Comic Vine News

103 Comments

Does Batman Always Win? Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles vs. Batman

Can the heroes in a half shell defeat The Dark Knight? Come find out what we think!

While I love writing every edition of this monthly feature, this one has me beyond thrilled. It's DC's most famous street level hero against Master Splinter's iconic students. If the younger me knew I'd one day have the opportunity to write about this, I think my head would have probably exploded.

Batman has decades upon decades of showings which support why he's such a formidable street level character. Thanks to those countless issues, we're able to speculate fairly accurately about how'd he operate in a fight. We all know the basics when it comes to the Caped Crusader: the impressive gear, the incredibly talented hand-to-hand abilities and the brilliant mindset. IDW's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, though? They don't have the same luxury. We've seen plenty to help get a decent read on them, but when it comes to their limitations and some important specifics there's a lot left to speculation. Because of this, I reached out IDW to get some cement answers on key questions I had about the group. TMNT artist and writer Mateus Santolouco was kind enough to provide his thoughts and I can now determine a winner with total confidence.

To make sure the segment is neutral, the matches will always be a random encounter (this means neither has knowledge on the other or prep time) and in a generic, unpopulated city setting at night (NOT Gotham). They'll start roughly 50 feet apart, have their standard gear and they will be in character. Naturally, they have the objective to defeat the other character. Just like over in the Battles Forums, the winner will be declared based on who I think takes the most victories in this scenario if it played out 10 times. Additionally, it's worth noting that this segment is treating all pre-New 52 Batman feats as canon (New Earth, of course).

Will numbers prevail or will Batman school them? Read on to find out!

Fighting Skill

There's no doubt in my mind that the Turtles are damn good. Each trains excessively with their weapon of choice -- initially under a strict routine with Splinter, and now with Leo as they move across the rooftops. Despite years of training, they are not considered "masters" with their respective weapons, and, as seen in TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES #21, they've still got a lot to learn. Splinter totally toyed with them and whooped them all over the city -- and I do mean whooped.

What's especially interesting is Mateus told me that he places Splinter on basically the same level of Batman, too. So, if Splinter can utterly humiliate them when his goal is to prove a point and not keep them down for the count, imagine what'll happen when a determined Batman wants to knock their lights out? As for Shredder, he has also proven to be more than enough for the Turtles. They were only able to overcome thanks to his arrogance and eventually realizing they need to work together. Against Splinter, they were too frustrated to apparently reach that conclusion -- and that's something which will be discussed in a section below.

Edge: Batman, but the Turtles deserve respect.

Equipment

We all know what the Turtles are bringing to the table with this one. They each rock their weapons quite well, and while I love Mikey and Donny, it's Leo's blades and Raph's sais that'll play the biggest role if weapons connect. Additionally, the Turtles use shurikens from time to time. This is a weapon Batman is perfectly capable of deflecting or dodging, but one could potentially slip under the radar while he's outnumbered, too.

Regardless, this variety of melee weapons and ninja stars just don't compare to the technology at Batman's disposal. Basic batarangs won't accomplish anything more than a momentary diversion, but he's also sporting plenty of options that can hugely hinder the Turtles. Gas, electric, smoke, cryo, incendiary... and that's just covering the basics. Simply put: he has way more options at his disposal and, if used properly, each of them (generic batarangs aside) can serve as a big game changer.

Edge: Batman, though nothing is cooler than Donny wielding his bo staff.

Mentality

Leo's been a solid leader, but they're still young and by no means tactical geniuses. Also, while they do have some shining moments of teamwork, their ability to work as a fluid team isn't consistent and they aren't bringing any big tactical advantages to the table in their methods. The latest ongoing issue proved that Raph's still a hothead and doesn't think twice about disobeying Leo and jumping head first into a fight... even if he's clearly outmatched. Donny's a genius when it comes to prep time, but in a random encounter? That big brain won't do much in this scenario. Numbers should warrant an edge, but when the group doesn't act as a team most of the time, it'll only lead to a quicker downfall. The longer this match goes on, the more potential they have to work together like they did against Shredder. However, I don't think it's likely Batman will give them that kind of time. Wayne of course won't go for the kill, but seeing as he's outnumbered, there's no reason to believe he won't aim to swiftly knock out or incapacitate his targets to even the odds and, in turn, reduce the potential of getting smacked in the back. And seeing as he's outnumbered, it's logical to believe he'll utilize some of his gear in quite a few of the encounters, too.

