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Interview: Scott Snyder Talks 'Return of the Joker: Death of the Family'

"This is the Joker bigger, badder and more twisted than you've ever seen him before."

Last week DC Comics announced the return of the Joker this October in the pages of BATMAN. The story will be by Scott Snyder with art by Greg Capullo. This isn't just another Joker story. And something that was really emphasized last week, this will indeed be a story that will spill out of the pages of BATMAN and into other titles.

We had the chance to talk to Scott about this art and the Joker in general.

Cover to BATMAN #13 by Greg Capullo
Cover to BATMAN #13 by Greg Capullo
== TEASER ==
No Caption Provided

Comic Vine: How will your Joker differ from past versions? Similar or different from his appearance in Black Mirror?

Scott Snyder: It will be similar to his appearance in Black Mirror in some ways. For me, that's sort of the genesis of the Joker I consider most my own. In the way that he there, for example, doesn't need his grin and have his iconic face in that issue to be who he is at his core. He's just scary and sort of out of his mind.

More importantly I think that the Joker that really represents the kind of thing I love about the character is he like the demon on Batman's shoulder. He really seems to know things about his enemies or the people that he's going after and what unnerves them. It's his job, as he sees it, to expose the darkest corners of Bruce's heart. He feels he knows them better than anyone else. He serves him as almost a court jester to his king in that way. In that, he makes these horrifying nightmares to life to make Bruce stronger. He feels he has a very special bond and relationship with him that way. It's something that only the two of them share.

That Joker, to me, is something that's built on a lot of versions that have come before but is also important to me in a personal way. It's my own take on the mythology of this event that we'll explore in this event. It has to do with the symbolism of the court jester, the tarot card of the joker, Peter Pan and all kinds of stuff that I'm going to roll into it to make it something that's different even if it's built on the legacy of the character.

CV: What's your favorite Joker story and why?

SS: My favorite Joker story is more of a constellation of things. THE KILLING JOKE is probably my favorite simple because when I first read it, it blew me away with its psychological complexity and the richness of the relationship between Batman and the Joker. The ending of that where they're sort of laughing together is one of my favorite scenes in all of Batman. There's an homage to the opening of THE KILLING JOKE in the opening of this story as well with the rain. That would have to be my favorite even though I'm not a humongous fan of the comedian part of it. I do think the brilliance of that is the ambiguity that's introduced at the end. The Joker says he doesn't quite remember if that's how it happened. So the idea that that might not be his origin is something that really saves that part and makes it really brilliant.

No Caption Provided

Close behind would be Frank Miller's THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS where the Joker was just catatonic until released was just genius. Similarly, Batman Beyond: The Return of the Joker [animated movie] is another favorite and behind that is ARKHAM ASYLUM by Grant Morrison.

CV: What's the most underrated Joker story?

SS: I think the Batman Beyond: The Return of the Joker. Honestly I think a lot of the Denny O'Neill/Neil Adams stuff. I don't know if it's so much underrated but more that we don't talk about it as much as we could. For the level of darkness and complexity of the Joker that was introduced there. Also in the animated stuff, again, I don't know if it's necessarily underrated but at the same time I feel, for me, it holds a lot more resonance than I expected it to when I first saw it. So I think I probably underrated it myself.

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CV: If Joker did die, as he almost did in his first appearance in BATMAN #1 (1940), who would be Batman's top villain? An existing one or a new one?

SS: I think no matter what, he'd come back. It's impossible to think of Batman without the Joker. He's sort of his dark twin. If I had to pick another villain…to me, Joker is the product of Gotham. Gotham is both the greatest ally and villain of Batman. There are others. I love Two-Face and so many of the rogues. Two-Face would probably be next on my list of interesting villains to explore.

CV: Should Joker be used sparingly in stories?

SS: Yes, definitely. Believe me, I really feel Joker is the greatest villain of all time. There's no reason to touch him unless you're really going to do something that you feel is a game changer of a story with him. Something that's really relevant to who he is. I've tried to be very cautious about using him and setting it up over the past year and taking him away from the table so he could come back in this big way.

When you think about it, he is used very sparingly, that's the irony of it. People seem to think he's around a lot in other mediums but in comics. Before No Man's Land, I think the biggest stories with him was in the 80s. I loved his role in BATMAN R.I.P. and I loved his role in GOTHAM CENTRAL but as the central villain of a story he's not used that much. Here we wanted this to be his big giant return. This is the Joker bigger, badder and more twisted than you've ever seen him before.

