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First Look: AVENGERS VS. X-MEN #11

The end is near. Get a peek at what's happening in the second to last issue.

This week we saw some glorious action courtesy of Adam Kubert in AVENGERS VS. X-MEN #10. There was some pretty cool scenes with some of the heroes stepping up in trying to stop a Phoenix Force powered Cyclops. With only two more issues to go, there's no telling what might happen. It all has to end.

Here's a look at what's coming in the next issue. This time Oliver Coipel is handling the art.

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The biggest comics event of the summer hits it’s red hot penultimate chapter as Marvel is pleased to present your first look at Avengers VS. X-Men #11! From the creative tour de force of Brian Michael Bendis & Olivier Coipel, the Avengers gather together to take on the remaining hosts of the Phoenix Force with the aid of Charles Xavier! Can the combined might of Earth’s Mightiest, Professor Xavier, the Scarlet Witch, Hope and more put an end to their reign once and for all?

Here comes the pain as all your favorite super heroes enter the battle—and only one team will emerge victorious! Don’t miss out Avengers Vs. X-Men #11, an extra sized issue at no extra cost, on sale this September in comic shops everywhere, on the Marvel Comics app, and the all-new Marvel Comics Webstore!

For more on Avengers VS. X-Men, please visit http://avx.marvel.com

AVENGERS VS. X-MEN #11 (JUL120528)

Written by BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS

Penciled by OLIVIER COIPEL

Cover by JIM CHEUNG

FOC – 8/20/12, ON-SALE – 9/12/11

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dernman

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Edited By dernman
@JohnnyGat said:

@Dernman said:

@JohnnyGat said:

@Paulwichmann said:

Calm down guys did any of you read children's crusade? If you did you'd realise that most of the xmen problems could have been undone if not for their actions in said story. The avengers are partially to Blaim along with the xmen as both parties actions have lead to events. Cyclops I feel is most responsible for his actions which he has made desk ions for his entire race. However him and Emma have been right to Point out that the avengers have never offered help to xmen problems. Oh wait that's wrong what about second coming where they tried to help brake through bastion force field. It seems to me writers don't do there homework, and Scott especially since prelude schism has been purposely written hated in the same way iron man was in civil war. I feel cap has resorted to civil war mode and become fixated on his goals. Storm will not beat Emma in Phoenix mode as storm has yet to reach true potential. My predictions hope to kill cyclops as new iron fist vs Phoenix final the phoneix force jumps to cable and marvel ironic side is she has to kill cable so he dies again!!! No I joke cable not bin seen since xsanction so I'm going with hope wins against cyclops sucks in Phoenix force and destroys it and herself to save everyone the sacrifice replaces jean grey sacrifice and she comes back.

In the defense of the X-men, The Avengers were there to help the city of San Francisco who were also trapped along with the X-men. When it came to points where only mutant lives were at stake I can't remember any major situation where the Avengers did help the X-men.

In defense of the Avengers if the Avengers came to help without being asked or agreeing with the way to handle the situation then they would have just been accused of interfering in mutant business. That's why Cap trusted them to handle it and waited until they were asked for backup. Not to mention they had their own problems and probably only found out it was a major thing after the fact.

In my defense my point was that Paulwichmann mentions or at the very least implied that the Avengers "offered" their help to break Bastions force field out of the kindness of their hearts. As you mentioned they didn't even know it was a major thing nor did they know it was at the core a mutant problem until Nemesis, Jeffries, and Rao pointed it out so it wasn't the Avengers offering to help the X-men with their problems it's the Avengers being in a position where they see a possible threat that might affect more than just mutants.

I understand Cap's position that he wanted to show Cyke he respected his authority when it comes to mutant problems but at the same time he could have done more to help. After M-day even if Cyke told Cap to let him handle the mutant problems should Cap have just agreed, it may be respectful to Cyke but in a sense of importance (innocent lives). Cap and the Avengers could have just help monitor the situation with the mutants after M-day without getting involved unless things go completely south and I know the Avengers have their adventures to keep them busy enough that they won't be able to monitor mutants 24/7 but surely when the Purifiers killed all those depowered mutant children and subsequently invading the school they would have thought "how could the X-men not have seen these coming" it should have at least made them more concerned with the X-men's capabilities in protecting innocent lives. But instead of offering any support when clearly the X-men were failing at protecting their own they let it go as it was a "mutant" problem (add that to the fact that despite those tragedies Ms Marvel was tactless enough to bring in business (registration act) instead of letting the X-men mourn).

