JUSTICE LEAGUE #12: Superman and Wonder Woman Hook Up

@Jonny_Anonymoussaid:

@Lvengersaid:

@scottkennard92 said:

@Jonny_Anonymous: Aw give it a chance it's about time supes found someone to love in the new 52.

It should be a new love interest. Not Diana. They're better as close friends not as lovers.

Exactly! This is totally unoriginal and clichéd

Really cliched would mean that this is something that has been done a thousands(like louis clark).

While it is not exactly original (Waid and Ross can attest to that) should you really go crying IT"S TEH WURST THING EVA!!!11!!! before the issue comes out?

@Lvenger: That was in the previous continuity, though. These are slightly different variations of the characters and things've changed. Those changes and how they affect Kal and Diana's relationship are worth exploring, IMHO.

meh, its still just a cover. I still rather see Batman and Diana

@Maybeland said:

@Jonny_Anonymoussaid:

@Lvengersaid:

@scottkennard92 said:

@Jonny_Anonymous: Aw give it a chance it's about time supes found someone to love in the new 52.

It should be a new love interest. Not Diana. They're better as close friends not as lovers.

Exactly! This is totally unoriginal and clichéd

Really cliched would mean that this is something that has been done a thousands(like lois clark).

Agreed. Honestly, I think I just may be relieved that Clark isn't going to be with Lois, anymore. And I'm not really sure what the big deal is getting WW and Supes together for a bit. If it works out, it works out. If it doesn't, it doesn't. In any event, maybe Clark being taken off the market may get Lois to realize what she's missing out on and treat him with a bit more respect.

@RazzaTazz said:

Imagine if Wonder Woman was replaced by Catwoman instead, it would make no sense right? The two would have no chemistry and no publication history to support that development. The problem with this development is the same, that it runs completely against everything that Wonder Woman is about and what her publication history has developed for her. This is also complete fan service to Superman fans who want him to be romantically involved with all the leading ladies of DC.

As a Superman fan, I agree. I never understood the love for a Superman/Wonder Woman relationship other than they have similar powers and they are the most popular male and female superheroes (or at least in Superman's case was the most popular male superhero, but you'll see that once Batman became the most popular he also started being shipped with WW).

@Jonny_Anonymoussaid:

@Lvengersaid:

@scottkennard92 said:

@Jonny_Anonymous: Aw give it a chance it's about time supes found someone to love in the new 52.

It should be a new love interest. Not Diana. They're better as close friends not as lovers.

Exactly! This is totally unoriginal and clichéd

Really cliched would mean that this is something that has been done a thousands(like louis clark).

While it is not exactly original (Waid and Ross can attest to that) should you really go crying IT"S TEH WURST THING EVA!!!11!!! before the issue comes out?

Bruce x Diana FTW

@sweetesttoaster: They didn't want to build the relationship further in the JLA because it would ruin the trinity and Batman/WW relationship... DC is really consistant huh? I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly don't like S/WW I am more down with B/WW. But I think that Diana should be on her own, not tied to one of the two remaining members of the trinity or JL....

Intriguing.

I've never been a fan of Superman & Wonder Woman being together but after reading Kingdom Come recently it soften me up a little bit. They would be the ultimate couple but it's not going to last. Not because I think they wouldn't last together but because Superman/ Clark's true love is Lois Lane. No if's, and's or but's. I don't care how long comic book writers try to prolong it, it's going to happen. So, People chill! It's not going to last long!!

Having Batman & Wonder Woman together....I think that only worked for the Justice League Animated Series show. I'm sorry but I just can't really see it in the comics. Batman being with Catwoman just makes more sense. They are both messed up in the head.lol

I honestly wish to see Wonder Woman with Steve Trever. I think if they worked on his character and made him into a good enough character then it definitely would work. I really liked him in the Wonder Woman animated movie!

@Cooke76: The thing is this is out of the blue. Something Razza Tazz said sums it up pretty well:

@RazzaTazz said:

Imagine if Wonder Woman was replaced by Catwoman instead, it would make no sense right? The two would have no chemistry and no publication history to support that development. The problem with this development is the same, that it runs completely against everything that Wonder Woman is about and what her publication history has developed for her. This is also complete fan service to Superman fans who want him to be romantically involved with all the leading ladies of DC.

@Maybeland: Gee DC hitching their premier male superhero and premier female superhero together? How uncliched and unoriginal is that?

