedy.An his race didnt matter .It wasnt the central part of any episode that i recall.

@Batmanclone152 said "Nothing about LF says Steel at all"

Ohh i get it now. Keeping wihat the source material doesnt matter.. specialy with race. But age has to match!? i reply back with a LOL at your coment.

An yeah people did have a problem with the Hemidale casting .Just because you didnt see it or rember it doesnt mean it didnt happen.Hell their was people who still belive in the Norse panthon as a religon .An they took offence.

The spawn example as i stated in another post is a example of something i didnt like. An yes their was people who didnt like it that a role was "whitewashed". But back when that movie came out you didnt have the internet as you do today. You sure didnt have Smart phones . an social media was the bs cnn said.

Maybe you can step back a sec an look at what your saying. Basicly your saying theirs not enuff of this race over that race.When the ideal is no one cares about race.Maybe some dreams will never be relized . My heroes are determined by their actions.Not their race.

also from http://www.newsarama.com/comics/marz-lobdell-racism-politics-social-media-110808.html

" Scott Lobdell: Without getting into the tit for tat of it all, I can tell you it started for me because I've developed such a low tolerance for the use of the word "racism." I think we are quickly coming to a time where the word is going to be mean nothing, or — even more frightening — it is going to be able to be used to describe anything.

Lets use the idea of Laurence Fishburne in the role of Perry White. Personally, I think he is an awe-inspiring choice — great actor, one of those actors that makes a movie better just by being in it! Though I can see where some people might say "Hmm. The part of Perry has always been played by a white actor and now he is being portrayed as a non-white actor. I am more comfortable with what I am used to." And yes, there are certainly extremely intolerant people in the world who hate the fact that a black actor is playing a traditionally white part — and, yes, certainly those people fall into the realm or what most of us can agree are "racists.What I find annoying, however, is the broad-brush approach to the term "racism." Unless you think Laurence as Perry is the most awesome casting in the annals of casting, suddenly you are racist. It is so sad, to me, that we've come to a point in a society where every time someone has an opinion other than our own, we feel it is OK to call them a racist or a homophobe or a misogynist. I think it is sad because clearly there are a lot of haters out there, and we need to be able to identify them and hope to educate them... and when you start calling everyone who doesn't agree with everything a racist or what-not, then it cheapens the power of the word."

He gets it .An said it better than i could.

12 years ago

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Edited By Marshal Victory

@Osiris1428 said:

                    @Marshal Victory said:

@Osiris1428 said:

                    @Marshal Victory: Ummm....your response to that video I posted...please edit it and tidy that up please. It makes my eyes bleed to read it, and I cannot understand what you are saying.




Sorry sick today an it may have shown in my post.Ill try again tomorow when feeling better.Im bad for run on senteces, An poor spelling /english usage.Thanks for at least being intrested in what i said enuff to ask for clarification. bit dyslexic to at times so spell checkers dont always work for me. Because ill see it as the word i want even when its wrong.




That's cool. I edited my post twice and it still has grammatical errors,lol.

Ok gona try to keep it short.

The vid. i hope the guy doing it is acting an trying to joke. Because half way threw the video he finaly admited the hispanic side of the new ultamate spiderman.An it was "A bit to much" an "thats trying to hard" he said.So even he thinks it was done for publicity an not story driven. 1st half seemed as if he was trying to rub it in some ones face or something?As wel as name calling .

Also he points out the harvy dent race changes inthe batman movies an got upset ( even if jokeing ) that it was changed back.His quesiton at the end is intresting because he talks of a white to black transition but he wants white character replaced.

Dont realy care if ultamte spider man ( a new character) is biracial etc.What i do care is that the way marvel handled it it came off real bad.The news being broke wasnt about the story but the characters race.They made it into a problem for publicity about race. Not the same thing as takeing a character an doing a race change.Ultamte spiderman is a new character . Not a character thats been aroudn for 70 years.

Theirs other parts of the vid that made me laugh but not in the way the guy wanted.

http://tytempletonart.wordpress.com/2011/08/06/ultimate-spider-man-bun-toons-yay/ i just thought you might like the cartoon an its atempted irony.But even Peter David doesnt understand people in the spider man movies wanted peter parker web shooters. not his spiderman 2099 characters organic ones because .. parker doesnt have those in the comics.The cartoonist misses the point that some of the character he points at were not to replace but be along side their patterned hero. Most had their own series .An most ddint cut it .Or they would have a series now.

