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Does Batman always win? Batman vs Captain America

Steve Rogers versus Bruce Wayne is without question one of the most heated debates in comic book history. Does Batman "always win" or is the super soldier going to take him down? We provide our thoughts!


Place your bets.

"Batman always wins. Why? Because... he's Batman."

That's an on-going joke surrounding the character, but I thought I'd take it a step further and have some fun with the statement. "Does Batman always win?" will hopefully be a monthly feature where I'll pit Batman in close match ups, weigh the advantages of each combatant, and then declare a winner (just like I did with Movie Dredd vs Movie Batman). The battle will always be standard comic book versions with their standard gear and it will take place in a neutral setting: a traditional and unpopulated city block at night. This will be a random encounter with ample starting distance. That means there's no prep!

Don't make him "one punch!" you, Hal.

Why Batman? Batman is simply a human at the end of the day, and that makes his accomplishments that much more impressive. Not only is Batman one of the most well known comic book characters around, he also demands your respect as a combatant. Even if you don't like him, you still have to admire the fact that he's extraordinary skilled, brilliant and has a huge array of equipment packed away in that belt of his. He can hang with some of the best and most dangerous street level characters around, and since that's the level I'm the most knowledgeable on, I'm excited for many of the matches I have in store for all of you (I'm welcome to suggestions, too!).

I present to you my first "Does Batman always win?" segment: Batman vs Captain America. Both are accomplished tacticians and highly talented combatants, but they each bring drastically different advantages to the table. They've faced before in non-canon crossovers and both times they were pretty evenly matched. Do I agree with that or do I think one should clearly be the victor? Read on to find out!

Captain America's advantages

There's no bat spray to counter a shield to the face.

Bruce Wayne has reached peak human condition with years of dedicated training. He was chopping through bricks and kicking down trees at just 25 years-old, but despite being beyond what any real-life human is capable of, Captain America is still his physical superior. Thanks to the Super-Soldier Serum, Captain America is technically defined as enhanced human and this provides him with strength, speed and endurance above The Dark Knight.

Captain America has been seen bench pressing 1,100 lbs and is capable of running a mile in just over a minute. While top running speed isn't the most critical factor, it still plays a role and proves that given the opportunity, Steve Rogers can absolutely keep pace with Bruce Wayne. In fights, strength is always a big factor. It means strikes can be more powerful and he can overcome in the event of a grapple. And with endurance, it obviously means the Super-Soldier won't fatigue as quickly as Wayne. That's not to discredit Wayne in that regard, of course. The events of 'Knightfall' prove Wayne can push his body to absurd limits, but Captain America simply has the unfair advantage of the SSS.

Agility that shouldn't be underestimated.

On top of being physically superior, Captain America has the perfect offensive/defensive weapon at his disposal: a virtually unbreakable shield. In Cap's hands, the shield is a colorful weapon worthy of your fear. Not only can he wield it incredibly well when it comes to striking his opponent in close combat, but he can also throw it with a ridiculous amount of accuracy (he's managed to turn off a lighter on the floor), has the technical mind needed to calculate amazing ricochet shots, and can use it to block a majority of incoming attacks. To me, ricochet shots are quite a wildcard worth taking into account here. The disc to the back of the head or torso is sure to throw someone (yes, even Batman) off their game.

Additionally, Captain America has made the claim that he can simply "see faster" than regular humans, and that grants him the reflexes to use the weapon with incredibly efficiency when it comes to defensive measures. That's going to be key here considering Batman has the edge in hand-to-hand capabilities.

Naturally, Captain America has some experience facing characters similar to Batman. He's had a few fights with Daredevil (though most have had significant factors) and had no real trouble holding his own (in all of them except for the recent one in Waid's DD), taken down Taskmaster, has proven to be roughly equal to Black Panther, and had a close encounter with classic Iron Fist.

Batman's advantages

Can skill overcome physicals?

