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Grant Morrison Reveals the Secrets of Batman & Robin Covers

What is the significance of the satanic imagery in Grant Morrison's Batman & Robin run?

Batman and Robin #15
Batman and Robin #15

Most comics are easy enough to follow that if they're released monthly or bi-monthly you (the reader) still have a general idea of what the heck is going on. Grant Morrison's Batman run, however, is not one of those books. If you didn't pick up every issue in that series and didn't understand what the heck was going on--you're probably not alone. With Morrison, you have to not only read every single issue, but also look to the history of Batman comics to get all his references. The editors at DC Comics know this, and have since begun releasing hardcover volumes collecting the individual issues of that series, which include more than just the collected issues, but also insightful creator commentary as well. The most recent is Batman and Robin: The Deluxe Edition- Batman Must Die! (released May 11th, 2011) which compiles issues 13-16 as well as Batman: The Return #1.

While many of us are still waiting for an omnibus edition combining the series in its entirety, I'm almost tempted to drop the $25 dollars on this hardcover for Grant Morrison's commentary. Here's why this particular trade is so enticing.

== TEASER ==
Detective Comics #38
Detective Comics #38

At first reading, Morrison's Batman & Robin run appears to be a giant puddle of imagery and metaphors meant to confuse you. While you may know what you're reading is amazing, you may not quite know what you're reading. That's why Morrison's commentary really enhances the experience, even if you own the individual issues.

When I first read Morrison's Batman, I recall being completely hung up on all of the satanic imagery connected to Dr. Simon Hurt's character-- something I only found out later was purposely done by Morrison to lead the reader down the wrong path. Yeah, I fell for it. Morrison explains this in his explanation of the imagery on the cover of issue #15 of Batman and Robin.

This cover was intended as a kind of Satanic reverse of the famous panel from DETECTIVE COMICS #38 published in 1940, where Batman solemnly inducts the young Robin into the crime-fighting fraternity.

Here the figures are flipped around, with left hands raised instead of right hands and a candelabra designed to hint at a trident or pitchfork shape, suggestive of the Devil. A huge, inverted cross appeared in the original drawing as an homage to the imagery of late ’60s and early ’70s “Devil” pictures such as Rosemary’s Baby, The Exorcist and The Omen, but this was considered to be too “on-the-nose” and was dropped from the final version.

Now that the story is complete, it's much easier to reflect on what we've read--and I admit, the commentary lets me read the arc again in a slightly different light.

Did you think that Dr. Hurt was Satan at the time? What about the run - did you like or not like, get or not get, and do you think that the new commentary will get you to pick up this trade?

No Caption Provided

via The Source

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daredevil21134

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@JonesDeini said:
LMAO was this not obvious to anybody with eyes? He's infused occult imagery in every one of his Batman works to date. Hell, that's all Arkham Asylum really was. 

I LOVE how ambitious Morrison is as a writer, but he always gets so lost in his own mind. And more often than not thinks he's being more clever than he actually is. But the pretension and pseudo philosophical stuff comes with the territory, so I learned to take it in stride. Morrison created and continues to perpetuate The "Batgod". And I feel that this characterization's the worse thing to happen of the character since everybody decided to copy Miller's DKR and go all gritty and brooding. I admire his knowledge of Batman lore but really didn't like the silver age characters he kept trying to shove down my throat his run would've been vastly superior minus the international Batmen and their lame ass villains. They especially ruined Batman R.I.P. Seriously, man, you don't have to tie up every loose end that's ever occurred in the history of the character ever. You actually end up creating more continuity issues that way. I also feel that Batman was the wrong character for him to get all meta with, though I do like the way he handles the joker. I hated Damian Wayne and he more or less signifies all that went wrong in Morrison's run for me. I hated the way he wrote Dick in the first 8/9 Issues of B&R. Batman Inc. is so opposite of how Bruce thinks and acts even after his grand "Revelation" at the end of ROBW. By the way, Grant, that revelation wasn't anything new. We've known it for years, Bruce's known it for years...having him say it really felt wrong to me. When you really analyze Final Crisis/ROBW you can't help but notice the huge, huge plothole at the center of it all. Why would Darkseid bother with such a needlessly elaborate plan? If could could foresee his death at the hands of Bruce why not oh...kill him in the past with a beam from the future (since apparently he had this kind of power) or destroy the world by using one of his followers as an omega bomb? And don't give me that "He chose Batman because of his extreme will to live and survival skills/instincts" crap. Why bother with the Thomas Wayne/Simon Hurt thing at all?  
WOW am I actually seeing someone criticise Grant Morrison's writing,HOLY CRAP I am SHOCKED but I agree with you for the most part
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Edited By JonesDeini
@daredevil21134 said:
@JonesDeini said:
LMAO was this not obvious to anybody with eyes? He's infused occult imagery in every one of his Batman works to date. Hell, that's all Arkham Asylum really was. 