Kinda like ultamte spidermans sales have sucked so parker dies to be replaced.Sorry for spelling mistakes etc.Theirs more i could point to but getn tired again so sleep is more important than poorly spelled post by me .

12 years ago

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Edited By Batmanclone152

@Marshal Victory said:

OK no matter how much you belittle Chi McBride's role in the human target, the fact is in the 1st season he was the buesness parter to Chance . Maybe reading again how he got the role an made it his http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=24698 would help?He was one the core trio that made the show work.He was the center of much of the shows comedy.An his race didnt matter .It wasnt the central part of any episode that i recall.

WOW!!!
I am so glad you posted that link, that link basically cosigns everything I have been saying so far. You have just basically validated my argument 10 fold. : )

Exert from the link:
"Actually, when I first read the script, there was nothing really in there for me. Winston was an older British guy and I just got the impression that he was a guy who sits in an office. I called my agent after I read the script and said that there was nothing in it for me, but if somebody handled it right, it could be a pretty good TV show. It had a lot of action, a lot of comedy."

What? so The Character of Winston was an old white Britsh man? And they cast a Good Black actor in the role and he brought something great to it which made the show turn out even better? Hmmm.... this sounds very familiar to something else but I can't quite put my finger on it.... hmmmm

Anyway yes, the character is still the Black best friend no matter how you try to slice it. I mean seriously, do you think anyone (besides me) would watch the show if Chancewas not the Hetero white male Hero? No

@Marshal Victory said:

Ohh i get it now. Keeping wihat the source material doesnt matter.. specialy with race. But age has to match!? i reply back with a LOL at your coment.

Yes, I know you want to throw the baby out with the bath water because of some odd Bias you have. But the change can't just be anything, it has to make sense. You see if the casting calls for an older overweight Caucasian man, and they Cast an older overweight African American man, that is a small change that still fits the character description and does not change the way the character will be conveyed in any way. However if the script call for a young,tall,muscular African American man with a square jaw who looks very athletic, and they cast an older overweight man of any race with a round face and a jiggly belly. Well that is to big of a change to correctly convey the character at hand.

Crazy, I know.

@Marshal Victory said:

The spawn example as i stated in another post is a example of something i didnt like. An yes their was people who didnt like it that a role was "whitewashed". But back when that movie came out you didnt have the internet as you do today. You sure didnt have Smart phones . an social media was the bs cnn said.

Bull, it does not matter when the movie came out because whenever these types of discussions are brought up, NONE of the examples of characters being whitewashed are ever brought up. You will see people talking about Kingpin in the daredevil movie and things like that, but people rarely bring up the white wash examples because they do not have a problem with them, truth be told. People have ample opportunity to voice their dislike about it now, but they never mention it. But you will hear about the Dislike for Michal Clark Dunken as Kingpin in Daredevil to this day.

The fact of the matter is that people are so used to having characters be white washed that it does not bother them in the least. However the other way around sticks out and gets your attention a bit more.

No complaints about(or very few) about Goku being white in the Dragonball movie, No complaints about Chunli being only half chinese in the Chunli movie (which must have had the same writers as the catwoman film). There was a bit of a tiff about most of the characters in the Last airbender being cast a white, but that was mostly from the Asian community. No one had a problem with Juan "Johnnie" Rico being white in the Starship Troopers movies. No one had a Problem with the full cast of the movie 21 being white when the movie was based off a real life story about Asian kids. No one said they were not going to go see Wanted just because Angalina Jolie (a white woman) was cast in the role of Fox (a black woman in the comics). When the the hideously scarred black teacher Reuben St. Clair in the book pay it forward becomes hideously scarred white teacher Eugene Simonet (played by Kevin Spacey) In the movie, no one had a problem.

Where are these complaints in this discussion? this is what I mean. It is so very one sided it is hard to take serious. And then people will try to correlate the argument with changing the minority Main character in another story. Which like I have said before, makes no sense.