Both sides have made stupid mistakes, that's my stance. Scott not asking for help is prideful and he could have saved more lives had he asked and Steve was wrong in letting respect block better judgement concerning those innocent lives.

Sorry I'm having to many discussions with to many people and I'm already tired of the subject. This is why I stayed out of it before because it will just go on and on. Especially with people are biased. Not that you are but it make me tired of discussing it even with a reasonable person. So I won't address everything.  Could he have done more to help when he wasn't dealing with his own problems? Maybe on the things X-Men were not currently handling but they already had a full plate of their own. They could have been monitory from afar waiting for the call or out of control. Other then that he should have waited for the call from help. Also some of these mutants issues are actually bigger then mutant issues. Hell even some of the smaller mutant issues don't exclude it from being a hero issue. Don't forget this isn't the real world.You can't say oh the Avengers were not there because the writers purposely leave the Avengers for things for many reasons. Take the government screwing over the X-Men again. You bring in the Avengers a government group you takes away a lot of that feeling they were going for.  They needed to invent reasons for the Avengers not to be their for concept. Being busy, respecting Cyclops. The writers wanted the Avengers to stay in character and continue with the X-Book thing. They needed to invent reasons why the Avengers were not there.  It was something in the beginning  but failed to realize it went on too long and failed to do both. Now it's different. They are trying to fix a lot of problems that didn't make sense. Like there seeming like there was two universes.. An X-universe and everything else universe. It also solves the problem of the dumbness to think there is much of a difference between mutants and enhanced humans. Especially the second generation who were born mutated and the superhumans in recent years now facing many of the problems the X-Men did       That's why I support merging the XandA universes so much..
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@LordRequiem said:

If Emma dies and they temporarily replace her with this Jean Grey from the past, I will be angry.

Then be angry because thats wha should've happened years ago.

Better late than never I guess though.

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Edited By dernman
@Osian2: 

Cap and co were fighting a couple of monsters (that they took care of with little difficulty) in the middle of nowhere and wanted Cyke most powerful team to stay instead of going to save his 16 year old GRANDDAUGHTER from Unit (the most dangerous prisoner). 

Cap and the X-Men were fighting monsters. Abandoning your team in the middle of a fight is bad. Even if they defeated the monsters easily things could have gone wrong because of the sudden switch up in plan. You don't do that. The right thing to do is send one of the other teams who already won to do the work. Regardless the result was the same Cap no longer trusted Cyclops's judgment.  Also Granddaughter? How? Blood no. You could consider Hope Cable's daughter because he raised her but Cyclops wasn't around. I just don't see the deep emotional attachment other in title. Hope doesn't see him as her grandfather other then title. Heck Cyke only seems to see the messiah.
 

Wolverines an expert on the PF now is he? The guy who think the only way to beat the phoenix, a creature of REBIRTH is to stab it? Also no the Avengers didn't know a lot about the phoenix seeing as Iron man hastily built a robot to kill it but instead split it into five pieces.

 Wolverine has just as much as experience with the PF as the rest of them. Wolverine could have told him about how it works and Cap make his own judgment on how it is to handle it. How Wolverine would doesn't even matter. You're also conveniently forgetting Beast who is a genius.  Yes the Avengers do no about the PF they have files on everything. You really think Beast, Wolverine or any other person who's been on the Avengers wouldn't have worked on those files? They started working on that robot suit the moment they hear about the PF as a back up. Beast would have worked on some of it and came up with the idea of the workings. So did Hank maybe BP in the beginning. They also got the reading from the first couple of tries of absorbing it. Which although failed proved that it was a possibility that it could be done.


You don't seriously believe that the X-men don't know more about the phoenix do you? Considering we've only seen X-men as hosts for the phoenix. 

That means what? What good did it do them? Hope failed and all their so called experience was worthless because they lacked the thing only Spider-Man could give her.  So obviously the previous hosts (who didn't deal with what Hope hope had to) expertise weren't worth much. The X-Men may have more people but Beast was expert enough. 


Blow up the moon? Where are you getting this from for all we know the phoenix could have burned Hope or just flown away. When the hell did the phoenix EVER blow anything up? 

See you're not listening. I never said it blow up the moon. No it would not have just flown away. You could clearly see it was going to explode out of her. She was even talking about being a bomb, her failing, and them not being able to stop it. Its one of the reasons she let out so much energy telling them to stop fighting. It was not only to stop them fighting but to release some the energy. It's why she begged Logan to kill her. 

