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Does Batman Always Win? Batman vs. Black Panther

Will The Dark Knight defeat Black Panther? Come find out what we think!

We've all seen the memes or heard the jokes before... Batman always wins. Why? Because he's Batman! As funny as this tends to be, I thought I'd turn it into a monthly segment to test that statement out. Batman obviously doesn't always win, but I thought it would be fun to see who he could defeat in fair, one on one battles with fellow street level characters that aren't from his universe.

To make sure the segment is always neutral, the match will always be a random encounter (this means neither has knowledge on the other or prep time) and in a generic, unpopulated city setting (at night but city lights are on). They'll start roughly 50 feet apart, have their standard gear and they will be in character. Naturally, they have the objective to defeat the other character. Just like over in the Battles Forums, the winner will be declared based on who I think will take the most victories in this scenario if it played out 10 times. Additionally, it's worth noting that this segment is treating all Pre-New 52 Batman feats as canon (New Earth, of course).

So far, I've placed The Dark Knight against Captain America (stalemate) and Wolverine (The X-Man wins). Now he's going face-to-face with a character drastically similar to him in a lot of regards -- Black Panther!

Credit: Rafael Neko Tumblr

This is usually where I break the segment up into three parts. I'd have one for Batman's advantages, one for Black Panther's advantages and then the verdict. However, in this case they are shockingly similar in so many elements and I feel it would be easiest to discuss these matters together. I'll bold and underline key points, too.

Hand-to-hand Skill

Both of these characters deserve praise for their technique and knowledge of martial arts and shouldn't be taken lightly.

Batman is a confirmed master of 127 different styles and has held his own or flat-out defeated some of the best street levelers in his universe. He's also embarrassed Nightwing and has overcome ridiculous amounts of enemies (BATMAN #16, for a recent example). He's no stranger to using nerve strikes (Solomon Grundy) and his peak human condition in combination with his skill allows him to give characters physically superior to him a tough time (Deathstroke, for example).

Meanwhile, T'Challa is often underrated when it comes to his effectiveness in this regard. AVX: VS #5 confirmed he's studied every fighting style in the world and, just like his opponent, knows how to use precision against physically superior characters. He's dropped Luke Cage, taken down Karnak, fought evenly and defeated Steve Rogers, and has brutally defeated a Super Skrull which had a wide variety of effective talents (Bullseye, Captain America, Elektra, Shang-Chi, and even T'Challa's).

These two are very close in this regard and I'd warrant a slight edge to Batman due to a more impressive selection of feats throughout his extensive history.

Equipment

I'll just come out and say it: I'm giving this edge to Black Panther. Batman has a huge assortment of of offensive and defensive gear at his disposal. Electric, gas, explosive, incendiary and cryo is barely scratching the surface of what Wayne can throw T'Challa's way, but ultimately, I don't believe they'll overcome the advantages Black Panther's vibranium armor provides. It grants a huge amount of protection against blunt trauma, stabbing damage (though cuts can penetrate if they go along the seams), and defend against the other attacks Batman has in his belt. As you can see in the image provided, Black Panther easily withstood a lightning strike from Storm, has endured hits from powerhouses including Hulk and Iron Man, taken volley of Iron Fist's chi-backed punches, and was perfectly fine after being shot by numerous assault rifles at point blank range. It goes without saying that his armor is quite protective.

Keep in mind, this is only addressing his durability against Wayne's attacks so far. When it comes to his offensive capabilities, T'Challa has deadly energy daggers and anti-metal claws which would absolutely tear through the Dark Knight's kevlar if it connects. The Marvel hero's boots allow him to withstand falls from greater heights and in a city setting that's definitely going to come in hand if a fight reaches a rooftop. Furtheremore, in NEW AVENGERS #1 we saw T'Challa has cloaking, teleporation and an energy shield. Wayne certainly brings a lot to the table, but in my opinion, T'Challa's goodies are simply more effective and provide just as much offensive and defensive variety in this case.

Mentality

Both are considered to be among the top human minds on their planet. The Caped Crusader is dubbed the greatest detective and T'Challa has a spot on the Iluminati for a reason (or at least was offered it). Both are masters of prep time, but since this is a random encounter, their absurdly good feats in this factor are really just moot points here.

What this comes down to is how both will act in this specific scenario and if either has the advantage when it comes to a tactical mindset. In that regard, I'd say both are roughly even. Both have the skill and intellect required to see subtle openings in their styles and are more than observant enough to not fall for obvious traps or tricks. However, when it comes to how far they'll go, I'd say T'Challa is the more brutal one. Wayne shocked me when he recently put a grappling line through Scarecrow's jaw, but T'Challa is a man that has no gripe ripping out eyes (Super Skrull) and, in NEW AVENGERS #1 (pictured above), he "basically ripped a dude in half" according to writer Jonathan Hickman.

Physicals

If this was made several months ago then they would be even in this regard. T'Challa was peak human while leaping around Matt Murdock's turf... but unfortunately for Batman, I'm making this feature now and Black Panther has once again been upgraded to above peak human (King of the Dead). T'Challa is now at least enhanced when it comes to his physicals, therefore he he takes this advantage. This isn't a huge advantage, though, since Batman has trained thoroughly enough to reach peak human condition.

The Verdict

So does Batman always win against Black Panther? In a random one on one fight, I think Black Panther would take the edge. Out of 10 fights, I'd probably grant him 6-7 hard fought victories over DC's Caped Crusader. Batman has the skill to eventually defeat him in unarmed combat, but sadly for him, this isn't unarmed combat. And while Bruce does have plenty of gear on his side, it'll take a lot to keep the Avenger down. It'll be a lengthy and brutal battle, but I see T'Challa's durability being the game changer.

There's now an official discussion thread for this monthly segment! Go there to make suggestions for future combatants (they need to be non-DC and street level!) and provide feedback!

Gregg Katzman is a freelance writer for Comic Vine and IGN Entertainment. When he's not lurking around Comic Vine (which is rare), you can find him on Twitter.

