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Five Developments from JUSTICE LEAGUE #19

Big changes and repercussions are headed in the Justice League's direction.

As we continue to see the face of the New 52 Universe develop, you can feel a rumbling in the Justice League's corner. In the pages of JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA, we know that Amanda Waller has her own plans set in motion.

With issue 19, we're seeing some developments and repercussions that will shake things up for the team. There are also some that answer questions we may have had since the New 52 changed the DCU.

There will be some spoilers for JUSTICE LEAGUE #19 so make sure you read that to see everything else that happens.

The Batcave has a Batcave

We know Batman loves his secrets. We know he keeps things from others for their own protection. What we haven't seen before is a secret room hidden deeper in the Batcave.

When a mysterious stranger infiltrates the Batcave, the individual somehow is aware of a hidden room. The Batcave is already a well-kept secret. What could Batman possibly want to keep from others? And more importantly, how will the discovery of this by a questionable foe affect the rest of the team?

Batman Has More Secret Plans

As this person enters the secret room, we see Batman has a some plans on a bulletin board along with some files. We know Batman wouldn't keep a computer in here because then Cyborg would know what he's up to.

You have to wonder how much time Batman spends in here. Do the others know about this room? How does Batman explain to Alfred or Robin where he's at when he's missing for hours? Plus with all the missions he's on, when does he find the time. What could be in that file that gets picked up?

Batman Still has Protocols Against the League

Apparently Batman didn't learn in Tower of Babel. As the stranger gains further access to Batman's secret stash, we see several specially marked containers.

As shown on the cover (sort of) and in the issue, the Superman container does contain the Kryptonite Ring. There was some doubt whether or not the ring existed in the New 52 timeline so now we know. The bigger question here is what could Batman possibly have in the other cases to take out the rest of the team?

The Justice League Watchtower Teleporter

Another question was did the Watchtower have a teleporter? We know they heavily rely on Cyborg with his Boom Tube tech infused in him. There is the chance that relying on him could result in a wonky trip on rare occasions. What happens if Cyborg is not available? Would they be trapped in the Watchtower?

When the new Atom arrives at the Watchtower, she does so via a teleporter. We don't know when they got this or who made it. We can assume some of the original pre-New 52 tech still exists.

Batman Confronts Superman and Wonder Woman

This scene doesn't play out like we see on the cover. Superman and Wonder Woman have connected recently. Even though they've been spending time together, they haven't been public about it. But we know that Batman was aware that they were getting close. Their recent actions in this issue is going to shake things up with Amanda Waller and others.

Batman's confrontation lets them know they can't necessarily hide anything from him. He also opens their eyes to the possible repercussions of their actions. They may have been questioning what tactics they should take in trying to make the world a better place but Batman has the perspective to see the bigger picture.

Overall it looks like Batman was heavily involved in this issue. We'll have to see why the 'thief' only took the Superman case, if that's all he took. Will the rest of the League find out or do they already know that Batman is prepared for them all?

128 Comments
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Posted by FadeToBlackBolt

How anyone can read this crap is just beyond me. Johns should never be allowed to write again after this series.

Posted by fragmentmind

Could the thief be Lincoln March? Clayface? And as for the tower of babel, did that even happen? This could be the first time it did.

Edited by colonyofcells

My guess is the Secret Society of Super Villains are responsible for most of the steps against the Justice League.

Edited by Mezmero

@citizenbane said:

@mezmero said:

Has everyone completely lost their minds? The thief's hand had white skin. The Talon serum turns skin white. So what Batman villain has used the Talon formula and has Wayne DNA and retina? Thomas Wayne Jr. Why in the seven hells would Martian Manhunter go to all the trouble to imitate Bruce and not make his skin a normal pigment?

This doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense. Setting aside the fact that there are black Talons, like the one in Birds of Prey right now, who've taken the Talon serum and remained black (I mean, seriously); Thomas Wayne Jr. is almost certainly going to be restricted to the Bat-books alone, and people have cheated DNA/retina scanners in fiction a ludicrous number of times. Catwoman has cheated retina scanners.

Not that I think the thief was J'onn anyway ---- it's unlikely he'd be working for freaking Despero and it's more likely the thief is involved in some capacity with the Secret Society. It could be someone like Everyman.

See I didn't know there were black Talons but I don't read Birds of Prey. You know if Talons and The Court of Owls are being introduced in other DC books including a unique title based on a rogue agent, then why not give Snyder's awesome creation more play in the larger parts of the DC universe? Thomas Wayne Jr. has motive and knowledge of Batman's identity. I'm just saying it's more plausible than MM wearing real clothing just to steal the ring.