@Marshal Victory said:

Maybe you can step back a sec an look at what your saying. Basicly your saying theirs not enuff of this race over that race.When the ideal is no one cares about race.Maybe some dreams will never be relized . My heroes are determined by their actions.Not their race.

Yes that is the Ideal, but sadly that is not our Reality.

12 years ago

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Edited By Osiris1428

@Marshal Victory said:
@Osiris1428 said:

Think youll enjoy this comic http://tytempletonart.wordpress.com/2011/08/06/ultimate-spider-man-bun-toons-yay/ an maybe get the irony hes trying to bring to this. But missing the point. as badly as
that vid or Peter davild in the forums..
"
Peter David | August 6, 2011 at 3:48 PM | Reply
Yeah, I have to say, as the creator of a half-Latino Spider-Man with organic web shooters (Miguel O'Hara), neither of which drew anything beyond a “Wow, that’s cool!” response when Rick and I first did it, it’s been kind of a laugh for me to watch fans go bugnuts crazy over organic webshooters in the movie and a half-Latino Spider-Man in the Ultimate titles.
PAD"

He was talking about Spider-Man 2099 in the first part of his post, and comparing how outraged some fans were about the organic web shooting in the Spider-Man films, and how all this attention is going to Miles Morales, when he created a hispanic super hero years ago without this much fanfare.

Bottom line, that vid has some sarcastic wit to it. It was not meant to be mean spirited in anyway. We need to remember another important fact in comics: NEW. CHARACTERS. DO. NOT. SALE. I think the last comic book character to really take off was Wolverine, and he was introduced in the 70's in an issue of Hulk. No one knew he would take off like that. And since then, he has been pushed and pushed. Wolverine is not quite up there in the realm of popular culture like say, Superman or Batman, but he is right underneath Spider-Man.

Introducing a new character within an established role is nothing new to comics, but people seem to be getting their panties in a bunch when a minority character does it, and don't even seem to be aware of how their reaction is quite disproportionate to the situation. Nothing is new under the sun. The details might be a little different, but nothing is new.

12 years ago

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@Batmanclone152:
"WOW!!!
I am so glad you posted that link, that link basically cosigns everything I have been saying so far. You have just basically validated my argument 10 fold. : )

Exert from the link:
"Actually, when I first read the script, there was nothing really in there for me. Winston was an older British guy and I just got the impression that he was a guy who sits in an office. I called my agent after I read the script and said that there was nothing in it for me, but if somebody handled it right, it could be a pretty good TV show. It had a lot of action, a lot of comedy."

What? so The Character of Winston was an old white Britsh man? And they cast a Good Black actor in the role and he brought something great to it which made the show turn out even better? Hmmm.... this sounds very familiar to something else but I can't quite put my finger on it.... hmmmm "

Actualy no your the one who said he was a white british guy . You even bolded the "Winston was an older British guy " in the quote.He didnt say white. You interjected that..Theirs all kinds of difrent races that are britsh. Not such a enlightend veiw their.Only thing proven so far is your opion doesnt make reality .As well as when you think of british you think white people.

An again just because you didnt hear of it ,Doesnt mean it never happend.Hell yes people were upset with dragon ball z movie.They in mass hate the idea if Akira remake with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keanu_Reeves as the lead. Not all anime is the case tho, for a strict asian cast.I would argue in some its actualy hard to say who is what race. But their is/was petions to keep the cast asian in Akira. http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/ruben/news/?a=32528 an your saying it was mostly asian people complaing...Thats not a anime site..But in your wolrd british people are only white to so... WoW!!! indeed.

12 years ago

The_Martian

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@Batmanclone152 said:

@Nobody said:
How upset would people have been in Rhode was made into a white guy because the actor could play the part well? It doesn't fit. The character was a black character and it wouldn't have been right.
Again you are trying to compare two things that don't correlate. A white side character vs a Black Superhero character. There are More white Side characters than there are Black Superheros. Heck there are more White Superheroes than Black ones. I could understand if you would have said Replacing Perry White with a Black Actor is like Replacing Terry Fitzgerald in the Spawn Movie with a white actor (which actually happened... and oddly enough there was no opposition to that...hmmmm I wonder why). Stop trying to compare two things that don't corrilate. The change of one of 900 Billion white characters does not corilate to the change of 1 of the only 3 Black characters there are, plain and simple.