While Captain America has Batman outclassed physically and has one incredibly resourceful weapon, Bruce Wayne has some praise worthy advantages of his own. First and foremost, Batman is more skilled than Captain America. Rogers is very talented in his own right (once claimed to be adept at every style), but Batman has a level of skill that few street levelers can compete with. Somehow through years of extensive studying, his Bat brain has "perfected every known fighting discipline." (JLA: The Ultimate Guide to the Justice League of America). Not only is he more talented than Rogers in unarmed combat,but Dick Grayson has also made the claim that Wayne knows every single pressure point -- and we've seen Wayne disable foes with nerve strikes quite a few times before.

Shoryuken!

But, this isn't unarmed combat. Captain America has his shield and luckily for Batman, he has a wealthy amount of weaponry at his disposal. While Captain America has just one weapon (albeit an impressive one), The Dark Knight has variety on his side. America's super soldier has no counter for a cryo pellet, various gases, smoke pellets, light explosives and electric attacks. That's barely even scratching the surface of what Wayne can implement in combat, too.

Smoke pellets can further compliment Batman's already beyond impressive stealth capabilities as well. Batman has flawlessly vanished while he was right in the target's line of sight. To me, this totally defies logic, but it's a consistent feat in his career and therefore something he can do on a regular basis. If needed, Batman can use this environment to his advantage with proper use of his smoke pellets and grappling line. From there, it's a game of ninja cat versus steroids cat. Batman can regain the edge thanks to his stealth, but at the same rate, there's no guarantee the strike will be a critical game changer.

Batman has an extensive history of fighting characters physically superior to him. Deathstroke would be a prime example of this (since he's also enhanced). While Deathstroke has made short work of him, it's worth noting that Batman didn't implement his gear and Slade Wilson is, as he bluntly stated himself, more vicious and trained to kill. While Rogers has no problem crossing that line when required, it's not in character for him to be that aggressive in this encounter. Then there's Bane, a man of course less powerful than Captain America (off venom since that's how a majority of their fights went down), but still Batman has been able to overcome him thanks to his greater talent in martial arts.

The Verdict

Flip a coin.

Of course these characters fluctuate from writer to writer, but I believe that written to their full potential and thrown into this scenario, the outcome would be a stalemate. To think either has a blatant advantage to make the outcome obvious is simply false to me. Both bring valuable aspects to the table and it's completely logical to see either taking it. While Batman has the edge in skill, it by no means renders him untouchable to Cap, and one clean connect from his enhanced level strength or shield (be it a strike or ricochet) holds the potential to turn the tide. Meanwhile, Batman's stealth abilities and massive array of equipment that Cap has no immediate counter for are equally big wild cards to me. I legitimately believe it's entirely conceivable for either to be the victor in this case.

G-Man's thoughts

"I would say, even though Batman is supposed to win, you could expect Cap to win. ESPECIALLY because of The New 52. It just seems Cap has way more experience taking on a large variety of threats with many on a galactic level.

Batman, we have to assume, hasn't dealt with too many foes outside of his rogues gallery. Yes he fought Darkseid in JUSTICE LEAGUE 1-6 but what other huge threats did he face? Has he lead the JL on many missions or other teams? Cap has more experience and is prepared to go up against foes like Ultron, Kang the Conqueror and even Galactus. There's always the infamous "prep" time but unless Batman defeats him quickly, Cap would have the skills to keep dodging his attacks and the stamina to outlast Batman."

Who do you think would win and why? Sound off!

Gregg Katzman is a freelance writer for Comic Vine and IGN Entertainment. If this feature does well, expect another one next month! Be sure to follow him on Twitter for early spoilers every week about Rants & Raves and Best Battles!

