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Five Developments from JUSTICE LEAGUE #19

Big changes and repercussions are headed in the Justice League's direction.

As we continue to see the face of the New 52 Universe develop, you can feel a rumbling in the Justice League's corner. In the pages of JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA, we know that Amanda Waller has her own plans set in motion.

With issue 19, we're seeing some developments and repercussions that will shake things up for the team. There are also some that answer questions we may have had since the New 52 changed the DCU.

There will be some spoilers for JUSTICE LEAGUE #19 so make sure you read that to see everything else that happens.

The Batcave has a Batcave

We know Batman loves his secrets. We know he keeps things from others for their own protection. What we haven't seen before is a secret room hidden deeper in the Batcave.

When a mysterious stranger infiltrates the Batcave, the individual somehow is aware of a hidden room. The Batcave is already a well-kept secret. What could Batman possibly want to keep from others? And more importantly, how will the discovery of this by a questionable foe affect the rest of the team?

Batman Has More Secret Plans

As this person enters the secret room, we see Batman has a some plans on a bulletin board along with some files. We know Batman wouldn't keep a computer in here because then Cyborg would know what he's up to.

You have to wonder how much time Batman spends in here. Do the others know about this room? How does Batman explain to Alfred or Robin where he's at when he's missing for hours? Plus with all the missions he's on, when does he find the time. What could be in that file that gets picked up?

Batman Still has Protocols Against the League

Apparently Batman didn't learn in Tower of Babel. As the stranger gains further access to Batman's secret stash, we see several specially marked containers.

As shown on the cover (sort of) and in the issue, the Superman container does contain the Kryptonite Ring. There was some doubt whether or not the ring existed in the New 52 timeline so now we know. The bigger question here is what could Batman possibly have in the other cases to take out the rest of the team?

The Justice League Watchtower Teleporter

Another question was did the Watchtower have a teleporter? We know they heavily rely on Cyborg with his Boom Tube tech infused in him. There is the chance that relying on him could result in a wonky trip on rare occasions. What happens if Cyborg is not available? Would they be trapped in the Watchtower?

When the new Atom arrives at the Watchtower, she does so via a teleporter. We don't know when they got this or who made it. We can assume some of the original pre-New 52 tech still exists.

Batman Confronts Superman and Wonder Woman

This scene doesn't play out like we see on the cover. Superman and Wonder Woman have connected recently. Even though they've been spending time together, they haven't been public about it. But we know that Batman was aware that they were getting close. Their recent actions in this issue is going to shake things up with Amanda Waller and others.

Batman's confrontation lets them know they can't necessarily hide anything from him. He also opens their eyes to the possible repercussions of their actions. They may have been questioning what tactics they should take in trying to make the world a better place but Batman has the perspective to see the bigger picture.

Overall it looks like Batman was heavily involved in this issue. We'll have to see why the 'thief' only took the Superman case, if that's all he took. Will the rest of the League find out or do they already know that Batman is prepared for them all?

128 Comments
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Posted by Omnicrono

@arthurized said:

it seems that Batman is everywhere and it's kinda pisses me off !

Same here, man.

And the guy's a fucking creeper.

LOL

Just close your eyes... just close your eyes.

Edited by QuantomMan

This was a very interesting issue.

Posted by GodDamnIronMan

@jawshco said:

I think the masked thief is either Tim or Bruce. The retinal scan makes me lean heavily toward it being a batfamily member. Dick is Chi town, Alf and Jason are knocked out, Damian is gone, so that really just leaves Tim & Bruce, IMO, and we know something's up with Tim lately.

I don't think he is from the Bat Family... the Cave would have a record of who was entered the cave...Anyone from the Bat-Family goes in, Batman would know,

Posted by Solomonwreath

I'm assuming the guy who broke in was Bruce for some reason. That's my guess.

Posted by knightofthechronicle

Well, the thief is definitely not a member of the batfamily (tim and bruce from what everyone keeps talking about). The guys got white skin, you can see that when he takes his glove off and his goggles. I haven't read the issue so does this thief meet up with the white guy from the Society? If he doesn't then it's probably the same person.