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Posted by Omega-Man

@BatWatch said:

@Omega-Man said:

@BatWatch:

The new 52 Slade Wilson aka Deathstroke's armour was upgraded to nth metal, nth metal is mainly used by Hawkman it comes from the planet Thanagar it's shown to be both really strong and durable hell his nth metal sword cut clean through one of Batman's planes in The Dark Knight series of comics, and another quality about nth metal nothing magical can affect it so Zatanna can't do anything to it

Pronuced 'Enth' Metal

It's mainly the DCU's answer to Marvel's Vibrainium and Adamantium. Though I do like that is does a one up on magical attacks and beings of magical nature can't affect it either.

Though I am unsure of how Slade got his hands on enough nth metal to make a suit and a sword.

Interesting. I was passingly familiar with Nth metal because of Hawkman, but I did not know Slade was wearing it these days. Isn't that kind of redundant for him? He already has pretty good healing factor, right? I guess every bit helps.

I do remember Slade slicing through Bruce's plane, but I figured that was just bad writing. Sort of cool to know there was a reason for it.

Yeah pretty much the reason on how he cut through the Batplane. You can say that it makes him redundant to have an Nth metal suit and sword but I have to admit it does make him that much more deadly to the point even high level magic users don't pose a threat to him. And it makes him that much more harder to defeat than before. But considering the inclusion of Wildstorm characters it's kinda needed Slade wouldn't hope to beat Midnighter the armour gives him an edge if he ever faces him. But it makes Bruce a little under powered in the new 52 also in the terms of protection if you think about it.

Posted by Vaeternus

@Dark Chord said:

I very much like this column and am very much interested in his chances against other street-level heroes and villains. If you look at my list that I posted called out in the streets, that covers a large majority of people I would like to see him matched against. For non-Marvel matches, I would be interested in Witchblade or Cyblade from the Top Cow camp. My only problem is that I would like to see a matching column for Captain America. He is Marvel's guy who always seems to find a way to win. Even in the much-maligned Onslaught crossover, he is stated as the guy who always sees the way to victory. I would be interested in how he would handle characters like Cassie Cain, Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, or the Bronze Tiger. What say you?

Good point. Personally, I don't see that fairing well for BP if he took on not just Batman but Cassie, Bronze Tiger or KK would be too much I think for BP. Considering their feats and gave Batman trouble.

Posted by xlab3000

Batman should win

Posted by sinestro_GL

Boooo

Batman wins! Fatality!

:P

Posted by batmanary

@PowerPuck said:

@batmanary said:

By your logic, King Abdullah of Jordan could beat Batman. Their training is not that extensive, buddy. Though I will concede that I do not follow BP. And my post does state IMO.

wakanda is primarily a warrior nation above everything else. they to learn to fight before becoming the most technologically advanced. their training is extensive. t'challa was trained from early childhood, and to become king, he had to defeat wakanda's best warriors and the current black panther at the time of the rite of ascension. one cannot be considered to rule as black panther if he's not well-trained warrior.

you've admitted that you don't follow black panther, so how would you know if his training is extensive or not, on top of comparing him to a realistic king that's not even as skilled as he is? if t'challa's training isn't that extensive, how is he able to fight people like captain america, iron fist, a skrull with the fighting skills of marvel's best fighters, one shot karnak twice, and study every fighting style there is?

I was more or less pointing out the issue with him bringing up the fact that he was a king and that it was pretty irrelevant to the conversation. Now, my point being, you can be the greatest warrior in Wakanda, but where exactly did he learn every fighting style there is? I already put my opinion on that subject earlier on.

Posted by TrueMarvel

You guys are confusing this. Wakanda is a nation with Warriors. It is not PRIMARILY a warrior nation. That imples that wakanda's chief concern is being fighters and warriors. That is not the most important priority of wakanda. Technology is there chief concern. They are a nation with warriors. But they are primarily a nation of knowledge and technology.

Wakanda is the worlds leading nation in technology.

Posted by TrueMarvel

@batmanary said:

@PowerPuck said:

@batmanary said:

By your logic, King Abdullah of Jordan could beat Batman. Their training is not that extensive, buddy. Though I will concede that I do not follow BP. And my post does state IMO.

wakanda is primarily a warrior nation above everything else. they to learn to fight before becoming the most technologically advanced. their training is extensive. t'challa was trained from early childhood, and to become king, he had to defeat wakanda's best warriors and the current black panther at the time of the rite of ascension. one cannot be considered to rule as black panther if he's not well-trained warrior.

you've admitted that you don't follow black panther, so how would you know if his training is extensive or not, on top of comparing him to a realistic king that's not even as skilled as he is? if t'challa's training isn't that extensive, how is he able to fight people like captain america, iron fist, a skrull with the fighting skills of marvel's best fighters, one shot karnak twice, and study every fighting style there is?

I was more or less pointing out the issue with him bringing up the fact that he was a king and that it was pretty irrelevant to the conversation. Now, my point being, you can be the greatest warrior in Wakanda, but where exactly did he learn every fighting style there is? I already put my opinion on that subject earlier on.

So... you are spectical of how BP learned every MA style... but you accept the fact that Batman mastered every style in the world in 5 years? while getting a multitude of PHDs in the same span? Double standards.

Posted by PowerPuck

@batmanary said:

I was more or less pointing out the issue with him bringing up the fact that he was a king and that it was pretty irrelevant to the conversation. Now, my point being, you can be the greatest warrior in Wakanda, but where exactly did he learn every fighting style there is? I already put my opinion on that subject earlier on.

t'challa traveled the world to hone his intelligence and his fighting skills many years before he returned to wakanda to take the throne. there's that large gap in his history where one could draw many possibilities. but, ultimately, there's no indication of where he learned these fighting styles, but only that he simply learned them. there are also instances of him training in his palace in a number of his books. other than that, his extent of his training isn't as fleshed out at batman's is (and if I recall correctly, character that aren't as popular but are considered good fighters suffer from the same thing t'challa does). it doesn't mean that we should write of t'challa because of how vague the extent of his training may be, because in spite of that, he shown many times that he's one of marvel's best fighters.

your opinion is respected, though.

Posted by entropy_aegis

@Vaeternus: What are you on about? that Darkseid/Batman BS was written by Loeb and Batman needed a mother box,heck even a mother box is a flimsy excuse.