605 Comments
Posted by Bezza

@jayc1324 said:

@bezza: batman bent steel in the comics and has done similar stuff. I do admit cap is stronger though. Why should batmans feats be called PIS but not caps? Batman benched over 1000 pounds as part of his daily routine, it had nothing to do with plot. Cap is stronger but still, I don't think it's much of a factor

I think its PIS because Batman has never taken a super soldier serum, his USP amongst the division one superheroes, is being the "superhero without super powers". Therefore in my humble opinion his physical limits should be defined by what is humanly possible. No human being alive can bench press 1,000 lbs, even the strongest powerlifters and frankly its unlikely any human ever will without the aid of bionic arms or some super steroid. Hence, why these sorts of feats are in my view wrong. Perhaps PIS is the wrong phrase, but its the one generally used to describe comic book feats that don't follow any sort of logic for a character. As for Cap American, his aren't PIS, because he took a special serum to become stronger.

None of this should distract from the fact that Batman would give Cap a good fight, due to his other qualities and skills.

Edited by MuyJingo

So, after re reading this article, it seems that Captain Americans feats, even when only occurring once or twice are considered to be held true for the character, while any similar feats Batman has are implicitly dismissed as PIS.

That's a hardly a fair and balanced article, when you don't consider feats from both characters equally.

That aside, Captain America has no physical edge over Batman, not in a context that would make a difference for this fight.

I would like people to note this blog where after some research, I explain why Captain America is only peak human when it comes to strength, exactly the same as Batman.

In short:

  • He isn't stronger than Batman, there is no feat showing him being anything more than peak
  • He can run faster than Batman, about 30/mph, but this doesn't give him an edge in the setting described for the fight. It takes time to build up to that speed, so he wouldn't be running anywhere near that speed. If he was running at all.
  • His reflexes being better than Batman's seems to be based on a single quote in a single issue in all the characters history, where he claims to be able to " see faster". In actual feats, he has the same level of reflexes as Batman as shown by feats with Batman doing things like catching arrows, dodging bullets, etc.
  • Both characters are considered peak human when it comes to stamina, and both characters have similar feats when it comes to stamina.
  • He has a healing advantage that Batman does not, but it is much slower acting, enough for him to survive in a block of ice, but not to heal from fatal wounds quickly.

So, the actually physical advantages he has over Batman, speed and healing, are essentially irrelevant to the fight.

Captain America has no physical advantage over Batman that is relevant to the fight. It's an important point, because if the physical edge was not given to Cap, then Batman clearly takes the fight instead of it being a draw.

Given the extent to which Captain Americas abilities are overstated and exaggerated, it just means the article isn't fair or balanced, and so it's not much use as a reference, it's just an entertaining if misinformed opinion.

@bezza: No he isn't. See blog linked above.

@jayc1324 said:

@bezza: batman bent steel in the comics and has done similar stuff. I do admit cap is stronger though. Why should batmans feats be called PIS but not caps? Batman benched over 1000 pounds as part of his daily routine, it had nothing to do with plot. Cap is stronger but still, I don't think it's much of a factor

That's the thing that has bugged me since I started reading this thread. Cap does something once, clearly outside of his abilities and then the character is held up to that standard from them on. Batman does something similar and it's PIS. Double standards aren't anything new I guess, just surprised to see it to this extent.

Posted by Bezza

Well fair enough, I must admit I was only basing my opinions on the movies, where I think you will agree Cap was portrayed as being stronger than Batman who in the Dark Knight trilogy is not as strong. I also did some research on Cap and this is what his wiki page says..

"..Captain America has no superhuman powers, but through the Super-Soldier Serum and "Vita-Ray" treatment, he is transformed and his strength, endurance, agility, speed, reflexes, durability, and healing are at the zenith of natural human potential. Rogers' body regularly replenishes the super-soldier serum; it does not wear off.[106]

The formula enhances all of his metabolic functions and prevents the build-up of fatigue poisons in his muscles, giving him endurance far in excess of an ordinary human being. This accounts for many of his extraordinary feats, including bench pressing 1200 pounds (545 kg) and running a mile (1.6 km) in 73 seconds (49 mph/78 kph).["

....So I'd say Cap is clearly stronger than current peak human level and faster than Batman, who as far as I know CANNOT run at 49 MPH! If Batman is benching 1000 Lbs then yes, he is at a similar strength level to Cap. and stronger than current peak levels.