I am interested in seeing how this WW/Superman relationship will play out, because every writer can do things differently, and can do things that cause us to consider things that might not have worked in the past will work now. This though, I do not see as lasting very long, but I do see it as an understandable path for both characters to take. I think that both characters are a very vulnerable points in their lives, so seeking companionship in one another sounds like a very "human" thing to do. In time though, their differences will override their relationship, and they will be forced to split.

It's either Batman or GTFO.

Been there... Saw that...

Next topic please.

@JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:

@RazzaTazz said:

Imagine if Wonder Woman was replaced by Catwoman instead, it would make no sense right? The two would have no chemistry and no publication history to support that development. The problem with this development is the same, that it runs completely against everything that Wonder Woman is about and what her publication history has developed for her. This is also complete fan service to Superman fans who want him to be romantically involved with all the leading ladies of DC.

As a Superman fan, I agree. I never understood the love for a Superman/Wonder Woman relationship other than they have similar powers and they are the most popular male and female superheroes (or at least in Superman's case was the most popular male superhero, but you'll see that once Batman became the most popular he also started being shipped with WW).

By the same token, I really don't see what the appeal of Lois is. Just because of history? Honestly, I've never read anything in their history indicating that these two were soul mates or anything.

Jim Lee needs to work on his loving embraces.

It looks like Superman isn't even touching her.

makes sense. She's the only one that can survive superman..well.....finishing on or in her.

@yo_yo_fun said:

I honestly wish to see Wonder Woman with Steve Trever. I think if they worked on his character and made him into a good enough character then it definitely would work. I really liked him in the Wonder Woman animated movie!

I think Steve could work if they made him the Nick Fury of the DCU, personally. Just make him this total black ops badass who knows everything about everybody, but also gets his hands dirty with the best of 'em.

Then create someone new for Supes (not Lois!)!

@Cooke76:

http://teamclarklois.tumblr.com/post/24563661600/lois-loves-lana-loves-part-1-comics

@Lvenger said:

@Cooke76: The thing is this is out of the blue. Something Razza Tazz said sums it up pretty well:

@RazzaTazz said:

Imagine if Wonder Woman was replaced by Catwoman instead, it would make no sense right? The two would have no chemistry and no publication history to support that development. The problem with this development is the same, that it runs completely against everything that Wonder Woman is about and what her publication history has developed for her. This is also complete fan service to Superman fans who want him to be romantically involved with all the leading ladies of DC.

@Maybeland: Gee DC hitching their premier male superhero and premier female superhero together? How uncliched and unoriginal is that?

Razza's point literally makes no sense.

Superman has a history with Wonder Woman, they work together,know their secret identities, etc.

Meanwhile Lvenger makes no sense as how often has DC hitched their premier superheroes together? I've only counted 4 times in the last 70 years.

I'm fine with this. Nothing wrong with experimentation. It probably won't last anyway.

Also when did Bruce date Wonder Woman in the comics?

That's a pairing that makes no sense he can't be seen in public with her, it would totally give anyway the secret identity.

@JoseDRiveraTCR7said:

@Cooke76:

http://teamclarklois.tumblr.com/post/24563661600/lois-loves-lana-loves-part-1-comics

Wow, just when I thought I didn't think I could be more unconvinced about Lois...

@Joe_Amazing said:

Once again, the DCnU shows it's utter contempt for everything the old DCU had. I'm pretty sure now that I'll be dropping every DC title I'm still collecting thanks to this fiasco.

Um...you do know that Clark and Diana were a couple at one point WAAAAY before the New 52, don't you? Like, they were a couple back in the '80s. So, this is essentially just DC retelling the story of a relationship that already transpired in the past.

F*ck yeah!!!

@Maybeland said:

@Lvenger said:

@Cooke76: The thing is this is out of the blue. Something Razza Tazz said sums it up pretty well:

@RazzaTazz said:

Imagine if Wonder Woman was replaced by Catwoman instead, it would make no sense right? The two would have no chemistry and no publication history to support that development. The problem with this development is the same, that it runs completely against everything that Wonder Woman is about and what her publication history has developed for her. This is also complete fan service to Superman fans who want him to be romantically involved with all the leading ladies of DC.

@Maybeland: Gee DC hitching their premier male superhero and premier female superhero together? How uncliched and unoriginal is that?

