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Have We Seen The End of Talia al Ghul?

Is the character at the end of BATMAN INCORPORATED: LEVIATHAN STRIKES really Talia al Ghul?

Grant Morrison is known to be a master of turning things on their head, particularly when it comes to some of our most beloved characters. For him, the DC Universe and its properties are his giant play pen, and he can do with them virtually what he wants. Or so it seems. So what is Morrison planning to do with Batman next?

About a week ago DC Comics announced that they would begin publishing what they called the "Second Wave" of "The New 52." Essentially, books that were not doing as well in sales would be swapped out for new titles starting May, 2012. The announcement also listed some of the upcoming new books the publisher is planning to release, including the highly anticipated return of Grant Morrison's BATMAN, INC.

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Since Morrison's BATMAN, INC. went on hiatus late last year, Bat fans have been waiting for news of when Morrison would return to finish his story. It's no wonder, either, since the man left so many questions about the Bat family and the future of the character unanswered. This May, Morrison will return to BATMAN, INC. So with that in mind, we decided to look at where he last left The Dark Knight.

After reading through BATMAN INCORPORATED: LEVIATHAN STRIKES I am beginning to think Morrison has more twists and turns up his sleeve than any of us are expecting, and one of those major twists will involve Batman's old flame, Talia al Ghul. If you have not yet read BATMAN INCORPORATED: LEVIATHAN STRIKES you may want to do so before you read any further.

== TEASER ==

Talia al Ghul is a very unique character. Since we first met her, Talia has struggled to find the balance between the two men in her life: her allegiance to her father and her undying love for Bruce Wayne. Through everything, no matter how often she disagrees with Bruce, she continued to demonstrate her love for him. Which is why her final appearance in BATMAN INCORPORATED: LEVIATHAN STRIKES seems so out of character for her.

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At the end of that story we find out that Talia is "Leviathan," that she is and has been the force in opposition to Bruce and that she has built herself an army that would rival her father's League. Taking on the name "leviathan," which is defined as a one of the seven demons of hell, in Demonology. There are references made to Leviathan in the Torah, in Ancient Middle Eastern lore and in Christianity. The thing is, Talia has never referred to herself as "The Demon Head." So is this really Talia al Ghul?

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During Morrison's run on Batman we witnessed the 'Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul' crossover event. During that story a wounded and decrepit Ra's al Ghul captured Damian and plotted to transfer his soul into Damian's body; essentially using Damian as a vessel. Now, Ra's can't transfer into any body, only that of a relative. This is why Damian would have been such a good choice. During this story both Batman and Talia teamed up in order to save Damian from that fate, and Ra's was forced to transfer into his son, The White Ghost. However, Ra's was dissatisfied with the White Ghost as a host. Could it be that this was a temporary solution for Ra's until he found a more suitable host?

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Looking at the language in those last few pages of BATMAN: LEVIATHAN one thing is certain, this did not sound like Talia. Bragging about her power and the countless assassins she has under her command certainly does not sound like the Talia al Ghul who had always worked under her father. Based on the language, Talia sounds a lot like Ra's al Ghul. The fact that Talia refers to Batman as "Detective" only serves to reinforce this theory. It would make sense that Ra's would be going after Batman and placing a bounty on Damian's head since Batman did, after all, "take something from" Ra's; namely, Damian. Ra's plans from the start of the resurrection crossover was to use Damian as a vessel.

Could it be that Ra's transferred into Talia, albeit temporarily? If so, this wouldn't be the first time. In an episode of 'Batman Beyond' titled 'Out of the Past,' Ra's transfers his soul into Talia. Kind of creepy, right? Do you think this is plausible? Are you looking forward to BATMAN, INC.?

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THEBlaqueBasterd

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Edited By THEBlaqueBasterd

@Babs: lool..dude chill out, besides.. i thought her "deductive skills" were pretty stellar on this one :|

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Doctor!!!!!

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Edited By Doctor!!!!!

No, she only rise... I'm sorry I had to do that!

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Mr_Wayne69

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Edited By Mr_Wayne69

Either way it'll be good storytelling.

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Queso6p4

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Edited By Queso6p4

Yeah, this seemed really out of character for Talia as well but I look forward to seeing what happens.

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Sammo21

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Edited By Sammo21

In traditional Christianity (and the Old Testament/Torah) Leviathan isn't a demon but a large sea dwelling serpent or creature.

