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Interview: Scott Snyder Talks BATMAN #17, Batman vs. Joker and What We Can Expect Next

The BATMAN writer shares his thoughts on the outcome of 'Death of the Family' and hints at what's coming up next. There will be some spoilers for BATMAN #17.

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It seems this week everyone is talking about BATMAN #17 and conclusion to Death of the Family. There's been a slight mix in the reaction to the outcome. Many have praised the final issue while other question the fact that certain things did or did not happen. The issue was clearly full of suspense and Joker's plan played out on a deeply psychological level. It's definitely an issue you should read two or three times to catch all the meaning and detail.

But what does Scott Snyder himself have to say? You may have heard his (spoiler-free) discussion on last week's podcast but today we're getting down to the facts. We asked Scott about the conclusion and he doesn't hold back. He also gives an idea what he has planned in coming issues.

There will be some spoilers for BATMAN #17. Make sure you read that issue first.

Comic Vine: How does it feel having completed this epic story?

Scott Snyder: It feels great. We're incredibly grateful to everyone for how supportive they've been on the story itself. None of us expected it to be as big as it is or as it got. With something like this, you just try to tell a story that's really personal to you and hope people like it. It's been a huge overwhelming and wonderful surprise. I'm really grateful for it.

== TEASER ==

CV: If it's been a year since Joker got his face cut off, does that mean a year's gone by in the New 52 Universe? Are we now six years in?

SS: Well it's hard for me to say because you know a lot of books have different things happening at different times. Even though we're in a shared universe, the events of Death of the Family really only took about a week or a little over a week. In regard to other books I know that move faster in time, in different speeds than we have. Some have stories that cover months. I think we all kind of meet and find each other but I don't want to speak for any other books in the DCU. But I like to think we're about a year off of what happened with the Court of Owls and that story, in Gotham at least.

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CV: For years the big question has been does Joker know Batman secrets? You finally answered this. What made you decide to go the way you did?

SS: Decisions I made in the beginning, about what Joker would know and what the ending would be…I thought really hard about what if he did know. What if he was using that evidence…my feeling was it just felt untrue to character. The Joker really finding out who they were, more importantly, who Batman was, it just felt, to me, it would ruin his fun. It felt completely against to the relationship that I love.

My feeling was that in this way, he could say, "I know who you are." Bruce, because he knows Joker well enough would say, "I know that's not true." But he has no evidence to back it up to his family except for a deep knowledge and understanding of this horrifying villain. Even admitting that he understands him well enough to know that is difficult to do. It's especially difficult to do when he's coming at all of your allies and your proof is simply this familiarity with him, that you're almost horrified to say you have.

To me, that was a much more interesting route to go. If he knew, I felt like it also moved him forward. It would leave a legacy for those characters, unless you wiped his memory, it would be very difficult to make stories from this after. The stories would be such a big challenge and that wasn't something I wanted to leave behind. Mostly it just didn't feel true to the core of the characters.

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CV: This will definitely go down as one of the greatest Joker stories, besides THE KILLING JOKE, which other ones stand out for you?

SS: There's so many. I always loved ARKHAM ASYLUM by Grant Morrison, "The Five Way Revenge" (in BATMAN #251) his interpretation in THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, Mark Hamill's Joker in the animated series has been a tremendous favorite for me all the way through to the Batman Beyond - Return of the Joker movie, his interpretation in The Dark Knight movie…It's hard because there's so many wonderful interpretations and they're so different from one another. It's one of the things that makes the character so interesting and rich. I guess my very very favorite would be his interpretation in THE KILLING JOKE and in THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS and in the animated series. Those three are the constellation I think we fall somewhere between.

CV: What's been some of the best or craziest rumors to the ending you've heard?

SS: I think the craziest rumor was Joker would pull his face off and it would be one of Bruce's parent…again. I feel every time we do a story with a mystery Bruce's parents become the theory. One that was most prevalent this time was that Alfred would die. I just want to say because I haven't really addressed this in other interviews yet, with people starting to read the issue now as retailers get it, while some of the comments are generous, I know there's going to be a vocal contingent of people that probably were expecting someone to die. They expected someone to be horribly hurt in a way that would be permanent.