Razza's point literally makes no sense.

Superman has a history with Wonder Woman, they work together,know their secret identities, etc.

Meanwhile Lvenger makes no sense as how often has DC hitched their premier superheroes together? I've only counted 4 times in the last 70 years.

@RazzaTazz you hear that? Apparently you make no sense to this guy? Not surprising though. He does seem to have a simplistic argument. Probably can't comprehend the more advanced arguments

As for my point, it doesn't matter how many times it's been done, it's still a cliche. Both are iconic DC superheroes. Both have had a relationship in the past. The New 52 is supposed to be about new things yet by issue 12 of Justice League, they're retelling a story of the 80s. That's what makes it cliched and unoriginal. I do hope this explanation is simple enough for you to understand.

@_Black said:

I'm fine with this. Nothing wrong with experimentation. It probably won't last anyway.

Exactly my thoughts. I'm fine with Clark and Diana giving it a go, so long as it does not last. I mean, everybody knows that Superman, in the end, belongs with Lois Lane. What I like about their relationship is that it humanizes Clark. Its a reflection of his inner character (that he sees himself as human) that he fell in love with and married a regular woman.

Plus, I really am pulling for Steve and Diana. But, if I were to choose anyone on the League for Diana to be with, it would probably be Batman.

I would like to see how this works out myself. Just don't go overboard like Marvel did with Emma Frost and Cyclops always having their conversations in the bedroom. lol

@Cooke76 said:

@JoseDRiveraTCR7said:

@Cooke76:

http://teamclarklois.tumblr.com/post/24563661600/lois-loves-lana-loves-part-1-comics

Wow, just when I thought I didn't think I could be more unconvinced about Lois...

Did you read the entire post?

NERD RAGE! You people suck!

Let the story play out for New Gods sake before you start blasting it! Liefeld left DC Comics today! Rejoice!

@Lvengersaid:

@Maybeland said:

@Lvenger said:

@Cooke76: The thing is this is out of the blue. Something Razza Tazz said sums it up pretty well:

@RazzaTazz said:

Imagine if Wonder Woman was replaced by Catwoman instead, it would make no sense right? The two would have no chemistry and no publication history to support that development. The problem with this development is the same, that it runs completely against everything that Wonder Woman is about and what her publication history has developed for her. This is also complete fan service to Superman fans who want him to be romantically involved with all the leading ladies of DC.

@Maybeland: Gee DC hitching their premier male superhero and premier female superhero together? How uncliched and unoriginal is that?

Razza's point literally makes no sense.

Superman has a history with Wonder Woman, they work together,know their secret identities, etc.

Meanwhile Lvenger makes no sense as how often has DC hitched their premier superheroes together? I've only counted 4 times in the last 70 years.

@RazzaTazz you hear that? Apparently you make no sense to this guy? Not surprising though. He does seem to have a simplistic argument. Probably can't comprehend the more advanced arguments

As for my point, it doesn't matter how many times it's been done, it's still a cliche. Both are iconic DC superheroes. Both have had a relationship in the past. The New 52 is supposed to be about new things yet by issue 12 of Justice League, they're retelling a story of the 80s. That's what makes it cliched and unoriginal. I do hope this explanation is simple enough for you to understand.

I am sorry but you're not making sound logical arguments, you are making fanboy/girl whinging about change.

You are literally the character from the Simpsons at this point.

Razz point was about putting together characters with no publication history.

That is a lie. Wonder Woman and Superman have a publication history of being in the JLA together.

Superman getting in...

@Maybeland: Ah yes and your original post was such a sound logical argument wasn't it?

@Maybeland said:

I love it . People are so mad,and so futile to stop it. It's the Oh Lawd Comics are Ruined Forever Comments are hilarious.

I bet Geoff Johns does stuff like this so he can read comment threads and laugh at all the haters, while sitting in his tub of money.

The DCnu 52 is outselling Marvel in units, which mean it's going to stay around for years because it is a roaring success.

Be Mad Suckas, Superman and Wonder Woman are hooking up( it won't be the first or last just ask Mark Waid, they had a child together!).

Batman will be fine Catwoman, Ivy, Tailia, Silver St. Cloud will keep him company.