I LOVE how ambitious Morrison is as a writer, but he always gets so lost in his own mind. And more often than not thinks he's being more clever than he actually is. But the pretension and pseudo philosophical stuff comes with the territory, so I learned to take it in stride. Morrison created and continues to perpetuate The "Batgod". And I feel that this characterization's the worse thing to happen of the character since everybody decided to copy Miller's DKR and go all gritty and brooding. I admire his knowledge of Batman lore but really didn't like the silver age characters he kept trying to shove down my throat his run would've been vastly superior minus the international Batmen and their lame ass villains. They especially ruined Batman R.I.P. Seriously, man, you don't have to tie up every loose end that's ever occurred in the history of the character ever. You actually end up creating more continuity issues that way. I also feel that Batman was the wrong character for him to get all meta with, though I do like the way he handles the joker. I hated Damian Wayne and he more or less signifies all that went wrong in Morrison's run for me. I hated the way he wrote Dick in the first 8/9 Issues of B&R. Batman Inc. is so opposite of how Bruce thinks and acts even after his grand "Revelation" at the end of ROBW. By the way, Grant, that revelation wasn't anything new. We've known it for years, Bruce's known it for years...having him say it really felt wrong to me. When you really analyze Final Crisis/ROBW you can't help but notice the huge, huge plothole at the center of it all. Why would Darkseid bother with such a needlessly elaborate plan? If could could foresee his death at the hands of Bruce why not oh...kill him in the past with a beam from the future (since apparently he had this kind of power) or destroy the world by using one of his followers as an omega bomb? And don't give me that "He chose Batman because of his extreme will to live and survival skills/instincts" crap. Why bother with the Thomas Wayne/Simon Hurt thing at all?  
WOW am I actually seeing someone criticise Grant Morrison's writing,HOLY CRAP I am SHOCKED but I agree with you for the most part
Yeah apparently it's a cardinal sin for any serious, sophisticated, and discerning reader to do so. Oh well guess I'm an idiot  who just can't rise above my mundane super hero tropes, and wish to forever impede Batman's evolution and the medium at large....I've long ago resigned to burn in comic hell for my views. 
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daredevil21134

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Edited By daredevil21134
@JonesDeini: I agree with you though
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JonesDeini

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Edited By JonesDeini
@daredevil21134
Thanks, it's not that I dislike the guy, really, I love the guy in fact, he's just frustrated me since his JLA run. I still enjoy the odd work of his these days, but I refuse to act like I'm blind to the flaws in his work. I hold all my favorite writers to the same standards as any other, if anything I expect more of them. I'm all for fandom, but I refuse to be a fan boy. 
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Edited By daredevil21134
@JonesDeini said:
@daredevil21134
Thanks, it's not that I dislike the guy, really, I love the guy in fact, he's just frustrated me since his JLA run. I still enjoy the odd work of his these days, but I refuse to act like I'm blind to the flaws in his work. I hold all my favorite writers to the same standards as any other, if anything I expect more of them. I'm all for fandom, but I refuse to be a fan boy. 
I respect that bro
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CrimsonInuTears

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Edited By CrimsonInuTears

Did they ever explain exactly why they removed the cross from the comic print? An is it actually in the trade?

