Exclusive Preview: WORLDS' FINEST #21

@frozen:

What you are saying is rationally sound, but there are two ways at looking in things, like I mentioned before. He is meant to be stronger and is most likely stronger, but right now his feats don't live up to what writers are claiming him to be. You get what I mean? Because if we go back to the Sentry claim, I can back it up by stating how Moonstone stated that an unleashed Sentry would make HoM Wanda look like a joke, and how everyone basically states that Sentry has the power of a million exploding stars.

From where the story is progressing, Earth-2 Superman will most likely fight New-52 Superman sometime in the future. And given what everyone says (writers and characters), Brutaal should beat Clark, and cement him as being the stronger of the two.

@omgomgwtfwtf: That's not really a statement, it's an admission, it's nowhere near on the absurdity of Sentry beating Galactus, Superman made the statement that Manhunter is the most powerful, his admission would be that Manhunter is more powerful than him (there's evidence for that...). He took out the nanites. It's not really a matter of feats, it's a matter of why a character is created. When Earth 2 Superman made his appearance in the New-52, he was shown to be stronger. When he blasted New-52 Superman's nanites, he again was shown to be more powerful. It's just logic. My theory was that age = more powerful, and the scans proved it because that's how Brutaal was created, as a more powerful version.

There is no point in making a CAV for a version of Superman who by all means is intended to be stronger vs a version of Superman that is mainstream.

The easy way to put it, is while the characters Brutaal stomps don't have any feats, that's not what writers have in mind. They have in mind to get across that character is powerful. So, we have a version of Superman that's stomping all these different characters. What's going to happen when that same version meets the established Superman again? The scans showed it.

They are still going to write him to be exceptionally powerful. Superman being afraid of Brutaal's power should not really be surprising, it's only to be expected.

In that same comic, they make further references to his power.

@frozen:

My first post to you regarding this matter was about how Brutaal doesn't have the feats comparable to New-52 Superman to definitively prove he's stronger. I already agreed with you that Brutaal is supposed to be stronger, but feat wise, he hasn't proved it. Statements, while valid to a degree, don't exactly provide much substance. Characters make a lot of unsubstantiated claims in comics. For example, Superman saying that Martian Manhunter was the strongest person on the planet or how Spider-man stated that Sentry was able to fight and repel Galactus. Writers can make characters say whatever they want. As for your new scans, it's a pretty underhanded tactic to post new info that wasn't available to disprove a point that was made before this info was available.

There are two forms of thinking, rational and empirical. From a rational standpoint we can assume that Brutaal is stronger because according to the story it seems that way. However, with the empircal approach, we cannot say conclusively that Brutaal is stronger than New-52 Superman based solely on the feats available. With all that said, my care for this thread hasn't changed since my last response. If you really want validation, then go make a CaV with Brutaal and New-52 Superman, and see whether or not others agree with your point of view.

@omgomgwtfwtf: It turns out my theory is correct. In the tie-in Batman/Superman comic, New-52 Superman is afraid of Brutaal's power...

So your previous claims?

@omgomgwtfwtf: Perhaps you should read my posts before making such claims. I waited until issue 22 to make my response.

1. Yes. Earth 2 Superman appeared before the Earth 2 series. He met Prime Earth Superman during the annual and he was shown to be stronger because he's older and thus = more sunlight
2. No, I'm bottling the core of my point into one. His army is barely doing anything when every appearance and statement clearly shows that Superman is the principal threat, not his army
3. It 'set a country on fire'
4. His feat is stomping Alan Scott, to which I shall address in my next point. Exploding, and then causing such destruction that it levels 1/5 of The Earth is a signification of power. Look with your eyes, that is clearly what the explosion levelled
5. No. It isn't vague considering the subsequent explosion re-enforced his power level. Scott's power levels are fuelled by The Earth. To take Scott is a massive feat considering issue 22 shows us how durable he really is
6. So you still haven't answered my question. Was Steppenwolf skilful enough to sneak up on Wonder Woman?