So Cyclops has lost it because he feels threatened? That would mean that the Avengers have also lost it because they feel threatened by the p5 

Really your equating fear of the world being destroyed to Scott not liking the fact his power isn't as all powerful as he wants it t be and the fact it  means it's possible he doesn't get his way. RIIIIIIGHT I got cha.
  


Cap wouldn't accept a scenario where Hope would become a host. 

Bull. He optimally would have like no one to get it because of the danger it posed but it was never unacceptable. Hell he knew they might not even stop the thing. That's why he wanted Hope off planet.


Let's look at it this way. The phoenix is heade for earth and Cyclops believes that it will make Hope the host and restart the mutant race. Why does he think this?


1. Cable came from a terrible future and told Cyclops that Hope needed to become the host.

No just that Hope wasn't around and that might be the reason. Cables info was doubly faulty. Not only did things into what that guys said that the guy didn't say. The guy didn't even know the full story himself. Not to mention that has nothing to do with restarting the race.


2. Hope is the Mutant messiah and has shown signs of being a host since second coming.

 How is she a messiah? Cyk didn't see any signs until she after she came back. He already thought she was the messiah instead of thinking she was another mutant. Just reason to show how the No More Mutants spell wasn't absolute. I:E The exceptions all the mutants that didn't lose there power she would have been the exception that no more could be born.      Something buy the way a lot of the mutants didn't buy into the her being a Messiah.


Captain America believes it will destroy the planet. Why does he think this?


1. Because Wolverine told him it would. That's right the man who has a grudge against Cyclops doesn't agree with Cyclops what a surprise.

No because PF has a history of blowing up planets and because it was destroying planets left and right on it's way to Earth. Also because it has a history of almost blowing up this planet. Ya sooooo wrong for Cap to think the PF would blowup Earth and  for him not to want the PF to come here. RIIIIIGHT.


2. The phoenix burned a planet on its way. Bearing in mind that if the Phoenix was coming to burn the earth why did it head directly to Hope? It didn't need a host to burn the other planets and lets remember those planets were burned because the phoenix flew too close it didn't stop on the way.

See you're doing making the same mistake. You're assuming that the only way the PF would blow up the Earth is because that's it's intention. You're also assuming the PF even cared about Earth at this point.  It could have taken Hope and blown up the planet for whatever reason it blew up the other ones. As I previously stated Hope could have blown up the planet because she couldn't control the powers. Something that was always a worry about way back in the days with Jean.    Something the the Shi'ar always knew. Heck Hope could have just plain lost herself in the PF and wanted to stretch her powers. So having a host doesn't mean anything.   
I swear the more and more I discuss this the more I can't believe the people who are siding with the PF or the X-Men in the beginning.  Hell I could understand the people who just through up their hands, say both sides acted dumb but to actually side with the X-Men and say the Avengers were the wrong ones. SMH
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@Dernman said:

Cap and the X-Men were fighting monsters. Abandoning your team in the middle of a fight is bad. Even if they defeated the monsters easily things could have gone wrong because of the sudden switch up in plan. You don't do that. The right thing to do is send one of the other teams who already won to do the work. Regardless the result was the same Cap no longer trusted Cyclops's judgment. Also Granddaughter? How? Blood no. You could consider Hope Cable's daughter because he raised her but Cyclops wasn't around. I just don't see the deep emotional attachment other in title. Hope doesn't see him as her grandfather other then title. Heck Cyke only seems to see the messiah.

The other teams weren't finished all Cap said is that there were other teams. Cyclops took his most powerful team to save his granddaughter aka mutant messiah from the most dangerous criminal of them all. Seeing as there weren't any casualties as a result of leaving the Avengers to fight some monsters Cyclops did the right thing. Saving 16 year old girl > fighting some monsters even though the Avengers didn't need their help.

Wolverine has just as much as experience with the PF as the rest of them. Wolverine could have told him about how it works and Cap make his own judgment on how it is to handle it. How Wolverine would doesn't even matter. You're also conveniently forgetting Beast who is a genius. Yes the Avengers do no about the PF they have files on everything. You really think Beast, Wolverine or any other person who's been on the Avengers wouldn't have worked on those files? They started working on that robot suit the moment they hear about the PF as a back up. Beast would have worked on some of it and came up with the idea of the workings. So did Hank maybe BP in the beginning. They also got the reading from the first couple of tries of absorbing it. Which although failed proved that it was a possibility that it could be done.

You keep saying they had files on the phoenix but where's the proof? They were ill prepared. The space team went on a suicide mission and Iron mans robot failed also.