Posted by quiksilver70777

I am calling it right now, it was Jason Todd who broke into the batcave.

Posted by jorok_goldblade

@noj said:

Im hoping the mystery thief is a returned Damian Wayne. He would easily be able to get into the Batcave with his access. Maybe he was revived and genetically altered to be older and brainwashed to get the Kryptonite, or is from the future/parallel universe.

The biggest clue IMO is the fact that they mention the death of Damian at the beginning of the book. There is literally no reason Geoff Johns had to put that exchange between Alfred and Red Hood in other than to provide the readers with information that may be necessary in the future. He couldve written it so that the thief snuck in and knocked Alfred out while he was cleaning and the rest of the issue wouldnt have changed in any major way.

Talia has plenty of Damien clones.

Edited by sinestro_GL

The title should be: 5 things we learned about Batman from Justice League #19

Edited by Akindoodle

@ltbrd: I agree with most everything you said except I don't like this WW/SM thing SPECIFICALLY because of the quality of writing not my implied close-mindedness. It is rather poorly executed and frankly I'm just baffled by how badly Johns writes Wonder Woman. It's really not that hard to give Azzarello a ring and avoid writing her like a slightly psychotic, hormonal 15 year old with her first boyfriend ever! (*squeel!* "Oh he got me an ice cream and he's so handsome and he said I was so pretty and he's such a great kisser!" etc, etc) Really, that's how she comes across sometimes. It's insulting to the character and the intelligence of fans in general. As a girl, I feel pretty let down when he can't get the team's only female character right. As if we couldn't spot such a badly written character

@hancock89 said:
@arthurized said:

it seems that Batman is everywhere and it's kinda pisses me off !

Same here, man.

And the guy's a fucking creeper.

LOL

Absolutely. Spying on your team mates while they make out is nothing short of disturbing, deviated peeping tom. Batman showing up everywhere annoys me too

Posted by johnqestion

I like Bruce isn't acting like a jerk but heck did her tell them how he found out? Remember spying on them? I think WW and SM will get more pissed. The intruder leaves all the other boxes and goes for Superman. It's Supes he's gunning for.

Posted by johnqestion

@ltbrd: I agree with most everything you said except I don't like this WW/SM thing SPECIFICALLY because of the quality of writing not my implied close-mindedness. It is rather poorly executed and frankly I'm just baffled by how badly Johns writes Wonder Woman. It's really not that hard to give Azzarello a ring and avoid writing her like a slightly psychotic, hormonal 15 year old with her first boyfriend ever! (*squeel!* "Oh he got me an ice cream and he's so handsome and he said I was so pretty and he's such a great kisser!" etc, etc) Really, that's how she comes across sometimes. It's insulting to the character and the intelligence of fans in general. As a girl, I feel pretty let down when he can't get the team's only female character right. As if we couldn't spot such a badly written character

Coming from someone who thinks ass slapping is chemistry and romance this is kinda rich. Did you see Azzarello finally shut that stupid 15 year old hormonal notion down?

Edited by The Stegman

I haven't had a chance to read the issue yet, but could the masked "thief" be Bruce himself?

I know, I know... that would be too paranoid even for him... or would it?

EDIT: The thief's utility belt looks an awful lot like Batman's too, or a variation on Batman's.

The suit itself looks a lot like Batman's Insider suit, it would also explain how he could sneak in the Cave and get the jump on Jason.

Posted by AmazingWebHead

-Only our dark knight would put a Batcave in his Batcave.

-...There's also the question as to how the computer somehow accepted this dude's retinal scan!

-I really hope you mean he didn't learn to put better locks on it, not learn not to do it. Haven't you been paying attention to the story of "Injustice: Gods Among Us"? What if Grodd took over the League's minds? Or Brainiac? Or Darkseid? What if Ultra-Humanite switched brains with them? What if Parasite stole their powers? Or Amazo? Those plans are perfectly justified!

Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf

Here I thought that Batman gained a green lantern ring :/

This is what I get for not keeping up with Justice League lol.