@frozen:

This will be last post. I won't respond after this. I'm just invested enough to discuss any further, especially after a two-week hiatus.

1. I haven't read the Batman/Superman annual, so I can't comment on it.
2. It's a red herring because you are twisting and focusing on a part of my statement without looking at the whole thing. Evil Superman had help, he had an army large enough to invade and take over Earth. Whether or not he needed it is an entirely different matter. And your opinion about the army barely helping is subjective.
3. His Darkseid vision never obliterated a city.
4. Steppenwolf's death is inconsequential to his actual power level. He has no feats. So him exploding doesn't somehow validate his power level. And destroying "1/5 of the Earth" is clearly your opinion and not a stated fact in the comic.
5. Hyperbole is hyperbole. God is such a subjective word in comic books that simply saying he killed a god is pretty vague. Mister X has killed a god as well, but it really doesn't mean much.
6. I still can't believe you're still trying to argue that sneaking up on someone is not a cheap shot. So if my friend was fighting this guy and I crept up him behind and bashed his brains in with a bat, that would be a fair fight? Lastly, being skillful in sneaking up on someone is completely different from being able to actually beat them in a fair fight. I can sneak up behind a bigger man and kill him, would that mean that I was stronger or better skilled than him? No, it wouldn't. That is the entire point of deception.

@omgomgwtfwtf: It seems you do not know what I'm talking about on the first point. Earth 2 Superman has met New-52 Superman. They met during the Batman/Superman annual and Superman was young (in his T-shirt/jeans version). Earth 2 Superman was flat out more powerful because he was older and therefore absorbed more sunlight. That doesn't just go away - while New 52 Superman has undoubtedly became stronger, so did Earth 2 Superman. The annual flat out states he is stronger because he'll always be older. Period. That is why he's considered more powerful. DC is practically telling you so.

• They are against Superman. Prior to that, they were doing reasonably well. They only got slaughtered when Superman showed up. In the New-52, General Lane's army on Prime-Earth has often given Superman trouble
• You do know that his first appearance isn't in Earth 2? He met New-52 Superman during the Batman/Superman annual. He will always be more powerful, what you are seeing in Earth-2 is a more powerful version. At the start of the book, he was relatively overwhelmed and trying to keep his team together. When he returned, he was visibly more powerful. He wasn't even speed-blitzing in the beginning. His Darkseid vision obliterated an entire city
• It's not really a red herring argument, I've read the book to see his help is barely doing anything. He's the one that caused the explosion that destroyed 1/5 of The Earth. At the start of the book, he was captured by Darkseid's forces, now he tanked an explosion that is much more powerful
• No. It's a statement that happens during a feat. Alan is stomped into the ground, then The Earth is giving him back his energy and he regains full strength. That's a feat considering he got stomped and then The Earth re-fuels him. It's got nothing to do with Sentry's ''a million exploding suns'' hyperbole. Superman killing a god isn't baseless because we see the resulting explosion. That re-enforces the power levels. I actually waited until #22 to reply to your post
• How is it a cheap shot if she's in combat flat out murdering parademons? Was Steppenwolf not skilled to the point where he could sneak up on her?

@frozen:

I'm going to keep this short and brief because I really don't care about this thread anymore. It's been two weeks, I don't know why you decided to bring it back now.

1. Earth-2 Superman does not have the feats to suggest he's anymore stronger than New-52 Superman. Earth-2 Superman looks stronger because he has zero morals. That doesn't make him stronger, it just makes him more ruthless.

2. The World Army is fodder. They are the same as SHIELD and every other government agency in comics. They failed miserably at what they were supposedly created for, despite having years of prep.

3. There is no evidence to suggest that Earth-2 Superman got any significant upgrade from being turned evil. The only noticeable difference is his darkseid vision. Earth-2 Superman has very little feats to actually gauge what his power level is. So I really fail to see how you can so confidently say that he got a power boost. He did absolutely nothing noteworthy in the beginning issues of Earth-2.