That means what? What good did it do them? Hope failed and all their so called experience was worthless because they lacked the thing only Spider-Man could give her. So obviously the previous hosts (who didn't deal with what Hope hope had to) expertise weren't worth much. The X-Men may have more people but Beast was expert enough.

The previous hosts didn't even get the chance to share their experience with Hope who knows how it would have turned out if Emma and Rachel trained Hope? Beast is nowhere near as much an expert on the phoenix comared to Rachel.
See you're not listening. I never said it blow up the moon. No it would not have just flown away. You could clearly see it was going to explode out of her. She was even talking about being a bomb, her failing, and them not being able to stop it. Its one of the reasons she let out so much energy telling them to stop fighting. It was not only to stop them fighting but to release some the energy. It's why she begged Logan to kill her.

You clearly wrote that Hope was going to blow up the moon. How do you know it wouldn't have flown away? Maybe it was going to fly past the earth? We don't know you're just assuming the worst. Just because Hope talked about being a bomb doesn't mean she was going to blow up it was a metaphor.
Really your equating fear of the world being destroyed to Scott not liking the fact his power isn't as all powerful as he wants it t be and the fact it means it's possible he doesn't get his way. RIIIIIIGHT I got cha.

Cyclops not getting his way? Seeing as Cykes plan was to make the world a better place where as Caps plan was to defeat or even possibly kill the P5 it's more like Cap was upset that he wasn't getting his own way. Reed Richards even called Cap and Tony out on this.

Bull. He optimally would have like no one to get it because of the danger it posed but it was never unacceptable. Hell he knew they might not even stop the thing. That's why he wanted Hope off planet. No just that Hope wasn't around and that might be the reason. Cables info was doubly faulty. Not only did things into what that guys said that the guy didn't say. The guy didn't even know the full story himself. Not to mention that has nothing to do with restarting the race.

Cap didn't just want Hope off the planet otherwise he wouldn't have chased her to the moon Emma even read his mind and found that he wasn't going to leave without Hope. Cable might have not known everything but he knew more than the Avengers. He said that if the Avengers took Hope it would result in a terrible future.

How is she a messiah? Cyk didn't see any signs until she after she came back. He already thought she was the messiah instead of thinking she was another mutant. Just reason to show how the No More Mutants spell wasn't absolute. I:E The exceptions all the mutants that didn't lose there power she would have been the exception that no more could be born. Something buy the way a lot of the mutants didn't buy into the her being a Messiah.

She's a messiah in almost the same way as Jesus Christ (hope i'm not offending anyone just using him as an example). She was a miracle baby that was naturally brn post m-day and on the day of her return in second coming 5 new mutant appeared do you really believe it was all a coincidence. Just because not everyone believes her to be a messiah doesn't mean that she couldn't be one. Not everyone believed/believes in Jesus.

No because PF has a history of blowing up planets and because it was destroying planets left and right on it's way to Earth. Also because it has a history of almost blowing up this planet. Ya sooooo wrong for Cap to think the PF would blowup Earth and for him not to want the PF to come here. RIIIIIGHT.

PF does not have a history of blowing up planets. Show me when it ever BLEW UP A PLANET. Once again it burned those planets when it flew by them it wasn't the phoenixs intention.

See you're doing making the same mistake. You're assuming that the only way the PF would blow up the Earth is because that's it's intention. You're also assuming the PF even cared about Earth at this point. It could have taken Hope and blown up the planet for whatever reason it blew up the other ones. As I previously stated Hope could have blown up the planet because she couldn't control the powers. Something that was always a worry about way back in the days with Jean. Something the the Shi'ar always knew. Heck Hope could have just plain lost herself in the PF and wanted to stretch her powers. So having a host doesn't mean anything. I swear the more and more I discuss this the more I can't believe the people who are siding with the PF or the X-Men in the beginning. Hell I could understand the people who just through up their hands, say both sides acted dumb but to actually side with the X-Men and say the Avengers were the wrong ones. SMH

Of course the phoenix cares about the earth otherwise it wouldnt keep coming back. You're assuming the worst. Why would the phoenix bother taking Hope as a host just to blow up the earth when it has enough power to do it alone.
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Edited By jcbart

@Dernman said:

@jcbart said:

@Dernman: You sound like one of those guys that thinks that America can have nuclear weapons but if any other country does it's an act of war and they are the bad guys.

You sound like one of those guys who don't hear what what they want to hear and hear what's actually being said said. You obviously did not reading what I said or actually try to understand it. So save me from your replies because I have no time to waste having a discussion with someone like that.

