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Does Batman Always Win? Batman vs. Black Panther

Will The Dark Knight defeat Black Panther? Come find out what we think!

We've all seen the memes or heard the jokes before... Batman always wins. Why? Because he's Batman! As funny as this tends to be, I thought I'd turn it into a monthly segment to test that statement out. Batman obviously doesn't always win, but I thought it would be fun to see who he could defeat in fair, one on one battles with fellow street level characters that aren't from his universe.

To make sure the segment is always neutral, the match will always be a random encounter (this means neither has knowledge on the other or prep time) and in a generic, unpopulated city setting (at night but city lights are on). They'll start roughly 50 feet apart, have their standard gear and they will be in character. Naturally, they have the objective to defeat the other character. Just like over in the Battles Forums, the winner will be declared based on who I think will take the most victories in this scenario if it played out 10 times. Additionally, it's worth noting that this segment is treating all Pre-New 52 Batman feats as canon (New Earth, of course).

So far, I've placed The Dark Knight against Captain America (stalemate) and Wolverine (The X-Man wins). Now he's going face-to-face with a character drastically similar to him in a lot of regards -- Black Panther!

Credit: Rafael Neko Tumblr

This is usually where I break the segment up into three parts. I'd have one for Batman's advantages, one for Black Panther's advantages and then the verdict. However, in this case they are shockingly similar in so many elements and I feel it would be easiest to discuss these matters together. I'll bold and underline key points, too.

Hand-to-hand Skill

Both of these characters deserve praise for their technique and knowledge of martial arts and shouldn't be taken lightly.

Batman is a confirmed master of 127 different styles and has held his own or flat-out defeated some of the best street levelers in his universe. He's also embarrassed Nightwing and has overcome ridiculous amounts of enemies (BATMAN #16, for a recent example). He's no stranger to using nerve strikes (Solomon Grundy) and his peak human condition in combination with his skill allows him to give characters physically superior to him a tough time (Deathstroke, for example).

Meanwhile, T'Challa is often underrated when it comes to his effectiveness in this regard. AVX: VS #5 confirmed he's studied every fighting style in the world and, just like his opponent, knows how to use precision against physically superior characters. He's dropped Luke Cage, taken down Karnak, fought evenly and defeated Steve Rogers, and has brutally defeated a Super Skrull which had a wide variety of effective talents (Bullseye, Captain America, Elektra, Shang-Chi, and even T'Challa's).

These two are very close in this regard and I'd warrant a slight edge to Batman due to a more impressive selection of feats throughout his extensive history.

Equipment

I'll just come out and say it: I'm giving this edge to Black Panther. Batman has a huge assortment of of offensive and defensive gear at his disposal. Electric, gas, explosive, incendiary and cryo is barely scratching the surface of what Wayne can throw T'Challa's way, but ultimately, I don't believe they'll overcome the advantages Black Panther's vibranium armor provides. It grants a huge amount of protection against blunt trauma, stabbing damage (though cuts can penetrate if they go along the seams), and defend against the other attacks Batman has in his belt. As you can see in the image provided, Black Panther easily withstood a lightning strike from Storm, has endured hits from powerhouses including Hulk and Iron Man, taken volley of Iron Fist's chi-backed punches, and was perfectly fine after being shot by numerous assault rifles at point blank range. It goes without saying that his armor is quite protective.

Keep in mind, this is only addressing his durability against Wayne's attacks so far. When it comes to his offensive capabilities, T'Challa has deadly energy daggers and anti-metal claws which would absolutely tear through the Dark Knight's kevlar if it connects. The Marvel hero's boots allow him to withstand falls from greater heights and in a city setting that's definitely going to come in hand if a fight reaches a rooftop. Furtheremore, in NEW AVENGERS #1 we saw T'Challa has cloaking, teleporation and an energy shield. Wayne certainly brings a lot to the table, but in my opinion, T'Challa's goodies are simply more effective and provide just as much offensive and defensive variety in this case.

Mentality

Both are considered to be among the top human minds on their planet. The Caped Crusader is dubbed the greatest detective and T'Challa has a spot on the Iluminati for a reason (or at least was offered it). Both are masters of prep time, but since this is a random encounter, their absurdly good feats in this factor are really just moot points here.

What this comes down to is how both will act in this specific scenario and if either has the advantage when it comes to a tactical mindset. In that regard, I'd say both are roughly even. Both have the skill and intellect required to see subtle openings in their styles and are more than observant enough to not fall for obvious traps or tricks. However, when it comes to how far they'll go, I'd say T'Challa is the more brutal one. Wayne shocked me when he recently put a grappling line through Scarecrow's jaw, but T'Challa is a man that has no gripe ripping out eyes (Super Skrull) and, in NEW AVENGERS #1 (pictured above), he "basically ripped a dude in half" according to writer Jonathan Hickman.

Physicals

If this was made several months ago then they would be even in this regard. T'Challa was peak human while leaping around Matt Murdock's turf... but unfortunately for Batman, I'm making this feature now and Black Panther has once again been upgraded to above peak human (King of the Dead). T'Challa is now at least enhanced when it comes to his physicals, therefore he he takes this advantage. This isn't a huge advantage, though, since Batman has trained thoroughly enough to reach peak human condition.

The Verdict

So does Batman always win against Black Panther? In a random one on one fight, I think Black Panther would take the edge. Out of 10 fights, I'd probably grant him 6-7 hard fought victories over DC's Caped Crusader. Batman has the skill to eventually defeat him in unarmed combat, but sadly for him, this isn't unarmed combat. And while Bruce does have plenty of gear on his side, it'll take a lot to keep the Avenger down. It'll be a lengthy and brutal battle, but I see T'Challa's durability being the game changer.

There's now an official discussion thread for this monthly segment! Go there to make suggestions for future combatants (they need to be non-DC and street level!) and provide feedback!

Gregg Katzman is a freelance writer for Comic Vine and IGN Entertainment. When he's not lurking around Comic Vine (which is rare), you can find him on Twitter.

