Exclusive Preview: WORLDS' FINEST #21

@omgomgwtfwtf:

• He doesn't need strength feats. He was already shown to be stronger than New-52 Superman in Batman/Superman because of his age. Before you begin to hopelessly scream ''that's Action Comics Superman!'' - the point still stands, his age would allow him to have the advantage
• The World Army > General Lane's Prime Earth army. The World Army were equipped to fight the forces of Apokolips
• They never underestimated the said enemy. They were outclassed. Superman is clearly less powerful in the beginning of Earth 2 than he is by the end. In the beginning, he doesn't have Darkseid vision, nor does he speed-blitz
• Good grief. Look at who's doing the damage - he's obliterating entire cities with his Darkseid vision. They're just minions to him
• Those two people did not really make much of a contribution in his own showings
• Yes, help which he does not need
• Nobody is arguing he's matching mainstream Flash. However he is utilizing speed and certainly did against Superman
• Wrong. That was when Flash just got his speed. He became much more adept to his speed thereafter
• I suggest you read issue 22 of Earth 2. It clearly shows that Alan's power is fueled by The Earth. Essentially, he can't die and is extremely powerful. Using him to say ''Steppenwolf was beating him'' doesn't help your argument
• Yes he has gotten more powerful. Look at him in the beginning of the book and then see how powerful he is at the moment. He wasn't holding back in the beginning either
• Also, the explosion resulted from Steppenwolf's death resulted in an explosion that obliterated atleast 1/5 of The Earth. That is clearly powerful and that cannot be denied
• He stabbed her by sneaking up on a skilled warrior. She was in combat - she should be aware
• The problem with your conjecture is that New-52 Superman's appearances hinder him in a way, for every great feat he has, he has a dozen more which put him at a lower level
• Irrelevant. The heroes have had to become adept to their power quickly - Alan's power has been showcased in the latest issue
• Wrong. Superman sucker-blitzes him and then gets knocked off his feet by a magically amplified punch. This is AFTER he had speed-blitzed him, and do you know what? Billy has barely been Shazam for that long or operated as him. That was Billy's first time flying too
• Irrelevant, the rock did not phase him

@frozen:

I'm going to keep this short and brief because I really don't care about this thread anymore. It's been two weeks, I don't know why you decided to bring it back now.

1. Earth-2 Superman does not have the feats to suggest he's anymore stronger than New-52 Superman. Earth-2 Superman looks stronger because he has zero morals. That doesn't make him stronger, it just makes him more ruthless.

2. The World Army is fodder. They are the same as SHIELD and every other government agency in comics. They failed miserably at what they were supposedly created for, despite having years of prep.

3. There is no evidence to suggest that Earth-2 Superman got any significant upgrade from being turned evil. The only noticeable difference is his darkseid vision. Earth-2 Superman has very little feats to actually gauge what his power level is. So I really fail to see how you can so confidently say that he got a power boost. He did absolutely nothing noteworthy in the beginning issues of Earth-2.

4. He did not solo the Earth, it's apparent he had help. Whether or not he needed it is an entirely different issue and the fact that you chose to focus on that specific part pretty much equates to a red herring argument.

5. You're using offhanded statements as valid feats. Being powered by the Earth equates to what exactly? From what I see you like to indulge yourself with the premise regarding these characters, rather than the feats they actually produce. Being powered by the Earth is about as useful as Sentry's power of "a million exploding stars". This applies to everything else you say regarding other characters, like Jay Garrick's powers being from a "god" or Superman killing a "god". Such baseless statements hold no wait in an argument. They can neither be validated or quantified. This a fallacy of ambiguity.

6. Sneaking up on someone is still sneaking up on someone. It doesn't matter if they are trained. It was still a cheap shot. Diana's attention was preoccupied and she was focused on the enemies in front of her, not the guy creeping up from behind. Simply arguing that she should have been "aware" amounts to a tu quoque fallacy.

@omgomgwtfwtf: It seems you do not know what I'm talking about on the first point. Earth 2 Superman has met New-52 Superman. They met during the Batman/Superman annual and Superman was young (in his T-shirt/jeans version). Earth 2 Superman was flat out more powerful because he was older and therefore absorbed more sunlight. That doesn't just go away - while New 52 Superman has undoubtedly became stronger, so did Earth 2 Superman. The annual flat out states he is stronger because he'll always be older. Period. That is why he's considered more powerful. DC is practically telling you so.

• They are against Superman. Prior to that, they were doing reasonably well. They only got slaughtered when Superman showed up. In the New-52, General Lane's army on Prime-Earth has often given Superman trouble
• You do know that his first appearance isn't in Earth 2? He met New-52 Superman during the Batman/Superman annual. He will always be more powerful, what you are seeing in Earth-2 is a more powerful version. At the start of the book, he was relatively overwhelmed and trying to keep his team together. When he returned, he was visibly more powerful. He wasn't even speed-blitzing in the beginning. His Darkseid vision obliterated an entire city
• It's not really a red herring argument, I've read the book to see his help is barely doing anything. He's the one that caused the explosion that destroyed 1/5 of The Earth. At the start of the book, he was captured by Darkseid's forces, now he tanked an explosion that is much more powerful
• No. It's a statement that happens during a feat. Alan is stomped into the ground, then The Earth is giving him back his energy and he regains full strength. That's a feat considering he got stomped and then The Earth re-fuels him. It's got nothing to do with Sentry's ''a million exploding suns'' hyperbole. Superman killing a god isn't baseless because we see the resulting explosion. That re-enforces the power levels. I actually waited until #22 to reply to your post
• How is it a cheap shot if she's in combat flat out murdering parademons? Was Steppenwolf not skilled to the point where he could sneak up on her?