Posted by Saren

@mezmero said:

@citizenbane said:

@mezmero said:

Has everyone completely lost their minds? The thief's hand had white skin. The Talon serum turns skin white. So what Batman villain has used the Talon formula and has Wayne DNA and retina? Thomas Wayne Jr. Why in the seven hells would Martian Manhunter go to all the trouble to imitate Bruce and not make his skin a normal pigment?

This doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense. Setting aside the fact that there are black Talons, like the one in Birds of Prey right now, who've taken the Talon serum and remained black (I mean, seriously); Thomas Wayne Jr. is almost certainly going to be restricted to the Bat-books alone, and people have cheated DNA/retina scanners in fiction a ludicrous number of times. Catwoman has cheated retina scanners.

Not that I think the thief was J'onn anyway ---- it's unlikely he'd be working for freaking Despero and it's more likely the thief is involved in some capacity with the Secret Society. It could be someone like Everyman.

See I didn't know there were black Talons but I don't read Birds of Prey. You know if Talons and The Court of Owls are being introduced in other DC books including a unique title based on a rogue agent, then why not give Snyder's awesome creation more play in the larger parts of the DC universe? Thomas Wayne Jr. has motive and knowledge of Batman's identity. I'm just saying it's more plausible than MM wearing real clothing just to steal then ring.

They're not being introduced in other DC books. They're kept firmly in the Batbooks, which have their own private continuity for the most part. And at least the Talons have appeared in other Batbooks; Lincoln March only appeared in Batman.

Moderator
Posted by Mezmero

@mezmero said:

@citizenbane said:

@mezmero said:

Has everyone completely lost their minds? The thief's hand had white skin. The Talon serum turns skin white. So what Batman villain has used the Talon formula and has Wayne DNA and retina? Thomas Wayne Jr. Why in the seven hells would Martian Manhunter go to all the trouble to imitate Bruce and not make his skin a normal pigment?

This doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense. Setting aside the fact that there are black Talons, like the one in Birds of Prey right now, who've taken the Talon serum and remained black (I mean, seriously); Thomas Wayne Jr. is almost certainly going to be restricted to the Bat-books alone, and people have cheated DNA/retina scanners in fiction a ludicrous number of times. Catwoman has cheated retina scanners.

Not that I think the thief was J'onn anyway ---- it's unlikely he'd be working for freaking Despero and it's more likely the thief is involved in some capacity with the Secret Society. It could be someone like Everyman.

See I didn't know there were black Talons but I don't read Birds of Prey. You know if Talons and The Court of Owls are being introduced in other DC books including a unique title based on a rogue agent, then why not give Snyder's awesome creation more play in the larger parts of the DC universe? Thomas Wayne Jr. has motive and knowledge of Batman's identity. I'm just saying it's more plausible than MM wearing real clothing just to steal then ring.

They're not being introduced in other DC books. They're kept firmly in the Batbooks, which have their own private continuity for the most part. And at least the Talons have appeared in other Batbooks; Lincoln March only appeared in Batman.

I'm sorry since when is All-Star Western a Batbook?

Posted by Saren

@mezmero said:

@citizenbane said:

@mezmero said:

@citizenbane said:

@mezmero said:

Has everyone completely lost their minds? The thief's hand had white skin. The Talon serum turns skin white. So what Batman villain has used the Talon formula and has Wayne DNA and retina? Thomas Wayne Jr. Why in the seven hells would Martian Manhunter go to all the trouble to imitate Bruce and not make his skin a normal pigment?

This doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense. Setting aside the fact that there are black Talons, like the one in Birds of Prey right now, who've taken the Talon serum and remained black (I mean, seriously); Thomas Wayne Jr. is almost certainly going to be restricted to the Bat-books alone, and people have cheated DNA/retina scanners in fiction a ludicrous number of times. Catwoman has cheated retina scanners.

Not that I think the thief was J'onn anyway ---- it's unlikely he'd be working for freaking Despero and it's more likely the thief is involved in some capacity with the Secret Society. It could be someone like Everyman.

See I didn't know there were black Talons but I don't read Birds of Prey. You know if Talons and The Court of Owls are being introduced in other DC books including a unique title based on a rogue agent, then why not give Snyder's awesome creation more play in the larger parts of the DC universe? Thomas Wayne Jr. has motive and knowledge of Batman's identity. I'm just saying it's more plausible than MM wearing real clothing just to steal then ring.