4. He did not solo the Earth, it's apparent he had help. Whether or not he needed it is an entirely different issue and the fact that you chose to focus on that specific part pretty much equates to a red herring argument.

5. You're using offhanded statements as valid feats. Being powered by the Earth equates to what exactly? From what I see you like to indulge yourself with the premise regarding these characters, rather than the feats they actually produce. Being powered by the Earth is about as useful as Sentry's power of "a million exploding stars". This applies to everything else you say regarding other characters, like Jay Garrick's powers being from a "god" or Superman killing a "god". Such baseless statements hold no wait in an argument. They can neither be validated or quantified. This a fallacy of ambiguity.

6. Sneaking up on someone is still sneaking up on someone. It doesn't matter if they are trained. It was still a cheap shot. Diana's attention was preoccupied and she was focused on the enemies in front of her, not the guy creeping up from behind. Simply arguing that she should have been "aware" amounts to a tu quoque fallacy.

@omgomgwtfwtf:

• He doesn't need strength feats. He was already shown to be stronger than New-52 Superman in Batman/Superman because of his age. Before you begin to hopelessly scream ''that's Action Comics Superman!'' - the point still stands, his age would allow him to have the advantage
• The World Army > General Lane's Prime Earth army. The World Army were equipped to fight the forces of Apokolips
• They never underestimated the said enemy. They were outclassed. Superman is clearly less powerful in the beginning of Earth 2 than he is by the end. In the beginning, he doesn't have Darkseid vision, nor does he speed-blitz
• Good grief. Look at who's doing the damage - he's obliterating entire cities with his Darkseid vision. They're just minions to him
• Those two people did not really make much of a contribution in his own showings
• Yes, help which he does not need
• Nobody is arguing he's matching mainstream Flash. However he is utilizing speed and certainly did against Superman
• Wrong. That was when Flash just got his speed. He became much more adept to his speed thereafter
• I suggest you read issue 22 of Earth 2. It clearly shows that Alan's power is fueled by The Earth. Essentially, he can't die and is extremely powerful. Using him to say ''Steppenwolf was beating him'' doesn't help your argument
• Yes he has gotten more powerful. Look at him in the beginning of the book and then see how powerful he is at the moment. He wasn't holding back in the beginning either
• Also, the explosion resulted from Steppenwolf's death resulted in an explosion that obliterated atleast 1/5 of The Earth. That is clearly powerful and that cannot be denied
• He stabbed her by sneaking up on a skilled warrior. She was in combat - she should be aware
• The problem with your conjecture is that New-52 Superman's appearances hinder him in a way, for every great feat he has, he has a dozen more which put him at a lower level
• Irrelevant. The heroes have had to become adept to their power quickly - Alan's power has been showcased in the latest issue
• Wrong. Superman sucker-blitzes him and then gets knocked off his feet by a magically amplified punch. This is AFTER he had speed-blitzed him, and do you know what? Billy has barely been Shazam for that long or operated as him. That was Billy's first time flying too
• Irrelevant, the rock did not phase him

@frozen:

I'm perfectly aware that it's a low showing. Just as pushing at the weight of the Earth for 5 days is an incredibly high showing. A showing to which people are quick to accept in open arms. You are claiming that they are completely featless, they were resisting Steppenwolf. Ironic you bring up the army 'getting stomped into the ground' - that is exactly what Brutaal did to Dr Fate. The world army consisted of super-humans. If they were really that useless, they would have died in the first invasion, regardless of external help.

Even if we eliminate that single feat from Superman's repertoire, he has done things like shake the planet with his blows. Evil Superman doesn't have those strength feats.

I still fail to see how resisting Steppenwolf means anything. The World Army is featless fodder. That is what it is. There is no way you can spin it.

They didn't die during the first invasion because Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman were there, plus whichever other supers were present.