Edge: Definitely Batman.

Physicals

This was one of the key questions I had for Mateus. We've seen the Turtles display impressive running speed (as noted by the Neutrinos) and their reflexes are solid enough to deflect arrows and lasers with their weapons. While these are totally praiseworthy, I couldn't help but wonder how the Turtles would technically be classified. Peak human? Enhanced? Superhuman? Mateus informs me that thanks to the mutation the Turtles are in fact low-level superman, therefore making them slightly above Wayne when it comes to physicals. Yes, Batman has better strength and endurance feats at the moment, but the Turtles appear to have him edged out on speed and reflexes. Plus, their shells grants additional durability. Seeing as Batman is peak human and the Turtles are being classified as low-level superhuman, I of course have to give this one to the four brothers.

Edge: TMNT finally takes an edge (although not a large one). Huzzah!

Verdict

The Turtles do have a numbers advantage and could eventually turn the tide thanks to this, but Splinter (and Shredder) proved they don't hold their own very well against a character who has mastered numerous styles. And Batman? He's kind of mastered 127 different forms, so the Turtles are about to enter a world of hurt. Last time I checked, that certainly qualifies as knowing a lot. It's fun to speculate that numbers will overcome skill, but the latest issue of the ongoing series simply proves otherwise. Perhaps if this was made a year or two from now it would go down differently, seeing as the Turtles are about to undergo far more intense and varied training. But this isn't being made a year from now -- it's being made now, and the current Turtles just don't have the moves to compete with Bruce.

Harsh, Bruce.

Winner: Batman takes 7-8/10. It's a massively entertaining fight and the Turtles give it their all, but Batman's ample skill advantage and game changing equipment should win the day.

I absolutely favor Batman in this one, but what does fellow Comic Vine staff writer Mat 'Inferiorego' Elfring think about this battle?

"Yeah, the Ninja Turtles are super-cool and all, and this is a 4-on-1 battle, but there's no way they can beat Batman. Sure, the Turtles have a lot of training, but they're turtles, and turtles are cold blooded creatures. Batman already knows this, and he's already prepared to lower the temperature in order to slow their movements and beat them down with their own weapons. On top of that, Batman is well aware that turtles love eating celery and lettuce. Also, turtles look really cute eating it."

There you have it, folks. We agree that Batman clearly takes the victory (though Mat thinks Batman wins in a far more adorable method). What do you think, Viners? Speak your mind in the comments section below!

Want more Batman battles?

Gregg Katzman is a freelance writer for Comic Vine and IGN Entertainment. This is the part where he shamelessly plugs his Google+ and Twitter page in hopes of getting a new follower or two.

105 Comments
  • 105 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
Edited by AllStarSuperman

First

Edited by sethysquare

Second

Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus

The only thing that the Turtles have going for them is the fact that their powers are mutant-meta based. Bruce is only human and has no powers, therefore any reflexes or response time or quick movements he could make could potentially be befuddled by TMNT's innate strengthened abilities. Unfortunately that's not enough to give them victory, for as the Batman has done time and time again, he has beaten foes with powers far greater than him. To the victory goes the Caped Crusader I say.

Posted by mrdecepticonleader

Great article and I agree with the verdict.

Posted by AllStarSuperman

Not again, katzman are you the one doing that to me? Anyway I agree batman beats the new turtles but if feats from the TMNT cartoon counted he would lose.

Edited by k4tzm4n

@allstarsuperman said:

Not again, katzman are you the one doing that to me? Anyway I agree batman beats the new turtles but if feats from the TMNT cartoon counted he would lose.

Doing what?

Edited by k4tzm4n

The only thing that the Turtles have going for them is the fact that their powers are mutant-meta based. Bruce is only human and has no powers, therefore any reflexes or response time or quick movements he could make could potentially be befuddled by TMNT's innate strengthened abilities. Unfortunately that's not enough to give them victory, for as the Batman has done time and time again, he has beaten foes with powers far greater than him. To the victory goes the Caped Crusader I say.

*high five*

Great article and I agree with the verdict.

Thanks!

Posted by SavageDragon

Agreed. But who is better at improvising a dance to hip hop? Turtles. Have you ever seen a turtle geeeeettt doowwwn? ICEMAN.

Go ninja go ninja go!

Posted by w0nd

4 against one and they could barely beat shredder

@k4tzm4n said:

@allstarsuperman said:

Not again, katzman are you the one doing that to me? Anyway I agree batman beats the new turtles but if feats from the TMNT cartoon counted he would lose.