No Caption Provided

I thought really long and hard about that before we began the story, I promise you. I really thought about what it would mean to kill Alfred or what it would mean to kill one of the Bat Family. As much as I understand the desire for that kind of lasting impact and for that kind of tangible consequence, for me, I really felt as though it was such a negative legacy to leave.

On top of that, I just didn't think that was what the story was about. I felt it would really overshadow the damage that the Joker has done to Bruce and to the Family in exposing this kind of deep distrust that I think Bruce has for them. He distrusts them only to protect them from things like the Joker. The exposure of that and the damage that the Joker has caused is so bone-deep that it will have a lasting effect in their relationships. This will come back up in the story lines. That would be compromised by a more bombastic death or mutilation.

That's my thinking on it and I understand if people, the blood-thirsty wonderful fans out there, wish somebody had died. For me, it just wasn't what this was about. I know there was so much speculation about it and I love the speculation. We're very proud and excited by the way this ends. I feel it's where the story has been headed since the very beginning. I really hope that everyone enjoys it as much as we do. We're very grateful for the positive response so far.

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CV: How did the dinner scene in the cave come to you? Were you having dinner with the family one night and thought how you could make a really twisted scene for Batman?

SS: Heh heh, I just imagined them without faces? The way it came to me, the story is about the Joker saying that, "I know you better than anyone and you know me better than anyone. Knowing each other beneath these faces, these masks, beneath my superficial grin and beneath your cowl, it's just more of the same. I can cut my face off and beneath this face I"m still grinning. I'm still your jester, still your clown. And I know beneath your mask, because of your actions, you're still my Bat-King. You're still just Batman. You're not just whoever it is you're supposed to be. Your family is trying to convince you of that."

I know that what I wanted was some kind of exposure because he had his face off, I thought this would be perfect. I would just take their faces off and have it be this big moment. I'm not gonna lie, I did think about taking their faces off. I did have that discussion with DC. I said, "I'm thinking about this" and I think they would have been okay if I'd gone there. I really felt that would've been too grotesque. On top of that, how are you going to function with five characters with no faces? They would have to come back from that.

It was more true to form of the Joker, and this is why I'm so proud of the ending, to play a joke on them. The joke that he's playing is essentially to say, "I could pretend that I know who you are and I could pretend to expose you this way. I'm exposing you more deeply and more truthfully than if I did do these things for real. I don't need to cut your faces off. I don't need to kill one of you. I don't need to do those things to create the rift between you that's going to last and show that there's truth to what I said about Batman loving me more than you. Even if it's the tiniest sliver of truth, a 99.9% lie, I've proven that there's that barb in there." In doing that, he plays a terrific joke on them.

CV: If you did cut their faces off, you could have introduced Hush, Thomas Elliot, into the New 52.

SS: Ha ha. That was another theory, actually, that Joker was Hush. I saw that one, that it was Hush wearing his face and Joker would be tied up some place at the end. They're great theories, honestly, it was like during Court of Owls I thought maybe we should have gone that way. At the end of the day, I'm proud where this went being the culmination of where the story was headed emotionally and psychologically from the beginning. I would feel weird if he pulled his face off and it was another villain. If Joker was tied up somewhere and this was all a big fake out, I would felt really uncomfortable with the massive mutilation.

I would feel that if we would've killed off Alfred. Maybe I'm wrong, my feeling is I may want something like that to happen on the surface because you want change and you want something big to discuss. Deep down, it would break my heart for Alfred to die, as a fan. To have Batman grieve for issues and issues and issues about that, to be alone in the Cave and all of the fallout from that, it's not something that I would want. It's not something that I would want to write or read. It doesn't mean that things like that won't happen on my watch. It doesn't mean that we might not do a story soon where something massive like that happens. For this story, it just felt, for lack of a better term, overkill.

No Caption Provided

CV: What happened to Riddler, Two-Face and Penguin since 16? Did Joker just let them go or keep them locked up?

SS: They're locked up. They got caught. But you're going to see the really really soon. You're going to see them really soon again.

CV: Even though Batman sorta wins the battle against Joker, do you feel Joker sorta won in forming a wedge between Bruce and the others?