I don't care about the amount of black characters, white characters, or any other race. It would have been the same thing if they had a Latino playing the role of an Asian person. It doesn't fit. Period. A character was design one way, why change them? Now if it had a purpose story wise or development. But I can guarantee Perry White will have no character development. He'll yell at Lois that we need a scoop on Superman, then next scene.

@Batmanclone152 said:

@Nobody said:
There was already a small uproar when Green Lantern was cast as a white guy because Green Lantern "Fans" thought the only Green Lantern was John Stewart.
As there should have been. The way Dwayne Mcduffie wrote John Stewart in the Justice leauge Cartoon put Hal Jordan to shame. That Diversity actually made people pay attention to DC who never really paid any attention to characters outside of Batman,Superman, and WonderWoman (myself included because I am a Marvel Fan boy). DC should have followed that up with a Movie about John Stewart because lets face it, in a Sea of Summer movies about Hetero Male Caucasian superheros, That movie would have stood out like a Sore thumb and gotten a lot more attention then it actually did. DC seriously needs to break the line of Batman and Superman stuff with something different and Green Lantern would have been a perfect choice. Also a Wonder Woman movie.

The Justice League cartoon wasn't replacing Hal Jordan as the original Green Lantern though. He still appeared on the show, just not a founding member of the Justice League. It wouldn't make sense to have like the third or fourth Lantern from Earth to have the original origins movie. I would love to see him appear in a Green Lantern sequel though.

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@Osiris1428:
We got some things to agree on i think.Tho i would say the popularity of the biger characters would depend on where you live.Wolveirne was in my neck of the woods mroe popular than any of the biger characters.Comic book stores customers id see more Wolverine shirts more often than not.This was way way before x men movie to.Fandom i think can be regional.

ill take your word that the vid was not meant to be mean spirited.I cant argue that. Actualy could be "Andre BlackNerd" is like that sexynerdgirl on you tube .A creation/ a made up character. http://marketingforhippies.com/sexy-nerd-girl/ .Thats kinda what my brother thought when he seen the vid an i hate to agree with him but i do to.

A key difrence tho .Spider man 2099 was not marketed about race.New ultimate spider man tho has been.An Sam Raimi Spider man wasnt about Peter Davids character.How Peter David kinda misses the point that parkers spider man uses shooters an not organic shooters is kinda the point.People wanted even that level of detail.Which i could argue was part of the characters weekenss as he would run out of cartiges at times an be in a bad spot because of it.

On bleeding cool forums they called it before the pick with his mask off.New characters tho i would say Hellboy seemed to break some ground in sales as a new character.Enuff to get two moives out it at least.Word is their gona kil im off.. again.Could say Kick-ass as well.Book sales were pretty good for it.But if your just talking the big two id mostly agree with you.

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@Marshal Victory said:

Actualy no your the one who said he was a white british guy . You even bolded the "Winston was an older British guy " in the quote.He didnt say white. You interjected that..Theirs all kinds of difrent races that are britsh. Not such a enlightend veiw their.Only thing proven so far is your opion doesnt make reality .As well as when you think of british you think white people.

So do you honestly think they were looking to cast an older black British man, and then settled for a black American man with no British accent instead?

lol come on.......

@Marshal Victory said:

An again just because you didnt hear of it ,Doesnt mean it never happend.Hell yes people were upset with dragon ball z movie.They in mass hate the idea if Akira remake with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keanu_Reeves as the lead. Not all anime is the case tho, for a strict asian cast.I would argue in some its actualy hard to say who is what race. But their is/was petions to keep the cast asian in Akira. http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/ruben/news/?a=32528 an your saying it was mostly asian people complaing...Thats not a anime site..But in your wolrd british people are only white to so... WoW!!! indeed.

People were more angry that the movie was going to suck rather than Goku being cast as white, plain and simple.

And about the Akira thing.... did you actually read any of the comments on that page? Most of the comments are just like this very discussion we are having here. A bunch of people not understanding why it is not ok to white wash nonwhite characters and saying they would still see the movie if the cast was white.

@Nobody said:

I don't care about the amount of black characters, white characters, or any other race.

I know you don't, which is why it is hard to take any of your argument seriously.