Tell me, what's logical and sound about this hmm? Or is it just a pointless load of drivel? I'm fine with people liking the Superman/Wonder Woman pairing. What I do not like is the demeaning of people's right to express their opinions about said things. It's called reasonable discussion. When you understand it a little better, then maybe you can take part in discussions.

It looks like Superman drugged Wonder Woman with rohypnol. She looks totally out of it. Bad art!

@Zeeguy91 said:

@_Black said:

I'm fine with this. Nothing wrong with experimentation. It probably won't last anyway.

Exactly my thoughts. I'm fine with Clark and Diana giving it a go, so long as it does not last. I mean, everybody knows that Superman, in the end, belongs with Lois Lane. What I like about their relationship is that it humanizes Clark. Its a reflection of his inner character (that he sees himself as human) that he fell in love with and married a regular woman.

Plus, I really am pulling for Steve and Diana. But, if I were to choose anyone on the League for Diana to be with, it would probably be Batman.

Good points in your post. Some people are against this relationship as it makes Diana appear "weak" to be in a relationship, but like with Clark I think that could be a good thing to humanize them.

I like this idea ever since I read Kingdom Come. I hope we get a Superkid out of this. I'm tired of the Lois and Clark thing anyway. We all know at some point they are going to cave and put Clark and Lois back together again.

Wonder Woman and Superman > Superman and Lois Lame any day all day ;)

@Lvenger:

Tell me, what's logical and sound about this hmm? Or is it just a pointless load of drivel? I'm fine with people liking the Superman/Wonder Woman pairing. What I do not like is the demeaning of people's right to express their opinions about said things. It's called reasonable discussion. When you understand it a little better, then maybe you can take part in discussions.

Fine ignore the points I made in latter post, but the idea that any of this has been a reasonable discussions is ludicrous.

The entire first page of post if "I hate DC, this has ruined comics forever, this is the end of the world".

You want to ignore that and pretend that this thread is some academic discussion between PHD holders, you are out of your mind.

But I will repeat what I said in the last post "You are literally the character from the Simpsons at this point."

@Maybeland said:

@Lvenger:

Tell me, what's logical and sound about this hmm? Or is it just a pointless load of drivel? I'm fine with people liking the Superman/Wonder Woman pairing. What I do not like is the demeaning of people's right to express their opinions about said things. It's called reasonable discussion. When you understand it a little better, then maybe you can take part in discussions.

Fine ignore the points I made in latter post, but the idea that any of this has been a reasonable discussions is ludicrous.

The entire first page of post if "I hate DC, this has ruined comics forever, this is the end of the world".

You want to ignore that and pretend that this thread is some academic discussion between PHD holders, you are out of your mind.

But I will repeat what I said in the last post "You are literally the character from the Simpsons at this point."

Juvenile insults. How quaint. Very well. How's about this for a point about why I don't like the Superman/Wonder Woman pairing? In the Villain's Journey, it's clear Diana still cares about Steve. She flies into a rage at Graves when he reveals he captured Steve, threatens to cut Graves' head off whilst marching off to confront him and rescue Steve, beats up Green Lantern and gives her future boyfriend a kick in the face when he tries to calm things down. Also, Steve might be dead now as his soul was seen at the Valley of Souls along with the other Justice Leaguers' loved ones. Moving onto Superman at the end of 12 is purely a dumb move when Johns has pushed the Steve/Diana relationship throughout this story.

Whooohooo! Go get some Amazon supes!

no but seriously finnally they gave him another love interest. I mean he has been with the same chick for 70 years man.

Making superman and wonder woman an item is a bad idea, but maybe johns can pull it off, if he can't he cant.

I look at it like this: 2 super strong beings that exist on the Earth, one from another planet, the other one an offspring of Greek gods. They both fell in love with human beings with no powers whatsoever. Now, imagine those love lives. When it comes to emotions, its a mutual feeling. When it comes to physicality, its a one sided feeling. Steve Trevor's doing his thing and Wonder Woman, with a straight face tries to seem interested.

(Wonder Women thinks to herself: "I don't feel it...oh, but I don't want to hurt his feelings, he's giving it all he's got).

Superman's doing his bizness an Lois is about to pass out in less than 90 seconds. (Supes is thinking to himself: "Dang!!! I got to strain from not stroking her too hard, I could kill her.....hmmm, looks as if she's about to pass out....sigh").

Aside from that fantasy, I think it's a good idea to see this happen. If it actually happens. These two characters need a different challenge in this New 52. How will the relationship play out between two of the most powerful people on the planet.