Batman cannot harm the Spectre plain and simple go ahead and use that Batkick but that's just crap.Likewise I dont think T'Challa has shot against Galactus either.But overall between Batman and Panther T'Challa has vibranium and magic that gives him the advantage in a prep fight.

Edited by Vaeternus

@entropy aegis oh please, aside from you being pages late to something i've already addressed a few times now...just because you dislike loeb is irrelevant, and again who cares how he did, batman still did it, nobody else did who knew of motherbox technology...so keep hiding behind that excuse of "that was pis" no it wasn't...because marvel never wrote a pis arch? haaa humor me..because they've written far more then dc has historically. You want bs or pis? read preret beyonder then get back to me. A mortal with magic outsmarting and stealing powers from a supposed "omnipotent" being....right more like stupid being lol.

I also don't know what the hell you're reading because i never said batman can "harm" the spectre, i said he out thought him in an alternate universe story via the batman. I said, given spectre's power level bp merely outsmarted ss meant for galactus, spectre of which would murk either...and bruce has beaten far more powerful people then bp with his vibranium and he doesnt have powerful magic, wrong. Batman would own black panther in a prep battle, you obviously never read batman at his best....

Posted by entropy_aegis

@Vaeternus said:

@entropy aegis oh please, aside from you being pages late to something i've already addressed a few times now...just because you dislike loeb is irrelevant, and again who cares how he did, batman still did it, nobody else did who knew of motherbox technology...so keep hiding behind that excuse of "that was pis" no it wasn't...because marvel never wrote a pis arch? haaa humor me..because they've written far more then dc has historically. You want bs or pis? read preret beyonder then get back to me. A mortal with magic outsmarting and stealing powers from a supposed "omnipotent" being....right more like stupid being lol.

I also don't know what the hell you're reading because i never said batman can "harm" the spectre, i said he out thought him in an alternate universe story via the batman. I said, given spectre's power level bp merely outsmarted ss meant for galactus, spectre of which would murk either...and bruce has beaten far more powerful people then bp with his vibranium and he doesnt have powerful magic, wrong. Batman would own black panther in a prep battle, you obviously never read batman at his best....

The irony here just killed a part of me.

WTF are you talking about? Jeph Loeb writing is crap,that is universally accepted.Likewise mother boxes are fairly common in the Fourth World you'd think DS would leave his weapons under such flimsy security? Loeb also ignored the fact that DS could have read Batman's mind so that whole non sense would've been avoided in the first place.

He kicked Spectre and made him bleed...seriously you're defending that? you're free to believe whatever you want but dont use crap to support you case.

Edited by Vaeternus

What the hell are you talking about? lol Batman never made spectre bleed much less beat him, and if that ever did happen it would only be due to spectre allowing him i was referring to the show the batman, i dont know what you're reading. DS's powers have never been consistent, if you dont know this from his fights with the jl and superman then you really must not be familiar with the writers of ds over time...

And sorry but just because you and a few others dislike one writer is irrelevant, that was a good story that i didnt hear lots of batman and superman fans complain about so perhaps you're just hating, that's what im getting from your post...

I also don't see your irony point, people who know me on here actually know i prefer dc far more over marvel due to better writing historically as well as very big on gaming knowledge. If you really followed batman then youd know what he's capable of.

Edited by nick_hero22

I like how we have some users on here claiming that others don't read comics when in fact they don't read comics either and are quite ignorant about anything outside of their limited perspective. Any who, I will side with Black Panther in this fight because he has a comparable level of skill which complements his enhanced physical stats that would have a major influence on how a hand-to-hand bout would turn out which would be strongly in his favor; Black Panther's gear such as his vibranium suit would definitively create a much bigger gap that Batman would struggle to close due to insufficient gear and knowledge of the suit's capabilities and specifications.

Edited by Vaeternus

Hmm, first battle forums...then off topic now batman forums...i sense a pattern forming here from the same user. sad.

I love how certain users on here stalk other users every chance they get and try to pass it off as "casually posting" while posting lies about other users, and making false assumptions...and just sailing whever the wind blows in any discussion(this topic being no different), then again this coming from the same person who went from"defending a certain gaming series to hating it" over night in an attempt to fit in with the "elite comicbook" reader community on here. Especially when they take batman vs. any video game character but not against black panther,that's too funny...

Posted by nick_hero22

@Vaeternus said:

What the hell are you talking about? lol Batman never made spectre bleed much less beat him, and if that ever did happen it would only be due to spectre allowing him i was referring to the show the batman, i dont know what you're reading. DS's powers have never been consistent, if you dont know this from his fights with the jl and superman then you really must not be familiar with the writers of ds over time...

And sorry but just because you and a few others dislike one writer is irrelevant, that was a good story that i didnt hear lots of batman and superman fans complain about so perhaps you're just hating, that's what im getting from your post...

I also don't see your irony point, people who know me on here actually know i prefer dc far more over marvel due to better writing historically as well as very big on gaming knowledge. If you really followed batman then youd know what he's capable of.

Why are you insulting him when you don't even read comics to begin with; I love how you are portraying yourself as this avid comic book reader, yet, your entire post is filled with extremely vague information concerning "supposed" inconsistencies and plot elements. I'm no Darkseid expert and I'm not very well read about him as a character, so do you mine giving me some specifics about these inconsistencies for learning purposes. And could you also list some of the story arcs that have been considerably better than the numerous story arcs that Marvel has published over the decade?

Posted by nick_hero22

@Vaeternus said:

I love how certain users on here stalk other users every chance they get and try to pass it off as "casually posting" while posting lies about other users, and making false assumptions...and just sailing whever the wind blows in any discussion(this topic being no different), then again this coming from the same person who went from"defending a certain gaming series to hating it" over night in an attempt to fit in with the "elite comicbook" reader community on here.

Sorry, I can smell BS from a mile away. Blame my very acute senses.

Edited by Vaeternus

@nick_hero22 said:

@Vaeternus said:

What the hell are you talking about? lol Batman never made spectre bleed much less beat him, and if that ever did happen it would only be due to spectre allowing him i was referring to the show the batman, i dont know what you're reading. DS's powers have never been consistent, if you dont know this from his fights with the jl and superman then you really must not be familiar with the writers of ds over time...