448 Comments
Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub

@citizenbane: Please Bane its obvious you're upset. The fact that you have to single me out in a thread and try to act like I'm a troll for saying something about a character you're a fan of is ridiculous. I'm not upset this is just a battle thread on a comic website, nothing to worry about. Your just another longwinded clown on the internet that takes himself a little too seriously. You must be thirsty Bane so please have a nice tall glass of STFU on me.

Posted by FadeToBlackBolt

@k4tzm4n: As said, my issue is that you seem to take into account all of Black Panther's best showings, but treat Batman with his standard, which is just wrong.

Also anything by Hickman shouldn't be counted as canon due to him being a terrible writer. To be honest, and this is my hang up not yours, your article lost me when I saw you acknowledged him.

Posted by Saren

@citizenbane: Please Bane its obvious you're upset. The fact that you have to single me out in a thread and try to act like I'm a troll for saying something about a character you're a fan of is ridiculous. I'm not upset this is just a battle thread on a comic website, nothing to worry about. Your just another longwinded clown on the internet that takes himself a little too seriously. You must be thirsty Bane so please have a nice tall glass of STFU on me.

Mmhmm.

The thing about holding an animated discussion is that both sides have to actually be capable of contributing to a discussion -----and clearly, that's not your forte ---- and that combined with aforementioned linguistic wizardry ("nice tall glass of STFU"? Is there a school I can attend to learn this stuff?) suggests that arguing with a troll who follows troll convention in insisting that he's not a troll is fairly pointless. I also don't want to derail K4's thread too long, so adieu, sunshine.

But hey, 50 bucks says you'll be there on the next Batman thread, saying the same thing, regardless of whether you actually know anything about either character, and the same exclamations of innocence will follow. You know it. I know it. Let's not even deny it.

Moderator
Edited by k4tzm4n

@k4tzm4n: As said, my issue is that you seem to take into account all of Black Panther's best showings, but treat Batman with his standard, which is just wrong.

Also anything by Hickman shouldn't be counted as canon due to him being a terrible writer. To be honest, and this is my hang up not yours, your article lost me when I saw you acknowledged him.

Just because I don't say "remember that time Loeb made Sabretooth almost kill Black Panther?" in the article doesn't mean I'm not taking these things into consideration when brainstorming. After all, I did indeed cite how his armor can be cut along the seams -- a thought which absolutely stemmed from his rather embarrassing loss against Kraven's son and his numerous battles with Killmonger. At the same rate, I don't feel as though I said anything regarding Batman to blatantly insult him, either. I did indeed briefly mention his fights with Deathstroke, but only the fact he was indeed able to give him hell -- even if he did ultimately lose. Sure, you can disagree with my outcomes all you want, but I really don't believe I was ignoring Batman's best showings and only focusing on his mediocre/low level or anything like that.

lol. Well, seeing as I always try to use current versions, it would seem unwise for me and unfair (not to mention ignorant) for me to simply disregard all of the things that have happened to T'Challa over the past several months.

Posted by Saren

@lone_wolf_and_cub: I mean, at the risk of buying into your paranoia, you don't even bother with fresh patter. I literally just had to Google up one of the other DBAW's, and guess what comment met my gaze.

At the very least you could switch up the terminology you use while innocently bashing Batman fans. "butthurt Bat Fanboys" is practically your signature phrase at this point.

Keep telling me how much you really love Batman, though. Maybe someone will buy that load of crap the thirty-eighth time around.

I really am going now. Adios.

Moderator
Edited by FadeToBlackBolt

@k4tzm4n: Ugh, I wrote up a long, misanthropic and entirely valid post, but it got wiped by f*cking Chrome.

Here are the dot points;

  • You're Staff, sycophants on this site believe anything you say, so you have to write down everything you consider
  • I'm a fan of yours, but not these articles as I do believe, intentionally or not, they're biased as Hell.
  • Not your fault people are stupid, but you have to consider it. If you validate someone like Hickman's incompetence, so will the sheep.
Edited by Wolverine08

Black Panther wins, and I'll go into detail about why I think so.

Physicals: Batman is at the absolute peak of human physicality, and has benched pressed 1,000 lbs, ripped trunks off of cars, and many other impressive feats, but Black Panther simply has him outclassed. Black Panther is officially labeled as superhuman after his King of the Dead enhancements, and has feats such as ripping a human male in half with ease, going up a building holding a grown man in by hair in less than ten seconds, has surprised Wolverine (someone with superhuman speed and agility) with his speed and agility, bulldozed and broke a 1.5 ton rhino's neck, surprised Spider-Man with his speed, and many other things. Simply, he's just in a different league physically than Bruce.

Fighting Skills: Batman is one of the greatest living fighters in the DC universe, and has mastered 127 fighting styles. He has beaten the likes of Lady Shiva, Bane, Cassandra Cain, Bronze Tiger, Prometheus, and many others. Bruce is just one of the best fighters in comics, period. Black Panther himself is also one of the best fighters in the Marvel Universe and has mastered all of the fighting styles in the world and has been trained in combat since the age of 6. He has beaten or stalemated some of the best fighters in Marvel like Captain America, Iron Fist, Daredevil, Wolverine, and many others. He is one of the best too. Overall I'd say T'Challa and Bruce are equals in this regard.

Intelligence: Bruce is one of the smartest men in DC, plain and simple. He has earned numerous high level degrees in the fields of Biology, Mathematics, Forensics, etc from prestigious universities at a young. Black Panther himself has been stated to be one of the 8 smartest men in the world, and has also earned numerous degrees from prestigious universities. His smarts have proven great enough to surprise and impress the likes of Reed Richards and Doctor Doom. Overall, I'd give T'Challa an edge when it comes to smarts.

Gadgets/Gear: Bruce Wayne, being the billionaire he is, has access to insane amounts of high tech gear and gadgets, and has many times being able to use them to go up against the likes of Superman. Due to his connections with Wakanda, Black Panther has access to arguably the most advanced technology in the world. He has shown to have massive amounts of vibranium weapons and technology at his disposal that should match anything Batman has. Overall, I'd say Black Panther reigns supreme in regards to technology.

Overall, I think Black Panther's edge in physicals and intelligence, along with his equal skills in fighting and technology with Batman should allow the King of the Dead to take this matchup over the Dark Knight 8.0-8.5/10 times.