What would their children be like? INVINCIBLE!!! Magic based and Solar Powered....WHOA!!!

@DarthShap said:

The worst thing about this is that we have already read that story. It is called Action Comics #600, RIGHT AFTER THEIR FIRST REBOOT in 1988.

And guess what? They realised they had nothing in common pretty fast and decided not to do that again.

Like so many things in this reboot, it has already been done and it was better the first time around.

My point exactly, Darth. Thank you.

People argue to me that this is supposed to be a "fresh new start" for DC. If that's so, then why're they recycling old story ideas that were done 20+ years ago? And only one year into their much-touted relaunch? To me that says laziness and a general lack of imagination in the so-called talented writers at DC. And yet another example of many of these has-beens currently working there trying to reclaim some of their past glory.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatever! But I have the feeling this won't last longer than half year

@Lvenger said:

Juvenile insults. How quaint. Very well. How's about this for a point about why I don't like the Superman/Wonder Woman pairing? In the Villain's Journey, it's clear Diana still cares about Steve. She flies into a rage at Graves when he reveals he captured Steve, threatens to cut Graves' head off whilst marching off to confront him and rescue Steve, beats up Green Lantern and gives her future boyfriend a kick in the face when he tries to calm things down. Also, Steve might be dead now as his soul was seen at the Valley of Souls along with the other Justice Leaguers' loved ones. Moving onto Superman at the end of 12 is purely a dumb move when Johns has pushed the Steve/Diana relationship throughout this story.

Well, so far we can't really say what exactly will occur. The cover reveal might just be a tease, meanwhile inside the comic Superman might console Diana over losing Steve, which could reveal small threads of things to come. After all, comic covers have almost always been unabashedly misleading, so we can't really say what will actually happen.

As for a Kal and Diana, I'm really happy about this. They've always felt right to me. They can connect on a level far deeper than Clark and Lois ever could. After all, didn't a pre-DCnU interview state that the New 52 Superman would be a bit more foreign, acting reserved like an alien would. Diana, I think, can understand that, being in a foreign world that's not truly your own. Not only that but they both know the ins and outs of 'the job'. Embodying an exceptional symbol, being not only a beacon of hope, but also facing insurmountable threads day in and day out. To be truthful, I never understood how Lois and Clark ever related to one another.

I've always been a Marvel person, however, I did follow DC from the sidelines, but the New 52 was a great jumping on point for me, to see new life breathed into the DC Universe. Seeing Superman and Wonder Woman together for me is the reason why I started reading DC. It's a whole new world of possibilities.

No No No No No NO!

Not this whole thing again! Have we not established already that Clark Kent can only truly love Lois Lane? Their love has lasted for over 80 years and although its had its ups and downs, it has always been Lois and Clark. I'm just far too stuck in my ways to even enjoy the idea of Clark and Diana. Just last week my mother saw an episode of Smallville and asked, "Why is Clark-y with that Lana Lang? Where is Lois?" and my mother has never picked up a comic in her life.

Plus -- Steve Trevor has gotten good! His character is now pretty damn amazing in this new series and it would be a shame to damage his badass appearance by making his relationship with members of the team sour. Would he be angsty? Would he just hate Superman?

Unfortunately for all...as quoted on Yahoo (Not sure how solid their reporting is...it is Yahoo): The New Power Couple: Superman and Wonder Woman By Michael Krumboltz - Yahoo Movie Talk Courtesy of DC Comics/EW.comScandal in Metropolis! Superman and Wonder Woman are canoodling on the cover of an upcoming "Justice League" comic. No word on what flavor of Ben and Jerry's Lois Lane was gorging on. Now we have to get a little geeky here to explain what's going on. DC Comics, the publisher of Superman and Wonder Woman, recently relaunched all their comics, calling them The New 52. This is the 12th issue of a reboot for The Justice League, kind of DC's version of "The Avengers." Loyal readers might have suspected something like this was coming. As Entertainment Weekly points out, Superman and Wonder Woman have been getting all flirty in recent issues of the new comic. Apparently, they just couldn't fight the feeling anymore. And this isn't going to be some lame one-off where in the next issue Superman wakes up from a dream and he's still dating Lois Lane. EW quotes writer Geoff Johns: "This is the new status quo," says Johns. He added that the new power couple's relationship will have a big effect on the rest of the DC Universe. While some folks may be outraged at the idea of Superman and Wonder Woman smooching this isn't the first time they've taken their relationship to a higher plane. In the Batman-centric "The Dark Knight Strikes Again," Superman and Wonder Woman have a daughter named Lara (aka Supergirl) together. Many EW commenters believe Batman and Wonder Woman would make a better couple, but we think Superman is a good match. These two need a partner who understands what it's like to save the world over and over again. Plus their outfits compliment each other so well.