Clearly, the World Army didn't survive by the skins of their own teeth. It's pretty clear that they are incompetent at what they do and were completely underestimating their enemy.

He was the one slaughtering them and utilizing his abilities. He commanded them. It was clearly a solo mission.

No it wasn't, because it was a freaking invasion. I don't see how it's a solo mission when he has an army on his side, destroying things as well.

He also has other two people helping him, the magic skeleton and telepath.

Regardless of him commanding the army, he still had help.

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He ran from Lansing Michigan to Silesian Beskids Poland in seconds. That is beyond hypersonic.

Except he has never utilized that speed in combat. He can't even control himself when he runs that fast, so it's still pretty useless. He's not matching mainstream Flash when it comes to speed or reflexes.

Jay Garrick is so bad at fighting that freaking Hawkgirl has no problems defending herself from his failed blitzes.

Gallery

So Superman defeating him is really not that impressive, considering that Jay Garrick's plan was to just run away from him.

Only if Geoff Johns is writing Green Lantern. Alan is more powerful on Earth, that is the source of his power.

Excuses, dude, excuses. By your own admission, your saying that Steppenwolf is not stronger than Alan, who gets stomped by Superman?

That would imply that Steppenwolf is weaker than Superman.

So him dying very casually from Superman is not a feat for Superman, but merely a sign of how weak Steppenwolf is (a guy who is still featless, might I add).

You keep saying that he can replicate those same feats despite the fact that regular Superman has amassed showings which suggest otherwise. Brutaal isn't just 'evil Superman' - he has clearly been amplified in power.

Besides glowing eyes and a love for Darkseid, he hasn't gotten a visible power upgrade. What you are saying is pure conjecture at best. Aside from his omega-like beams, he has gained no additional powers.

Like I said before, he has done nothing that regular Superman couldn't do. Lifting the Washington Memorial and slamming it into the White House is something that Superman could do easily if he really cared to do so. The same with collapsing the World Army base.

No I didn't. You are acting as if she was half asleep. The previous page shows Superman admiring her skill and saying how strong she is. Her senses would be higher in combat opposed to being blissfully unaware of any such threat.

Except that Superman was clearly trying to warn Diana, who was completely oblivious to him being behind her, evident by her facial expression. He was behind her, while her attention was focused elsewhere, he didn't beat her in a legitimate fight.

You're the one who's saying that she is half-asleep, I made no mention of that. I said he snuck up on her, which he did. Pretty evident by the scan I posted.

I'm not going to discuss this point any further, the proof is pretty much in the scan.

Most of his showings do not put him close to Darkseid power amp. Using high end showings such as the weight of the Earth feat does not help your claim either. In many of his showings, he is getting smacked around in combat. He has not shown power-levels to the point where he can solo Earth 2.

I don't see how getting smacked around makes Superman weaker. He gets smacked around because he has morals and doesn't instantly decimate his foes like evil Superman. Superman has beaten people with actual feats, unlike evil Superman.

Superman has done more, has more showings, and better feats.

His combat and travel speed alone far surpasses evil Superman.

You claim the Earth 2 heroes were inexperienced and featless, yet New-52 Superman was knocked clean off his feet from a young, inexperienced featless Superman. This happened after Superman had speed-blitzed him.

Earth-2 heroes are experienced. It's not a claim. It's a literal fact. They haven't been heroes for even a year. I'm not making this shit up, it's literally stated so in the comic book.

So I'm really failing to see where the miscommunication is. Alan Scott has been Dr. Fate for all about a week (maybe) and Jay has been Flash for about an additional week (maybe).

None of them have the experience of their mainstream version or comparable feats.

As for the fight with Shazam, nothing happened. He got Superman pissed after punching him and Superman blitzes his ass again.

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Because if I really wanted to lowball characters, I could bring up the fact that evil Superman was hit by a rock thrown by Jay.