And sorry but just because you and a few others dislike one writer is irrelevant, that was a good story that i didnt hear lots of batman and superman fans complain about so perhaps you're just hating, that's what im getting from your post...

I also don't see your irony point, people who know me on here actually know i prefer dc far more over marvel due to better writing historically as well as very big on gaming knowledge. If you really followed batman then youd know what he's capable of.

Why are you insulting him when you don't even read comics to begin with; I love how you are portraying yourself as this avid comic book reader, yet, your entire post is filled with extremely vague information concerning "supposed" inconsistencies and plot elements. I'm no Darkseid expert and I'm not very well read about him as a character, so do you mine giving me some specifics about these inconsistencies for learning purposes. And could you also list some of the story arcs that have been considerably better than the numerous story arcs that Marvel has published over the decade?

You must have difficulty reading? I never insulted him, why are you even posting here? oh yeah to start trouble? Are you asking to be flagged?Because let's se here, first it was battle forums, then it was off topic now batman...seriously? You're just giving me ammo at this point. i call you being your usual self and trying to start somethng with me yet again...

Well, you shouldn't be commenting then now should you if you're not familiar with darkseid to begin with which you just openly admitted. Newsflash, he's not consistent with his powers there are archs where he should by definition of his omegga beams destroy superman or wonder woman but doesn't...yet his beams will merely ko clark. Not to mention his telepathy isn't even used in every story...

oh and btw, you're wrong yet again I do read comics and most likely know more then you do concerning dc characters. Heck, i'll even wager i own more comics then you do yet i dont even buy every series...seriously, you're quite presumpturous and make loads of false accusations about me and other users ive noticed. Lets see your comics mr. i read more comics then everyone else?

Posted by nick_hero22

@Vaeternus said:

@nick_hero22 said:

@Vaeternus said:

What the hell are you talking about? lol Batman never made spectre bleed much less beat him, and if that ever did happen it would only be due to spectre allowing him i was referring to the show the batman, i dont know what you're reading. DS's powers have never been consistent, if you dont know this from his fights with the jl and superman then you really must not be familiar with the writers of ds over time...

And sorry but just because you and a few others dislike one writer is irrelevant, that was a good story that i didnt hear lots of batman and superman fans complain about so perhaps you're just hating, that's what im getting from your post...

I also don't see your irony point, people who know me on here actually know i prefer dc far more over marvel due to better writing historically as well as very big on gaming knowledge. If you really followed batman then youd know what he's capable of.

Why are you insulting him when you don't even read comics to begin with; I love how you are portraying yourself as this avid comic book reader, yet, your entire post is filled with extremely vague information concerning "supposed" inconsistencies and plot elements. I'm no Darkseid expert and I'm not very well read about him as a character, so do you mine giving me some specifics about these inconsistencies for learning purposes. And could you also list some of the story arcs that have been considerably better than the numerous story arcs that Marvel has published over the decade?

You must have difficulty reading? I never insulted him, why are you even posting here? oh yeah to start trouble? Are you asking to be flagged?Because let's se here, first it was battle forums, then it was off topic now batman...seriously? You're just giving me ammo at this point. i call you being your usual self and trying to start somethng with me yet again...

Well, you shouldn't be commenting then now should you if you're not familiar with darkseid to begin with which you just openly admitted. Newsflash, he's not consistent with his powers there are archs where he should by definition of his omegga beams destroy superman or wonder woman but doesn't...yet his beams will merely ko clark. Not to mention his telepathy isn't even used in every story...

1) You were being very condescending and rude when in fact your knowledge is severely limited about numerous comic books characters, you have absolutely no authority or credibility to call out someone else when you in aren't an expert on either one of this characters.

2) Flag Away! I haven't responded to you in over a week, so I don't know where this stalking crap is coming from. Your pretty much irrelevant in my opinion, but I'm definitely curious about some of the claims that you made in this thread in regards to calling others out when you in fact aren't an expert either.

3) I stated that I was quite ignorant about Darkseid which is why I asked you to enlighten me about his capabilities since you claimed that you are very knowledgeable about his character. Can you post scans and provide context of Darkseid using his Omega Beams and Superman not being ko'ed by his beams without inference from outside plot elements because I recall him having protection from the Source.

Posted by nick_hero22

@Vaeternus:

I'm a little behind on my comic book collection (I'm a college student), but here goes what I have available on my Comixology account. You care to substantiate your comic book collection?

Edited by Vaeternus

@nick_hero22 said:

@Vaeternus said:

@nick_hero22 said:

@Vaeternus said:

What the hell are you talking about? lol Batman never made spectre bleed much less beat him, and if that ever did happen it would only be due to spectre allowing him i was referring to the show the batman, i dont know what you're reading. DS's powers have never been consistent, if you dont know this from his fights with the jl and superman then you really must not be familiar with the writers of ds over time...

And sorry but just because you and a few others dislike one writer is irrelevant, that was a good story that i didnt hear lots of batman and superman fans complain about so perhaps you're just hating, that's what im getting from your post...

I also don't see your irony point, people who know me on here actually know i prefer dc far more over marvel due to better writing historically as well as very big on gaming knowledge. If you really followed batman then youd know what he's capable of.

Why are you insulting him when you don't even read comics to begin with; I love how you are portraying yourself as this avid comic book reader, yet, your entire post is filled with extremely vague information concerning "supposed" inconsistencies and plot elements. I'm no Darkseid expert and I'm not very well read about him as a character, so do you mine giving me some specifics about these inconsistencies for learning purposes. And could you also list some of the story arcs that have been considerably better than the numerous story arcs that Marvel has published over the decade?

You must have difficulty reading? I never insulted him, why are you even posting here? oh yeah to start trouble? Are you asking to be flagged?Because let's se here, first it was battle forums, then it was off topic now batman...seriously? You're just giving me ammo at this point. i call you being your usual self and trying to start somethng with me yet again...