@Azjenco said:

@Lvenger said:

Juvenile insults. How quaint. Very well. How's about this for a point about why I don't like the Superman/Wonder Woman pairing? In the Villain's Journey, it's clear Diana still cares about Steve. She flies into a rage at Graves when he reveals he captured Steve, threatens to cut Graves' head off whilst marching off to confront him and rescue Steve, beats up Green Lantern and gives her future boyfriend a kick in the face when he tries to calm things down. Also, Steve might be dead now as his soul was seen at the Valley of Souls along with the other Justice Leaguers' loved ones. Moving onto Superman at the end of 12 is purely a dumb move when Johns has pushed the Steve/Diana relationship throughout this story.

Well, so far we can't really say what exactly will occur. The cover reveal might just be a tease, meanwhile inside the comic Superman might console Diana over losing Steve, which could reveal small threads of things to come. After all, comic covers have almost always been unabashedly misleading, so we can't really say what will actually happen.

As for a Kal and Diana, I'm really happy about this. They've always felt right to me. They can connect on a level far deeper than Clark and Lois ever could. After all, didn't a pre-DCnU interview state that the New 52 Superman would be a bit more foreign, acting reserved like an alien would. Diana, I think, can understand that, being in a foreign world that's not truly your own. Not only that but they both know the ins and outs of 'the job'. Embodying an exceptional symbol, being not only a beacon of hope, but also facing insurmountable threads day in and day out. To be truthful, I never understood how Lois and Clark ever related to one another.

I've always been a Marvel person, however, I did follow DC from the sidelines, but the New 52 was a great jumping on point for me, to see new life breathed into the DC Universe. Seeing Superman and Wonder Woman together for me is the reason why I started reading DC. It's a whole new world of possibilities.

Interesting points. This is what I was trying to explain to Maybeland earlier about reasonable discussion. However, Razza Tazz said something that really summed up why a Wonder Woman and Superman pairing isn't necessarily the best thing:

@RazzaTazz said:

I think really based on Diana's history and well developed character, it should not be Superman and any other hero. It should be Diana and a firefighter from the Bronx, or a doctor from Medicins Sans Frontieres working in the Congo. She wouldn't be impressed by some guy wearing a cape, she would be more impressed by someone truly selfless. So Diana and Clark coming together has all the applicability of something like a one-night stand, which neither of them are really for either given their background and beliefs.

But then, it is interesting that Diana can't be the most powerful one in the relationship I guess.

@Lvenger said:

Interesting points. This is what I was trying to explain to Maybeland earlier about reasonable discussion. However, Razza Tazz said something that really summed up why a Wonder Woman and Superman pairing isn't necessarily the best thing:

@RazzaTazz said:

I think really based on Diana's history and well developed character, it should not be Superman and any other hero. It should be Diana and a firefighter from the Bronx, or a doctor from Medicins Sans Frontieres working in the Congo. She wouldn't be impressed by some guy wearing a cape, she would be more impressed by someone truly selfless. So Diana and Clark coming together has all the applicability of something like a one-night stand, which neither of them are really for either given their background and beliefs.

But then, it is interesting that Diana can't be the most powerful one in the relationship I guess.

Hmm, yes. Well, I am a bit new to DC and only learning most of the characters still. I'm also not sure how different the 'new' Wonder Woman is to the previous DCnU one, if at all.

While to me Wonder Woman and Superman may look like a perfect match, I guess to a long time DC fan it represent all flavors of wrong. They did say the New 52 was a good place for the unenlightened to latch their hooks in, so in that regard it's yay for me, but maybe its not such a good thing for long time fans.

Anyway, I think I've pondered enough. We'll just have to see where this one takes us.

When I first saw the cover, I immediately stated to myself: "F### that.", and my opinion still stands strong.

I hope it's a red herring cover, if not, it's not like this s### will last very long anyway.