I like Grant Morrisson when he isn't working with established characters and franchises. We3, great. Joe the Barbarian, great. Batman...no thanks...not even a little bit.

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battyfan1

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Edited By battyfan1

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@MotYrreb said:
I've about had it with Morrison's poor writing and the art in this book is even worse...cartoony. Please, Morrison, Go find SOMETHING to do at Marvel.
No. I really don't like this development, at all, but I trust Morrison more than any other writer, because he's a genius, so I'm willing to reserve judgement until the series is over. There's got to be something amiss, because Morrison wouldn't just have Talia be evil; that's far too simple for him. Not to mention that she's just not a threat to the Bat-family, regardless of what colourful assassins are under her employ.

HA!!!!!

the best thing morrison did for Talia is make her relevant and interesting ....which is hard to do...

Morrison is awesome and has the best story arcs. period.......DC is lucky to have him...

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Daveyo520

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Edited By Daveyo520

No, we have not.

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entropy_aegis

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Edited By entropy_aegis

@MotYrreb said:

I've about had it with Morrison's poor writing and the art in this book is even worse...cartoony. Please, Morrison, Go find SOMETHING to do at Marvel.

Then DC loses then only writer worth a damn right now.

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FadeToBlackBolt

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Edited By FadeToBlackBolt
@MotYrreb said:
I've about had it with Morrison's poor writing and the art in this book is even worse...cartoony. Please, Morrison, Go find SOMETHING to do at Marvel.
No.  
 
 
I really don't like this development, at all, but I trust Morrison  more than any other writer, because he's a genius, so I'm willing to reserve judgement until the series is over. There's got to be something amiss, because Morrison wouldn't just have Talia be evil; that's far too simple for him. Not to mention that she's just not a threat to the Bat-family, regardless of what colourful assassins are under her employ. 
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MotYrreb

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Edited By MotYrreb

I've about had it with Morrison's poor writing and the art in this book is even worse...cartoony. Please, Morrison, Go find SOMETHING to do at Marvel.

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Wattup

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Edited By Wattup

I like Grant Morrison. 8 )

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cuddles666

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Edited By cuddles666

I hope it's Pyg.

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daredevil21134

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Edited By daredevil21134

@ReVamp said:

I know a RainEffect bait when I see one.

Rainy, get yo ass down here.

Seconded

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Miss_Garrick

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Edited By Miss_Garrick

Lame!

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cosmo111687

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Edited By cosmo111687

@wxjunkie said:

I for one am glad you spoiled it. I started reading Inc and hated it. Now I don't have to read Leviathan Strikes hoping for something good to come out of the Inc stories. Great concept but poorly executed.

*rolls eyes

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cosmo111687

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Edited By cosmo111687

@battyfan1 said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@CitizenBane said:

YES DIE TALIA DIE

LOL

ahahahahaha.......she was and still is a BORING female character.........now that she is Leviathan she is interesting now....kinda.....

but people she is IN CHARACTER........there is nothing new about this talia and the one before......

p.s.

YAY morrison

Poor Raineffect, when he sees this...

Oh, I was just thinking that the remaining letters (the ones you remove after capitalizing the letters for her name) might have meaning behind them. They probably don't, but I thought I should put that out there in case if somebody else can make a connection to them. :)

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battyfan1

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Edited By battyfan1

@entropy_aegis said:

@CitizenBane said:

YES DIE TALIA DIE

LOL

ahahahahaha.......she was and still is a BORING female character.........now that she is Leviathan she is interesting now....kinda.....

but people she is IN CHARACTER........there is nothing new about this talia and the one before......

p.s.

YAY morrison

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hulkmakedoodoo

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Edited By hulkmakedoodoo

HULK LIKE TO SEE TALIA'S END!!! REAR END!!! BWAHAHAHA!!!

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wxjunkie

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Edited By wxjunkie

I for one am glad you spoiled it. I started reading Inc and hated it. Now I don't have to read Leviathan Strikes hoping for something good to come out of the Inc stories. Great concept but poorly executed.

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No_Name_

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Edited By No_Name_

@cosmo111687 said:

I generally agree with you, Babs. I think that Talia probably is Ra's. All the clues point to it. Her change in behavior, the fact that she calls him Detective, how the name Leviathan could be a coded reference to The Demon Head.

Also, an additional point of interest that may or may not have any significance, is that if you remove Talia's name from Leviathan, letter by letter, you are left with four letters - "EVHN". I don't know what significance "EVHN" has, but it clearly has some since "four letters" is emphasized in Talia's speech bubble, hinting at something bigger (maybe an acronym for something?).