Online
Edited by k4tzm4n

@fadetoblackbolt: Odd, chrome treats me well. Maybe you should be kinder to it :P

  • Honestly friend, writing EVERYTHING I CONSIDER for each of these would be an unrealistic task. Considering my time is limited due to the amount of features and other things I write for the site, it's just not reasonable nor would I be able to have one prepared every month (which is something heavily requested). Also, I think that would run the risk of being "TL;DR" for a majority. I try to keep them concise yet still cite what I believe are important factors in the fact. If they're going to blindly agree with everything I say, that's their mistake. I'm just one fan fortunate enough to have the opportunity to share my opinions on the homepage. I understand if they respect my opinion, but they should always conduct their own research, too. I think any reasonable individual does that. For those who don't... well, they're no different than the people who always make laughably polarized comments, claiming I either love or loathe Batman depending on the outcome that month. My passion for a character holds no weight here.
  • Well, you're totally entitled to think that, but, like I just said, I'd like to think I don't let bias get in the way. Hell, I said Batman would wreck the Turtles and Gambit, and my love for them is more than transparent. There's a reason I post these at the end of the month and it's because I spend the whole month refreshing my memory on both parties involved. Frankly, I don't see how thinking Batman vs. T'Challa is a close fight (regardless of who comes out on top) is even close to being "biased as Hell."
  • Look, I get you don't like Hickman, but personally, I don't see why I should turn a blind eye to the past several months of developments with a character if they're being used in this segment. For example, that would be like me ignoring Way/Posehn/Duggan's work with Deadpool when I used him. I don't agree with how Deadpool is handled, but it's the direction the character has taken over the course of the past several years and something I must factor in -- regardless of me liking or hell. Not, NOT including it and using "HE'S A BADASS ONLY!" would be, like you said, biased as Hell.
Posted by FadeToBlackBolt

@wolverine08: Impressive write-up.

I will never know how you managed to do it without wanting to rip up every issue of Black Panther ever.

Edited by Wolverine08
Online
Posted by Wolverine08

@fadetoblackbolt:

But frankly, given Batman's penchant for preserving on in fights, and eventually beating people who on paper should beat him, I could honestly see him turning this match up in a tie with a 5/10 split for each combatant.

Online
Posted by FadeToBlackBolt

@wolverine08: From what you've said, T'Challa should win 9.5/10.

And that's just disgusting. Not because it's against Batman, but because it's just completely ridiculous.

Posted by entropy_aegis

Black Panther wins, and I'll go into detail about why I think so.

Physicals: Batman is at the absolute peak of human physicality, and has benched pressed 1,000 lbs, ripped trunks off of cars, and many other impressive feats, but Black Panther simply has him outclassed. Black Panther is officially labeled as superhuman after his King of the Dead enhancements, and has feats such as ripping a human male in half with ease, going up a building holding a grown man in by hair in less than ten seconds, has surprised Wolverine (someone with superhuman speed and agility) with his speed and agility, bulldozed and broke a 1.5 ton rhino's neck, surprised Spider-Man with his speed, and many other things. Simply, he's just in a different league physically than Bruce.

Fighting Skills: Batman is one of the greatest living fighters in the DC universe, and has mastered 127 fighting styles. He has beaten the likes of Lady Shiva, Bane, Cassandra Cain, Bronze Tiger, Prometheus, and many others. Bruce is just one of the best fighters in comics, period. Black Panther himself is also one of the best fighters in the Marvel Universe and has mastered all of the fighting styles in the world and has been trained in combat since the age of 6. He has beaten or stalemated some of the best fighters in Marvel like Captain America, Iron Fist, Daredevil, Wolverine, and many others. He is one of the best too. Overall I'd say T'Challa and Bruce are equals in this regard.

Intelligence: Bruce is one of the smartest men in DC, plain and simple. He has earned numerous high level degrees in the fields of Biology, Mathematics, Forensics, etc from prestigious universities at a young. Black Panther himself has been stated to be one of the 8 smartest men in the world, and has also earned numerous degrees from prestigious universities. His smarts have proven great enough to surprise and impress the likes of Reed Richards and Doctor Doom. Overall, I'd give T'Challa an edge when it comes to smarts.

Gadgets/Gear: Bruce Wayne, being the billionaire he is, has access to insane amounts of high tech gear and gadgets, and has many times being able to use them to go up against the likes of Superman. Due to his connections with Wakanda, Black Panther has access to arguably the most advanced technology in the world. He has shown to have massive amounts of vibranium weapons and technology at his disposal that should match anything Batman has. Overall, I'd say these two technological juggernauts are equal in this regard too.

Overall, I think Black Panther's edge in physicals and intelligence, along with his equal skills in fighting and technology with Batman should allow the King of the Dead to take this matchup over the Dark Knight 6.0-6.5/10 times.

Good write up but I'd change it to give Batman the skill advantage and T'Challa the gear advantage with smarts being equal,but that's just me.

Edited by k4tzm4n

@entropy_aegis said:

@wolverine08 said:

Black Panther wins, and I'll go into detail about why I think so.

Physicals: Batman is at the absolute peak of human physicality, and has benched pressed 1,000 lbs, ripped trunks off of cars, and many other impressive feats, but Black Panther simply has him outclassed. Black Panther is officially labeled as superhuman after his King of the Dead enhancements, and has feats such as ripping a human male in half with ease, going up a building holding a grown man in by hair in less than ten seconds, has surprised Wolverine (someone with superhuman speed and agility) with his speed and agility, bulldozed and broke a 1.5 ton rhino's neck, surprised Spider-Man with his speed, and many other things. Simply, he's just in a different league physically than Bruce.

Fighting Skills: Batman is one of the greatest living fighters in the DC universe, and has mastered 127 fighting styles. He has beaten the likes of Lady Shiva, Bane, Cassandra Cain, Bronze Tiger, Prometheus, and many others. Bruce is just one of the best fighters in comics, period. Black Panther himself is also one of the best fighters in the Marvel Universe and has mastered all of the fighting styles in the world and has been trained in combat since the age of 6. He has beaten or stalemated some of the best fighters in Marvel like Captain America, Iron Fist, Daredevil, Wolverine, and many others. He is one of the best too. Overall I'd say T'Challa and Bruce are equals in this regard.