Well, you shouldn't be commenting then now should you if you're not familiar with darkseid to begin with which you just openly admitted. Newsflash, he's not consistent with his powers there are archs where he should by definition of his omegga beams destroy superman or wonder woman but doesn't...yet his beams will merely ko clark. Not to mention his telepathy isn't even used in every story...

1) You were being very condescending and rude when in fact your knowledge is severely limited about numerous comic books characters, you have absolutely no authority or credibility to call out someone else when you in aren't an expert on either one of this characters.

2) Flag Away! I haven't responded to you in over a week, so I don't know where this stalking crap is coming from. Your pretty much irrelevant in my opinion, but I'm definitely curious about some of the claims that you made in this thread in regards to calling others out when you in fact aren't an expert either.

3) I stated that I was quite ignorant about Darkseid which is why I asked you to enlighten me about his capabilities since you claimed that you are very knowledgeable about his character. Can you post scans and provide context of Darkseid using his Omega Beams and Superman not being ko'ed by his beams without inference from outside plot elements because I recall him having protection from the Source.

No i wasn't, i was firm with my tone and opinion. plus even if i were, that's not your problem, you're not a moderator nor entropy's lawyer so stop pretending to be one, do i interfere or try to stir up your arguments or debates elsewhere? No because i don't care for one, and two it's not my place nor my job. I'm not blind, i can see right through your patterns...funny you say you're not "stalking" me yet your posts, patterns and evidence on here says otherwise. I guess it's random fate then right how i happen to post in another forum completely and yet funny, every time here you are addressing me every chance you get, seriously? You're not fooling anyone..incorrect, you are yet again making false assumptions about my knowledge yet it was me who has corrected you various times on various topics be it terminator or mk or dc topics. Get over it, you were wrong and you can't just cry "this guy is insulting" when the reality is i'm NOT. Again, i'll ask you where are your comics then? post them and i'll post mine tomorrow, i have two draws full of them not counting the ones i read via digital comics.

I'm well aware of the rules, I suggest you do the same. Not once in this entire topic have in insulted or flamed anyone so don't even start with that nonsense again, the reality is you don't like what i have to say and are crying over it, too bad. I'm as entitled to my views as much as anyone else here so deal with it and get off my back already. You find me irrelevant?right...that's why you went out of your way to address me suddenly in this topic?

I can't post scans right now since i'm on an internet app atm, but tomorrow on my desktop, i will if you want me to. There have been times ds's beams just ko superman or knock him back, ww has literally deflected his beams, flash has outrun them...in the new 52 and Superman was koed by them in the new 52 as well.

Posted by Vaeternus

@nick_hero22 said:

@Vaeternus:

I'm a little behind on my comic book collection (I'm a college student), but here goes what I have available on my Comixology account. You care to substantiate your comic book collection?

I'll do so tomorrow or im them to you, i'm not on my PC right now but on an app. I may just make a video on my layout since a lot of mine are paper/fine print or older comics. The rest i read online through digital comics or comic sites that have older issues up.There are also a lot ofolder mk comics hard to get now so i read them via online kami.

Posted by New_World_Order

Interesting.

Posted by God_Spawn

@nick_hero22: @Vaeternus: Both of you guys need to chill out.

Moderator
Posted by jynxjaguar

I'm really glad to see there are so many responses to this article, and many great points of view, along with... others.... I'd like to point out the discrepancies in the two taking on their worlds' more powerful characters:

Yeah, T'Challa can take a hit from the Hulk. That's fairly amazing in and of itself. However, he really can't even seriously hurt the Hulk enough to make it a fight, and he sure as hell can't outlast the Hulk in a drawn out fight.

Yeah, there have been a couple of times Batman has put Supes out. Hush is a good example, and in one of Waverider's futures, he actually kills the Big Red S, but he also brought back up in Superman's crippling weakness. Comparably, this would be like saying a man fighting a werewolf with the man in spiked silver armor with silver blades and a machine gun filled with silver bullets was a fair fight.

The argument on who else they've fought is invalid, because whoever else they fought IS NOT WHO THEY'RE FIGHTING NOW. Each could easily underestimate the other if they had never met, they are both geniuses and will have to think on their feet, and neither of them is going to be willing to let a smart opponent get away and have time to plan. It's a tough fight to ref, I mean, really REALLY tough, and I seriously like both combatants.

Posted by k4tzm4n
Staff
Edited by nick_hero22

@Vaeternus:

Do you mind posting links to these topics that I was corrected in, and I still want those scans with some context attached to them.

Posted by batmanary

@TrueMarvel said:

@batmanary said:

@PowerPuck said:

@batmanary said:

By your logic, King Abdullah of Jordan could beat Batman. Their training is not that extensive, buddy. Though I will concede that I do not follow BP. And my post does state IMO.

wakanda is primarily a warrior nation above everything else. they to learn to fight before becoming the most technologically advanced. their training is extensive. t'challa was trained from early childhood, and to become king, he had to defeat wakanda's best warriors and the current black panther at the time of the rite of ascension. one cannot be considered to rule as black panther if he's not well-trained warrior.

you've admitted that you don't follow black panther, so how would you know if his training is extensive or not, on top of comparing him to a realistic king that's not even as skilled as he is? if t'challa's training isn't that extensive, how is he able to fight people like captain america, iron fist, a skrull with the fighting skills of marvel's best fighters, one shot karnak twice, and study every fighting style there is?

I was more or less pointing out the issue with him bringing up the fact that he was a king and that it was pretty irrelevant to the conversation. Now, my point being, you can be the greatest warrior in Wakanda, but where exactly did he learn every fighting style there is? I already put my opinion on that subject earlier on.

So... you are spectical of how BP learned every MA style... but you accept the fact that Batman mastered every style in the world in 5 years? while getting a multitude of PHDs in the same span? Double standards.

I already mentioned this in my first post. I know you have read it, and I certainly did address that fact.