They're not being introduced in other DC books. They're kept firmly in the Batbooks, which have their own private continuity for the most part. And at least the Talons have appeared in other Batbooks; Lincoln March only appeared in Batman.

I'm sorry since when is All-Star Western a Batbook?

It's not, but that issue featured Hex in Gotham. Still Bat-territory. And it was only a one-off tie-in.

Moderator
Edited by Mezmero

@citizenbane: False. Vandal Savage is shown associating with them openly in a recent issue.

Posted by Saren

@mezmero said:

@citizenbane: False. Vandal Savage is shown associating with them openly in a recent issue.

Did he associate with them openly in Gotham? If so, refer previous point; if not, fine, the Talons are currently featured in a non-Batbook that also happens to be the one book that has relatively no impact on the larger DCU.

Moderator
Posted by MityMite
  
Posted by deaditegonzo

@lvenger said:

@mia26: @deaditegonzo: You guys think DC are going for a Twilight of The Superheroes in the New 52? Someone else brought that up before and I'm not so sure DC would do that. It would involve ruining the depictions of some of their most cherished characters and if I recall the plot of that story from Moore, then an all out war leaves no one the victor. Where do they take their comics and universe from here? Reverting back to Pre Flashpoint continuity would be a betrayal of what DC claim to have done.

They just need to modify the outcome, they have shown previously that they dont mind making Superman look like an incompetent, tyrant, or Wonder Woman look like an aggressive, violent b****. DC is absolutely willing to do that, and they will get all kinds of critical acclaim for it, and Batfans will eat it up. It will likely end up a success. Though I do think the New 52 is going to change some how, maybe not a full reversion but some sort of amalgam-verse. The stories seem to imply that the New 52 U is a corruption, that it is a broken Universe due to Pandora.

Posted by Uncommon

So I wonder if Lincoln March is that batcave intruder guy.

Lincoln is Bruce's brother from the Court of owls in case anyone was wondering

Posted by Lvenger

They just need to modify the outcome, they have shown previously that they dont mind making Superman look like an incompetent, tyrant, or Wonder Woman look like an aggressive, violent b****. DC is absolutely willing to do that, and they will get all kinds of critical acclaim for it, and Batfans will eat it up. It will likely end up a success. Though I do think the New 52 is going to change some how, maybe not a full reversion but some sort of amalgam-verse. The stories seem to imply that the New 52 U is a corruption, that it is a broken Universe due to Pandora.

I'm not sure even DC would care to do that. It would irk a whole bunch of people, more than the WW/Superman romance does. I can see how a changed outcome might avoid the Twilight of the Superheroes One but if you think they're building towards this, there are rumours that with the Trinity War, the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship won't survive it. So that would mean they couldn't build to Moore's storyline. I've heard of the amalgam thing before though. More Pre Flashpoint continuity with New 52 additions. Not sure how I feel about that.

Edited by Akindoodle

@ltbrd: It came off as a generalization? Forgive me then. Didn't mean to criticize your post

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Posted by deaditegonzo

@lvenger: There is an equal or greater number of people who are happy with the Superman/WW relationship, and thats what comic book plotting is all about. Its impossible to please all fans, so you do what will please the greatest number of fans, and is shocking/extreme enough to make everyone else morbidly curious. But this is the reason clearly idiotic stories like Spectacular Spider-man sell better than the arcs before it, not to mention big status quo shaking arcs bring in more readers. Right now, the Superman and WW fans seem to be seen as the minority, leading to a "Please Batfans in anyway possible" mandate.

The Trinity War seems like a dumbed down Twilight of the Superheroes to me.

Edited by colonyofcells

Trinity War does have similarities to Civil War since JLA is a government team and JL / JL Dark both work outside of government control. After Trinity War, the next event seems similar to COIE/Final Crisis with Darkseid playing the old roles of the anti monitor and Mandrakk.

Posted by thejman251

- Their relationship being a problem makes complete sense.

- The future that was revealed in Superboy 19 should make this very evident in my opinion.

Posted by colonyofcells

Despero does have mental powers like mind control so he could easily mind control Batman, Superman, etc.

Posted by darkman61288

@deaditegonzo: It doesn't seem to have drawn in any new readers. Sales according to the charts have actually dropped since the pairing. The problem is that more old readers are leaving. Superman is dropping and reaching near his pre-Flashpoint levels. And this is not that shocking. Post-Crisis they had them date in one issue. It just a tradition to have WW and Superman date before Superman and Lois hook up.