One of those guys that hears what is actually being said instead of hearing what they want to hear? That's what kind of a guy I am? I am A-Okay with that. Means that I'm actually listening and responding instead of being clouded by my own blik, which is what you seem to be doing as you clearly hate both Cyclops and the X-Men with a passion.

Oh, and my analogy still stands.

@Dernman said:

This is why I stayed out of it before because it will just go on and on. Especially with people are biased.

Mate, you're being a little biased yourself. You clearly hate Cyclops bitterly and like Captain America, so you're defending every single decision Cap's made, despite several non-mutants calling him out on his sloppy choices.

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Edited By dernman
@jcbart

: One of those guys that hears what is actually being said instead of hearing what they want to hear? That's what kind of a guy I am? I am A-Okay with that. Means that I'm actually listening and responding instead of being clouded by my own blik, which is what you seem to be doing as you clearly hate both Cyclops and the X-Men with a passion.

Oh, and my analogy still stands.

My mistake I edited it wrong that time  but you knew that didn't you?  It figures the one time you would actually pay attention is the time you know I made a mistake in editing. That kinda goes into what Im saying about it being purposeful not hearing what I;m saying .You purposely interpreted everything I wrote before in my other posts and only read that editing mistake because you could use that.

   Mate, you're being a little biased yourself. You clearly hate Cyclops bitterly and like Captain America, so you're defending every single decision Cap's made, despite several non-mutants  calling him out on his sloppy choices. 


 Clearly hate Cyclops??? See thats the type of thing I'm talking about on how you read what you want to read. Cyclops is one of my favorite character. I actually sided with him during scism BUT NOOOO I MUST HATE Cyclopse because I'm not drinking the kool-aid and disagree with him.  You're also wrong about me with Cap I already said several times he didn't handle things perfectly and can go into were he made bad choices but I guess accepting that would mess with what you want to believe right? 
 

 Again because you do want to read want I'm actually saying  You're just wasting my time. DO NOT REPLY TO ME FURTHER.
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Edited By dernman

The other teams weren't finished all Cap said is that there were other teams. Cyclops took his most powerful team to save his granddaughter aka mutant messiah from the most dangerous criminal of them all. Seeing as there weren't any casualties as a result of leaving the Avengers to fight some monsters Cyclops did the right thing. Saving 16 year old girl > fighting some monsters even though the Avengers didn't need their help.

Yes they were the other teams were in a better position to help. Don't get me started on the whole "messiah"  thing again. Scott abandoned his team mates (the avengers) in the middle of a fight to do something one of the other teams could have done. Having no casualties because the the Avengers pulled through is irrelevant. It's like allowing someone to work on a dangerous job and taking half their safety equipment away in the middle and saying after that's ok nothing bad happened. 


  You keep saying they had files on the phoenix but where's the proof? They were ill prepared. The space team went on a suicide mission and Iron mans robot failed also.

It's common knowledge the Avengers have files on the things their members face and excuse me if I'm wrong isn't Beast a member?  They were as prepared as anyone could have been but by you're logic because their plan didn't work out they were ill prepared well Cyclops's plan for Hope to control the Phoenix sure worked out didn't it. NO HIS PLAN FAILED and no sign of anything on case it failed.   They new that their plan was likely wouldn't work out that's why they had several plans in place one of them Hope being off Earth.   

  You clearly wrote that Hope was going to blow up the moon. How do you know it wouldn't have flown away? Maybe it was going to fly past the earth? We don't know you're just assuming the worst. Just because Hope talked about being a bomb doesn't mean she was going to blow up it was a metaphor. 

Going to fly away. Fly past Earth? It came for her. It wasn't going to just fly away.  IIRC every time the host loses control the power lashes out.  Go back and read it without your X-Men  bias .   


Cyclops not getting his way?  

Yep That's right. When it looked like his power would be challenged he'd start to lose it. When people didn't fall in line with him he would lose it.

Seeing as Cykes plan was to make the world a better place 

I already explained how that was bad because of hi being unstable, and only creating a pretty bow on the problem
 

Caps plan was to defeat or even possibly kill the P5 


 With the danger that world was in by five unstable "gods" we could only hope he would succeed in defeating them so there would be a world to live in or people to live in it.  
Not that anything suggested Cap was planning on killing them because it looked nothing like that but if it's a choice between the Earth and 5 well four heroes (I don't concider Illiana a hero) then I'll choose the Earth/


it's more like Cap was upset that he wasn't getting his own way. Reed Richards even called Cap and Tony out on this.

eh No That was a load of bull and you'd know it. There was so much wrong with Reed's little speech it was ridicules. I won't go into all of it but just the fact him trying to say they weren't something like Galactus then later on admit they were in a dangerous situation because the Avengers didn't bow down just goes to show you he was wrong. 
You don't keep a bomb around that can blow at a sign of being pushed when you know it's going to be pushed at some time.  