I never said Batman would lose to Captain America, just that I think any battle would be close. That shield counts for a lot and Batman would be hard pressed to win a chance encounter. Just like batman can mix it with the JLA, Cap mixes it well with super-powered Marvel rivals. Batman is one of my favourite characters so I'm not having a go at him, honest!!

Edited by daredevil21134

Batman

Posted by GeoKnowsBest

Yes, Batman always wins.

Edited by kasino

thought SS serum just made you to be at peak human conditioning

Posted by k4tzm4n

@kasino said:

thought SS serum just made you to be at peak human conditioning

It's a subject that's always up for debate, but I and many others believe Captain America has more than enough feats to justify him being slighty above peak human (which would fall into "enhanced human") when it comes to physicals.

Staff Online
Posted by Doomnaut

Posted by k4tzm4n
Staff Online
Posted by Arkhamc1tizen

To close to call.

Edited by MuyJingo

@kasino said:

thought SS serum just made you to be at peak human conditioning

It does.

Captain America is a weird character in that his fans hold what would be PIS feats for any other character as true for him.

However as far as the fight is concerned, he doesn't have a single feat showing him to be stronger than Batman, and his running speed is irrelevant. Both have equivalent feats when it comes to reflexes.

Both Batman and Cap are Peak Human for areas that matter in the fight, yet for some reason an edge was given to Cap.

@bezza

OK, gotcha. The movie versions are pretty different from the comic versions....movie Captain America did seem to be somewhat superhuman, while movie Batman was below peak human.

And yeah, Batman has benched 1200lbs as well. They are exactly matched when it comes to strength..., if anything, Batman has more feats showing him as stronger, such as pushing a train carriage.

Captain America is enhanced only when it comes to healing, but his healing factor isn't fast enough to give him an advantage. His running speed is irrelevant and he doesn't seem to have an edge in reflexes.

To say that Cap has a physical edge over Batman in the fight just shows bias.

Posted by Saren

@muyjingo said:

And yeah, Batman has benched 1200lbs as well. They are exactly matched when it comes to strength..., if anything, Batman has more feats showing him as stronger, such as pushing a train carriage.

Odyssey isn't even canon. I can't even count the number of times people have posted scans from that series because they saw it on that Batman Feats blog.

Moderator
Posted by MuyJingo

@muyjingo said:

And yeah, Batman has benched 1200lbs as well. They are exactly matched when it comes to strength..., if anything, Batman has more feats showing him as stronger, such as pushing a train carriage.

Odyssey isn't even canon. I can't even count the number of times people have posted scans from that series because they saw it on that Batman Feats blog.

Why do you say it isn't canon?

I thought it was because it used the same logo as the canon books in the New 52, while non canon books had a different logo....

It doesn't really matter to me if it isn't though. My point still stands, and the Batman Feats blog has more than enough examples to show it. Many of them are even pretty much identical to the Cap feats...benching a certain amount, supporting a collapsing ceiling etc.

Posted by k4tzm4n

To say that Cap has a physical edge over Batman in the fight just shows bias.

Yes, I'm biased towards Cap even though I like Batman more.

I was going to post a lengthy response, but honestly, it's not worth it. You've been shown (be it listed or a scan) a wealthy amount of Captain America's feats in plenty of other threads yet you seem to have an objective to dismiss quite literally all of them. Why? I don't know and frankly, I don't care. I can live with someone out there not believing the common fact that Captain America does indeed have a slight physical edge over Bruce.

Staff Online
Edited by Saren

@muyjingo said:

@citizenbane said:

@muyjingo said:

And yeah, Batman has benched 1200lbs as well. They are exactly matched when it comes to strength..., if anything, Batman has more feats showing him as stronger, such as pushing a train carriage.