SS: I definitely feel Joker won. If you had to score who won more, the Joker is the victor in this one. Batman definitely stopped him and he saved his Family. I think Joker did what he wanted to do, even if he didn't end up killing all of the Family. He made his point. He really drove a knife between all of them and it's going to hurt for a long time. Batman won on the surface but I think Joker won beneath.

No Caption Provided

CV: Will we be seeing another big crossover soon?

SS: Not from me, honestly. The next story we're going to do starts in issue 21. It's truly our most ambitious story and I've been planning and gearing up for it for a long time. I want it to be the first time. With the Owls we crossed over and Joker we crossed over. I wanted to get to do more of just Batman on his own. The next big story is really solo Batman. When we finish that, we have a story, we're talking literally a year from now, when we're done with that, we actually have a big story that's going to reel the whole Bat Family into it. A big horrifying event. Ha ha.

CV: Do you have plans on how you're going to top this story?

SS: I try not to think of it that way or I would just get completely nutty, you know? The way I try to think about it is to try and approach the story like you have to do the one that's most important and personal to you. This one was incredibly important to me. It's my most personal story on BATMAN by far. It's about being a dad and the feelings that Bruce has about the family he loves and if they make him stronger or more vulnerable. How he wishes he could stop worrying about them. The next one is bigger in scope. It's more sort of A Court of Owl size. It's also one that, to me, is deeply personal. I'm really really proud of that. I really can't think about topping them sales-wise or in terms of popularity because I would just be chasing that. I just have to turn a corner and say I'm just giving this story…it's the same thing I tell my students in my class, I'm just trying to write the story I would most like to pick up as a comic book fan and read myself. I just hope you guys feel the same way as you read it.

BATMAN #18
BATMAN #18

CV: Well, each time, you do manage to top it. So I don't have any doubt.

SS: Well thanks. This one is definitely our most ambitious coming up. I will say that. It goes towards territory that I've kind of steered cleared of so far. I'm really really eager to see what you guys think. It means a tremendous amount to me. It is the boldest thing that we've done without a doubt.

And thanks to Comic Vine and everyone reading the books. We really appreciate it.

BATMAN #17 is now on sale. Issue 18 is on sale March 13.

92 Comments

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VaizD

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Edited By VaizD

I'd like to see Scott Snyder on an 'Ultimate' Batman book of sorts. Not Earth 1, because those take a decade to write and draw apparently, but a DC imprint separate from the main universe where Snyder could go there with the Joker and other characters and not be worried about leaving repercussions.

Just a pipe dream.

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Outside_85

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Edited By Outside_85

@The Mast said:

@Outside_85 said:

@The Mast said:

@Outside_85 said:

@The Mast said:

No man alive or dead has written a better Batman story than Scott Snyder.

Morrison, Miller and Moore are still alive last I checked.

They are.

What part of my, "No man alive or dead has written a better Batman story than Scott Snyder." was lost on you?

Which part of the massively insinuated; 'Snyder is not even close', did you not understand?

I dunno, but it probably happened around the time when you missed the memo on how you can't tell people they're wrong for statements of obvious opinion, or "correct" them on it.

Really? And where in your post did you make the comment that it was 'just' your oppion?

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Omega-Man

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Edited By Omega-Man

LMAO Snyder thinks this story is up there with Killing Joke? Killing joke changed the status quo of the entire Batman family this didn't. Sure they are affected mentally but they will get over it eventually. What happened to Barbara in Killing joke changed alot of things for Batman and for Barbara at that time. This hasn't changed anything in the long run just might have lightly shaken them up for a month or two but thats it.

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xblah_blahx

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Edited By xblah_blahx

Although not #1, Snyder is definitely top 5 when it comes to batman writers.

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The Mast

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Edited By The Mast

@Outside_85 said:

@The Mast said:

@Outside_85 said:

@The Mast said:

@Outside_85 said:

@The Mast said:

No man alive or dead has written a better Batman story than Scott Snyder.

Morrison, Miller and Moore are still alive last I checked.

They are.

What part of my, "No man alive or dead has written a better Batman story than Scott Snyder." was lost on you?

Which part of the massively insinuated; 'Snyder is not even close', did you not understand?