Intelligence: Bruce is one of the smartest men in DC, plain and simple. He has earned numerous high level degrees in the fields of Biology, Mathematics, Forensics, etc from prestigious universities at a young. Black Panther himself has been stated to be one of the 8 smartest men in the world, and has also earned numerous degrees from prestigious universities. His smarts have proven great enough to surprise and impress the likes of Reed Richards and Doctor Doom. Overall, I'd give T'Challa an edge when it comes to smarts.

Gadgets/Gear: Bruce Wayne, being the billionaire he is, has access to insane amounts of high tech gear and gadgets, and has many times being able to use them to go up against the likes of Superman. Due to his connections with Wakanda, Black Panther has access to arguably the most advanced technology in the world. He has shown to have massive amounts of vibranium weapons and technology at his disposal that should match anything Batman has. Overall, I'd say these two technological juggernauts are equal in this regard too.

Overall, I think Black Panther's edge in physicals and intelligence, along with his equal skills in fighting and technology with Batman should allow the King of the Dead to take this matchup over the Dark Knight 6.0-6.5/10 times.

Good write up but I'd change it to give Batman the skill advantage and T'Challa the gear advantage with smarts being equal,but that's just me.

Agreed for the most part, EA.

Thanks for expanding your thoughts, wolverine08.

Posted by Jaykidd718

Black panther takes this sorry guys... He has a arsenal that with him all the time from his light shield,cloaking and teleportation device, vibranium armor, daggers and anti-metal claws which pretty much cuts and resolves any metal down to its molecular structure.... He can set his energy daggers to stun or kill and he had now been named king of the dead which he now posses all of the strength and wisdom all panthers that had before him.... Bp is able to tap in the power at will and he also uses shadow physics which he can be bigger and stronger in strength and alchemy and mysticism... I don't get why everyone is saying that bp isn't on par with with batman I see he's better in every way. He's a master tactician and is one of thr smartest people in the marvel universe. He had built a contingency plan to stop galactus and used it on surfer to beat him.. He thinks 10 steps ahead of what your thinking and he had been trained and mastered all martial arts and has incorporated it in a style that no one can figure out. Panther for the win.

Edited by sidismail98

Skill and hand to hand goes to Batman, slightly.

Intellect goes to Batman, slightly.

Tech/weapons go to BP, slightly

Physicals go to BP, slightly, but Batman has fought physically stronger foes WITH h2h capabilities and won(Deathsroke).

2 points to Batman, 1.5 points to BP.

It's either a stalemate, or Batman wins since T'Challa's physical attributes won't do him much good.

Posted by sidismail98

@ umbraa:

@umbraa said:

This is hilarious. T'challa would and should beat Batman. The article was very fair to Bruce. Guy is punching holes through enemies and ripping them in half. He has cloaking, Invisiblity, and teleportation. He has the strength, knowledge and skills of 10,000 years of unconquerable Black Panthers. He's has a army of female assassins (see 500 fought off 100,000 traitors) to Bruce's "Boy wonders." He has technology that makes guns useless. His Panther,Royal and Dagger Quinjets are better then the Batwing, being able function in space, or underwater. He has giant voltron robots and flying saucers with Talon air-superiority fighter jets on board and 150 spec ops Warrors in battle armor positioned around the globe. T'challa is sorta like Batman 1 million. He can Prep just like Bruce. So this isn't a big deal. :)

Dude, those "Boy Wonders" have fought off immortal Owl Ninjas(court of owls). Did I mention the Owl ninjas were assassins trained from birth/childhood? AND have a healing factor. They've also fought off the League of assassins, most of the time on their own. You can't really compare an army of female assassins to guys who take down worldwide organizations of assassins in their spare time. Bat-Family>League of Assassins>Wakandan assassins. Batman has punched an armored SWAT officer through a brick wall and chopped down a tree with a single kick. All of this is done with little to no effort. Don't compare T'challa to Bats 1 Million. B1M will take any of them down in a split second. Your points only work if this is an all out war between Bat-Family and Wakanda, and even then the Bats would just call their cosmic level friends or sneak a nuke into Wakanda. This is just a random encounter between two guys, no jets, no armies or sidekicks. In terms of prep, Batman can do whatever BP can, only using his skill and intel better. He's hacked Darkseid's "unhackable" systems. Also modern day Bat-armor is bullet-proof. Even Nightwing said: Kevlar is outdated, when the gun-users he beat up asked what if he was wearing Kevlar. Batman is better in terms of hand to hand and intelligence(how do you think he sits at the table next to Greek Demi-Goddesses and aliens?). He saved the world about three times, and that's just in Justice League books. One time was from a threat HE created. OMACs and Brother Eye were so advanced, Brainiac wanted them. I can't count how many times he's saved the world from nukes or evil dictators in his own comics. And all the BP fans say the Bat fans know nothing of BP. OH the irony. People tend to underestimate Batman and brush his skills, intellect and feats under the carpet or call them PIS. Also according to what happened in some fights:

Batman>Captain America(cap help his own due to physical enhancement)>Black Panther (BP isn't nearly as enhanced as Cap)

If my post is insulting, I apologize. I just wanted to point out that Bruce is better than T'challa in some areas.

Arm Wrestling(physical strength): BP wins

I.Q(book smarts): Batman

Chess game(tactics): Batman wins

Comparing tech: BP wins.(although Batman has fought advanced aliens alongside the JL and the day was saved thanks to his cunning and tactics)

Martial arts: Batman wins.

I say it's a stalemate, or Batman winning(by the skin of his teeth). Knives aren't that hard to dodge. But then again so are Batarangs, unless they have "special effects".

Posted by GrenadeFlow

Skill and hand to hand goes to Batman, slightly.

Intellect goes to Batman, slightly.

Tech/weapons go to BP, slightly

Physicals go to BP, slightly, but Batman has fought physically stronger foes WITH h2h capabilities and won(Deathsroke).

2 points to Batman, 1.5 points to BP.