Doing what?

yeah what feats? they haven't done anything that he couldn't do? they haven't display super speed or strength, they barely beat shredder or splinter when it's 4 vs 1

Posted by Raw_Material

Nice battle discussion K4tz.

Wish TMNT took this one, though I agree with the information and statements that you've mentioned. If they have a difficult time dealing with Splinter and Shredder, then what makes us think that they'll be able to work together and take down Batman? The turtles are also not used to fighting against those with diversity in martial art styles like Batman and will without a doubt get frustrated with his h2h combat skills and gadgets as well.

Posted by Raw_Material

Maybe we can see a Batman vs Spider-Man or Aquaman article sometime soon!

Posted by Fuchsia_Nightingale

TMMT

Posted by NICKXH

Of course Batman wins. Those heroes in a half shell have no chance.

Edited by Stronger

Agreed!

Posted by Mezmero

They're teenagers for crying out loud. Of course they can't win. If none of the robins could beat him there's no reason to think mutated turtles would be able to. It's not a matter of skill it's a matter of experience.

Posted by knighthood

drug the pizza

Posted by BlueLantern1995

I hate to admit it but the Turtles lose this match. All the points are valid and I can't find any way to refute them...good job pal...

Edited by danhimself

I think this would have gone a lot better if it were the original Mirage Turtles.....even at the beginning of the run they had already trained for around 14-15 years and easily dispatched the Shredder in the first issue....with those Turtles I would give it to them probably 4-5 times out of 10...now if it were the Turtles from the end of the Mirage run then that's a different story...by that time the Turtles were in their early 30's so they would have been training for dang near their entire lives...at that point I'd give it to them a 7-8 times out of 10

Posted by jaminligo

C'mon who in their right minds didnt know Batman would win....plus TMNT are excactly what they are! teenagers, i dont ever see thwm growing up...but good article...

Posted by Veshark

Great article, I love the Batman vs. posts that you write - they're always very well thought-out and entertaining.

Turtles do look adorable eating vegetables, though.

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

Kinda wish it was Splinter Vs Batman

Edited by Fetts

Only K4tzman...

Looking good though!

Posted by Lvenger

I always thought Batman could beat the Turtles but from the looks of things here, he outclasses them in a big way! Also I was interested in knowing whether the Turtles had low level superhuman stats given how in many versions, they've performed feats beyond the normal human limitations and I'm glad we have confirmation on that. Great article Gregg!

Posted by The Mighty Monarch
Edited by Sidious

Ya! Batman wins.

Wait. Was this even a question?

Posted by G_Money_Christmas

I agree that Batman wins. Even though the Turtles are currently my favorite characters, I have to give it to Batman. Splinter absolutely tore them up... I don't think they even hit him once, no more than twice, at the most and Splinter and Batman are roughly on the same level.

Kinda wish it was Splinter Vs Batman

Agreed. I thought that when I first started reading.

Edited by SUNMAN

Turtles together would run roughshod over Batman. Anything else is jobbing

Edited by Pokergeist

@k4tzm4n:

I am kinda confused why you went with Pre 52 Batman. Is it becuase he is the typical standard for awsome? Anyway I think New 52 Batman would have been fair for the Turtles.

As mention your taking a huge feat list of Pre 52 Batman and comparing it to hardly any feats yet IDW TMNT. Anyway I just wanted to know why Pre 52 Batman more than anything.

Posted by ULTRAstarkiller

Nice one

Edited by HellionVulcan

I'd rather see Master Splinter take on Batman as i think the human mouse would win .

Posted by RustyRoy

I thought you said Robin's gonna be in this fight? Anyway another great article.

Posted by BaneStrokeLoboGrundyBatArrow

Loved the article!

Posted by Sammo21

This all depends on which version of each, honestly. I would say if this were the turtles in their prime from the original series they would take on Batman with no problem. Heck, they wouldn't have a problem killing him either.

Posted by SMC92

Wait if your using the young/naive Turtles shouldn't you also be using a young Bruce/Batman?

Posted by spinningbirdcake

Noooooo!!!!

But the Turtles...but...I like them more... :(

Edited by Lurkero

Batman vs Ninja Turtles is too easy, Katzman.

I'll toss a couple of my favorites out there. It's only fun to compare Batman to super powered characters in my opinion.