@omgomgwtfwtf:

So you now you are trying to lowball New-52 Superman by bringing up the Batman feat? Seriously dude? I'm not lowballing Earth-2 Superman, I'm literally stating that the people he fought have no substantial feats to actually make defeating them a remarkable task. The World Army is featless, it has done nothing noteworthy. "Combating Steppenwolf" is far from an actual feat, it holds as much weight as me saying "SHIELD has fought the Avengers". The World Army was losing versus Steppenwolf badly. They were getting stomped into the ground.

I'm perfectly aware that it's a low showing. Just as pushing at the weight of the Earth for 5 days is an incredibly high showing. A showing to which people are quick to accept in open arms. You are claiming that they are completely featless, they were resisting Steppenwolf. Ironic you bring up the army 'getting stomped into the ground' - that is exactly what Brutaal did to Dr Fate. The world army consisted of super-humans. If they were really that useless, they would have died in the first invasion, regardless of external help.

As for his help, so your telling me that he's entire army of Parademons and the rest of the goon squad didn't do anything? Especially considering that they were there to help him defeat the World Army. Your trying to attribute Superman's win over the World Army as a solo-mission, when it clearly wasn't.

He was the one slaughtering them and utilizing his abilities. He commanded them. It was clearly a solo mission.

Jay is hypersonic, your conjecture doesn't prove otherwise. Show me a movement feat that would put him past hypersonic. Blitzing people doesn't prove much, other than that he's moving faster than they can react. Which isn't difficult, given that he blitzes regular humans.

He ran from Lansing Michigan to Silesian Beskids Poland in seconds. That is beyond hypersonic.

Also, you have yet to show me how beating Alan Scott amounts to much. He literally blitzed him and step on his head. A feat that New-52 Superman could easily accomplish if he had the same morals as Evil Superman.

Only if Geoff Johns is writing Green Lantern. Alan is more powerful on Earth, that is the source of his power.

So, yet again, I ask you, show me something that makes him superior to New-52 Superman. Your hashing out feats that regular Supes could easily duplicate if he had the same mindset.

You keep saying that he can replicate those same feats despite the fact that regular Superman has amassed showings which suggest otherwise. Brutaal isn't just 'evil Superman' - he has clearly been amplified in power.

You claim that Steppenwolf didn't sneak up on her, but gave no valid reason. Just because she was in a battle, it somehow makes his feat valid? I mean seriously. He snuck up behind her and stabbed her. There is no other way to spin that scene around.

No I didn't. You are acting as if she was half asleep. The previous page shows Superman admiring her skill and saying how strong she is. Her senses would be higher in combat opposed to being blissfully unaware of any such threat.

I really don't see how you can claim Evil Superman has better feats, when New-52 Superman has many more showings and appears in several comics at once. His reservoir of feats is many times larger than Earth-2 Superman, and even accounting for his "low" showings, he's still better in every conceivable way.

Most of his showings do not put him close to Darkseid power amp. Using high end showings such as the weight of the Earth feat does not help your claim either. In many of his showings, he is getting smacked around in combat. He has not shown power-levels to the point where he can solo Earth 2.

You claim the Earth 2 heroes were inexperienced and featless, yet New-52 Superman was knocked clean off his feet from a young, inexperienced featless Superman. This happened after Superman had speed-blitzed him.

So you now you are trying to lowball New-52 Superman by bringing up the Batman feat? Seriously dude? I'm not lowballing Earth-2 Superman, I'm literally stating that the people he fought have no substantial feats to actually make defeating them a remarkable task. The World Army is featless, it has done nothing noteworthy. "Combating Steppenwolf" is far from an actual feat, it holds as much weight as me saying "SHIELD has fought the Avengers". The World Army was losing versus Steppenwolf badly. They were getting stomped into the ground.

As for his help, so your telling me that he's entire army of Parademons and the rest of the goon squad didn't do anything? Especially considering that they were there to help him defeat the World Army. Your trying to attribute Superman's win over the World Army as a solo-mission, when it clearly wasn't.