It's either a stalemate, or Batman wins since T'Challa's physical attributes won't do him much good.

umm

He just defeated Thanos strongest General. You need to start judging the updated BP not the old BP

Posted by russellmania77

Nope batman wins

Posted by Wolverine08

@sidismail98: Lol, what? Batmam does not have an edge in martial arts skill or intelligence, and feats prove so. And Black Panther does not have a slight physical edge, his physical edge over Batman is pretty moderate, especially in strength.

Online
Posted by sidismail98

@grenadeflow: I just googled modern BP's abilities. It says at his peak, he can lift just under 800 pounds. Meanwhile Batman regularly bench presses 1000(Key word: REGULARLY).

Posted by sidismail98

@wolverine08: Batman beat Lady Shiva. She's like the third best in DC. He was trained by Richard Dragon, who's second best(Karate Kid is first, but he's from the future, so no wonder he's better). Correct me if I'm wrong(pleas do) but T'challa's max is 800 pounds, while Batman regularly Bench-presses 1000 pounds.(key word: REGULARLY). Batman's hacked alien computers and built Brother Eye and OMACs. If that's not impressive, I don't know what is. So I still say Martial arts and Intel goes to Bats.

Posted by Wolverine08

@sidismail98:

What? Black Panther has beaten/stalemated Marvel's best fighters like Iron Fist, Captain America, Kraven the Hunter, and even beat a Super Skrull with the fighting skill of Shang Chi, Captain America, Elektra, Moon Knight, and Panther himself. He's also been noted to know all the world's martial arts. Batman does not have a skill edge.

Panther's strength feats outclass Batman's, and considering how he's the 8th smartest man in the Marvel Universe, and has a plethora of feats to back up that intelligence, I don't see how Batman is smarter.

From reading your other posts, it seems that you have don't know much about Panther.

Online
Posted by 14NC3

Black Panther wins, and I'll go into detail about why I think so.

Physicals: Batman is at the absolute peak of human physicality, and has benched pressed 1,000 lbs, ripped trunks off of cars, and many other impressive feats, but Black Panther simply has him outclassed. Black Panther is officially labeled as superhuman after his King of the Dead enhancements, and has feats such as ripping a human male in half with ease, going up a building holding a grown man in by hair in less than ten seconds, has surprised Wolverine (someone with superhuman speed and agility) with his speed and agility, bulldozed and broke a 1.5 ton rhino's neck, surprised Spider-Man with his speed, and many other things. Simply, he's just in a different league physically than Bruce.

Fighting Skills: Batman is one of the greatest living fighters in the DC universe, and has mastered 127 fighting styles. He has beaten the likes of Lady Shiva, Bane, Cassandra Cain, Bronze Tiger, Prometheus, and many others. Bruce is just one of the best fighters in comics, period. Black Panther himself is also one of the best fighters in the Marvel Universe and has mastered all of the fighting styles in the world and has been trained in combat since the age of 6. He has beaten or stalemated some of the best fighters in Marvel like Captain America, Iron Fist, Daredevil, Wolverine, and many others. He is one of the best too. Overall I'd say T'Challa and Bruce are equals in this regard.

Intelligence: Bruce is one of the smartest men in DC, plain and simple. He has earned numerous high level degrees in the fields of Biology, Mathematics, Forensics, etc from prestigious universities at a young. Black Panther himself has been stated to be one of the 8 smartest men in the world, and has also earned numerous degrees from prestigious universities. His smarts have proven great enough to surprise and impress the likes of Reed Richards and Doctor Doom. Overall, I'd give T'Challa an edge when it comes to smarts.

Gadgets/Gear: Bruce Wayne, being the billionaire he is, has access to insane amounts of high tech gear and gadgets, and has many times being able to use them to go up against the likes of Superman. Due to his connections with Wakanda, Black Panther has access to arguably the most advanced technology in the world. He has shown to have massive amounts of vibranium weapons and technology at his disposal that should match anything Batman has. Overall, I'd say these two technological juggernauts are equal in this regard too.

Overall, I think Black Panther's edge in physicals and intelligence, along with his equal skills in fighting and technology with Batman should allow the King of the Dead to take this matchup over the Dark Knight 6.0-6.5/10 times.

QFT. This is a really good argument. This should put bat fans in their place XD.

IMO black panther has a slight edge over batman in gear and i think he takes a win 8/10 times.

Posted by Wolverine08

@14nc3 said:

@wolverine08 said:

Black Panther wins, and I'll go into detail about why I think so.

Physicals: Batman is at the absolute peak of human physicality, and has benched pressed 1,000 lbs, ripped trunks off of cars, and many other impressive feats, but Black Panther simply has him outclassed. Black Panther is officially labeled as superhuman after his King of the Dead enhancements, and has feats such as ripping a human male in half with ease, going up a building holding a grown man in by hair in less than ten seconds, has surprised Wolverine (someone with superhuman speed and agility) with his speed and agility, bulldozed and broke a 1.5 ton rhino's neck, surprised Spider-Man with his speed, and many other things. Simply, he's just in a different league physically than Bruce.

Fighting Skills: Batman is one of the greatest living fighters in the DC universe, and has mastered 127 fighting styles. He has beaten the likes of Lady Shiva, Bane, Cassandra Cain, Bronze Tiger, Prometheus, and many others. Bruce is just one of the best fighters in comics, period. Black Panther himself is also one of the best fighters in the Marvel Universe and has mastered all of the fighting styles in the world and has been trained in combat since the age of 6. He has beaten or stalemated some of the best fighters in Marvel like Captain America, Iron Fist, Daredevil, Wolverine, and many others. He is one of the best too. Overall I'd say T'Challa and Bruce are equals in this regard.

Intelligence: Bruce is one of the smartest men in DC, plain and simple. He has earned numerous high level degrees in the fields of Biology, Mathematics, Forensics, etc from prestigious universities at a young. Black Panther himself has been stated to be one of the 8 smartest men in the world, and has also earned numerous degrees from prestigious universities. His smarts have proven great enough to surprise and impress the likes of Reed Richards and Doctor Doom. Overall, I'd give T'Challa an edge when it comes to smarts.