Edited by Akindoodle

@johnqestion: Hey! People do keep track of my comments!

But I didn't mean as an actual romance. I found the interactions with Orion to be funny and humorous. I never, not once called them romantic if memory serves me correctly. Chemistry does not automatically equal romance. It could be merely sexual (like their's is turning out to be) or result in a close platonic friendship. If I want a romantic relationship to develop between the two, then I certainly don't want it now. That would just make her look slutty and frankly, Orion's still a jerk. I've also previously mentioned something called character development; He needs to grow up and stop throwing hissy fits every time he's punched. The relationship between Superman and Wonder Woman is meant to be romantic and the new "status quo". I find her dalliances with an assh*le more entertaining and that should not be the case. And I don't think I understand what you mean in your last question

That sound richer? I really worked on that one

Edited by czechoslovakia

He was barely in it, but I enjoyed Jason Todd's presence

Posted by Dud317

For those that think I was Bruce here's why it couldn't be him. He wouldn't hurt Alfred, in any way. Next...

Posted by comicace3

Aww yeah one way to proves batman's genius and prep is show the secret room he's been hiding.

Posted by G-Man

@foxxfireart: Don't jump to conclusions. No said they were going there. They might but no one's said that. Have the benefit of the doubt. As for Superman and Wonder Woman dating, it's been a HUGE factor in this issue and JLA. That's the main reason Amanda Waller formed the JLA...

@batsymyplaything: DC officially released the cover and the full first few pages showing the entire opening scene Monday as a 'preview.' So it's been out since Monday. And it's not really a spoiler for the issue since none of the 'wft' covers have too much to do with what's actually happening.

@ltbrd said:

Not exactly sure why anyone can't understand that Bruce is not telling Clark and Diana that they can't have a relationship in their secret identities. He specifically stated that Superman and Wonder Woman being so close together is the issue and will make people nervous. Which already happened.........read Justice League of America issue 1.

People aren't reading I guess.

Posted by ultimatepunchrod

This was a really good issue. I'm ready for Shazam to enter the main series or get his own ongoing though. We've been reading his origin since the beginning of the David Graves story line.

Posted by Arthurized

@g_man said:

@foxxfireart: Don't jump to conclusions. No said they were going there. They might but no one's said that. Have the benefit of the doubt. As for Superman and Wonder Woman dating, it's been a HUGE factor in this issue and JLA. That's the main reason Amanda Waller formed the JLA...

@batsymyplaything: DC officially released the cover and the full first few pages showing the entire opening scene Monday as a 'preview.' So it's been out since Monday. And it's not really a spoiler for the issue since none of the 'wft' covers have too much to do with what's actually happening.

@ltbrd said:

Not exactly sure why anyone can't understand that Bruce is not telling Clark and Diana that they can't have a relationship in their secret identities. He specifically stated that Superman and Wonder Woman being so close together is the issue and will make people nervous. Which already happened.........read Justice League of America issue 1.

People aren't reading I guess.

it's getting tricky to follow everything. No offence but maybe some people have others comics to read beside the DC

Posted by Arthurized

Are they really going to rehash Tower of Babel? Are they just going to end up using the New 52 label just as an excuse to retell old stories?

I don't see a valid reason why Superman and Wonder Woman can't have a relationship outside of the team or their secret identities. I don't think much of the actual relationship. It's more of a publishing gimmick. Public or not, you're basically telling them they can't live a life because of what other people may think about it. Lest we remember, they are all vigilantes to begin with.

I'll more enjoy to see the Kryptonian with the Amazon rather a SM/ Lois. I find her so annoying and useless.

Edited by The Cyan Lantern

@g_man

Okay, I hate to sound like one of those DC paranoids, but did you catch this in Justice League #19? Inside the display case is an outfit meant for a female that is Black & Yellow and (what looks to be) a cowl covering the mouth. Do we have a Cassie Cain?!...

Posted by Dernman

@the_cyan_lantern: Could just be a retired costume. DC goes back and forth between having them as a shrine to fallen Bat heroes and retired costumes.