Jay is hypersonic, your conjecture doesn't prove otherwise. Show me a movement feat that would put him past hypersonic. Blitzing people doesn't prove much, other than that he's moving faster than they can react. Which isn't difficult, given that he blitzes regular humans.

Also, you have yet to show me how beating Alan Scott amounts to much. He literally blitzed him and step on his head. A feat that New-52 Superman could easily accomplish if he had the same morals as Evil Superman.

So, yet again, I ask you, show me something that makes him superior to New-52 Superman. Your hashing out feats that regular Supes could easily duplicate if he had the same mindset.

You claim that Steppenwolf didn't sneak up on her, but gave no valid reason. Just because she was in a battle, it somehow makes his feat valid? I mean seriously. He snuck up behind her and stabbed her. There is no other way to spin that scene around.

I really don't see how you can claim Evil Superman has better feats, when New-52 Superman has many more showings and appears in several comics at once. His reservoir of feats is many times larger than Earth-2 Superman, and even accounting for his "low" showings, he's still better in every conceivable way.

@omgomgwtfwtf:

don't see how taking down the World Army is significant, when regular Superman can do the same thing. Earth-2 Superman has no morals, so of course he would speed blitz them all. It's not a high end feat, given that he's fighting a human army with absolutely no track record. It's like saying SHIELD is not fodder, despite their titles and claims. It's all the same.

Also, it took him several days to destroy the entire World Army, not seconds. It took him several seconds to destroy the fleet that he was fighting and he had help when he did that.

As for the rest of your analysis, beating Jay is not impressive because he's nowhere near Flash in terms of speed. Jay is hypersonic at best (this is the guy who got tagged by Speedy). Beating Dr. Fate is also unimpressive, given that Earth-2 Superman was listening to their entire conversation and knew what they were planning. New-52 Dr. Fate is also lacking in terms of feats to say that he's comparable to his Pre-52 counterpart.

This applies to Steppenwolf too. He has no feats to make Earth-2 Superman killing him a good showing. All Steppenwolf ever did was kill Wonder Woman and he did it by sneaking up on her. Steppenwolf was getting beaten down by Alan Scott before he was saved by evil Supes.

No offence but New-52 Superman also has a plethora of showings against 'featless' characters. He also has showings such as bleeding from the punches of an enhanced Batman and getting knocked off his feat from Shazam . The world army are not featless to the extent you claim. They were combating Steppenwolf. Clearly they were not the regular army as they had the fire power to combat such threats. Blitzing them is a feat, considering the manner he did so. His 'help' paled in comparison to what he did. Darkseid's minions are of not much contribution to Earth 2 Superman.

Jay is not hypersonic. Initially, he was inexperienced but as he progressed he gained a better grasp of his powers and was capable of blitzing more efficiently. He obtained the full power of Mercury. Listening to their conversation does not matter either. He brutally beat him down.

Alan was not 'winning' either, he was holding his own and nearly died in that same comic.

Sneaking up on her? She wasn't half a sleep. She was killing hordes of parademons, to which Superman admired. She was clearly in combat and knew of the risks. New-52 Superman has not shown this level of power:

New-52 Superman could beat Earth-2 Superman without his Darkseid amp. But on consistent showings, he's below Earth 2 Superman. Unless he has his higher end showings with his lower end showings negated.

New-52 Superman is not the Earth One version. This is the Earth One Superman.

@frozen:

I don't see how taking down the World Army is significant, when regular Superman can do the same thing. Earth-2 Superman has no morals, so of course he would speed blitz them all. It's not a high end feat, given that he's fighting a human army with absolutely no track record. It's like saying SHIELD is not fodder, despite their titles and claims. It's all the same.

Also, it took him several days to destroy the entire World Army, not seconds. It took him several seconds to destroy the fleet that he was fighting and he had help when he did that.