  Cap didn't just want Hope off the planet otherwise he wouldn't have chased her to the moon Emma even read his mind and found that he wasn't going to leave without Hope. Cable might have not known everything but he knew more than the Avengers. He said that if the Avengers took Hope it would result in a terrible future. 

False assumption. If he didn't chase her to the moon the X-Men might have found her first. He had no way of knowing how what the X-Men knew. Also the moon wasn't far enough away. The moon get's destroyed the Earth goes bad.         See you are making false assumptions again. Cable made false assumption based off of faulty information. 
Which can be just as bad. That Guy even said he didn't have the full story and Cable was jumping to bad and false conclusions. For all we know Hope not being there could have been her not stopping the P5 when they went bonkers because people didn't tow the line. It was those jumping to conclusions it why that guy stopped Cable.

  She's a messiah in almost the same way as Jesus Christ (hope i'm not offending anyone just using him as an example). She was a miracle baby that was naturally brn post m-day and on the day of her return in second coming 5 new mutant appeared do you really believe it was all a coincidence. Just because not everyone believes her to be a messiah doesn't mean that she couldn't be one. Not everyone believed/believes in Jesus. 

OMG You're making a Hope and Jesus comparison. What little cred you had just flown out the window. Her being born was no more a miracle then the mutants who got to keep their powers were. It not being a coincidence doesn't make her a miracle or the messiah but the X-Men jumping to that conclusion  just because they couldn't figure it out makes was crazy. (and before you go accuse me of saying the X-Men were crazy I did not say that.)    Also not every X-Men or mutant bought into that bull. 

PF does not have a history of blowing up planets. Show me when it ever BLEW UP A PLANET. Once again it burned those planets when it flew by them it wasn't the phoenixs intention. 


The PF does to have a history of blowing up planets. You want scans go look for them. You'll find it. But lets be real blowing up planets. Burning everything killing everyone.  
ARE YOU KIDDING ME? YOU ACTUALLY THING THAT MUCH BETTER?   
   Of course the phoenix cares about the earth otherwise it wouldnt keep coming back. You're assuming the worst. 
 
And you're sticking your head in the said banking on the best.  NO the PF does not care about the Earth. All it cares about is it's one purpose. Destruction and creation.  
 
Why would the phoenix bother taking Hope as a host just to blow up the earth when it has enough power to do it alone. 
I already answered this.  Let me try a different way.  Why would a PF bother to take a host when it could do anything on it's own? Who said they had to be connected?
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I like the fact storm is attacking the pheonix force, but that has no effect. and what the heck is going on it looks like emma is helping scott but on the cover page she is attacking him.

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Edited By petes12

@PortlandsBatman: you mean that storm is throwing lightning at? its emma frost

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@Dernman: See, now here's the thing. If Cyclops is one of your favourite characters, how are you not acknowledging how much the man has sacrificed for the survival of the mutant race without the help of anyone else. He is completely justified in wanting to use the Phoenix Force to reignite the mutant gene; Hope is clearly destined to be united with the Phoenix Force. The bull with the Iron Fist is the perfect example of the writers attempting to justify The Avengers' actions when it's clear that they knew absolutely nothing about Hope nor the Phoenix Force. When have The Avengers ever been concerned about the Phoenix when it came to Earth the multiple times before now?

That's all I have to say on the matter. If you disagree, which you so very vocally do, and just assume that because I don't share your thoughts I'm ignoring everything you say, whatever. You are free to think that.

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Edited By dernman
@jcbart:

 See, now here's the thing. If Cyclops is one of your favourite characters, how are you not acknowledging how much the man has sacrificed for the survival of the mutant race without the help of anyone else. 


Who says I don't? Thinking he's wrong this time doesn't have anything to do with acknowledging that or liking him.  That's like saying oh because someone is  your favorite character you have to think he's right all the time and side with him.  
 

He is completely justified in wanting to use the Phoenix Force to reignite the mutant gene; 

He is completely justified in wanting the PF to do that but nothing more. Certainly not putting the world at risk. If he did it off planet like Hope tried to ( well I would have preferred it to be further out) then and she seemed to have control of the PF then I would have been more ok with his actions. Might want the PF gone afterwords though.