@frozen:

This will be last post. I won't respond after this. I'm just invested enough to discuss any further, especially after a two-week hiatus.

1. I haven't read the Batman/Superman annual, so I can't comment on it.
2. It's a red herring because you are twisting and focusing on a part of my statement without looking at the whole thing. Evil Superman had help, he had an army large enough to invade and take over Earth. Whether or not he needed it is an entirely different matter. And your opinion about the army barely helping is subjective.
3. His Darkseid vision never obliterated a city.
4. Steppenwolf's death is inconsequential to his actual power level. He has no feats. So him exploding doesn't somehow validate his power level. And destroying "1/5 of the Earth" is clearly your opinion and not a stated fact in the comic.
5. Hyperbole is hyperbole. God is such a subjective word in comic books that simply saying he killed a god is pretty vague. Mister X has killed a god as well, but it really doesn't mean much.
6. I still can't believe you're still trying to argue that sneaking up on someone is not a cheap shot. So if my friend was fighting this guy and I crept up him behind and bashed his brains in with a bat, that would be a fair fight? Lastly, being skillful in sneaking up on someone is completely different from being able to actually beat them in a fair fight. I can sneak up behind a bigger man and kill him, would that mean that I was stronger or better skilled than him? No, it wouldn't. That is the entire point of deception.

@omgomgwtfwtf: Perhaps you should read my posts before making such claims. I waited until issue 22 to make my response.

1. Yes. Earth 2 Superman appeared before the Earth 2 series. He met Prime Earth Superman during the annual and he was shown to be stronger because he's older and thus = more sunlight
2. No, I'm bottling the core of my point into one. His army is barely doing anything when every appearance and statement clearly shows that Superman is the principal threat, not his army
3. It 'set a country on fire'
4. His feat is stomping Alan Scott, to which I shall address in my next point. Exploding, and then causing such destruction that it levels 1/5 of The Earth is a signification of power. Look with your eyes, that is clearly what the explosion levelled
5. No. It isn't vague considering the subsequent explosion re-enforced his power level. Scott's power levels are fuelled by The Earth. To take Scott is a massive feat considering issue 22 shows us how durable he really is
6. So you still haven't answered my question. Was Steppenwolf skilful enough to sneak up on Wonder Woman?

@omgomgwtfwtf: It turns out my theory is correct. In the tie-in Batman/Superman comic, New-52 Superman is afraid of Brutaal's power...

So your previous claims?

@frozen:

My first post to you regarding this matter was about how Brutaal doesn't have the feats comparable to New-52 Superman to definitively prove he's stronger. I already agreed with you that Brutaal is supposed to be stronger, but feat wise, he hasn't proved it. Statements, while valid to a degree, don't exactly provide much substance. Characters make a lot of unsubstantiated claims in comics. For example, Superman saying that Martian Manhunter was the strongest person on the planet or how Spider-man stated that Sentry was able to fight and repel Galactus. Writers can make characters say whatever they want. As for your new scans, it's a pretty underhanded tactic to post new info that wasn't available to disprove a point that was made before this info was available.

There are two forms of thinking, rational and empirical. From a rational standpoint we can assume that Brutaal is stronger because according to the story it seems that way. However, with the empircal approach, we cannot say conclusively that Brutaal is stronger than New-52 Superman based solely on the feats available. With all that said, my care for this thread hasn't changed since my last response. If you really want validation, then go make a CaV with Brutaal and New-52 Superman, and see whether or not others agree with your point of view.

@omgomgwtfwtf: That's not really a statement, it's an admission, it's nowhere near on the absurdity of Sentry beating Galactus, Superman made the statement that Manhunter is the most powerful, his admission would be that Manhunter is more powerful than him (there's evidence for that...). He took out the nanites. It's not really a matter of feats, it's a matter of why a character is created. When Earth 2 Superman made his appearance in the New-52, he was shown to be stronger. When he blasted New-52 Superman's nanites, he again was shown to be more powerful. It's just logic. My theory was that age = more powerful, and the scans proved it because that's how Brutaal was created, as a more powerful version.

There is no point in making a CAV for a version of Superman who by all means is intended to be stronger vs a version of Superman that is mainstream.

The easy way to put it, is while the characters Brutaal stomps don't have any feats, that's not what writers have in mind. They have in mind to get across that character is powerful. So, we have a version of Superman that's stomping all these different characters. What's going to happen when that same version meets the established Superman again? The scans showed it.

They are still going to write him to be exceptionally powerful. Superman being afraid of Brutaal's power should not really be surprising, it's only to be expected.

In that same comic, they make further references to his power.

@frozen:

What you are saying is rationally sound, but there are two ways at looking in things, like I mentioned before. He is meant to be stronger and is most likely stronger, but right now his feats don't live up to what writers are claiming him to be. You get what I mean? Because if we go back to the Sentry claim, I can back it up by stating how Moonstone stated that an unleashed Sentry would make HoM Wanda look like a joke, and how everyone basically states that Sentry has the power of a million exploding stars.

From where the story is progressing, Earth-2 Superman will most likely fight New-52 Superman sometime in the future. And given what everyone says (writers and characters), Brutaal should beat Clark, and cement him as being the stronger of the two.