As for the rest of your analysis, beating Jay is not impressive because he's nowhere near Flash in terms of speed. Jay is hypersonic at best (this is the guy who got tagged by Speedy). Beating Dr. Fate is also unimpressive, given that Earth-2 Superman was listening to their entire conversation and knew what they were planning. New-52 Dr. Fate is also lacking in terms of feats to say that he's comparable to his Pre-52 counterpart.

This applies to Steppenwolf too. He has no feats to make Earth-2 Superman killing him a high end feat. All Steppenwolf ever did was kill Wonder Woman and he did it by sneaking up on her. Steppenwolf was getting beaten down by Alan Scott before he was saved by evil Supes.

Earth-1 Superman has better feats in every department. He's fast enough to fly from Pluto to Earth faster than people could teleport there. He has better strength and durability showings as well.

Earth-2 Superman could be superior, but as of now, no feats suggest so.

@omgomgwtfwtf:

New-52 Superman has punched hard enough to make the Earth shake and can bench press the weight of the Earth for several days.

He has also struggled to lift a large hellicarrier (which I will also regard as low). The weight of the Earth feat is PIS, it is extremely inconsistent with his showings. Lobdell wrote that feat.

Earth 2 Superman has yet to do anything impressive. Beating up the World's Army is not that significant of a feat, given that they are fodder. The only thing he has that is different from Earth-1 Superman is the heat vision, which is similar to the omega beams in that it follows its target. Other than that, he hasn't done anything to put him on the level of Superman. Also, his "Darkseid amp" is never alluded to or even explained, so to say that he had any significant power upgrade is fallacious.

He has some of the best combat feats you could possibly ask for. Taking out the world army in seconds is impressive considering they were formidable and the way in which he did so, he also took out Steppenwolf. Bisecting Steppenwolf and tanking the explosion is impressive considering that explosion damaged atleast 1/5 of The Earth. He decimated Dr Fate. Easily defeated the JSA and caught Jay, who has the speed of a god. He clearly has a power amp. It is hardly fallacious considering Brutaal is clearly amplified.

The Earth One Superman is another Superman. That version is more in tune with the Man of Steel Superman. The New-52 Superman is the Prime Earth. New-52 Superman's consistent showings do not match up to Bruutal's, only his high end showings.

As for Supergirl, I never said that she was stronger than Earth-2 Superman. My point was that Supergirl has better feats than Power Girl and Power Girl is an older version of Supergirl. During their team up, Supergirl's base deemed that Power Girl was the superior Kryptonian and tried to kill Supergirl. Despite that, Power Girl has trouble beating giant dogs.

Supposedly Power Girl's powers are now fluctuating.

@frozen:

New-52 Superman has punched hard enough to make the Earth shake and can bench press the weight of the Earth for several days. Earth 2 Superman has yet to do anything impressive. Beating up the World's Army is not that significant of a feat, given that they are fodder. The only thing he has that is different from Earth-1 Superman is the heat vision, which is similar to the omega beams in that it follows its target. Other than that, he hasn't done anything to put him on the level of Superman. Also, his "Darkseid amp" is never alluded to or even explained, so to say that he had any significant power upgrade is fallacious.

As for Supergirl, I never said that she was stronger than Earth-2 Superman. My point was that Supergirl has better feats than Power Girl and Power Girl is an older version of Supergirl. During their team up, Supergirl's base deemed that Power Girl was the superior Kryptonian and tried to kill Supergirl. Despite that, Power Girl has trouble beating giant dogs.

@omgomgwtfwtf: Earth 2 Superman is significantly more powerful than Supergirl. He is more powerful than New-52 Superman given his new Darkseid power amp. He is unstoppable and has some of the best 'combat' feats for any version of Superman.

@frozen:

Earth 2 Superman is not more powerful than New-52 Supes.

Because she hasn't done anything yet?

Earth 2 Superman is much more powerful than New 52 Superman or Supergirl (PG's cousin)

just not into that book....at least DC is trying to do the gender flip thing and pay more attention to its female characters...