I dunno, but it probably happened around the time when you missed the memo on how you can't tell people they're wrong for statements of obvious opinion, or "correct" them on it.

Really? And where in your post did you make the comment that it was 'just' your oppion?

You need to be told that me saying that was my opinion? Despite the FACT that it could never be ANYTHING other than subjectivity when discussing personally assessed placement of ability to write stories?

You need me to tell you it's my opinion?

If I say, "Burgers are the best food ever.", would you need me to qualify that as my opinion also?

You needed to be told that my statement of opinion wasn't a fact? I wish you'd said that first, because I'm now discovering you were never worth the time to respond to. Get a clue, please. Jesus.

No, don't argue like, "YOU MADE IT SOUND LIKE A FACT." No, YOU did, when you read it. It cannot be a fact, so it HAS to be opinion.

The bad thing about such great, yet populous sites like this...is the flies in the ointment.

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Outside_85

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Edited By Outside_85

@The Mast said:

@Outside_85 said:

@The Mast said:

@Outside_85 said:

@The Mast said:

@Outside_85 said:

@The Mast said:

No man alive or dead has written a better Batman story than Scott Snyder.

Morrison, Miller and Moore are still alive last I checked.

They are.

What part of my, "No man alive or dead has written a better Batman story than Scott Snyder." was lost on you?

Which part of the massively insinuated; 'Snyder is not even close', did you not understand?

I dunno, but it probably happened around the time when you missed the memo on how you can't tell people they're wrong for statements of obvious opinion, or "correct" them on it.

Really? And where in your post did you make the comment that it was 'just' your oppion?

You need to be told that me saying that was my opinion? Despite the FACT that it could never be ANYTHING other than subjectivity when discussing personally assessed placement of ability to write stories?

You need me to tell you it's my opinion?

If I say, "Burgers are the best food ever.", would you need me to qualify that as my opinion also?

You needed to be told that my statement of opinion wasn't a fact? I wish you'd said that first, because I'm now discovering you were never worth the time to respond to. Get a clue, please. Jesus.

No, don't argue like, "YOU MADE IT SOUND LIKE A FACT." No, YOU did, when you read it. It cannot be a fact, so it HAS to be opinion.

The bad thing about such great, yet populous sites like this...is the flies in the ointment.

I was infact well aware that it wad just you own terribly ill-informed oppinion from the first post, I just thougt it was fair to point out how wrong you were. Epic defence btw

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The Mast

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Edited By The Mast

@Outside_85 said:

@The Mast said:

@Outside_85 said:

@The Mast said:

@Outside_85 said:

@The Mast said:

@Outside_85 said:

@The Mast said:

No man alive or dead has written a better Batman story than Scott Snyder.

Morrison, Miller and Moore are still alive last I checked.

They are.

What part of my, "No man alive or dead has written a better Batman story than Scott Snyder." was lost on you?

Which part of the massively insinuated; 'Snyder is not even close', did you not understand?

I dunno, but it probably happened around the time when you missed the memo on how you can't tell people they're wrong for statements of obvious opinion, or "correct" them on it.

Really? And where in your post did you make the comment that it was 'just' your oppion?

You need to be told that me saying that was my opinion? Despite the FACT that it could never be ANYTHING other than subjectivity when discussing personally assessed placement of ability to write stories?

You need me to tell you it's my opinion?

If I say, "Burgers are the best food ever.", would you need me to qualify that as my opinion also?

You needed to be told that my statement of opinion wasn't a fact? I wish you'd said that first, because I'm now discovering you were never worth the time to respond to. Get a clue, please. Jesus.

No, don't argue like, "YOU MADE IT SOUND LIKE A FACT." No, YOU did, when you read it. It cannot be a fact, so it HAS to be opinion.

The bad thing about such great, yet populous sites like this...is the flies in the ointment.

I was infact well aware that it wad just you own terribly ill-informed oppinion from the first post, I just thougt it was fair to point out how wrong you were. Epic defence btw

Cool.

So, two things. 1: It's not ill-informed because I own over 500 individual issues of Batman. I have read and owned enough to make my decision on who I believe is the best.