Gadgets/Gear: Bruce Wayne, being the billionaire he is, has access to insane amounts of high tech gear and gadgets, and has many times being able to use them to go up against the likes of Superman. Due to his connections with Wakanda, Black Panther has access to arguably the most advanced technology in the world. He has shown to have massive amounts of vibranium weapons and technology at his disposal that should match anything Batman has. Overall, I'd say these two technological juggernauts are equal in this regard too.

Overall, I think Black Panther's edge in physicals and intelligence, along with his equal skills in fighting and technology with Batman should allow the King of the Dead to take this matchup over the Dark Knight 6.0-6.5/10 times.

QFT. This is a really good argument. This should put bat fans in their place XD.

IMO black panther has a slight edge over batman in gear and i think he takes a win 8/10 times.

I agree. I think Classic Panther beats Batman 8/10, and the current upgraded Panther beats Batman 10/10. I agree looking back that Panther has the gear edge too.

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Posted by sidismail98

@sidismail98:

What? Black Panther has beaten/stalemated Marvel's best fighters like Iron Fist, Captain America, Kraven the Hunter, and even beat a Super Skrull with the fighting skill of Shang Chi, Captain America, Elektra, Moon Knight, and Panther himself. He's also been noted to know all the world's martial arts. Batman does not have a skill edge.

Panther's strength feats outclass Batman's, and considering how he's the 8th smartest man in the Marvel Universe, and has a plethora of feats to back up that intelligence, I don't see how Batman is smarter.

From reading your other posts, it seems that you have don't know much about Panther.

I don't see how that's anything Batman couldn't do. Even Batman, stalemated Cap, and he's below BP in physicals. Batman traveled the world and learned from people the government don't know exist. Batman outsmarted Lex Luthor, a level 9 intelligence. Even Brainiac admits Lex is so smart, he could talk Superman into suicide. Batman is somewhere between Lex and Mister Terrific. Again I say, I haven't seen anything in BP's martial arts feats Batman couldn't do. Physicals and gear go to BP. Skill and Intel go to Batman, deal with it.

Posted by Wolverine08

@wolverine08 said:

@sidismail98:

What? Black Panther has beaten/stalemated Marvel's best fighters like Iron Fist, Captain America, Kraven the Hunter, and even beat a Super Skrull with the fighting skill of Shang Chi, Captain America, Elektra, Moon Knight, and Panther himself. He's also been noted to know all the world's martial arts. Batman does not have a skill edge.

Panther's strength feats outclass Batman's, and considering how he's the 8th smartest man in the Marvel Universe, and has a plethora of feats to back up that intelligence, I don't see how Batman is smarter.

From reading your other posts, it seems that you have don't know much about Panther.

I don't see how that's anything Batman couldn't do. Even Batman, stalemated Cap, and he's below BP in physicals. Batman traveled the world and learned from people the government don't know exist. Batman outsmarted Lex Luthor, a level 9 intelligence. Even Brainiac admits Lex is so smart, he could talk Superman into suicide. Batman is somewhere between Lex and Mister Terrific. Again I say, I haven't seen anything in BP's martial arts feats Batman couldn't do. Physicals and gear go to BP. Skill and Intel go to Batman, deal with it.

You're trolling now. Batman stalemated Cap in a non canon crossover event were Storm beat Wonder Woman. Skill and Intelligence don't go to Batman.

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Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21

@sidismail98 said:

@wolverine08 said:

@sidismail98:

What? Black Panther has beaten/stalemated Marvel's best fighters like Iron Fist, Captain America, Kraven the Hunter, and even beat a Super Skrull with the fighting skill of Shang Chi, Captain America, Elektra, Moon Knight, and Panther himself. He's also been noted to know all the world's martial arts. Batman does not have a skill edge.

Panther's strength feats outclass Batman's, and considering how he's the 8th smartest man in the Marvel Universe, and has a plethora of feats to back up that intelligence, I don't see how Batman is smarter.

From reading your other posts, it seems that you have don't know much about Panther.

I don't see how that's anything Batman couldn't do. Even Batman, stalemated Cap, and he's below BP in physicals. Batman traveled the world and learned from people the government don't know exist. Batman outsmarted Lex Luthor, a level 9 intelligence. Even Brainiac admits Lex is so smart, he could talk Superman into suicide. Batman is somewhere between Lex and Mister Terrific. Again I say, I haven't seen anything in BP's martial arts feats Batman couldn't do. Physicals and gear go to BP. Skill and Intel go to Batman, deal with it.

You're trolling now. Batman stalemated Cap in a non canon crossover event were Storm beat Wonder Woman. Skill and Intelligence don't go to Batman.

He's a well known Batman fanboy, just back away now.

Edited by Wolverine08

@wolverine08 said:

@sidismail98 said:

@wolverine08 said:

@sidismail98:

What? Black Panther has beaten/stalemated Marvel's best fighters like Iron Fist, Captain America, Kraven the Hunter, and even beat a Super Skrull with the fighting skill of Shang Chi, Captain America, Elektra, Moon Knight, and Panther himself. He's also been noted to know all the world's martial arts. Batman does not have a skill edge.

Panther's strength feats outclass Batman's, and considering how he's the 8th smartest man in the Marvel Universe, and has a plethora of feats to back up that intelligence, I don't see how Batman is smarter.

From reading your other posts, it seems that you have don't know much about Panther.

I don't see how that's anything Batman couldn't do. Even Batman, stalemated Cap, and he's below BP in physicals. Batman traveled the world and learned from people the government don't know exist. Batman outsmarted Lex Luthor, a level 9 intelligence. Even Brainiac admits Lex is so smart, he could talk Superman into suicide. Batman is somewhere between Lex and Mister Terrific. Again I say, I haven't seen anything in BP's martial arts feats Batman couldn't do. Physicals and gear go to BP. Skill and Intel go to Batman, deal with it.

You're trolling now. Batman stalemated Cap in a non canon crossover event were Storm beat Wonder Woman. Skill and Intelligence don't go to Batman.

He's a well known Batman fanboy, just back away now.

Oh, ok. Thanks man!

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Posted by sidismail98

@wolverine08: I know it wasn't canon. That part was probably the only part that made sense in the crossover.