Posted by Mia26

LOL .... am I the only one who thinks that it's stupid to be worried about Superman and Wonder Woman ? I mean what's the worst they can do, cause a mini earthquake ? I think Geoff John's is just running out of ideas, how about we give Grant Morrison the Justice League title he actually had exciting stories that had the heroes fighting the villians instead of fighting themeselves. If Geoff John's what's to write about heroes fighting each other I suggest writing for Marvel.

Edited by ScumDestroy

MARTIAN MANHUNTER: He turns into Bruce to take the Kryptonite ring and then puts it on and morphs into the dude at the end.

Edited by RedheadedAtrocitus

This certainly looks like the case of trying to drive a wedge in the team if ever I did see one! That "Insider" like thief has me most intrigued, and its obvious that Batman is in the same stance he is here vis a vis the League as he was going into Identity Crisis/Infinite Crisis. Troubled times ahead I tell you. Troubled times ahead.

Edited by ltbrd

@akindoodle: if you feel the need to associate a generalization with just you be my guest......my post was a sum total of comments and rants I have seen since the SM/WW relationship began.

Posted by Mezmero

Has everyone completely lost their minds? The thief's hand had white skin. The Talon serum turns skin white. So what Batman villain has used the Talon formula and has Wayne DNA and retina? Thomas Wayne Jr. Why in the seven hells would Martian Manhunter go to all the trouble to imitate Bruce and not make his skin a normal pigment?

Posted by ltbrd

Stepping away from Batman for a moment (because like I said before I have a feeling the identity of the thief may be more of a "jump the shark" than we are speculating) does anyone else find it extremely poor writing that following Superman and Wonder Woman's actions the news reports said "....making them the first Americans to enter Kahndaq in over 26 years...."

Since when our Superman and Wonder Woman Americans? I haven't gotten the impression that people are unaware of Themyscira's existence. So Wonder Woman would not be an American by any stretch of the imagination. Also, in issue 18 of Superman its only stated that he's given the same rights as an American citizen but its not stated that he is an American by default.

I enjoyed the dialog between Superman and Wonder Woman later in the issue, even though I thought it continued to show Wonder Woman in a poor and immature light when compared to the rest of her team, as it did a perfect job of highlighting Superman's opinion of his place in the world. However, to simply classify them, and by extension the Justice League, as Americans seemed to miss the mark in many ways. When the series started it seemed clear that the "of America" was dropped to highlight the fact that the Justice League isn't simply aligned to a single country and also takes into account the fact that Wonder Woman (Themyscira), Aquaman (Atlantis), and Green Lantern (Green Lantern Corps) are aligned with non-US parties and thus represent a broader scope. So to limit League activity or the actions of Superman and Wonder Woman because they are "Americans" just doesn't seem to fit.

Now had the news report said ".....making them the first foreigners to take action in Kahndaq in over 26 years...." and that as a result Kahndaq is forbidding any foreigners, diplomats or otherwise, from entering the country and attacking those that try to stay that would have made a lot more sense and shown, IMO, a greater degree of writing than simply slapping an American label on two superheroes that are technically not American.

Posted by UltimateSMfan

@ltbrd:exactly, i dont get that part!! they're just considered American??!! why? just because they primarily operate in America,Doesn't WW live in London? And Superman is for the world,isn't he? AC #900 caught the eye of so many for a reason.

Edited by feargalr

I really enjoyed this issue! But nothing even remotely like the covers happens

Posted by Equonox

My money is on Martian Manhunter or Batman himself. The Tim theory was interesting, too...

Posted by Frobin

After seeing the last page and the ring on the D.'s hand ... well, it seemed pretty clear for me that the thief was Batman himself under control of D. ... of course he's not aware of him mind controlled, so he's searching for an intruder (yet).

Only thing I wonder is ... if D. is using Batman to outplay the Justice League, why not taking ALL the things Batman has against the team members? Why just the Kryptonite ring for Superman?
Maybe D. is just too cocksure of himself and just considers Superman as a threat to him ... but it would be pretty stupid ... though it would somehow fit the character.

Edited by AskaniSon295

maybe the masked thief is Talon..?