2. I'm not wrong. I'm not right. I am stating my opinion on who the best Batman writer is. So, no, you didn't point out how "wrong" I was, or am. You cockily and arrogantly tried correcting something subjective, only to suggest you needed to be told it was subjective, only to say you knew it was my OPINION (Subjective, not right or wrong) and I'm wrong anyway?

Like I said. Do this all in your first post next time so that I can see I'm dealing with someone with no grasp of how to interact in a debate.

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Webjaker

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Edited By Webjaker
Happy Valentine's Day Bat Fans
Happy Valentine's Day Bat Fans
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JakeN7

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@Outside_85 said:

@The Mast said:

No man alive or dead has written a better Batman story than Scott Snyder.

Morrison, Miller and Moore are still alive last I checked.

Yeah because All Star Batman and Robin: The Boy Wonder, and The Dark Knight Strikes Again were such masterpieces : /

As for Alan Moore and Grant Morrison, I agree. Grant Morrison is my favorite comic book writer and I have his whole (still ongoing) Batman saga. I honestly have a truly difficult time deciding who is a better Batman writer, Snyder or Morrison. As for Alan Moore, I can't think of any real significant Batman story that he's written besides The Killing Joke.

Besides, stating that they are still alive wouldn't disprove his statement because he said "no man aliveor dead"

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The Mast

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Edited By The Mast

@JakeN7 said:

@Outside_85 said:

@The Mast said:

No man alive or dead has written a better Batman story than Scott Snyder.

Morrison, Miller and Moore are still alive last I checked.

Yeah because All Star Batman and Robin: The Boy Wonder, and The Dark Knight Strikes Again were such masterpieces : /

As for Alan Moore and Grant Morrison, I agree. Grant Morrison is my favorite comic book writer and I have his whole (still ongoing) Batman saga. I honestly have a truly difficult time deciding who is a better Batman writer, Snyder or Morrison. As for Alan Moore, I can't think of any real significant Batman story that he's written besides The Killing Joke.

Besides, stating that they are still alive wouldn't disprove his statement because he said "no man aliveor dead"

Nothing can disprove my statement. It's my opinion.

It is an entirely subjective opinion, which is obvious to anyone with a working synapse. Except that guy.

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DavidJarman

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Edited By DavidJarman

@The Mast said:

People are crying out, saying he went so far and then backed away from killing someone or irreversible hurting them...but why? If they cut faces off, the cynical fans would've said, "OH! IT ALWAYS GOES BACK TO NORMAL! THIS WON'T LAST!" Snyder, genius as he is, did that for you. "Why should I do something that should be irreversible, only for it to be reversible?"

People still complain.

That last panel killed me. I wonder what significance it has, or if it was just a cool thing to end on.

This

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Sleepbutnodream15

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I thought the ending of Death of the Family was really good. Most people just wanted the shock value of seeing someone get killed, which is probably why they were disappointed; but it went a lot deeper than that.

But does anyone know the exact reason the rest of the family didn't want to talk to Bruce? Was it the secret that Joker told them? Or do they think that Bruce actually cares about Joker and that's why he won't kill him?

Also, big question: Is Joker dead?

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JamesKM716

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Edited By JamesKM716

Gotta be honest, I was super dissapointed by BAtman 17. I don't even get why teh family broke up. It totally seemed like Snyder was prepping for a huge status quo change, and then nothing. Everything goes back to normal. No deaths, no mutilation, no major plot twist, the only difference being that the Bat family is a little bit upset with each other.

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sentryman555

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Edited By sentryman555

I'm actually more excited for the fall out stories now, especially Red Hood with the solicit saying he's getting a new mission. Could he try to track down the joker?

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chroinkero

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Edited By chroinkero

So when does the new Riddler story start?

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mbembet

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Edited By mbembet

snyder is f-ing overrated and it won't be long until he turns into another asshole like geoff johns.

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mattwing87

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Edited By mattwing87

I was really hoping someone would at least get injured or maimed a bit. I enjoyed the story but the name was very misleading and I don't think anything was really achieved. It's common knowledge that Joker may or may not know their identities and they jokes around that he does know.

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GunGunW

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Edited By GunGunW

I'm really starting to dislike the Joker

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RedOwl_1

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@Sleepbutnodream15 said:

I thought the ending of Death of the Family was really good. Most people just wanted the shock value of seeing someone get killed, which is probably why they were disappointed; but it went a lot deeper than that.