Posted by batmanary

@PowerPuck said:

@batmanary said:

I was more or less pointing out the issue with him bringing up the fact that he was a king and that it was pretty irrelevant to the conversation. Now, my point being, you can be the greatest warrior in Wakanda, but where exactly did he learn every fighting style there is? I already put my opinion on that subject earlier on.

t'challa traveled the world to hone his intelligence and his fighting skills many years before he returned to wakanda to take the throne. there's that large gap in his history where one could draw many possibilities. but, ultimately, there's no indication of where he learned these fighting styles, but only that he simply learned them. there are also instances of him training in his palace in a number of his books. other than that, his extent of his training isn't as fleshed out at batman's is (and if I recall correctly, character that aren't as popular but are considered good fighters suffer from the same thing t'challa does). it doesn't mean that we should write of t'challa because of how vague the extent of his training may be, because in spite of that, he shown many times that he's one of marvel's best fighters.

your opinion is respected, though.

Thank you. Now frankly, it is my opinion that if it isn't fleshed out, then I disregard it as pseudo-PIS, but I can also see how others may not, and I completely respect that opinion. I just don't happen to see it that way. :)

Posted by Vaeternus

@god_spawn said:

@Vaeternus: Both of you guys need to chill out.

I'm all good dude, I just want this guy to stop following me around the forums...

@k4tzm4n said:

Don't forget to check out the official discussion thread and say who you'd want to see next in the feature.

Cool, do you do strickly comic book characters or characters outside of comics too? I'll check it out, I like your articles ;) especially the Injustice updates lol everytime I find out new news I check to see if you've made a topic first now lol.

@nick_hero22

The Source protects both Superman and Darkseid but past stories still show inconsistencies...in terms of power, which I'll show you now. Example, one arch Spectre literally destroyed/killed Darkseid but due to the Source not allowing it, it revived Darkseid seconds after Spectre kill him...After COIE arch, DS's powers have been known to be inconsistent..where as Pre-Crisis, OTOH, he was so far beyond Pre-Crisis Superman that Supes couldn't hope to win....in terms of physical power, they're roughly equal but being as how DS has the Omegga Beams and Omegga Effect that gives him a big edge.

OTOH Darkseid could most likely punk the JL if he wanted, yet in other archs they've defeated or dealt with him. So more or less a lot of DS stories fighting Superman or other Leaguers are CIS or PIS since he could just disintegrate them via his beams, yet doesn't...

Here Darkseid pretty much makes Superman look like a chump...Action Comics #638

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/action638-2122horus.jpg

Yet....

During Countdown to Final Crisis, Superman takes his Omegga Beams straight up while they make him bleed...Superman holding his own if not winning until DS uses kryptonite...since he was losing to Superman...He then gets desperate and releases Olsen's power that DS had supplied him with and releases kryptonite radiation from Jimmy and thus K.O.'s Superman because of it, but prior to that you can see for yourself normal Omegga Beam does nothing to Superman...

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown3p07.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown3p08.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown3p09.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown3p10.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown3p11.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown3p13.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown3p14.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown3p15.jpg

Here in Superman Confidential 10, DS blasts Superman yet again with his Omega Beams and merely stuns Superman as Superman says "That your best shot" then proceeds to take it...

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Supermanconfidential010_13.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Supermanconfidential010_14.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Supermanconfidential010_16.jpg

Another story where Superman takes DS's beams like nothing...

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8228/takingomegabeams29na.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1700/takingomegabeams37fi.jpg

Superman tossing DS into the Sun...

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5647/supermanbatman13pg114cl.jpg

Then there was The Superman/Batman:Apokolips storyline where after Superman and Batman rescue Supergirl from DS, Superman fights and beats DS unconscience and proceeds to fly him literally to the edge of the universe to the source wall...on his own.

New 52 Darkseid's beam actually K.O.'s Clark/Superman, he survives but clearly new 52 implies DS is far more powerful then Superman is at least right now...

So there's your Darkseid inconsistencies over time...as many people admit who follow DC comics.

As for my comic collection, this is a lot of it.

NOTE: not all of it...I have more smallvilles in one of my bins as well as a few japanese comics and Classified: Justice League vs. Kid Amazo. Classifieds aren't made anymore and DC killed it a while ago long before the new 52, they were more or less "Elseworlds" types of stories...

In total as you'll see in my video, I have over 40 comics shown there in total(not counting the ones I didn't show in this video that I own.

I also follow some digitals but am not buying the Injustice ones purposely because I have the collectors edition pre-ordered which comes with the comic prequel in on package. That I will review once I get it if not right away.

I'll see if I can dig out the others not seen in this video though since I actually want to get all my comics together instead of spread out.

MK comics I read daily

http://www.kamidogu.com/multimedia/comics/

Posted by SUNMAN

Batman would get the snot beat out of him worse, than when he got destroyed by Bronze Tiger or Bane.

Being objective classic BP has the stats advantage, and he has no moral hangups about what he needs to do to win a fight. He doesn't handicap himself.

Posted by comicace3

@Alexander505 said:

Stalemate...again

Online
Posted by Winterman

T'Challa wins.

batman will not kill. he is not a superhuman. T'Challa will kill and is a superhuman.

Setting aside so-called prep time issues, the longer the fight goes, the more likely T'Challa will realize there's no way to put Batman down unless he puts him down permanently. Meanwhile, even realizing that same thing, Batman will NOT cross that line.

The fight ends with a dead batman and a very regretful Panther limping into his royal chambers and calling for his royal doctors.

Edited by nick_hero22

@Vaeternus said:

@god_spawn said:

@Vaeternus: Both of you guys need to chill out.

I'm all good dude, I just want this guy to stop following me around the forums...

@k4tzm4n said:

Don't forget to check out the official discussion thread and say who you'd want to see next in the feature.

Cool, do you do strickly comic book characters or characters outside of comics too? I'll check it out, I like your articles ;) especially the Injustice updates lol everytime I find out new news I check to see if you've made a topic first now lol.

@nick_hero22

The Source protects both Superman and Darkseid but past stories still show inconsistencies...in terms of power, which I'll show you now. Example, one arch Spectre literally destroyed/killed Darkseid but due to the Source not allowing it, it revived Darkseid seconds after Spectre kill him...After COIE arch, DS's powers have been known to be inconsistent..where as Pre-Crisis, OTOH, he was so far beyond Pre-Crisis Superman that Supes couldn't hope to win....in terms of physical power, they're roughly equal but being as how DS has the Omegga Beams and Omegga Effect that gives him a big edge.