No Caption Provided

CV: Speaking of R.I.P., it was mentioned in the announcement that Batman will be fighting to protect his secret identity in this story. Will there be any clarification over events in RIP? Did Joker become aware of Batman's identity?

SS: It's not going to reference R.I.P. at all, honestly.

CV: Do you feel Joker knows his identity…or maybe you can't answer that right now...

SS: I loved the way Grant handled the Joker where he seems to know more than he lets on. There will be the question of how much the Joker knows.

You won't have to have read R.I.P. to understand what he's claiming to know or how he seems to know what he knows. It will all be completely contained in this story.

People should read R.I.P. because it's fun and brilliant but if you're out there and haven't but there's no connection and this isn't predicated on that at all.

CV: Is there any other comics we should read first like DETECTIVE COMICS #1 where Joker's face gets cut off or SUICIDE SQUAD #7 for more on Joker's face and Harley?

No Caption Provided

SS: You don't have to read anything. Of course I would say go read those. I love Tony [Daniel] and Adam [Glass] and you should pick up their series because they're doing great stuff in them. I don't want you to feel you have to read anything else to understand what's happening in BATMAN ever. That's what I meant with R.I.P. also. I would never write a story that was dependent on another story

CV: Will you be touching on Joker's past or origin at all?

SS: Not really, no. It's not really about that. I could tease the fans and say, "Oh wait and see, maybe we're going to redo his origin." Honestly it really isn't about that. It's much more about the Joker having a big mission and a really big point to prove and an axe to grind. He's coming back and saying, "There's a reason I got my face cut off. There's a reason I've been away for a year. There's a reason I'm setting the traps I am for you guys. There's a reason I'm as violent and angry as I am coming back and how I'm different. Why I'm dressed the way I am, why my face looks the way it does, why all of this stuff is happening…" There's a really big point he's coming at Batman. It has to do with how he views himself in the Bat mythology and how he views Batman and the twisted logic that he has.

Part of the fun will also be to see how he's going to burn down the whole house. That means he's going to take on all of the other Bat-characters as well. Part of fun will be you'll have something completely self-contained.

No Caption Provided

This is something that's going to pit the Joker against the other members of the Bat Family in their books. This isn't something I've really had a chance to talk about too much. You will see him go after Nightwing and Batgirl, Damian and Tim even in TEEN TITANS. Also Jason in RED HOOD. Even though those stories will be completely self-contained and you won't need to read them to understand anything in BATMAN, Batman will also be 1000% self-contained.

You'll get to see Joker square off with all the members of the Bat Family in ways you've never seen because part of the fun is in that even though he's fought Barbara or went after her because of what he did in THE KILLING JOKE, he was actually going after Jim Gordon. He hasn't actually squared off with her. He's very happy to say that to them. To Nightwing he'll say, "I've never really faced you. I've only used you as a pawn."

He can say the same thing to Jason. "I only used you to get at him and now I'm looking at you. I'm coming for you and I'm going to burn your world down."

None of them have really taken on the Joker in this way. The arc is called, "Return of the Joker: Death of the Family."

Joker's return begins in BATMAN #13, on sale October 10.

Tony Guerrero is the Editor-in-Chief of Comic Vine. You can follow him on Twitter @GManFromHeck. He still remembers being confused over Kasey Kasem voicing both Shaggy and Robin in Scooby-Doo Meets Batman.

103 Comments

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The_Soverighn

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Edited By The_Soverighn

@Bobzenub said:

@KainScion:

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thatlad

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Edited By thatlad

I just watched return of the joker on lovefilm instant, forgot how good that was. Apparently it's 12 years old, that not only makes me feel old but also makes me sad at how long it been since the dcau has been off tv. The batman series was my childhood and I despair for my kids growing up without that gritty type of cartoon

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Zereta

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Edited By Zereta

So, what's happening in Batman #12?

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kadosho_16bit

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Edited By kadosho_16bit

Always been a fan of the dark tales of the Bat. But the Joker just makes things even more nightmarish. In R.I.P, it really got to me, (you know that scene with two pages, and the garb with colorful ketchup). We've seen him go far off the deep end. But now.. wow I get the feeling more than one character may be in big trouble. Can't wait to find out how this turns out.

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Surkit

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Edited By Surkit

jokers the shiz, you say other wise your hating.

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iGobot

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Edited By iGobot

This is gonna be SICK! Holy carp I can't wait!

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JSH92

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Edited By JSH92

@FanofUltraman said:

God, I wish someone would just shoot him already.

You mean the Joker? Yea, I wish lol. It would be so freaking sweet if after all these people saying "Oh my god this is gonna be EPIC!!!!!" if Harvey Bullock just filled his head full of bullets. Joker used to be my favorite until I realized how annoying he can be. But, of course that won't happen...because he's the Joker and everyone likes to ride his dic....tionary.