But does anyone know the exact reason the rest of the family didn't want to talk to Bruce? Was it the secret that Joker told them? Or do they think that Bruce actually cares about Joker and that's why he won't kill him?

Also, big question: Is Joker dead?

I share your thoughts, at the end I really felt the family's death. Think of all what they've past through together, something had hit them really hard the point that they run away from him.

And I really wonder what did the Joker told them, I have a feeling is something very personal, depending on each member... also I don't think the Joker is dead (honestly he can't)

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alex6166

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Edited By alex6166

Loved the story. No complaints. Plus, there's some guy in Arkham at the end and you think 'oh, that's the Joker before he was the Joker' and then you realize 'OH, he's messing with us... or is he.' I'm rereading this last issue, maybe the last 16.

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darknightspideyfanboy

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@RedOwl_1: yup and now i have to pick up the next issue of night wing,batgirl,red hood,and teen titan to c how DotF effective them

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nappystr8

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Edited By nappystr8

While I'm not completely satisfied with the way Death of the Family played out, I must say I really respect Scott Snyder for not indulging in the gimmicks that so many other comic writers (and possibly more often editors) do. He's proof that you don't have to rock the status quo in order to tell a memorable story. I just hope DC is taking some notes.

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The_Lunact_And_Manic

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@RedOwl_1 said:

@Sleepbutnodream15 said:

I thought the ending of Death of the Family was really good. Most people just wanted the shock value of seeing someone get killed, which is probably why they were disappointed; but it went a lot deeper than that.

But does anyone know the exact reason the rest of the family didn't want to talk to Bruce? Was it the secret that Joker told them? Or do they think that Bruce actually cares about Joker and that's why he won't kill him?

Also, big question: Is Joker dead?

I share your thoughts, at the end I really felt the family's death. Think of all what they've past through together, something had hit them really hard the point that they run away from him.

And I really wonder what did the Joker told them, I have a feeling is something very personal, depending on each member... also I don't think the Joker is dead (honestly he can't)

This

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weenman1

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Edited By weenman1

" The Joker not only doesn't want to be killed by him [ Batman ] but at the same time, doesn't want to put Batman in a place where that is the option he goes for, as much as he says it would make him happy." -Scott Snyder

This statement just seems wrong. The Joker's power comes from the idea that he has no fear of death. To truly stand toe to toe with a nemesis like Batman the Joker can't just pretend he doesn't fear it. Is Snyder implying that the Joker is only feigning insanity? If that's true they he can never defeat Batman. I just don't think Snyder has a grasp on the Joker's true state of mind. I do like the idea that he loves Batman but his insanity should be what causes him to misinterpret the code that Batman stands for as a form of love.

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jpsw123

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Edited By jpsw123

Have people also forgotten the revelation that Bruce revealed his identity to the Joker? I thought that was a pretty big.

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entropy_aegis

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Edited By entropy_aegis

@jpsw123 said:

Have people also forgotten the revelation that Bruce revealed his identity to the Joker? I thought that was a pretty big.

No it's not pretty big at all,it's an obvious fact to everyone who's been reading Batman for atleast 4 years.This is what I hate about Snyder fans ,his supporters pretend as if he just reinvented the wheel.

@nappystr8 said:

While I'm not completely satisfied with the way Death of the Family played out, I must say I really respect Scott Snyder for not indulging in the gimmicks that so many other comic writers (and possibly more often editors) do. He's proof that you don't have to rock the status quo in order to tell a memorable story. I just hope DC is taking some notes.

DOTF is one big gimmick,the storyline in total lasted about 23 issues in the last 5 months, I dont even wanna mention all the hype from DC and Snyder himself in the preceding months and during the course of the story itself,even it's name evokes a classic (also terrible) Joker story.

As for this interview I respect Snyder as a person but when he goes on about his boldest,most ambitious story I cant help but feel as if he's just making a fool out of us all,he just said the EXACT SAME THING ABOUT DOTF.Come one man,atleast show some subtlety.