Hope is clearly destined to be united with the Phoenix Force. 

They had no idea until she came back she had anything to do with the PF and being destined to be united with it isn't necessarily a good thing. It could be good but it also could be bad.
 

 The bull with the Iron Fist   is the perfect example of the writers attempting to justify    The Avengers' actions 

 
It's not bull it's a real factor and part of the story. You can't dismiss it just because you don't like it. Whatever reason they had for putting it in there it is there. 
If the writers put it there to justify the Avengers action then you have to accept that there is justification. Only thing you get to decide is if it was enough..  
Regardless though I felt they were not totally reliant on it and had other justifications that I have already stated.

 when it's clear that they knew absolutely nothing about Hope nor the Phoenix Force.  

No it's not clear because its simply not true and I've already said why.

When have The Avengers ever been concerned about the Phoenix when it came to Earth the multiple times before now?

Like this? It hasn't happened since way before they were born. 
Like the times it was here while they were alive? Did they even know about it until after the fact? They also didn't have the doubt they now have in their decisions on how to handle it. Not to mention how I already stated the way I felt over the decisions they did make on how to handle it. Also only Jean came close the having this much of the PF and unlike the P5 it was meant for her.

That's all I have to say on the matter. If you disagree, which you so very vocally do, and just assume that because I don't share your thoughts I'm ignoring everything you say, whatever. You are free to think that.

I'm also vocal to match the the people I'm debating with or when I'm debating more then one person at the same time alone. Mostly I'm vocal when people don't listen to what I say. Several times I was accused of saying things I never said, misrepresented my position, and tried to debated me on things I never said.  This being the easiest one to find and not going through the effort of finding the others
   

You sound like one of those guys that thinks that America can have nuclear weapons but if any other country does it's an act of war and they are the bad guys. 

You could not get get anything like that out of what I said unless you didn't read and try to understand it. Any positions that would sound like that would not be anywhere near the position I was taking. That's not even counting they time my the points I was making were twisted, accused of have a position I didn't have, making a point I never made, and ignore the point I did make.You cant be honest and say those things didn't happen. Disagreeing with me had nothing to do with it. 
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jhazzroucher

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Edited By jhazzroucher

@JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:

Brevoort posted this and said it's from AvX #11:

No Caption Provided

really? wow!!! another awesome art! : )

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spekqj

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Edited By spekqj

@Dernman said:

I never questioned the ability of the PF. I only questioned it's intent and methods. Rachel never wielded the full power of the Phoenix nor when it actually had an intent of its own. Only one who came close is Jean and she ended up dying. Hope may have been a special person but it was foolish of him not take the actions of her failing.

Although I agree with you for the most parts, I'm afraid to say that you're wrong about Jean Grey. It is true that Jean had such a difficult moment to deal with Phoenix Force and ended up dying to prevent any further damages, but it happened only in Dark Phoenix Saga. Outside of this classic event, Jean was fairly successful at wielding the power of Phoenix. Actually, she's the only one who became the White Phoenix of the Crown, the most powerful and stable version that Phoenix avatar can ever achieve. Beside it was established she is a part of Phoenix Force itself and they're basically same being throughout the issues. Saying Jean failed to control the phoenix is not true at all.

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spekqj

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Edited By spekqj

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Illuminatus said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

WORST SERIES OF ALL TIME.

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One_Eye

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Edited By One_Eye

@spekqj said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Illuminatus said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

WORST SERIES OF ALL This event

Indeed this event is quite the let-down. Just wake me when it's over.

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Edited By trutrutru

I dont think cyclops was wrong in wanting the phoenix to host hope. When was the last time the arrival of the phoenix blew up or destroyed everyone on earth? Hope has been linked with the activation of the X-gene. It would be a fair assumption that the phoenix force, which is already coming for hope, would amplify her abilities to the point where she could give the mutant race a rebirth.

I understand the concern the avengers have. But they have never really involved themselves with the phoenix before, so i dont understand why captain america is so adamant about imposing his plan on the x-men to begin with. The avengers have done nothing but cause problems this entire Event.

had they left the x-men alone and allowed hope to receive the phoenix without the chaos and pressure it may have been a different story. One might even be able to argue that the avengers interfering as early as they did ultimately led to the less ideal conditions for a worried hope to receive the phoenix without being overwhelmed.

Also, the P5 existing is a direct result of the Avengers jumping the gun to fix a "problem" before taking the time to understand what exactly is going on.