@Delphic said:

Wasn't really all that interested until the very end, when he said the Joker will be coming after the bat kids. Now that sounds cool.

I'm actually the opposite. I was pretty interested until they talked about it being another big crossover event. It's just the Joker. Let's not try to make this bigger than it should be. Another thing that is really killing this story for me is all this hype and people trying to say how EPIC it's gonna be.

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FanofUltraman

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Edited By FanofUltraman

God, I wish someone would just shoot him already.

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NXH

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Edited By NXH

Words cannot describe how excited I am for this arc. =)

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NEEK_03

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Edited By NEEK_03

this just sounds too good.

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DrHon

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Edited By DrHon

return of the joker, and marvel deciding to revolve their world around nick fury jr, i see theres only one way to go...im jumping ships to DC!!

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SupBatz

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Edited By SupBatz

I'm a little disappointed to hear that Snyder does not plan to focus at all on Joker's comedian aspect. I like a nice mix between the psychotically, creepily twisted Joker and the dark comedian.

But I'll wait until I read the story before I worry about that sort of thing.

Looks like this is gonna be pretty great. Not sure how I feel about Joker knowing the secret identities of the Batfamily but if it's done well then I'll certainly have no beef with it.

As for this whole "Joker should be used sparingly!" nonsense all over the place.... Come on guys... It's like Snyder said, he isn't actually used very often and people talk about him like he's in every other Batman issue. He's Batman's greatest enemy; of course he'll appear a lot. And as long as he is written well and the story is good in all of his appearances then I don't care how often he is seen.

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Eyz

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Edited By Eyz

Awesome!

Can't wait!

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RedheadedAtrocitus

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Anyone agree with me when they saw this the first time? Is this not TOTALLY appropriate? lol

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doomsilver

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Edited By doomsilver

This is going to be EPIC!

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Emperormeister734

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when the joker returns the real fun begins.

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CrashLanden

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Edited By CrashLanden

As others have said... Looking forward to this. I hope I don't get my expectations so high that nothing can live up them, though... Anticipating the movie, too, is getting a little too revved up, I think.

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Falconer

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Edited By Falconer

@Johnnyjavavee said:

man i can't believe therehas already been two crossovers just in the span on 13 issues. that's a little bit much. Snyders story will probably be amazing but enough with the forcing it into other comics.

Assuming things will be similar to Night of the Owls, it could be another ten issues before Joker related stuff shows up in the other Bat-family titles.

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Johnnyjavavee

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Edited By Johnnyjavavee

man i can't believe therehas already been two crossovers just in the span on 13 issues. that's a little bit much. Snyders story will probably be amazing but enough with the forcing it into other comics.

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RedHush1

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Edited By RedHush1

Like he said You don't have to pick up any other bat titles to understand the story. But I do highly recommend picking up Red Hood and The Outlaws and Batgirl. Because of the history Joker and Red Hood have together. The Joker Killed Jason for god sakes! And then he shot Batgirl making her paralyzed!

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Delphic

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Edited By Delphic

Wasn't really all that interested until the very end, when he said the Joker will be coming after the bat kids. Now that sounds cool.

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Mikey Venture

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Edited By Mikey Venture

Looking forward. Bigtime.

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sentryman555

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Edited By sentryman555

I can't wait to see The Joker go after Jason Todd!

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GR2Blackout

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Edited By GR2Blackout

Joker returns! WOOOO-HOOOOOOOO!

I knew he'd never be TRULY gone.

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RIKR2

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Edited By RIKR2

knock knock! whos theree? ..... the evil, murdering sociopath, JOKER thits is going to be epic

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RainEffect

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Edited By RainEffect
@KainScion said:

he fuc*ed up mr freeze. lets see how he destroys joker.

Surely you must be able to appreciate how he turned Mr. Freeze into a psychotic villain? Honestly, I think the whole Nora angle is a joke - so I adore how Snyder turned it into this faux obsession of his.
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Mr_Wayne69

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Edited By Mr_Wayne69

I'll admit though that after this interview I'm thoroughly looking forward to reading this. "None of them have really taken on the Joker in this way." Well damn.

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Catman9

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Edited By Catman9
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Mr_Wayne69

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Edited By Mr_Wayne69

@KainScion said:

he fuc*ed up mr freeze. lets see how he destroys joker.