Odyssey isn't even canon. I can't even count the number of times people have posted scans from that series because they saw it on that Batman Feats blog.

Why do you say it isn't canon?

I thought it was because it used the same logo as the canon books in the New 52, while non canon books had a different logo....

It doesn't really matter to me if it isn't though. My point still stands, and the Batman Feats blog has more than enough examples to show it. Many of them are even pretty much identical to the Cap feats...benching a certain amount, supporting a collapsing ceiling etc.

Because it's not? DC gave all their books the new logo, not just the canon ones. Odyssey even started its run with DC's old logo before changing halfway through. Elseworlds titles like The Whistling Skull had DC's regular logo as well. Odyssey had a bunch of character changes to establish it as non-canon (Sensei was Ra's al Ghul's son, for instance).

Moderator
Posted by MuyJingo

Because it's not? DC gave all their books the new logo, not just the canon ones. Odyssey even started its run with DC's old logo before changing halfway through. Elseworlds titles like The Whistling Skull had DC's regular logo as well. Odyssey had a bunch of character changes to establish it as non-canon (Sensei was Ra's al Ghul's son, for instance).

Books that were not canon, like Batman:Noel had a different black and white logo. Books that were canon had the same logos as the mainstream canon titles, or so I thought.

Odyssey is a trippy book and not a lot of it makes sense, and a lot of it could be explained as though it were a dream state or something.

If it's not canon, that's fine.

Posted by Saren

@muyjingo said:
@citizenbane said:

Because it's not? DC gave all their books the new logo, not just the canon ones. Odyssey even started its run with DC's old logo before changing halfway through. Elseworlds titles like The Whistling Skull had DC's regular logo as well. Odyssey had a bunch of character changes to establish it as non-canon (Sensei was Ra's al Ghul's son, for instance).

Books that were not canon, like Batman:Noel had a different black and white logo. Books that were canon had the same logos as the mainstream canon titles, or so I thought.

Odyssey is a trippy book and not a lot of it makes sense, and a lot of it could be explained as though it were a dream state or something.

If it's not canon, that's fine.

The Black and White logo wasn't for non-canon books, it was for Batman-related books. Scott Snyder's run on Detective Comics had the B/W logo, for instance. Books that were obviously non-canon like The Whistling Skull had the regular blue/white logo. They were still non-canon.

Moderator
Posted by MuyJingo

The Black and White logo wasn't for non-canon books, it was for Batman-related books. Scott Snyder's run on Detective Comics had the B/W logo, for instance. Books that were obviously non-canon like The Whistling Skull had the regular blue/white logo. They were still non-canon.

I thought it changed after New 52. Canon books had the blue and white logo, books that were not had the black and white logo.

I guess the Whistling Skull shows that pretty clearly isn't the case though.

Fair enough.

Posted by DEGRAAF

I honestly dont know who i would give this too. I want to say Batman but i keep going back to the advantages for Cap in the original post. I would think Batman's gadgets can withstand Captain America's strength so while he might not be able to hit Cap to begin with he should be able to trap him unless of course Cap see what Bats is trying to do then Cap will win after letting Batman waste all his gadgets, unless Bats notices what Cap is trying to do lol

Posted by Saren

@muyjingo said:

@citizenbane said:

The Black and White logo wasn't for non-canon books, it was for Batman-related books. Scott Snyder's run on Detective Comics had the B/W logo, for instance. Books that were obviously non-canon like The Whistling Skull had the regular blue/white logo. They were still non-canon.

I thought it changed after New 52. Canon books had the blue and white logo, books that were not had the black and white logo.

I guess the Whistling Skull shows that pretty clearly isn't the case though.

Fair enough.

It didn't. Ame-Comi Girls, Injustice: Gods Among Us and Adventures of Superman all have the blue-white logo.