Posted by Wolverine08
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Edited by Wolverine08

Looking back on this thread, most of the people would said Batman wins either knew next to nothing about Black Panther, or gave some of the STUPIDEST arguments for Batman I have ever seen in my life.

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Posted by sidismail98

@wolverine08: Thanks! I'm famous! For arguing FOR Batman. Batman haters are hypocrites. They say the person arguing FOR Batman doesn't know anything about the opponent, while they know nothing of Batman. Batman's feats are PIS, while Spiderman and Captain America hurting the Hulk ISN'T PIS for some reason. Who gets to decide what's PIS and what's not? In terms of skill, no one has showed me anything BP has done that Batman can't do. Think about it. Batman holding back can beat up people with Superstrength and lift 1000 pounds with ease and one punch Cassasndra Cain and Hold Wonder Woman in a Choke Lock. Batman's greatest skill feats are him holding back. Deathsroke himself commented "Batman hits harder than most beings with superstrength". Obviously he's referring to enhanced people. BP is enhanced, and not even that much. Also, PLEASE actually debate with me. I can accept that Batman can't beat everyone. Instead of calling me a blind fanboy, prove it.

Posted by Wolverine08

@wolverine08: Thanks! I'm famous! For arguing FOR Batman. Batman haters are hypocrites. They say the person arguing FOR Batman doesn't know anything about the opponent, while they know nothing of Batman. Batman's feats are PIS, while Spiderman and Captain America hurting the Hulk ISN'T PIS for some reason. Who gets to decide what's PIS and what's not? In terms of skill, no one has showed me anything BP has done that Batman can't do. Think about it. Batman holding back can beat up people with Superstrength and lift 1000 pounds with ease and one punch Cassasndra Cain and Hold Wonder Woman in a Choke Lock. Batman's greatest skill feats are him holding back. Deathsroke himself commented "Batman hits harder than most beings with superstrength". Obviously he's referring to enhanced people. BP is enhanced, and not even that much. Also, PLEASE actually debate with me. I can accept that Batman can't beat everyone. Instead of calling me a blind fanboy, prove it.

............

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Posted by sidismail98

@wolverine08: Classic Panther? Classic Panther wasn't all that. If he fought Classic Batman(adman west). It would be a curbstomp. Both sides have to be classic. 60's Adam West would pwn T'challa. He'd just spray him with Anti-Cat Batspray. He had spray for everything back then. There was even a time when the mayor and governor were disintegrated and he turned them back from dust/ash to people by spraying them. Batman has been upgraded too. Look at the New 52 Batsuit abilities.

Posted by Wolverine08
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Posted by GraniteSoldier

@wolverine08:

I like Panther and Batman, but yes Panther will win most of their random encounter fights. Panther has been just as well trained as Bruce in martial arts and combat, and has as many technological resources at his disposal. While I think Bruce is a better strategist, it doesn't help much in a random encounter. Tactically, they are fairly equal, having both been trained roughly equally. Panther's physicals being above Bruce's, with roughly equal skill, tactics, and tech, are really what will put him over. Panther often seems under-rated in his capabilities simply because he isn't as well known, but his resume speaks for itself. Panther doesn't get an easy win, and likewise neither would Bruce, but I think Panther edges a slighter majority of about 6-7/10.

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Edited by Wolverine08

@wolverine08:

I like Panther and Batman, but yes Panther will win most of their random encounter fights. Panther has been just as well trained as Bruce in martial arts and combat, and has as many technological resources at his disposal. While I think Bruce is a better strategist, it doesn't help much in a random encounter. Tactically, they are fairly equal, having both been trained roughly equally. Panther's physicals being above Bruce's, with roughly equal skill, tactics, and tech, are really what will put him over. Panther often seems under-rated in his capabilities simply because he isn't as well known, but his resume speaks for itself. Panther doesn't get an easy win, and likewise neither would Bruce, but I think Panther edges a slighter majority of about 6-7/10.

To be honest, I think Panther should take a strong 8/10 majority over Batman. Like you already mentioned, he's just as adept in martial arts as Batman. I also think T'Challa is sporting the more protean and deadly set of equipment with his vibranium suit, vibranium taggers, teleporter, and force field he has currently shown in New Avengers. I would also disagree with the idea that Batman is the better strategist since T'Challa downed Iron Man, Mephisto, and other powerful beings with prep, and even beat a Super Skrull with the combined skill of Captain America, Shang Chi, Moon Knight, Elektra, and himself just by studying his movements and seeing that he had "tells."You add in his pretty good physicals advantage over Bruce, I really don't see Batman taking more than 3 wins over T'Challa.

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Posted by Wolverine08

This article also reminded me how much of an a%shole Fade was :D

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Posted by Saren

There isn't an argument to be made for T'Challa being quite as skilled and technically proficient as Bruce that won't fall apart if you poke it too hard. Most arguments like this just involve disregarding stuff Bruce has done as PIS while accepting everything T'Challa has done.

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Posted by GraniteSoldier

@wolverine08:

I think Bruce's strategy and detective skills put him slightly higher. That is, after all, his thing. It's all he has to compete with many of his super-powered foes and enemies he fights with the Justice League. Granted, there are plenty of Bat-feats that are PiS, but all characters have that from time to time. Panther will win more, I agree, and although I may not be as big a Panther fan as you I am certainly not discrediting his accomplishments, but I believe Bruce does deserve his due in certain respects. But it is comic books and to each their own interpretation.

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Posted by Wolverine08

@granitesoldier:

Well said. And your labeling of Bruce being a better tactician than T'Challa has been much more logical than most of the arguments made for Batman here.

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Edited by GraniteSoldier

@wolverine08:

It is my estimation is all. On paper, they are pretty equal. But in terms of Panther having physicals to rely on vs Batman's lack of powers (he is not as strong/fast/durable as T'Challa in my opinion, though I know others have stated otherwise) means he has to strategize on a whole new level.

I just think of it like going into combat against a larger force, numerically speaking. If we know we have air cover, the plan is different than if we know we don't. Realistically, you plan for both and expect the worst case scenario.

Panther needs an ongoing to show off his bada**ery though.