OTOH Darkseid could most likely punk the JL if he wanted, yet in other archs they've defeated or dealt with him. So more or less a lot of DS stories fighting Superman or other Leaguers are CIS or PIS since he could just disintegrate them via his beams, yet doesn't...

Here Darkseid pretty much makes Superman look like a chump...Action Comics #638

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/action638-2122horus.jpg

Yet....

During Countdown to Final Crisis, Superman takes his Omegga Beams straight up while they make him bleed...Superman holding his own if not winning until DS uses kryptonite...since he was losing to Superman...He then gets desperate and releases Olsen's power that DS had supplied him with and releases kryptonite radiation from Jimmy and thus K.O.'s Superman because of it, but prior to that you can see for yourself normal Omegga Beam does nothing to Superman...

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown3p07.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown3p08.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown3p09.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown3p10.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown3p11.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown3p13.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown3p14.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown3p15.jpg

Here in Superman Confidential 10, DS blasts Superman yet again with his Omega Beams and merely stuns Superman as Superman says "That your best shot" then proceeds to take it...

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Supermanconfidential010_13.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Supermanconfidential010_14.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Supermanconfidential010_16.jpg

Another story where Superman takes DS's beams like nothing...

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8228/takingomegabeams29na.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1700/takingomegabeams37fi.jpg

Superman tossing DS into the Sun...

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5647/supermanbatman13pg114cl.jpg

Then there was The Superman/Batman:Apokolips storyline where after Superman and Batman rescue Supergirl from DS, Superman fights and beats DS unconscience and proceeds to fly him literally to the edge of the universe to the source wall...on his own.

New 52 Darkseid's beam actually K.O.'s Clark/Superman, he survives but clearly new 52 implies DS is far more powerful then Superman is at least right now...

So there's your Darkseid inconsistencies over time...as many people admit who follow DC comics.

As for my comic collection, this is a lot of it.

NOTE: not all of it...I have more smallvilles in one of my bins as well as a few japanese comics and Classified: Justice League vs. Kid Amazo. Classifieds aren't made anymore and DC killed it a while ago long before the new 52, they were more or less "Elseworlds" types of stories...

In total as you'll see in my video, I have over 40 comics shown there in total(not counting the ones I didn't show in this video that I own.

I also follow some digitals but am not buying the Injustice ones purposely because I have the collectors edition pre-ordered which comes with the comic prequel in on package. That I will review once I get it if not right away.

I'll see if I can dig out the others not seen in this video though since I actually want to get all my comics together instead of spread out.

MK comics I read daily

http://www.kamidogu.com/multimedia/comics/

I was wrong and I'm glad that you read some comics, but having a collection of over 40 individual comics hardly classifies you as an expert let alone an avid reader since there are hundreds of single issues of Superman related comics. So, I'm still not understanding on what grounds do you have to claim that Entropy is lacking knowledge (when in fact based off previous threads he has participated, he has shown to be quite knowledgeable) when you have just barely scratched the surface yourself. You can't really claim that Darkseid's character is riddled with inconsistencies when you have only a couple of his appearances, and you even confirmed my speculation that other plot elements outside of Superman's control allow him to survive a blast from Darkseid's Omega Beams (The Source) among other things; comic book characters are constantly evolving and changing with the times this is not a abnormal phenomenon and it doesn't constitute to a inconsistency, it's basically a re-evaluation of certain aspects in order to create better stories and more interesting characters. I'm sure there are a few inconsistencies here and there, but they aren't as major as you are proposing them to be. DC most likely has a staff dedicated to actually reviewing over the material that is released to make sure that their is some semblance of consistency because that could start to effect sells and turn off a lot of readers who regularly buy their material due to it not being coherent in terms of characterization, plot, timelines, character association and interaction, and etc. which makes for some very confusing story telling.

Posted by Vaeternus

@comicace3 said:

@Alexander505 said:

Stalemate...again

After reading more into BP(since I'm familiar with Batman) I can see this in a random fight.

Prep I think it's close too, but IDK overall still going Batman for me.

@nick_hero22

Anytime ;) but yes I do read comics, namely DC(as you can see) and like I said I DO have more but I just didn't feel like digging all of them out so I posted those, plus those are newer anyway. But yeah, I never said I was an "expert" just that I read comics and follow DC and know a lot more then you have given me credit to. Yes, MK is my favorite game and I'm a hardcore, competitive gamer but that being said doesn't mean that's all I like.

As for Enthropy I felt he was wrong because he was underestimating Batman's prep, which you of all people should know he's a master of god knows I've seen you post tons of panels in past Batman topics to prove why you think Batman would win against even more powerful people then BP even at times...

I've always liked the JL far more then Marvel's Avengers and I think you get that vibe now. Obviously, and I'm sure you can understand there's FAR too many comics to possibly get every one of them unless you have serious money to play with and/or the room. Plus, for this very reason I don't want to get too involved in many archs because then I'll wind up buying every issue and before you know it, I'll have no room for them. I already have bins full of my favorite game informers, EGM's, Gamepros etc from the 90's. Comics will only add to that clutter but I do indeed follow DC a lot.

If you can't see that DS over time is inconsistent with his power levels then I don't know what else to tell you, it's a fact. But hey don't take my word for it, just google "Is Darkseid's powers inconsistent" and watch what pops up, you'll notice I'm not the only person out there who feels this way...Just think, he's 10x more powerful then the JL on average yet they defeat him or due to CIS he struggles(Superman is one thing, it's Superman) but Batman with Radion bullet? WW deflecting his Omega Beams etc? If anything the new 52 seems more realistic with breaking GL's arm, KOing Superman and just overall kicking the JL's butt around as oppose to Pre-52...that's my point. One story you saw that I posted Superman tosses Darkseid into the Sun....yet in other archs including the new 52 DS's beams KO Superman or rough him up...badly so how is that not inconsistent with DS's power level?