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InnerVenom123

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@weenman1 said:

" The Joker not only doesn't want to be killed by him [ Batman ] but at the same time, doesn't want to put Batman in a place where that is the option he goes for, as much as he says it would make him happy." -Scott Snyder

This statement just seems wrong. The Joker's power comes from the idea that he has no fear of death. To truly stand toe to toe with a nemesis like Batman the Joker can't just pretend he doesn't fear it. Is Snyder implying that the Joker is only feigning insanity? If that's true they he can never defeat Batman. I just don't think Snyder has a grasp on the Joker's true state of mind. I do like the idea that he loves Batman but his insanity should be what causes him to misinterpret the code that Batman stands for as a form of love.

Other writers have suggested that Joker's faking insanity.

Really it doesn't matter, neither are correct.

He's super-sane.

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JonesDeini

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Edited By JonesDeini

@noj said:

@DeadPan: Im not even going to bother commenting on the rest of your rant but Batman Inc DOES take place in the current DC universe. Batman and Robin has referenced the bounty on Robin and the latest Batman and Robin solicit specifically mentions that it will be dealing with fallout from Batman Incorporated.

Plus in Inc. #1 Damian killing NoBody is referenced explicitly.

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mcuirizd

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Edited By mcuirizd

Great words, great saga.

Good time for be a Batman fan...

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nappystr8

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@entropy_aegis said:

DOTF is one big gimmick,the storyline in total lasted about 23 issues in the last 5 months, I dont even wanna mention all the hype from DC and Snyder himself in the preceding months and during the course of the story itself,even it's name evokes a classic (also terrible) Joker story.

I won't deny that all of the crossover issues involved with this story arc have been terrible. But it is very evident from reading the main arc that Snyder's story did not mandate the inclusion of the other books. He never once mentions anything that happens in those crossover titles. Rather, someone at editorial decided that like with Court of Owls: Snyder is popular enough that they can turn what is really just an intimate character driven story into a massive money making event. I feel like Scott Snyder delivered on the Death of the Family he promised (although more figuratively than many of us might have expected). Whatever happened on the marketing end or in the other books is not blood on his hands.

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entropy_aegis

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Edited By entropy_aegis

@nappystr8 said:

@entropy_aegis said:

DOTF is one big gimmick,the storyline in total lasted about 23 issues in the last 5 months, I dont even wanna mention all the hype from DC and Snyder himself in the preceding months and during the course of the story itself,even it's name evokes a classic (also terrible) Joker story.

I won't deny that all of the crossover issues involved with this story arc have been terrible. But it is very evident from reading the main arc that Snyder's story did not mandate the inclusion of the other books. He never once mentions anything that happens in those crossover titles. Rather, someone at editorial decided that like with Court of Owls: Snyder is popular enough that they can turn what is really just an intimate character driven story into a massive money making event. I feel like Scott Snyder delivered on the Death of the Family he promised (although more figuratively than many of us might have expected). Whatever happened on the marketing end or in the other books is not blood on his hands.

I'd say the Batman & Robin crossovers were pretty good.I will not blame Snyder 100% on the inclusion of other books but there is some fault on his part on this as well.He could've protested against this decision,also now that I think about it the story would actually become more stupid without the crossovers(Joker capturing all of Batman's allies).It's a rehashed character driven event,the only interesting angle Snyder added to the Batman/Joker relationship(King/Jester) was never properly followed upon,he was using the exact same things that we've seen before.

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DocFishstick

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Edited By DocFishstick

i really liked Death of the Family. it was a great batman story and i think scott did a good job. i wish it would have went just a little darker but i see why he did not go that far with the story. i hope the next story is even better.

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@Omega-Man : I agree with you. I don't think the Batfamily will be permanently harmed, physically or psychologically after this event. This story over all was a little above average for me. I say a little above because there were parts of the story where I thought Joker was genuinely creepy, and Joker hasn't been written that way in a while.

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Suprman

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Edited By Suprman

@entropy_aegis said:

I'd say the Batman & Robin crossovers were pretty good.I will not blame Snyder 100% on the inclusion of other books but there is some fault on his part on this as well.He could've protested against this decision,also now that I think about it the story would actually become more stupid without the crossovers(Joker capturing all of Batman's allies).It's a rehashed character driven event,the only interesting angle Snyder added to the Batman/Joker relationship(King/Jester) was never properly followed upon,he was using the exact same things that we've seen before.