Posted by deaditegonzo

@deaditegonzo: It doesn't seem to have drawn in any new readers. Sales according to the charts have actually dropped since the pairing. The problem is that more old readers are leaving. Superman is dropping and reaching near his pre-Flashpoint levels. And this is not that shocking. Post-Crisis they had them date in one issue. It just a tradition to have WW and Superman date before Superman and Lois hook up.

I honestly have no idea how the Superman book is performing right now vs other times in the past, nor do I know for sure what exactly is causing the fluctuations. All I can say, is what, as a reader of both Superman books, ive noticed:

1) People hate Lobdell. I have NO idea why. I love most of what he is done, but all I ever see and hear is how bad he is.
2) Perez, and now Morrison, left/are leaving Superman books. Both are HUGE in the comic business, so this is bad news for the character from a financials sense.
3) Superman is only just now getting consistency across his line, with Lobdell picking up Action Comics, however, see #1.
4) The Wonder Woman relationship has only really appeared in two or three books so far, a two Justice League issues and a Superman one, otherwise you wouldnt even know the two are dating. Azzarello has done nothing with it, in fact he is openly undermining it. Also, in Superman's self-titled book, and Action Comics, HE IS STILL JUST PINING AWAY FOR LOIS. So, i highly doubt it is driving readers away, what I could imagine happening, though, is that new readers wanting to see this Super Couple (that they heard about through the Main Stream Media) are leaving in droves as NOTHING has really happened since the kiss.
5) DC seems pretty confident in the character as they are giving him another, high profile, title while many others are getting cancelled.

Its all speculation, im not a professional analyst, and like I said, I havent watched the sales figures, I dont even know where to find said figures regularly, except when they are posted on here. All I can say, is that I believe a plotline that received such massive mainstream news coverage could draw in new readers if handled well.

Posted by darkman61288

@deaditegonzo: But it didn't get much mainstream coverage at all. Entertainment Weekly mentioned briefly on their website, but they are owned by Time Warner, DC's parent company. So it was basically a from self promotion. Match.com had Superman's and Wonder Woman profiles on it, but who is going on some else's profile unless it is suggested as their possible pairing. And finally the only news outlet that covered it on TV to my knowledge is Good Morning America and they criticized it. Plus all the debating that like you and me are doing now, is not going to help it. People get turned off from controversy.

Posted by deaditegonzo

@deaditegonzo: But it didn't get much mainstream coverage at all. Entertainment Weekly mentioned briefly on their website, but they are owned by Time Warner, DC's parent company. So it was basically a from self promotion. Match.com had Superman's and Wonder Woman profiles on it, but who is going on some else's profile unless it is suggested as their possible pairing. And finally the only news outlet that covered it on TV to my knowledge is Good Morning America and they criticized it. Plus all the debating that like you and me are doing now, is not going to help it. People get turned off from controversy.

Umm, you forgot Yahoo News, USA Today, ABC News, NPR, shoot, just type "Superman Wonder Woman News" into Google. It was a media circus.

And controversy is very, very good for sales. Talking about it being good or bad, at least people are talking about it.

Posted by huser

@herrweis: I would imagine that people would worry that if the most powerful people in the world are romantically involved, that there is the risk that they could eventually reproduce, starting a race of young godlike beings.

Assuming the metagene, that kinda is a given. This might be the thing that shifts the hypothetical to a "reality" that gets on the Daily Planet or worse the internets, but supers getting it on with supers (and really the concern should be mating with nonsupers spreading their legacy around) is gonna be a thing given how comic universes work. I mean depending on how savvy the folks at home are, the confirmed existence of various mythological figures as actually superpowered rather than tall tales sorta has to come with the realization that the legacies of godlike entities have always walked the earth.

Posted by CoffeeWithBagels

@huser: Great issue, can't wait to see how Atom and Firestorm get out of this one. Also why wasn't Element Woman their, wouldn't she want to be on time for her own inauguration into the Justice League.

Posted by Helsink

@titantempest: It's probably Batman himself. I mean, why else would the eye scanner work for him, I'd like to rule out contacts. Plus, that costume looked suspiciously similar to the one Bruce used before he came "back to life"

Edited by sirocks

@fragmentmind: i was thinking clayface too :) especially after the recent developments in Batman:)

Posted by matchesmalone21

@deaditegonzo: hmm,interesting theory...that makes a huge sense!!!

Posted by matchesmalone21

@sirocks: I also think the thief is Clayface,since he will or was recruited by Secret Society