@Nobody said:

The Justice League cartoon wasn't replacing Hal Jordan as the original Green Lantern though. He still appeared on the show, just not a founding member of the Justice League. It wouldn't make sense to have like the third or fourth Lantern from Earth to have the original origins movie. I would love to see him appear in a Green Lantern sequel though.

It does not matter, Hal was not the first green Lantern ever. The movie could have been about Hal recruting John into the Green Lantern Corps and being the human Anchor for the fantastical Alien worlds. Having Hal just run into all the crazy stuff without a Human Anchor to explain everything to him just made the movie seem like a Cartoon. The movie would have been much better if John was freakiing out at all the odd Alien stuff going on around him and Hal could explain everything and what is going on while using his dry sarcasm. Maybe something like Agent K and Agent J from Men in Black.

Also the casting for Hal was not as good as it should have been.

12 years ago

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@Batmanclone152 said:

@Nobody said:
I don't care about the amount of black characters, white characters, or any other race.
I know you don't, which is why it is hard to take any of your argument seriously.

Because I don't think how many of a certain race matter, but actually care about a well told story?

@Batmanclone152 said:

@Nobody said:
The Justice League cartoon wasn't replacing Hal Jordan as the original Green Lantern though. He still appeared on the show, just not a founding member of the Justice League. It wouldn't make sense to have like the third or fourth Lantern from Earth to have the original origins movie. I would love to see him appear in a Green Lantern sequel though.
It does not matter, Hal was not the first green Lantern ever. The movie could have been about Hal recruting John into the Green Lantern Corps and being the human Anchor for the fantastical Alien worlds. Having Hal just run into all the crazy stuff without a Human Anchor to explain everything to him just made the movie seem like a Cartoon. The movie would have been much better if John was freakiing out at all the odd Alien stuff going on around him and Hal could explain everything and what is going on while using his dry sarcasm. Maybe something like Agent K and Agent J from Men in Black. Also the casting for Hal was not as good as it should have been.

Hal is the first Green Lantern from Earth. I'm not counting Alan Scott who is not a member of the Green Lantern Corps. This movie was supposed to be introduction of the Green Lantern Corps to the planet Earth. Just like all origin movies are. John can easily appear in the second one, and I'd be just fine with that.

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@Batmanclone152:
Yeah an again you belittle Chi McBride's role, an now his acting skills.Here maybe a refresher of what hes apeared in may help http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_McBride Starting to wonder other than the age-ist things you have said, if thiers not more to this. Why when shown diveristy you say thier is none.London is in 2007 was 69% white .. also 10.6% black so ya it coulda been a black british guy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London . See i watch shows out side the crapy U.S. media .So i dont have your prejudice about that.

What might help ya is geting your news from more than one source.The more you know ! :)

I disagree with you on the Matrix if we had Will Smith acting skills from The Pursuit of Happyness, it woulda worked. If we had Fresh Prince of Bel-Air Will Smith.. not so much.But then again the characters i like their skin color doesnt matter to me.Their actions is why im drawn to the character.Where as you want x of this race over y of that race.

Note as well, your posts have given me an my brother a few laughs.When you say theirs no one like this. Then when proved their is your responce. shoulda just shortend it a bit to "nuh uh". An how you said "that was mostly from the Asian community" like you know the race of all anime fans,As well as the % of those who hate white washing or race changing.So far your bating 0 for 2 their.Almost sounds as if your just discarding them because of their race. I used that link ,an not anime sites becasue it wasnt a anime site.Oh well point missed it happens.

Like how when Nobody says to you "I don't care about the amount of black characters, white characters, or any other race", a simple non bigoted ,non racial view.You respond "I know you don't, which is why it is hard to take any of your argument seriously." That does speek to where your comeing from."Wow lol" indeed.

You may well be one of the few i have talked to, who realy belives if you dont hear a tree fall in the forest .. it doesnt happen. Cause your realy coming off that way.With all the i dont rember people griping about x race change before. Sir (guessing) your missing the point. Needless change does not help any one.It does not right past wrongs.Not caring about a characters race is actualy not racist.Wanting source material honored is not racist.Some of your past coments .. right to the line.The benefit of doubt has been given to you.Shame you dont give it to others tho.