Posted by CrimsonAlchemist

@amazingwebhead: My gosh that's brilliant that could be a great plausible reason.

Edited by Hancock89

@mia26 said:

LOL .... am I the only one who thinks that it's stupid to be worried about Superman and Wonder Woman ? I mean what's the worst they can do, cause a mini earthquake ? I think Geoff John's is just running out of ideas, how about we give Grant Morrison the Justice League title he actually had exciting stories that had the heroes fighting the villians instead of fighting themeselves. If Geoff John's what's to write about heroes fighting each other I suggest writing for Marvel.

Agreed.

@g_man said:

Not exactly sure why anyone can't understand that Bruce is not telling Clark and Diana that they can't have a relationship in their secret identities. He specifically stated that Superman and Wonder Woman being so close together is the issue and will make people nervous. Which already happened.........read Justice League of America issue 1.

People aren't reading I guess.

People know that. That doesn't change the fact that the plot is pretty lame, man. I mean, Batman has had no problem whatsoever sleeping with Wonder Woman in the past, and they are both part of the trinity. But suddenly when it's superman it's like ''Oh watch out, this is dangerous''. And all that despite the fact that Superman is known to be one of the kindest superheroes out there. That doesn't make any lick of sense... the author is simply rehashing elements from Kingdom Come and various other story lines that exploited the idea ever since.

DC should give these two characters a real chance to be together, instead of always use their closeness to trigger the same type of events.

And Batman is being a massive hypocrite too, he's spying on others and questioning their relationships, when he's been sleeping with Catwoman in the New 52, who is considered a criminal. Come on, the guy's a creeper, there's no getting around that.

@akindoodle said:

Same here, man.

And the guy's a fucking creeper.

LOL

Absolutely. Spying on your team mates while they make out is nothing short of disturbing, deviated peeping tom. Batman showing up everywhere annoys me too

Hear, hear!!

Posted by deaditegonzo

This thread is getting more attention, so here goes:

Once again, there will be spoilers in this topic, there has to be based on what is being discussed. You are warned, I dont want to see complaints. The point isnt to discuss the plot however, but just to discuss what this issue means for Superman and Wonder Woman in particular.

You know that version of Supes and Wonder Woman being shown in the Injustice trailers? The ones who are oppressive, and out of their typical character, believe they can take over for the good of society? Thats the version of Superman and Wonder Woman who are developing here, and while the Injustice Supes and WW are from an Elseworld and even an alternate reality even in that story, these are THE MAIN UNIVERSE VERSIONS, the ones we will see for years. Wonder Woman even encourages Supes to break international laws and control people for their own safety. She seems like a villainess trying to brainwash Superman and make him her pawn a lot like the Injustice WW.

Also, Superman is kind of a dumb meathead in this. He didnt even think about being low profile, he just punched first and asked questions later, and seemed dumbfounded that Batman was upset. Unlike haters think, Superman is not dumb, he has a genius level intellect, and he definitely is not the aggressive type.

Ive always thought Johns was kind of a hack, but this goes to show he knows nothing about Superman or Wonder Woman. Batman is portrayed as an admonishing father figure, and btw, WW even aggressively lashes out against him like an impudent child!

What did you all think? What do you think about the version of these iconic characters that will be our main universe versions of these characters at least until a pseudo reboot/retcon.

The only good thing about this issue is that the Justice League book, and Superman's self-titled, are the only ones exploring his and WW's relationship. This issue is very "Batwanky", and frankly, I beat Injustice, and based on the respect and dignity they placed on Supes and WW vs Geoff Johns' version, I think Netherrealms "gets" these characters more than DC!

Posted by TheGraySon

@mia26 said:

LOL .... am I the only one who thinks that it's stupid to be worried about Superman and Wonder Woman ? I mean what's the worst they can do, cause a mini earthquake ? I think Geoff John's is just running out of ideas, how about we give Grant Morrison the Justice League title he actually had exciting stories that had the heroes fighting the villians instead of fighting themeselves. If Geoff John's what's to write about heroes fighting each other I suggest writing for Marvel.