Moderator
Edited by MuyJingo

@citizenbane said:

It didn't. Ame-Comi Girls, Injustice: Gods Among Us and Adventures of Superman all have the blue-white logo.

Right. I agreed with you.

@degraaf said:

I honestly dont know who i would give this too. I want to say Batman but i keep going back to the advantages for Cap in the original post. I would think Batman's gadgets can withstand Captain America's strength so while he might not be able to hit Cap to begin with he should be able to trap him unless of course Cap see what Bats is trying to do then Cap will win after letting Batman waste all his gadgets, unless Bats notices what Cap is trying to do lol

You realize the advantages listed in the original post are based on a misunderstanding? Cap has no physical edge over Batman that would make a difference in the fight. Healing and Running speed aren't going to help here, and he isn't stronger.

Posted by Dayvid3

Cap hands down

Posted by DEGRAAF

@muyjingo: Even if i remove the OP from my judgement i have read enough comics of Cap to know (IMO) he is superior to Batman in speed and Strength even if only by a little bit. I actually see them as evenly matched for the overall (without gadgets) but that doesnt mean one isnt slightly better in some aspect or another. If one guy can bench press 1100 lbs and another guy can bench press 1000 lbs i dont think it make enough of a difference and would call it a wash. A punch has to do with muscles all the way down to your toes so Batman could have stronger muscles somewhere else in his body to make up for the small difference in his arms.

I think it would ultimately come down to hand to hand combat and that is where Batman would win bc of his knowledge in fighting and pressure points

Posted by MuyJingo

@degraaf said:

@muyjingo: Even if i remove the OP from my judgement i have read enough comics of Cap to know (IMO) he is superior to Batman in speed and Strength even if only by a little bit. I actually see them as evenly matched for the overall (without gadgets) but that doesnt mean one isnt slightly better in some aspect or another. If one guy can bench press 1100 lbs and another guy can bench press 1000 lbs i dont think it make enough of a difference and would call it a wash. A punch has to do with muscles all the way down to your toes so Batman could have stronger muscles somewhere else in his body to make up for the small difference in his arms.

I think it would ultimately come down to hand to hand combat and that is where Batman would win bc of his knowledge in fighting and pressure points

I mean, I agree with you on your last paragraph.

I'm just interested to see why you think Cap has a strength advantage to Batman.

They are both classed in the same category, and both have similar feats.

Batman has been shown bending guns, ripping open a locked trunk of a car, pulling the bars out of a jail cell to break out, holding up a collapsing ceiling, carrying beams that weighed about 1000lbs...

About exactly equal to the strength feats Cap has done, IMO.

Posted by DEGRAAF

@muyjingo: I agree with you. The link you posted talking about how Cap is just peak human and not beyond peak while makes sense still I go by the comics i have read and the wiki pages the characters have on this site. I know the character pages are fan made so they can be wrong but i can assume both are equally wrong thanks to their fan boys. There i no way to accurately judge this unless you remove all fan made wikis, go straight from what Marvel and DC say about the characters and solely focus one whats happened in the comics. I dont have the time to read every comic so i trust the monitored pages of Comicvine. From the link you posted about Cap mentions he can military press 800 lbs which should equal to 1200 lbs in bench. Batman's page clearly states he benches 1000 lbs.

I am fine with calling Steve Rogers peak human only but you are unwilling to give any wiggle room as to Steve being better than Batman in anything. Simply put until Batman takes a "SUPER SOLDIER SERUM" I will always think Cap has an advantage in any physical attribute even if its the slightest possible advantage that doesnt make a difference. As a Super soldier serum should do, it SHOULD put Steve Rogers beyond reach of simply non-stop training

Edited by Endanger

I thought the fan-made wikis all write down facts from the comics

You're telling me that make up nonsense??

Edited by nickzambuto

@muyjingo: Most people agree that Batman does have similar strength feats to Cap. I feel the super soldier's advantages actually lie in his reaction time and endurance over Bruce.