But hey! Your welcome to your own opion.No matter how it looks.So far its not enightend (assume the race of others/assume their racist )but looks more elitist (dismissing those who disagree with you as not able to form serious opions) .But im known to be wrong on any day of the week that ends in y to. No ones perfect.It will be ok.

By the way Laurence John Fishburne III born July 30, 1961 ( 1961-07-30) (age 50) isnt he bit young to be Perry White?I mean age matters to you so much it seems.

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@Nobody said:

Because I don't think how many of a certain race matter, but actually care about a well told story?

Because of your insensitivity to that side of the argument. If you can easily dismiss a reason for something without even taking it into consideration, then there is really no reason to discuss anything with a person like that. I can see why a person would not care to continue a conversation on that level.

And who is to say that changing the character's race is going to Destroy and obliterate the story? lol

As if the people who mention the ratio of White to Black characters or White to Asian characters some how don't care about story at all. lol

@Nobody said:

Hal is the first Green Lantern from Earth.

But he was not the first Green Lantern of the Green Lantern corps. There were many,many,many Alien Green Lanterns before him, is what I am getting at. Heck, a movie about an Alien Green Lantern probably would have been more interesting.

@Marshal Victory said:

@Batmanclone152:
Yeah an again you belittle Chi McBride's role, an now his acting skills.Here maybe a refresher of what hes apeared in may help http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_McBride Starting to wonder other than the age-ist things you have said, if thiers not more to this. Why when shown diveristy you say thier is none.London is in 2007 was 69% white .. also 10.6% black so ya it coulda been a black british guy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London . See i watch shows out side the crapy U.S. media .So i dont have your prejudice about that.

What are you talking about? I like Chi Mcbride. And I watch Human Target, but that does not change the fact that he is still playing the black best friend.

There is no prejudice about anything. Britain's white population still outweighs their minority population so I don't understand why you would even waste your time posting that statistic. You again just proved me right. There is no bias here, just the truth. See I think the problem we are having here is that you are what I like to call a wishist, where as I am a realist.

You constantly say " well it could be this or it should be that" and then I say "yes but it is this and it is that" and then you say again "well it should be this way and it could be this way". We are dealing with reality, and instead of wishing or hoping for things to be one way, we are going to have to deal with things the way they are. When people say a British person, A black person with a British accent is not what pops into people's minds. When people say a person from china, a black man who was born and raised in china does not pop into people's heads. When people say an African person, Charlize Theron is not what pops into people's heads.

@Marshal Victory said:

I disagree with you on the Matrix if we had Will Smith acting skills from The Pursuit of Happyness, it woulda worked. If we had Fresh Prince of Bel-Air Will Smith.. not so much.

Nope, the movie would have flopped. There needed to be a Hetero white male protagonist for the audience to relate to. This is most likely the reason DC went with the Hal Jordan green lantern in the movie instead of the John Stewart Green lantern that everyone outside of comic book fans knew and loved.

@Marshal Victory said:

Note as well, your posts have given me an my brother a few laughs.

ok

@Marshal Victory said:

When you say theirs no one like this. Then when proved their is your responce. shoulda just shortend it a bit to "nuh uh". An how you said "that was mostly from the Asian community" like you know the race of all anime fans,As well as the % of those who hate white washing or race changing.So far your bating 0 for 2 their.Almost sounds as if your just discarding them because of their race. I used that link ,an not anime sites becasue it wasnt a anime site.Oh well point missed it happens.

Can you re-word all of that? I have no idea what you are trying to say here. I said it was mostly from the Asian community because I ran into various videos on youtube at the time and message boards of people of Asian decent complaining about it. Anyone who was not Asian was more angry at the fact that the storyline to the movie sucked. And again, where are the complaints about the various white washing changes here in this discussion?

@Marshal Victory said:

Like how when Nobody says to you "I don't care about the amount of black characters, white characters, or any other race", a simple non bigoted ,non racial view.You respond "I know you don't, which is why it is hard to take any of your argument seriously." That does speek to where your comeing from."Wow lol" indeed. You may well be one of the few i have talked to, who realy belives if you dont hear a tree fall in the forest .. it doesnt happen. Cause your realy coming off that way.With all the i dont rember people griping about x race change before.