If you read the issue it explains why... Its not that hes afraid their sex will tear the earth apart. Its about how people of earth will see two of the most powerful people in the world as a couple.

Posted by Mia26

@lvenger: I think the whole idea is stupid, especially with what I believe John's is trying to do with Superman and Wonder Woman.

Edited by Fudgie29

Superman with a beard is very good looking. His skin color is more of an olive tone & that beard makes him look like a boss.

Edited by Perfect 10

how about the fact that this "stranger" knows the location of the batcave and can pass all of the security features (retina scan, finger print scan). who is he? im HOPING this is either damien clone or from the future. he needs to come back NOW. as for bats, see people this is what i've been saying for years. this guy is NUTS. who sits around and plots ways to kill his FRIENDS. not only that but has the weapons on hand to slay said "friends". if this is your idol to look up to, think you need to see a shrink asap. not cool or heroic in any way

Posted by Mia26

This thread is getting more attention, so here goes:

Once again, there will be spoilers in this topic, there has to be based on what is being discussed. You are warned, I dont want to see complaints. The point isnt to discuss the plot however, but just to discuss what this issue means for Superman and Wonder Woman in particular.

You know that version of Supes and Wonder Woman being shown in the Injustice trailers? The ones who are oppressive, and out of their typical character, believe they can take over for the good of society? Thats the version of Superman and Wonder Woman who are developing here, and while the Injustice Supes and WW are from an Elseworld and even an alternate reality even in that story, these are THE MAIN UNIVERSE VERSIONS, the ones we will see for years. Wonder Woman even encourages Supes to break international laws and control people for their own safety. She seems like a villainess trying to brainwash Superman and make him her pawn a lot like the Injustice WW.

Also, Superman is kind of a dumb meathead in this. He didnt even think about being low profile, he just punched first and asked questions later, and seemed dumbfounded that Batman was upset. Unlike haters think, Superman is not dumb, he has a genius level intellect, and he definitely is not the aggressive type.

Ive always thought Johns was kind of a hack, but this goes to show he knows nothing about Superman or Wonder Woman. Batman is portrayed as an admonishing father figure, and btw, WW even aggressively lashes out against him like an impudent child!

What did you all think? What do you think about the version of these iconic characters that will be our main universe versions of these characters at least until a pseudo reboot/retcon.

The only good thing about this issue is that the Justice League book, and Superman's self-titled, are the only ones exploring his and WW's relationship. This issue is very "Batwanky", and frankly, I beat Injustice, and based on the respect and dignity they placed on Supes and WW vs Geoff Johns' version, I think Netherrealms "gets" these characters more than DC!

Yeah, that's what I've been trying to say. I feel like Geoff Johns doesn't like or care much about Superman and I feel that his using Wonder Woman as some form of courruption for Superman ( Superman is strong by mind and will) , which is why I think his whole plot is stupid. He does not understand Superman, and writes him like some agressive brute and Wonder Woman like some bitchy child. Overall, the only character I feel he should write is Green Lantern. Am sure if your a hardcore Batman fan you won't mind what John's is doing but if you love or respect Wonder Woman or Superman, it's pretty horrible to see your heroes treated like this, at times I can't even believe that it's Superman in the Justice League (Is it him or Ultraman ?). But thanks for writing it out, I thought I was the only one that understood what was going on.

Posted by deaditegonzo

@mia26: Look up Alan Moore's "Twilight of the Super Heroes" which DC just traded to get the full rights to. This is what they are going for, I was excited, but I was hoping theyd execute it with a lot more subtlety, class, and dignity. The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions, except Supes and WW's intentions dont look good.

Posted by Mia26

@mia26 said:

LOL .... am I the only one who thinks that it's stupid to be worried about Superman and Wonder Woman ? I mean what's the worst they can do, cause a mini earthquake ? I think Geoff John's is just running out of ideas, how about we give Grant Morrison the Justice League title he actually had exciting stories that had the heroes fighting the villians instead of fighting themeselves. If Geoff John's what's to write about heroes fighting each other I suggest writing for Marvel.