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@JonesDeini said:
@BlueStarr86 said:
@Obi Wan Kenobi! said:
AMEN!

Glad I'm not the only one that thinks Morison's approach seems pretentious at times.  I remember reading Batman R.I.P. and hating  a lot of it.  It wasn't because I didn't understand it or I didn't find a deeper meaning to all of it, it was because  he made everything so damn needlessly complicated.     
I try not using the word pretentious, in general, but it does fit Morrison, and many of his fans. What's most vexing is that some of them seem convinced that this has never been done before, or at least that's how they behave, I've become convinced many of them live under rocks.
I don't like to make blanket statements but many Grant Morrison fan(atics) are generally quick to disregard any valid criticism you have of his work then dismiss you as either being 1) Too dumb to get it or 2) A blind hater who's spouting piss and vinegar because of 1. I generally avoid discussion/debate with people like this on any topic, but especially when it comes to Morrison's work. It's like talking to a wrestling fan who knows it's not real but refuses to admit it.  

I agree with all 3 of you. I have never liked Morrison's approach to writing because he likes to "skip around" on his panels and leave way to much for the reader to assume he knows what Morrion is thinking.
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Mach

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Hey guy let's not look for devils where are none that is how parents groups get started :) lol
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Oh man, I've unfortunatally been really strapped for cash lately so I haven't touched a comic book in a while. I think I'll pick up this new hardcover. I haven't read any of the new Batman and Robin comcis.
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I mean is Darkseid really that different from Satan?


I know hurt isn't "Darkseid", but he was empowered by him.
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@Dracade102 said:
The upside down cross was a dead giveaway for me...
Agreed
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@Babs
Sorry, it was a lot funnier in my head! Here's my line of thought:

 

1) On one of the podcasts, you mentioned how cool Andy Samberg is, and I hadn't seen his hilarious videos 'til then. Then on the season finale of SNL, we get this gem and I just ASSUMED he must have something to do with making it.

2) Kind of embarrassing now, but after seeing all the comic vine news segments, Lady Gaga's gestures kind of reminded me of yours --- put DOWN that gun, I meant from the rap you guys recorded where you "off" Starfire (I think Comicvine STILL demands a sequel, BTW).

 

Therefore, either...

A) Lady Gaga watches the Comicvine news or...

B) YOU are Lady Gaga in the video! Very possible under all her eyemakeup...

 

Or maybe C) Cervantes is hallucinating. But I think we all know the truth. :)

 

Here's another look:

 

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live//video/Digital-Short-3-Way-The-Golden-Rule/1329178    

 

 

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@Sydpart2 said:
this article really needs to be edited
desperately XD
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@Dracade102 said:
The upside down cross was a dead giveaway for me...

mmhmm same here

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@JonesDeini said:

@daredevil21134 said:

@JonesDeini said:
LMAO was this not obvious to anybody with eyes? He's infused occult imagery in every one of his Batman works to date. Hell, that's all Arkham Asylum really was. 