You have to realize, the writer defines the power levels of the characters from Superman to Darkseid...this is no secret, if you don't see how both of their power levels are very inconsistent through out history of DC comics then I recommend you read more Superman and DS comics.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it just happens with different writers it's bound to happen...Marvel is no different with some of their characters too from Hulk to Thor to name a few. It's all about how the writer goes about it. Look at Injustice, most people would say GL vs. Superman is a good fight yet Superman in that comic made GL look like a chump...busted his bubble construct like nothing and literally sole his ring before Hal could react.

Posted by Bushwhacker_

I have to give this one to Batman.

Posted by comicace3

@Vaeternus: What you said sounds reasonable. I was actually going to side with batman but I didn't want/ have enough time to debate it. If I did I would just bombard the people with batman scans and call it a day.

Online
Posted by Vaeternus

@comicace3 said:

@Vaeternus: What you said sounds reasonable. I was actually going to side with batman but I didn't want/ have enough time to debate it. If I did I would just bombard the people with batman scans and call it a day.

You should definitely do so when you have time, I know of a lot of his crazier feats but since it's Batman much like Superman he's been in thousands of stories lol so I'm sure I missed something. But if you don't want to, I'll understand. He's just been in so many stories it's hard to follow every story you know?

Edited by comicace3

@Vaeternus said:

@comicace3 said:

@Vaeternus: What you said sounds reasonable. I was actually going to side with batman but I didn't want/ have enough time to debate it. If I did I would just bombard the people with batman scans and call it a day.

You should definitely do so when you have time, I know of a lot of his crazier feats but since it's Batman much like Superman he's been in thousands of stories lol so I'm sure I missed something. But if you don't want to, I'll understand. He's just been in so many stories it's hard to follow every story you know?

I see what you're saying. I usually go to the Batman respect thread and get my scans from there. They are mostly New 52. But it's pretty awesome. If I try to look for his crazier feats it'll take hours just gathering up the info.

Online
Posted by Vaeternus

@comicace3 said:

@Vaeternus said:

@comicace3 said:

@Vaeternus: What you said sounds reasonable. I was actually going to side with batman but I didn't want/ have enough time to debate it. If I did I would just bombard the people with batman scans and call it a day.

You should definitely do so when you have time, I know of a lot of his crazier feats but since it's Batman much like Superman he's been in thousands of stories lol so I'm sure I missed something. But if you don't want to, I'll understand. He's just been in so many stories it's hard to follow every story you know?

I see what you're saying. I usually go to the Batman respect thread and get my scans from there. They are mostly New 52. But it's pretty awesome. If I try to look for his crazier feats it'll take hours just gathering up the info.

I understand totally, is that Batman 1 mill on your avy? I was thinking of making a match Batman 1 mill vs. Black Panther ;)

Posted by comicace3

@Vaeternus said:

@comicace3 said:

@Vaeternus said:

@comicace3 said:

@Vaeternus: What you said sounds reasonable. I was actually going to side with batman but I didn't want/ have enough time to debate it. If I did I would just bombard the people with batman scans and call it a day.

You should definitely do so when you have time, I know of a lot of his crazier feats but since it's Batman much like Superman he's been in thousands of stories lol so I'm sure I missed something. But if you don't want to, I'll understand. He's just been in so many stories it's hard to follow every story you know?

I see what you're saying. I usually go to the Batman respect thread and get my scans from there. They are mostly New 52. But it's pretty awesome. If I try to look for his crazier feats it'll take hours just gathering up the info.

I understand totally, is that Batman 1 mill on your avy? I was thinking of making a match Batman 1 mill vs. Black Panther ;)

Well thank you for noticing. Yes it is Bats 1mill. And I see you have Sektor from MK. I think.

Online
Posted by Vaeternus

@comicace3 said:

@Vaeternus said:

@comicace3 said:

@Vaeternus said:

@comicace3 said:

@Vaeternus: What you said sounds reasonable. I was actually going to side with batman but I didn't want/ have enough time to debate it. If I did I would just bombard the people with batman scans and call it a day.

You should definitely do so when you have time, I know of a lot of his crazier feats but since it's Batman much like Superman he's been in thousands of stories lol so I'm sure I missed something. But if you don't want to, I'll understand. He's just been in so many stories it's hard to follow every story you know?

I see what you're saying. I usually go to the Batman respect thread and get my scans from there. They are mostly New 52. But it's pretty awesome. If I try to look for his crazier feats it'll take hours just gathering up the info.

I understand totally, is that Batman 1 mill on your avy? I was thinking of making a match Batman 1 mill vs. Black Panther ;)

Well thank you for noticing. Yes it is Bats 1mill. And I see you have Sektor from MK. I think.

Yep, oldschool Sektor. They updated in him MK9 though.

Posted by www.deadpoolforum.com

I absolutely love these!!

Edited by Umbraa

@Truemarvel, no you are wrong. Wakanda is very much a warrior nation as shown in "See Wakanda and Die" and also shown in the Kingpin Arc verse the Hand. The 18 tribes of Wakanda will and have fought each other. The title is also fought for in combat. So yes they are Advanced Tech and also warriors. Wakandan is a mix of tribal and futuristic. Tech and mysticism, old and new and they *are* a warrior nation. Not sure where you are getting your info from.

Posted by UncleEmu

The problem with all of these segments is this:

" the match will always be a random encounter (this means neither has knowledge on the other or prep time)"

Random simply has no effect on Batman (in his later years) and he always wins (or at least survives) because he always has the knowledge and prepares for everything. It's almost like his superpower. You can't take that away. Ignoring that though, yeah, Black Panther would win in a brawl. Or would Batman find a way to outsmart him?

Posted by jtwolf

I totally agree with this Black panther is to much of a O.G

Posted by Queso6p4

I definitely have to agree that T'Challa would win this one but at least it was a fairer match-up. That Wakandan tech is no joke.

Posted by SuperDoahBoy

King beats out CEO every time.

Posted by MyronLee26

It's funny seeing these whiny Batman fanboys getting there draws in a bunch. Face it, Batman DOES NOT WIN ALL THE TIME. Deal with it.

Posted by WaveMotionCannon

This!!! Bat fanboys can't take it lol.

Edited by Stronger

Black Panther has this one.

But Batman's skill is superior.

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