If you read the issue it explains why... Its not that hes afraid their sex will tear the earth apart. Its about how people of earth will see two of the most powerful people in the world as a couple.

I understnad what you and G-Man are trying to say and I can understand that

it can have some extremly parnoid people worried, but I don't understand why ? I

mean Yes they are both the most powerful beings on earth and a Superbaby is

possible, so what they hook up get married have a baby, at the end of the day

they are still heroes and their actions are those of heroes. I just feel that Superman and Wonder Woman have been mischaracterized, Superman is some dumb, agressive brute and Wonder Woman some bitchy child. Geoff John's has dissapointed me, especially if he plans on using Wonder Woman as a form of courruption to Superman who some how controls this strong willed individual who was Pre-52 the leader of the Justice League and had an instinctive knowlege of right and wrong. I want my Superman and Wonder Woman back no more crap from Geoff John's. I know the idea is explianed and I understand, I just think it's stupid.

Posted by Lvenger

@mia26: @deaditegonzo: You guys think DC are going for a Twilight of The Superheroes in the New 52? Someone else brought that up before and I'm not so sure DC would do that. It would involve ruining the depictions of some of their most cherished characters and if I recall the plot of that story from Moore, then an all out war leaves no one the victor. Where do they take their comics and universe from here? Reverting back to Pre Flashpoint continuity would be a betrayal of what DC claim to have done.

Edited by johnqestion

@akindoodle said:

@johnqestion: Hey! People do keep track of my comments!

But I didn't mean as an actual romance. I found the interactions with Orion to be funny and humorous. I never, not once called them romantic if memory serves me correctly. Chemistry does not automatically equal romance. It could be merely sexual (like their's is turning out to be) or result in a close platonic friendship. If I want a romantic relationship to develop between the two, then I certainly don't want it now. That would just make her look slutty and frankly, Orion's still a jerk. I've also previously mentioned something called character development; He needs to grow up and stop throwing hissy fits every time he's punched. The relationship between Superman and Wonder Woman is meant to be romantic and the new "status quo". I find her dalliances with an assh*le more entertaining and that should not be the case. And I don't think I understand what you mean in your last question

That sound richer? I really worked on that one

You sound like you backtracking a bit now on what you've been saying but if you like seeing WW deal with assholes as entertainment, then you could go for Guy Gardener or Hal Jordan to some extent but Diana was treated with more respect by Hal. But she more or less schooled Hal too in JL for presuming to try to tell her want to do and also for being a douche too. Also why should we want to see women heroes this way constantly? The only way we can get entertainment out of them is getting men to behave like idiots around them? The people all hating on sm/ww usually have their own shipping choices, which is fine but it's reaching you think this is good development for Diana to fall for assholes. And Azzarello never once showed WW interested in him. That is your wishful thinking. Because she is a woman, does not mean any man within her vicinity she has to want them.That is the point Azz made here. Also she'll wring anyone's balls off if he keep treating her like a piece if meat as Orion did. Epic.

Posted by Press Oblivion

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure that I liked the scolding that Batman gave them. Superman is a journalist and would have had an understanding of international law, and violations there of, previous to this under cover mission.

Why they needed to go under cover is also a questionable plot detail to me as well.

Posted by Saren

@mezmero said:

Has everyone completely lost their minds? The thief's hand had white skin. The Talon serum turns skin white. So what Batman villain has used the Talon formula and has Wayne DNA and retina? Thomas Wayne Jr. Why in the seven hells would Martian Manhunter go to all the trouble to imitate Bruce and not make his skin a normal pigment?

This doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense. Setting aside the fact that there are black Talons, like the one in Birds of Prey right now, who've taken the Talon serum and remained black (I mean, seriously); Thomas Wayne Jr. is almost certainly going to be restricted to the Bat-books alone, and people have cheated DNA/retina scanners in fiction a ludicrous number of times. Catwoman has cheated retina scanners.

Not that I think the thief was J'onn anyway ---- it's unlikely he'd be working for freaking Despero and it's more likely the thief is involved in some capacity with the Secret Society. It could be someone like Everyman.

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