I LOVE how ambitious Morrison is as a writer, but he always gets so lost in his own mind. And more often than not thinks he's being more clever than he actually is. But the pretension and pseudo philosophical stuff comes with the territory, so I learned to take it in stride. Morrison created and continues to perpetuate The "Batgod". And I feel that this characterization's the worse thing to happen of the character since everybody decided to copy Miller's DKR and go all gritty and brooding. I admire his knowledge of Batman lore but really didn't like the silver age characters he kept trying to shove down my throat his run would've been vastly superior minus the international Batmen and their lame ass villains. They especially ruined Batman R.I.P. Seriously, man, you don't have to tie up every loose end that's ever occurred in the history of the character ever. You actually end up creating more continuity issues that way. I also feel that Batman was the wrong character for him to get all meta with, though I do like the way he handles the joker. I hated Damian Wayne and he more or less signifies all that went wrong in Morrison's run for me. I hated the way he wrote Dick in the first 8/9 Issues of B&R. Batman Inc. is so opposite of how Bruce thinks and acts even after his grand "Revelation" at the end of ROBW. By the way, Grant, that revelation wasn't anything new. We've known it for years, Bruce's known it for years...having him say it really felt wrong to me. When you really analyze Final Crisis/ROBW you can't help but notice the huge, huge plothole at the center of it all. Why would Darkseid bother with such a needlessly elaborate plan? If could could foresee his death at the hands of Bruce why not oh...kill him in the past with a beam from the future (since apparently he had this kind of power) or destroy the world by using one of his followers as an omega bomb? And don't give me that "He chose Batman because of his extreme will to live and survival skills/instincts" crap. Why bother with the Thomas Wayne/Simon Hurt thing at all?  
WOW am I actually seeing someone criticise Grant Morrison's writing,HOLY CRAP I am SHOCKED but I agree with you for the most part
Yeah apparently it's a cardinal sin for any serious, sophisticated, and discerning reader to do so. Oh well guess I'm an idiot  who just can't rise above my mundane super hero tropes, and wish to forever impede Batman's evolution and the medium at large....I've long ago resigned to burn in comic hell for my views. 
@shadow303030 said: 

@JonesDeini said: 

@BlueStarr86 said: 
@Obi Wan Kenobi! said: 
AMEN!

Glad I'm not the only one that thinks Morison's approach seems pretentious at times.  I remember reading Batman R.I.P. and hating  a lot of it.  It wasn't because I didn't understand it or I didn't find a deeper meaning to all of it, it was because  he made everything so damn needlessly complicated.     
I try not using the word pretentious, in general, but it does fit Morrison, and many of his fans. What's most vexing is that some of them seem convinced that this has never been done before, or at least that's how they behave, I've become convinced many of them live under rocks.
I don't like to make blanket statements but many Grant Morrison fan(atics) are generally quick to disregard any valid criticism you have of his work then dismiss you as either being 1) Too dumb to get it or 2) A blind hater who's spouting piss and vinegar because of 1. I generally avoid discussion/debate with people like this on any topic, but especially when it comes to Morrison's work. It's like talking to a wrestling fan who knows it's not real but refuses to admit it.  
I agree with all 3 of you. I have never liked Morrison's approach to writing because he likes to "skip around" on his panels and leave way to much for the reader to assume he knows what Morrion is thinking.
I think that some people like making blanket statements to prove points that aren't valid at all. I three and a half pages of comments I don't see even one "rabid"  Morrison fan starting a flame war because you somehow "defiled" him. I think that a lot of his fans have criticism for many different things in his work. I am a big Morrison fan and I hated his run on Batman. I'm sure others did as well. I loved his run on X-Men as I thought it was a much needed shake-up to a stale title. I'm sure that a lot of people hated it and they have every right to do so. So climb off it and stop acting like you're being "hounded" or something because your view on Grant is so different than everybody else's.
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Edited By Doctorchimp
@zombietag said:
@doctorchimp said:
@zombietag said:
@Wise Son said:
@Dracade102 said:
The upside down cross was a dead giveaway for me...
My thoughts exactly. This isn't really news to me.
im glad you guys think youre really smart, but if you read the article (and have the issue), they cut out the cross from the cover. thats the unedited image.
Hey remember when that issue came out and comicvine showed us all that unedited image with the satanic cross way way back?
no i dont... can you get me a link?
Whiskey Media continues to suck when it comes to looking for old news articles.
 
So here's something from bleeding cool around the time the comic was released. Again this was nothing new.
 
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/10/21/batman-and-robin-15-loses-satanic-cover-image/
 
Every comic site ran the same story and it made it apparent there was a satanic quality to have that Thomas Wayne imposter and Damian Robin do a ritual together. Not as genius as you think it is.

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