And then even after the p5 happened and everything was going just fine. They had to kidnap hope. Which ultimately led to what is happening now.

people like to call bad judgement on cyclops; and although he makes the hard and risky decision sometimes, it usually pays off. The most recent i can remember off the top of my head is the reason for the splitting of the teams and wolverine forming a separate one. Wolverine didnt want the younger x-men fighting cause he didnt think they were ready, cyclops felt otherwise, cyclops was right. Cyclops has always been known for good leadership. There is little reason to not give the man the benefit of the doubt in most situations, especially ones he has a bit of experience in, like the phoenix.

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SexualLobster

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Edited By SexualLobster

Cyclops is being an irresponsible d*ck, end of story.

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Grey56

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Edited By Grey56

Ladies, imagine a man with a problem with all sorts of flash and bang but suffers from premature ejaculation - then imagine it as a comic. You'd be let down, right ? Now imagine him as a comic - that is what you are getting with this series.

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trutrutru

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Edited By trutrutru

@SexualLobster:

how so? when has the phoenix ever destroyed the earth or the people on it? Cause if it has never done so before, and has come to earth on many occasions, why would it now destroy the earth?

considering at every stage of this event its been the avengers who've done things to escalate the problem, i'd say its captain america who's being a dick.

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Novemberx2

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Edited By Novemberx2

boy this is worse then fear itself (although the biggest problem with Fear Itself was endless tie in's rather then the main series). the seems to be no focus going in to it, too many writers, too many artists, the real issues this series could of focused on have been ignored for mindless shots of lots of heroes fighting.

issue 1 - good

issue 2-5 pointless

6 - excellent,

6-8 - More pointless space filling

9-10 - good

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Jack Attack

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Edited By Jack Attack

I liked the X-Men when they were confined to their private corner of the Marvel Universe. I don't want them to get their angst all over the Avengers. I also liked it better when Thor was allowed to be Thor.

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SexualLobster

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Edited By SexualLobster

@trutrutru: It has shown that somebody unable to fully harness it is extremely dangerous.

So Cyclops being the Nazi he is these days thinks ''Hey man, let's risk everybody.. and I mean everybody, humans, and even the mutants I'm willing to be a nazi to protect.. for the off chance that Hope a fairly inexperienced mutant, who's very young and probably won't be able to handle the power can reignite the mutant 'race'.''

The Avengers aware of the Phoenix approaching went to put Hope into protective custody because you know.. the whole 'unstable force of basically limitless power' thing.

Yes, they brought the hellicarrier full of Avengers, because Cyclops isn't the most reasonable man these days, and Cap going alone would have probably ended in his death.

And as the world's premiere tea of heroes, are you saying you would just risk letting that power irresponsibly bond to some girl? Then you aren't doing your job very well.

Who didn't want to talk and just blasted Cyclops and attacked the hellicarrier incredibly hastily? Oh yea, the guy who's basically psychotic at this point.

Mind you, Cap did just show up, but it's not like that was good grounds to attack him, when Hope herself wanted to leave.

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Edited By Arctic37

You know what's bothering me? Nightcrawler died saving Hope, believing she is the mutant Messiah.

All the P5's are douchebags for being omnipotent and having the very power of death and rebirth, and not one of them even thinks of maybe bringing Nightcrawler back!

Cap is a douchebag for wanting to take Hope away when they discover the PhoenixForce is coming. Nightcrawler died so she could be free! (I know Hope wanted to go herself, but that's irrelevant; Cap would have taken her away either way).

Tony Stark is a douchebag for splitting the PF into 5 and causing it to enter the P5 instead of Hope. If Hope had become the Phoenix, she would have remembered the sacrifice Nightcrawler made and she would have brought him back!

Nightcrawler died for their sins.... therefore Nightcrawler is Jesus. And everybody knows that Jesus is more powerful than the PhoenixForce. So if someone would just have the common sense to resurrect him, he'd kick the PhoenixForce's ass, save the planet and restore the mutant race by himself. And then he'd shave Tony Stark's douchy goatee.

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jeanroygrant

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Edited By jeanroygrant

If Thor couldn't defeat Phoenix Emma Frost, than Storm has no chance what so ever.

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VesKaGan

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Edited By VesKaGan

@SexualLobster said:

So Cyclops being the Nazi he is these days thinks ''Hey man, let's risk everybody.. and I mean everybody, humans, and even the mutants I'm willing to be a nazi to protect.. for the off chance that Hope a fairly inexperienced mutant, who's very young and probably won't be able to handle the power can reignite the mutant 'race'.''

You really, really should look up the word "Nazi". -.-