Posted by MuyJingo

@degraaf said:

@muyjingo: I agree with you. The link you posted talking about how Cap is just peak human and not beyond peak while makes sense still I go by the comics i have read and the wiki pages the characters have on this site. I know the character pages are fan made so they can be wrong but i can assume both are equally wrong thanks to their fan boys. There i no way to accurately judge this unless you remove all fan made wikis, go straight from what Marvel and DC say about the characters and solely focus one whats happened in the comics. I dont have the time to read every comic so i trust the monitored pages of Comicvine. From the link you posted about Cap mentions he can military press 800 lbs which should equal to 1200 lbs in bench. Batman's page clearly states he benches 1000 lbs.

Well, I don't think your opinion is based in fact in that case.

Steve has only been showing benching 1100lbs, not 1200. Besides, benching doesn't mean much by itself, and as I said Batman has more than enough strength feats to put him on par or ahead of cap.

To make it clearer: There is absolutely no evidence that Cap is stronger than Batman. None at all.

I am fine with calling Steve Rogers peak human only but you are unwilling to give any wiggle room as to Steve being better than Batman in anything. Simply put until Batman takes a "SUPER SOLDIER SERUM" I will always think Cap has an advantage in any physical attribute even if its the slightest possible advantage that doesnt make a difference. As a Super soldier serum should do, it SHOULD put Steve Rogers beyond reach of simply non-stop training

The super soldier serum made Steve peak. Not enhanced, not super. Peak. Enhanced when it comes to healing only, and it could be argued reflexes and running speed. Nothing else.

@muyjingo: Most people agree that Batman does have similar strength feats to Cap. I feel the super soldier's advantages actually lie in his reaction time and endurance over Bruce.

I think their reaction time is on par....both have caught arrows, dodged bullets etc. Featwise, they seem exactly on par.

Endurance wise, I see no difference either. Batman has been stabbed in the chest with a shovel and come back up to fight....been dosed with joer venom, deprived of sleep for days, drugged, burried alive and broken out of his own grave....etc.

If anything, Batman has more endurance feats than Cap, I would think.

Edited by DEGRAAF

@muyjingo: you are quickly sounding like a bat fanboy tat believes Batman can beat anyone

Posted by MuyJingo

@degraaf: Then you haven't been reading what I've been saying. I certainly don't think Batman can beat anyone, especially not in a match in a city street where he is completely unprepared.

I do think Batman, being a peak human, should be able to beat another peak human who isn't as capable a fighter, not as adept at operating in a city and doesn't have a tech/gadgets advantage.

Crazy, huh?

Posted by cameron83

Realistically, Cap wins. A trained soldier, who has fought in actual wars, with physical enhancements that make him much stronger, faster and tougher than any normal human. Batman is a normal human with combat training and gadgets. I don't see how this is a fight. Cap has fought guys with more gadgets and weapons that what Batman has and won. Cap wins, to say otherwise is silly.

@shazam78 said:

I say Cap but not easily. Now before I get into this let me say I love and respect both characters. They both are well trained physically, although Cap doesn't have Bats brain he's far from stupid. Cap's no stranger to taken on stealthy, skilled,gadget users. Batman is considered Olympian athlete, but Cap super soldier is beyond that. Having stamina where you can run a mile without getting winded that would carry over into fight like this. Not that it's impossible to beat either character but it seems like I read more about Batman's defeats than Cap's. The S.S. serum also heals injuries faster than a normal human, so he no Wolverine in healing factor but Batman is still human. It's just Cap's strength,training, experience,super soldier bonuses, or his mind it's combining them all that beats Bats.

I say these. And with his superb shield fighting skills,I say he is more skilled. Just me though....

Edited by MaccyD

Cap definitely.