LEVIATHAN -> The four letters I want to remove are lowercase -> LevIAThAn -> Remove letters that aren't capitalized LIATA -> rearrange to get TALIA

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entropy_aegis

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Edited By entropy_aegis

@WildValentine said:

I personally think that anyone who admits to not liking a character in an interview should not be writing them. That'd be like if I was hired to write Superman, I'd intentionally DESTROY his character!

He claimed that he does'nt like Ra's because he felt the character is overused(he's correct),he's only written him in like 2 issues of an editorially mandated crossover and gave him the ability to transfer his soul via magic technique.

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HombreMan

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Edited By HombreMan

@InnerVenom123: Actually, Both Morrison and the Batman Beyond staff take the idea form H.P. Lovecraft's "The Thing On The Doorstep" where an evil alchemist swaps his old and decaying body with his daughter's.

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katanalauncher

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Edited By katanalauncher

@Babs said:

@katanalauncher said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

@katanalauncher said:

Way to put a spoiler in the title Babs, not everyone is caught up with Batman.

She clearly says in the article before any spoiler-y details regarding Talia are given

If you have not yet read BATMAN INCORPORATED: LEVIATHAN STRIKES you may want to do so before you read any further.

Yes, because clearly I could have avoided a suggestive spoiler on the main page of the website

I didn't spoil anything with that title. I was teasing my theory. Doesn't mean it has happened.

That's why it's called suggestive spoiler Babs.

It's not just you, it's a trend I see a lot on this site.

It's especially painful for those of us who know the characters but isn't caught up with the story.

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Eyz

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Edited By Eyz

Like father, like daughter... They seem to always come back whenever..

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KRYPTON

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Edited By KRYPTON

It is so weird that Bruce's wife/ex-wife/mother of his only child is a super villain.

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InnerVenom123

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Edited By InnerVenom123

@CitizenBane said:

YES DIE TALIA DIE

So much Rain-bait in this thread. So much.

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Teerack

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Edited By Teerack

If we've learned anything from batman it's that you can't keep a Al Ghul down.

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WildValentine

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Edited By WildValentine

I personally think that anyone who admits to not liking a character in an interview should not be writing them. That'd be like if I was hired to write Superman, I'd intentionally DESTROY his character!

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cosmo111687

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Edited By cosmo111687

I generally agree with you, Babs. I think that Talia probably is Ra's. All the clues point to it. Her change in behavior, the fact that she calls him Detective, how the name Leviathan could be a coded reference to The Demon Head.

Also, an additional point of interest that may or may not have any significance, is that if you remove Talia's name from Leviathan, letter by letter, you are left with four letters - "EVHN". I don't know what significance "EVHN" has, but it clearly has some since "four letters" is emphasized in Talia's speech bubble, hinting at something bigger (maybe an acronym for something?).

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No_Name_

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Edited By No_Name_

@katanalauncher said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

@katanalauncher said:

Way to put a spoiler in the title Babs, not everyone is caught up with Batman.

She clearly says in the article before any spoiler-y details regarding Talia are given

If you have not yet read BATMAN INCORPORATED: LEVIATHAN STRIKES you may want to do so before you read any further.

Yes, because clearly I could have avoided a suggestive spoiler on the main page of the website

I didn't spoil anything with that title. I was teasing my theory. Doesn't mean it has happened.

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The Mast

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Edited By The Mast

I hadn't read this yet due to being super busy and all over the place with work.

What is with this site and spoilers in the titles? "Is the woman at the end of Batman: Leviathan Strikes, Talia?" is a spoiler. Don't warn us in the article when it's already ruined. Shoddy.

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CrimsonTempest

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Edited By CrimsonTempest
@fivestarga said:
I think Batman should just bite the bullit and wed Talia. If I were him, and presented with the opportunity to really have a positive effect on the world by reducing the amount of criminals through assasination...I'd be all for it. Plus, they'd have an amazing child.
They already have. Meet Damian Wayne.
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vandinejd_1991

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Edited By vandinejd_1991

I totally agree although I doubt he will since the episode is over 10 years old now and Timm hasn't done anything in years.