Batman vs Storm

Batman vs Magneto

Batman vs Flash

Posted by ThorBoy

Mirage turtles would slice and dice the bat and leave him for dead. No fair using 60 + years of batman lore and using 2 years of the turtles almost thirty year existence

Edited by k4tzm4n

General reply:

-Thanks for all of the compliments.

-Splinter would be a closer match, but I'd still favor Bruce. Mateus says they're roughly equal, and that makes Wayne's gear a huge variable to help decide the difference.

-As for Magneto, he's way too powerful for this thread. When it comes to Storm... I think the internet would implode if I made that.

-Why IDW? Because I want to use current versions for all characters. Additionally, a small part of me hopes this will also motivate people to pick up the current ongoing.

-I saw a remark about Batman being pre-52 -- that's not what the OP says. It says I consider feats before the relaunch as canon, because unless otherwise stated, they're being treated as such anyway in the comics (at least, that's the last I heard on it).

Edited by Esquire

@k4tzm4n Quick editing gripes:

Fighting Skill: First it says "Whopped," then you say, "and I do mean whooped." Probably want to make them the same word.

Mentality: "their ability to work as a fluid isn't consistent" I assume you want to add 'team' after fluid. In the same paragraph, you describe Raphael as a 'hotheat' when I assume you want 'hothead.'

Posted by k4tzm4n

@esquire said:

@k4tzm4n Quick editing gripes:

Fighting Skill: First it says "Whopped," then you say, "and I do mean whooped." Probably want to make them the same word.

Mentality: "their ability to work as a fluid isn't consistent" I assume you want to add 'team' after fluid. In the same paragraph, you describe Raphael as a 'hotheat' when I assume you want 'hothead.'

Ah, thank you for catching those! I was up late working on this one.

Posted by Batman242

Maybe we can see a Batman vs Spider-Man or Aquaman article sometime soon!

I see no way for Batman winning against either without gadgets and or prep. When it comes to skill though, he's better (in terms of martial arts of course).

As for this post, I agree with the verdict.

Posted by Shallbecomeabattoo

I love this feature so much! Apart from the podcasts its my favorite thing on comicvine! The month long wait is killing me every time, but its always worth it.

Hey, how about Batman vs. Cyclops or Punisher

Edited by StMichalofWilson

Why fight against each other? Batman should be training the TMNT! Plus I would like to see Bats face off against Master Splinter, Usagii, Agent Bishop, or the Foot Clan, especially Shredder!

Posted by DeathpooltheT1000

I get the joke they are ninjas, Batmans is a ninja, now stop it.

Edited by Saren

Spite; BP easily depowered Storm in AvX and he is just black Batman.

Batman vs Magneto

Spite; Iron Man kicked Maggie's ass in AvX and he is just armored Batman.

Batman vs Flash

Spite; Flash is already scared sh!tless of Batman.

Moderator Online
Posted by QuantomMan

Duuuuuuddddeeee......SUPER great choice this week Greg. I grew up with the turtles so they definately have a soft spot for me. But man! fair fight and evaluation indeed.

Posted by Lurkero

@citizenbane:

I am not suggesting that Katzman look at it from a comic writer's perspective. I am suggesting that he "realistically" analyze Batman's potential to fight back against these fantasy people.

Flash is only afraid of Batman because the writers made him that way. If Flash wanted to he could literally incapacitate Batman in the blink of an eye. Batman should not be able to compete, but he does because he has been written that way.

Posted by etragedy

Despite what kiddies raise with 'Turtles on Ice' might believe - the TMNT are not human sized (nor was Splinter who was a rat) originally April had to bend down to talk to them.

Can Batman beat four little twerpy things wielding martial arts weapons who are also mental midgets?

Pfftt... he could to it with one arm tied behind his back.

Edited by ekrolo

@sammo21:Yeah because Batman totally doesn't have any experience fighting deadly ninja/assassin style enemies (sarcasm). While the old Mirage versions would definitely go all out on him, thats pretty much the only difference between them and the version used here. Batman has had plenty of experience fighting deadly assassins that have no problem killing and those guys could also kick the Mirage TMNTs ass. I seriously doubt they could beat Deathstroke or Lady Shiva, let alone Batman.

Posted by Sammo21

This is the problem with Batman and asking people who they think will win. They always want Batman to win and will go to any length to conceive reasons why. Batman is a broken character which is why over the last decade I have been getting drawn more and more away from him.

  • 105 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3