***Sigh*** I wish you would get to your point....
Your going to type out a new york best selling novel before you get to the point your trying to make. lol

Nobody's comment was insensitive to the point at hand. Much like some one who says that people who talk about racism are in fact keeping it going. And if they stopped talking about it, it would just go away. It's logic like that which makes their arguments hard to take seriously.

@Marshal Victory said:

Sir (guessing) your missing the point. Needless change does not right past wrongs.

***Sigh*** I have never said anything of the sort, you are going off on a tangent now.

@Marshal Victory said:

Not caring about a characters race is actualy not racist.Wanting source material honored is not racist.Some of your past coments .. right to the line.

Can you quote where I have said these things? or are you still on that tangent?

@Marshal Victory said:

By the way Laurence John Fishburne III born July 30, 1961 ( 1961-07-30) (age 50) isnt he bit young to be Perry White?I mean age matters to you so much it seems.

So......... 50 is young now?

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@Batmanclone152:
I said a bit young. Perry always struck me to be 55ish or better. As you get older what apears young to you will change.An i ment in years .

Your claim to be a realist doesnt hold up.No one said if you stop talking about racism it will go away.Because it never will go away.Ever.People who push race as a issue will keep it alive.Ya i do wish the people would act human.Reality is most will not.

Odds are their will be a shot of him at the desk .Some one new comes up reads the name an looks at him so he can say. "im aware of the irony" .Which would actualy be kinda funny an cool on sevrial levels.

Your opion ( an rember its

JUST

your opion) that nero had to be white shows your own bias.Well bias may not be the best word prejudice fits i think.An you think the black english are just black people with english acent?You know what pops in peoples minds when they think english?Mind read much?

Here http://www.bleedingcool.com/forums/showthread.php?45992-London-Rioters-Burn-Down-Stock-Centre-Of-Several-Independent-Film-Distributors-UPDATED-x-5 read abit from people in england .Some of which are black.Gasp! I can just guess the names they would call you for assuming that a britan would be white.Serious note tho read it youll learn more of whats going on .Way more than what the U.S.media has said.

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@Batmanclone152:
Oh one more thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Marcell

Joseph Marcell (born 18 August 1948) is a St. Lucian-born British actor, best known for his work as Geoffrey the English butler on the NBC sitcom The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.

So um even crapy us tv has shown a black british actor before .Oh my.

Whats this? On the human target you did have a black british guy!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennie_James
Lennie James (born 11 October 1965) is an English actor and playwright.
He played Baptiste just fyi.

Ya so that whole assume british is white deal.. ya what they would call you i asure you is not a door knob.But me, im still givieng you the benifit of the doubt.

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@Marshal Victory said:

@Batmanclone152:
I said a bit young. Perry always struck me to be 55ish or better. As you get older what apears young to you will change.An i ment in years .

And 55 is much, MUCH! older than 50....

@Marshal Victory said:

Your claim to be a realist doesnt hold up.No one said if you stop talking about racism it will go away.

No, I said it is a similar argument to the "I don't care about race at all even though everything may be in one race's favor, we should not focus on race at all because then it will just go away even though everything is in one race's favor!"

Ignoring the fact that people have been saying that for years and it has not happened yet.

It is a very insensitive argument.

@Marshal Victory said:

your opion) that nero had to be white shows your own bias.Well bias may not be the best word prejudice fits i think.

So what is your point?

Are you saying I am racist? and if so, racist against what exactly?

@Marshal Victory said:

An you think the black english are just black people with english acent?

Yes

What else would they be, Aliens?

@Marshal Victory said:

Here http://www.bleedingcool.com/forums/showthread.php?45992-London-Rioters-Burn-Down-Stock-Centre-Of-Several-Independent-Film-Distributors-UPDATED-x-5 read abit from people in england .Some of which are black.Gasp! I can just guess the names they would call you for assuming that a britan would be white.Serious note tho read it youll learn more of whats going on .Way more than what the U.S.media has said.

So what is your point here?

Your going off on an odd tangent again. You did not refute any of my points and now you are bringing up something about the London riots to say what exactly?

If your point is supposed to be that there are black British people. I have never said there were not, and if that is in fact your argument now instead of trying to refute any of my points than I guess I have won this argument. LOL

Flawless Victory!!!

12 years ago