Yeeeeeahhhhh... I read the new Batman Annual and I have to admit the story would have been just fine if it wasn't Mr. Freeze. That story was insanely unnecessary and it felt like an alternate universe slap in the face to an origin that was cleaned up nicely by BTAS.

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Rumble Man

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Edited By Rumble Man

@Savage_Hawkman said:

@KainScion said:

he fuc*ed up mr freeze. lets see how he destroys joker.

Now Captain Cold is the coolest!

Its a conspiracy I tells ya

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csl316

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Edited By csl316

A shout out to Return of the Joker, nice.

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nbradsher

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Edited By nbradsher

I hated what he did to freeze. He took the one redeeming quality away from him, the one that made me question whether or not batman was always right. Now all of batman's rogues are pure psychopaths or villains. it's boring when you don't have the grey area.

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Savage_Hawkman

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Edited By Savage_Hawkman

@KainScion said:

he fuc*ed up mr freeze. lets see how he destroys joker.

Now Captain Cold is the coolest!

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vernierhawk001

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Edited By vernierhawk001

0_0.........when does this come out?

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crazyflashfan11

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Edited By crazyflashfan11

I liked what Scott did with Freeze, and i LOVE the Joker, so seeing what h'ell do with this will be awesome.

SCOTT SNYDER + THE JOKER + PURE AWESOMENESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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thenexusrebound

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Edited By thenexusrebound

@KainScion said:

he fuc*ed up mr freeze. lets see how he destroys joker.

I like the idea that Snyder came up with for Mr. Freeze. Better then having her come back as some fire lady. I was on the edge of my seat the whole comic of Annual. It was a twist I didn't see coming and it paid off.

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GarryDH

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Edited By GarryDH

Sounds amazing. Seeing what Babs makes of him will be cool too. And I'm glad to see Tim's getting in on the action this time!

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hyperman

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Edited By hyperman

the Joker versus Barbara gordon, this is what I've been dying to see for so long, well, actually, they already had an encounter in birds of prey, and Babs broke his smile. I wonder how she would react now she's back as batgirl , will she be able to match him in battle?

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Goji64

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Edited By Goji64

I can't wait!

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Joffen

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Edited By Joffen

So freakin' pumped for this! This will be a story we will be talking about twenty years from now. Wow. Imagine a Joker story where there are actual consequences and he's not some toy to play with and put away for later. I love what Snyder is doing with the Court of Owls and the fact that he's gonna be tackling the Joker next makes me so freaking happy. Hurry up, October!!!

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-The Renegade-

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Edited By -The Renegade-

I'd be so down to just go take a beer with Scott Snyder.

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Than11

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Edited By Than11

It's a Bat-family/Joker FACE-OFF! ...get it?!

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InnerVenom123

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Edited By InnerVenom123

This is gonna be amazing.

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RedOwl_1

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Edited By RedOwl_1

It's gonna be priceless, f*cking awesoem, I can't wait

PS: Man I love you Snyder !!!

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transistorradio

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Edited By transistorradio
No Caption Provided

The look kinda reminds me of this

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CaptainMexico

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Edited By CaptainMexico

I can't wait for Snyder's interpretation of the Joker. It's going to be great.

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scottyhanstein

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Edited By scottyhanstein

@ObsideonDarman said:

How the hell is Mr. Freeze "effed" -- It's one of the best stories he's had to date.

I honestly cannot wait to see what Scott does with The Joker. Extremely excited about this.

Agree 100%! I really dug Snyder's take on Freeze, gave him some depth and showed how cold (terrible pun intended) he truly is. Think most people who claim to have hated the Annual were bothered by Freeze's sleeveless look...they need to get over it, the story was stellar.

I LOVE The Joker, been obsessed since childhood, can NOT wait for Snyder's take on Joker.

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Mega_spidey01

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Edited By Mega_spidey01

@edtie97 said:

I'm so excited!!! This looks absolutely amazing!
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Funrush

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Edited By Funrush

@Grey56 said:

Hopefully that is the cover to whatever Batman issue he debuts in. No other garbage on the cover - just that image of him and the title logo. I will send that succer off to CGC in a heart-beat.

It is.

Wait, so this is another event? We're getting a Joker fights everyone event? I'm already excited.

This is something that's going to pit the Joker against the other members of the Bat Family in their books. This isn't something I've really had a chance to talk about too much. You will see him go after Nightwing and Batgirl, Damian and Tim even in TEEN TITANS. Also Jason in RED HOOD. Even though those stories will be completely self-contained and you won't need to read them to understand anything in BATMAN, Batman will also be 1000% self-contained.

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edtie97

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Edited By edtie97

I'm so excited!!! This looks absolutely amazing!