  1. His fast metabolism should overcome most of Bats gadgets, if the reflexes dont kick in.
  2. His brain is above Bats, capable of setting out tactics for dozens of heroes on the fly while Bats can barely manage 7.
  3. He is more experienced than Batman and fights mainly global threats not just local criminals.
  4. He regularly fights superhumans.
  5. He is trained for battle, usually fighting against elite soldiers not just criminals.
  6. He is a master strategist and regularly overcomes superhuman beings using tactics and strategies.

If all else fails he uses his greatest weapon of all: Avengers Assemble!!!

Posted by DEGRAAF
Posted by MuyJingo

@degraaf: No, I don't. I'm all read up. Marvel considers the character peak, his feats show him as peak. It's pretty simple.

The exceptions are his running speed and healing, neither of which are relevant to a fight like this.

Edited by Alexander505

Too many misinformed guys here...You are sure to read the comics? You talk about the Cap's strategic skills...but Batman is better than him in this specialties. You talk about the Cap's strenght, but Steve, never showed a strenght superior than Bats, and don't count the PIS. You talk about fights, training, but Bats is absolutely a martial artist better than Cap. You talk about the shield, what about a better body armor and many many gadget? You talk about physical abilities, but both are considered peak human.

Your logic doesn't makes any sense.

Posted by DEGRAAF

@muyjingo: Healing speed is considered irrelevant in a fight like this? really?

Edited by MuyJingo

@degraaf: Absolutely. Reason being, Cap's healing factor isn't anywhere near advanced or fast enough to give him an advantage. It certainly wouldn't protect him from Batman's attacks.

Posted by DEGRAAF

@muyjingo: even from his pressure point attacks? It wouldnt help feeling come back quicker?

Posted by MuyJingo

@degraaf: Why would that matter? If Batman get's a KO, then he wins the fight. It doesn't matter if Steve can recover faster than a normal human could....

Posted by DEGRAAF

pressure points dont necessarily mean knock out, he could try to hit a pressure poin in the arm to make his arm go dead but if Cap heals from that quickly then its not very effective is it

Edited by MuyJingo

@degraaf: He doesn't heal fast enough to recover from stuff like that. What makes you think he does? He will heal in a week what might take most humans several weeks or a month. He doesn't heal during the actual fight....

Posted by DEGRAAF

ok so when Batman hits him in a pressure point that would normally take 30-60 min to come back from wouldnt heal in like 5 minutes or less?

Posted by MuyJingo

@degraaf: I don't believe so, but let's say it does. How does that help him? During those 5 minutes, Batman can only dish out more damage and Cap is at a disadvantage...

Posted by spider11211

Cap wins...but the match is close.

Edited by matchesmalone21

@k4tzm4n: When you going to do Does Captain America always win? I a matter of being a street leveler god,Steve is expert especially in Marvel Now.

Posted by DEGRAAF

@muyjingo: I give up. We are never going to agree.

Posted by MuyJingo

@degraaf: We can agree to disagree, that's fine. I just wish I understood where you were coming from. If Cap has an arm disabled for 5 minutes, don't you think that is a huge disadvantage?

Edited by DEGRAAF

@muyjingo said:

@degraaf: We can agree to disagree, that's fine. I just wish I understood where you were coming from. If Cap has an arm disabled for 5 minutes, don't you think that is a huge disadvantage?

I would agree it is a disadvantage but you dont think Captain America knows defense and evasion techniques?

Edited by MuyJingo

@degraaf: Well yes, I don't doubt that. But we were discussing his healing factor, and whether it was relevant to the fight or not.

I was saying I don't think it's relevant, because it isn't nearly fast enough to be so. I mean, has he even healed an injury while a fight is still going on?

You said what if he healed from a nerve strike in 5 minutes, I said that's 5 minutes where he has a significant disadvantage...

Regardless of who you believe would win the fight, my point was only that his healing factor isn't an advantage.

Posted by spider11211

I do not think you are giving Cap enough credit for his fighting skill, he is also very highly trained in many forms of combat.