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Posted by Wolverine08

@citizenbane: I would say it is actually quite the opposite Bane. From reading most of the comments here on this article, instead of seeing people labeling most of Batman's feats as PIS, I see a disgusting amount of underestimation and lack of knowledge regarding T'Challa. Now I frankly don't care if you think T'Challa is inferior to Bruce in the skill department because I really don't feel like debating that matter, I just notice you seem to make it out as if Batman has been the victim of egregious amounts of lowballing and underestimation throughout this article when largely the inverse has occurred.

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Posted by Wolverine08

@granitesoldier: Jonathan Hickman has been handling T'Challa incrediblely in his current New Avengers series, I hope Marvel gives him the chance to write a Black Panther solo soon. *Crosses fingers*

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Posted by Saren

@citizenbane: I would say it is actually quite the opposite Bane. From reading most of the comments here on this article, instead of seeing people labeling most of Batman's feats as PIS, I see a disgusting amount of underestimation and lack of knowledge regarding T'Challa. Now I frankly don't care if you think T'Challa is inferior to Bruce in the skill department because I really don't feel like debating that matter, I just notice you seem to make it out as if Batman has been the victim of egregious amounts of lowballing and underestimation throughout this article when largely the inverse has occurred.

Really? You think so? Smart money says if I brought up the time Batman executed a plan spanning from the dawn of time till the end of the universe to stop Darkseid from tearing reality apart and taking over the universe, or the time he manipulated Composite Superman into committing suicide, or the time he defused a bomb that was going to wipe out the solar system around it, there'd be no fewer than eight different people complaining about how Batman fanboys always bring up PIS moments in their arguments. Do the same thing for Black Panther by bringing up the Mephisto incident or the time he claimed to have a contingency in case Galactus ever attacked Wakanda, and these same people will rave about what a strategic mastermind T'Challa is. The majority of people who form these definitive opinions about how Batman would fare against <insert street leveler> and try to pass them off as unwavering fact haven't even read that much Batman beyond knowing the bare-bones stuff of his history or the stuff that's on scans in the battle forum. Batman vs Black Panther/Captain America debates tend to descend into typical patterns over time: cement every character as occupying a certain position, and ignore/dismiss all the stuff that's inconvenient to your paradigm.

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Posted by Wolverine08

@citizenbane: What you mentioned is most likely due to the tendency of Batman fanboys to always bring up aforementioned moments as reasons why he is unbeatable, and people who grow tired of their nonsense label a lot of Batman's feats as PIS. I don't support that line of thinking, but I can see how people can be lead to that. You say most of the people here who form definite opinions about these battles putting Batman against street levelers have superficial knowledge of Batman? The same can be said regarding Black Panther and the 5+ users I've noted here that say that Batman will stomp T'Challa, and how he is largely inferior to him. Overall, I was just noting how I fail to see this chucking aside of most of Batman's feats as PIS you have pointed out has occurred throughout this article.

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Posted by GraniteSoldier

@wolverine08 said:

@citizenbane: I would say it is actually quite the opposite Bane. From reading most of the comments here on this article, instead of seeing people labeling most of Batman's feats as PIS, I see a disgusting amount of underestimation and lack of knowledge regarding T'Challa. Now I frankly don't care if you think T'Challa is inferior to Bruce in the skill department because I really don't feel like debating that matter, I just notice you seem to make it out as if Batman has been the victim of egregious amounts of lowballing and underestimation throughout this article when largely the inverse has occurred.

Really? You think so? Smart money says if I brought up the time Batman executed a plan spanning from the dawn of time till the end of the universe to stop Darkseid from tearing reality apart and taking over the universe, or the time he manipulated Composite Superman into committing suicide, or the time he defused a bomb that was going to wipe out the solar system around it, there'd be no fewer than eight different people complaining about how Batman fanboys always bring up PIS moments in their arguments. Do the same thing for Black Panther by bringing up the Mephisto incident or the time he claimed to have a contingency in case Galactus ever attacked Wakanda, and these same people will rave about what a strategic mastermind T'Challa is. The majority of people who form these definitive opinions about how Batman would fare against <insert street leveler> and try to pass them off as unwavering fact haven't even read that much Batman beyond knowing the bare-bones stuff of his history or the stuff that's on scans in the battle forum. Batman vs Black Panther/Captain America debates tend to descend into typical patterns over time: cement every character as occupying a certain position, and ignore/dismiss all the stuff that's inconvenient to your paradigm.

I agree with this statement for the most part. People do have a tendency to bring up feats that may/may not be PiS for their own argumentative purposes, but disregard similar level feats for other characters as PiS when it hurts their argument. I'll admit to being as guilty of it as the next guy, we all have our moments.

But the incidents you bring up in your comment above are just a few indications why I think Bruce to be the superior strategist.

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Posted by Wolverine08
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Posted by Saren

@citizenbane: What you mentioned is most likely due to the tendency of Batman fanboys to always bring up aforementioned moments as reasons why he is unbeatable, and people who grow tired of their nonsense label a lot of Batman's feats as PIS. I don't support that line of thinking, but I can see how people can be lead to that. You say most of the people here who form definite opinions about these battles putting Batman against street levelers have superficial knowledge of Batman? The same can be said regarding Black Panther and the 5+ users I've noted here that say that Batman will stomp T'Challa, and how he is largely inferior to him. Overall, I was just noting how I fail to see this chucking aside of most of Batman's feats as PIS you have pointed out has occurred throughout this article.

5+? That's nice; I've noted about twenty users who think T'Challa would stomp Batman 10/10, including one who compared him to Batman One Million and a couple of others who think it's as simple as "Batman does not kill. Black Panther is willing to kill. So Black Panther wins", because as we all know, every assassin and mercenary Batman has ever fought has been one with the Buddha.

Go back and read through the thread if you failed to see it. You've got people claiming Batman couldn't have learned 127 martial arts because it's "not possible", that his prep feats are "overblown" and that even with prep the best he can hope for is a stalemate, and that Batman loses because most of his feats are against his own Gotham villains, whereas T'Challa's feats are usually against the likes of Doom, Kang and Ultron. Those are all more or less direct quotes, and that last one lends some hilarity to the entire discussion when the people who are arguing for Black Panther don't have any idea how Black Panther actually operates.

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