Great Job DC...This book is going read kind of goofy since part 3 was pushed back to April 16th!

lolol

I wouldn't mind seeing these two supes go for a nice brawl. can't wait.

@omgomgwtfwtf: Different universe, maybe?

@jonny_anonymous: Okay, glad I wasn't the only one confused by that.

It doesn't matter how strong PG is, it only matters how heavy she is and how hard Huntress hit her in an upward direction. The only thing she could do is fly/hover to try and recover, but maybe she was too surprised to do that. Anyone would be surprised if their friend suddenly took them down out of nowhere.

It doesn't make any sense at all that First Contact part 4 is coming out before part 3. Why wouldn't they just push this comic back a few weeks and have it come out the same day as Batman/Superman #9? I'm just gonna pick it up and then wait to read it.

Looks like an interesting comic. Might get it.

Also I am not that into the Huntress so I don't know if anything terrible happened to Bertinelli like them introducing her and killing her off as soon as the New 52 began or anything, but they can still have Wayne and Bertinelli. Maybe during the time when Huntress and Power Girl are back in Earth 2 we can see Bertinelli take influence from the Huntress and use that as her identity and Bertinelli can become the Huntress of Earth 1 or Prime Earth or whatever DC is calling the main universe.

Oh God, okay. I didn't realise how strongly you guys felt about it but I do agree that Bertinelli's murder was just... unnecessary's not a strong enough word. Earth 2 Bertinelli would be interesting to read but I don't think she'd be a very good Oracle. We're talking about Helena; she's got the patience of a tightly wound rubber band. She'd be a very bad Oracle to say the least

@dernman said:

Yeah, I saw that. I don't really get why they felt like doing this though, the whole thing feels almost like a parody.

this.

Yes!

QFT!

No kidding, I need her back right now. Helena Wayne is bland.

Except no, Bertinelli & Wayne are two entirely different characters, & this entire conversation about having one OR the other is just dumb as Helena Wayne exists after Bertinelli. I see Hal, Guy, John, & Kyle are all together, in fact they even added a pointless new GL.

Its disgusting because they did NOT have to murder Bertinelli, if they so badly wanted Helena Wayne to be Huntress, just put Bertinelli in a different costume. Cripple HER & let her become Oracle2.0

Or have Bertinelli exist on Earth-2 & she becomes a new Huntress after Wayne & PG vanish.

Haha. Okay

She used the Bat-Kick! If such a move can own Spectre then PG has no chance! :P

But real answer: PG's powers have been going on and off so I'm assuming at that moment her powers were off.

@omgomgwtfwtf: I don't think they've ever explained why, but I would love to know if they have or if anyone has any theories on why (multiverse jumping somehow weakening her?) Power Girl is so much weaker than Super Girl and Super Man.

Still hate Helena Wayne

That's another one. One more like the original already appeared in Team 7 but was killed at the end when Majestic destroyed the island.

Whu-what? That's Kaizen Gamorra? Oh God, it's like a bad joke...

She was always weak, even before Desaad's attack whacked out her powers. She has trouble versus like everything she fights.

Why is it that everytime I turn around members of that Bat-family are fighting those of the Superman-family. I don't read much DC at all so it's probably just chance that I keep running into these, lol.

I actually really like this crossover, it made me add World's Finest to my pull.

"My lovely Ken?" Tell me that's a Barbie reference. It's a Barbie reference, right? RIGHT?!

I don't mind her name being Helena WAYNE as long as we got to see the personality of BERTINELLI. Sure it would be a little different because of her circumstances growing up and all that but if she was still the foul-mouthed, impulsive, troubled (and perhaps slightly hyper-sexual) woman I came to love from Birds of Prey, she'd be fine.

Bring back Bertinelli!

This. It's kinda the reason this story got going, since Kara's powers just began to fluctuate wildly and it was getting increasingly dangerous.

@omgomgwtfwtf: Desaad attacked Power Girl with Apokoliptan technology that messed up her powers.