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BatClaw89

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Edited By BatClaw89

  

  Babs must have seen the Batman Beyond cartoon last night on the Hub.
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TheBlueAngel93

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Edited By TheBlueAngel93

I like the idea of Ra's controlling Talia, sounds like something sick he would do to further his goals. Plus I agree that everything from those few panels do sound like "Talia" is holding a grudge against Bruce, which Ra's has plenty of things to fit that bill.

Either way, I do hope Talia ends up joining Bruce's side again as I honestly believe she's his best chance at a possibly lasting relationship.

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entropy_aegis

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Edited By entropy_aegis

@CitizenBane said:

YES DIE TALIA DIE

LOL

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fivestarga

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Edited By fivestarga

I think Batman should just bite the bullit and wed Talia. If I were him, and presented with the opportunity to really have a positive effect on the world by reducing the amount of criminals through assasination...I'd be all for it. Plus, they'd have an amazing child.

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Saren

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Edited By Saren

YES DIE TALIA DIE

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sj_esposito

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Edited By sj_esposito

I don't know... I think there's merit to this theory. I found it to be really out of character as well. I'm looking forward to Batman, Inc. if only because I'm dying to see where Morrison is taking the story and how he's going to finish it off -- it's sure as hell been long enough. I personally think Damian is going to be killed off by the end of this whole thing, but I'm just speculating.

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RedheadedAtrocitus

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Considering its Grant Morrison I say just about anything is possible with regard to the Batman and Ra's. It would be creepy as all hell though if he transferred his essence into Talia for the story though, but hardly surprising.

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RedOwl_1

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Edited By RedOwl_1

Didn't in the same Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul said that Talia can't be the host? Don't he said the host had to be male and of his blood?

Also a bit confused because the title of Leviathan Strikes said "before flashpoint" and so this series will be before that too, right? or is like the others? :S Confused

@Billy Batson said:

BB

LOL :D, no problem anyway, I hate Talia but poor Dami :'(

PD: Oh and I loved the Batman Beyond episode though it scared me a bit, you have no idea of how much I laughed at "Batman: the musical" was like it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0urb6lU-FkI

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katanalauncher

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Edited By katanalauncher

@The Dark Huntress said:

@katanalauncher said:

Way to put a spoiler in the title Babs, not everyone is caught up with Batman.

She clearly says in the article before any spoiler-y details regarding Talia are given

If you have not yet read BATMAN INCORPORATED: LEVIATHAN STRIKES you may want to do so before you read any further.

Yes, because clearly I could have avoided a suggestive spoiler on the main page of the website

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battyfan1

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Edited By battyfan1

better question is does anyone care?

i love grant's run.....and Talia is actually very much in character....have people been reading about her appearances in the bat books over the years?

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BatUniverse

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Edited By BatUniverse

Absolutelly awesome, of course I'm going to follow this one, but I feel a little sad for Talia.

Sniff, Sniff.

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Mercy_

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Edited By Mercy_

@katanalauncher said:

Way to put a spoiler in the title Babs, not everyone is caught up with Batman.

She clearly says in the article before any spoiler-y details regarding Talia are given

If you have not yet read BATMAN INCORPORATED: LEVIATHAN STRIKES you may want to do so before you read any further.

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entropy_aegis

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Edited By entropy_aegis

Suddenly changed her character? lol wut? she's been like this ever since Death and Maidens which was published after Hush and was written by Rucka.Morrison just improved on it,cause Rucka made her Nyssa's slave.

And no I don't think Ra's is possessing her,Morrison does'nt use cheap plot twists like Jeph Loeb.

I think Talia will eventually reform and die,and the guilt of what she was and why she did what she did will fall upon the men around (Batman,Ra's maybe others like Bane,Lex etc.)

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katanalauncher

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Edited By katanalauncher

Way to put a spoiler in the title Babs, not everyone is caught up with Batman.

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Wolverine0628

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Edited By Wolverine0628

I've seen that Batman Beyond episode. It was creepy. But that might be a better solution than if Talia has actually turned on Batman and possibly her own son. I'm a really big Talia fan, so I hope she hasn't suddenly changed her character.

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BransonHuggins

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Edited By BransonHuggins

Wow a lot of hate for Morisson. I don't get it either. I mean yes, he has changed a lot of things, but come on, it's good. Then again that's just my opinion, and all of you so OBVIOUSLY have yours.

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acomicbooklook

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Edited By acomicbooklook

The answer to the question is NO. And I love that two-part episode of Batman:Animated Series, Like a few have said, This is Comic Books, you never see the end of a character (except uncle Ben).

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