I agree with the King/Jester relationship angle that was never explored and why not? It's an awesome idea! However I also liked how Joker claims that no matter what Batman does Joker will always win. I also thought the Nightwing Tie-ins were pretty good. Overall I think this was just an average Joker story and didn't really need the crossovers.

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QuantomMan

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Edited By QuantomMan

This was such a great run, thanks for the interview with Snyder CV!!!

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slade_wilson

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Edited By slade_wilson

@cbishop: He teaches writing at Columbia.

I want another Hush story soooo badly! I think he is Batman's second best/most challenging villain.

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Portimion

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Edited By Portimion

Oh Gawd. just finished reading issue #17 i can't even deal.

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AustinHasten

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More ambitious than what they've done so far? Holy poop.

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yo_yo_fun

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Edited By yo_yo_fun

Death of the Family was a great run & issue #17 was fantastic!

This interview helps giving some more insight on Snyder's mind.

Can't wait to see what he has up his sleeve!

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TheHulk

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Edited By TheHulk

Hulk no like Joker's hideously disfigured face. Hulk wished they just kept him looking like normal person with clown face.

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@DeadPan: @DeadPan said:

Gonna get ripped apart but here we go:

For all of Snyders talk of this being a Joker story up there with Killing Joke nothing actually happened in the arc. Yes we see that Batman came close to killing him, but this has been explored before and not as heavy handed as this. Story went no-where in the end. Nothing has really changed. I personally feel that Synder should step off the book to give someone else a chance. He has great ideas but is not a good enough writer to pull it off.

It really does say a lot about DC at the moment, and none of it good, if even in the biggest, most-hyped storylines that they're running, nothing significant or dramatic can actually change. It further emphasises the point that all they want are a set of comics being churned out each months with a batch of characters in a carefully-set status quo, one that can never be tampered with too much because it might damage whatever the hell they're trying to do with the properties in other media.

Compare this with Batman Inc - which, let's face it, in no way exists in the DC Universe now - where at the end of issue #7 I was genuinely shitting myself for fear of what might be about to happen in #8.

I'm just pissed off pretty wholesale at DC at the moment. This stuff, the Orson Scott Card bollocks (hey! Let's put out a Superman book that might actually look and feel like a Superman book that Superman fans would want to read... and then get a raging homophobe activist to write the character!), and the fact that recently, I've been re-reading some of the stuff that was going on just before Flashpoint (specifically the later Supergirl run, when like many characters she was being passed around a handful of lesser-known writers to wind down the clock), and I'm actively annoyed at the way they let the post-Crisis continuity just wind down and quietly die, without giving any of the characters and/or their long-form storylines a proper ending of any kind. That really hacks me off the more I think about it. COIE was a bigger reset, but at least they actually bothered to end most of the stories before moving on.

/rant

No rant here, man. I pretty much agree with you on every point. I cancelled all of my Dc titles two months ago, due to the underwhemlingness of the titles. Seems that DC's just throwing more and more shite against the wall, trying to find something that will stick. But it's a bad sign when even supposed guaranteed money-makers like Batman seem to be falling short now.

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Edited By Mistah_B

I really liked most of the crossovers except for Teen Titans, RHATO and Catwoman. Nightwing, Suicide Squad, Detective Comics, Batgirl and B&R I enjoyed the most.

I thought DOTF in Batman was fantastic and wasn't let down at all, I was relieved once it set in that Alfred would survive. One of my fav moments from 17 is when Batman whispers Joker's identity to him. Also when he explains about when he once visited Joker in Arkham, that Joker looked right at him but didn't "see" him and Bruce knew that Joker never cared who he actually was. Joker's dialogue throughout was a blast, burning horses, TWO FACE AND RIDDLER !!!, Arkham Asylum itself, the damn two headed lion cub. the list goes on. my biggest peeve i guess was the Die Cut Mask covers, I wanted the original solicitation art and the mask covers should've been variants.

I appreciate Snyder being both open and thorough in his explanations. I effing love Snyder/Capullo Batman.

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