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Comic Vine Battle of the Week: Venom/Scarlet Spider vs. Luke Cage/Iron Fist

Team Spider takes on the Heroes for Hire! Which team wins? Well, that's up to YOU!

It's time for a little bit of Marvel mayhem in the segment's second team battle. In one corner, we have the Heroes for Hire, Iron Fist and Luke Cage. In the other, we have two characters connected to the Spider-Man family tree, Scarlet Spider (Kaine) and Venom (Flash Thompson). If these two teams were forced to fight under the following rules (see below for details), which side would have your support and why?

Comic Vine Battle of the Week Rules

  • Combatants are in character.
  • This is a random encounter.
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated and at night and all standard city lights remain on. Assume they start roughly 20 feet apart and visible. However, there's a fair amount of cover between them (parked vehicles and such). The entire area is on limits. This means alleys, rooftops, building interiors, etc.
  • Everyone has their standard gear.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination.

CLICK HERE TO VOTE!

Comic Viners, you have until this Friday morning (ET) to research the characters, present a case and/or dive into the debate with others and, of course, cast your vote! As always, Friday's update will include one Viner's argument for the winning character (only posts in the poll thread will be considered and they can't include scans *link above*), the staff's thoughts and if we're extra lucky, thoughts from writers, artists and others in the industry (spoiler: one writer has already provided a blurb)! Viners, it's understandable that debates over "who would win?" can get heated, but please try to keep the conversations informative and not personal.

Feel free to make future match suggestions in the comments below or via Gregg's Twitter page.

70 Comments
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Posted by Maddpanda531

"Who's gunna [fri]ck with me? I'm the scariest Nigga ever was!"- Luke Cage, Alias

Posted by ThorBoy

Team Iron Cage for the win!

Posted by Overlander

Oh no. This is going to be a landslide.

If Scarlet Spider and Venom can keep from fighting each other, they will mop the floor with the heroes for hire.

Posted by Poncho

this fight is Marvelous

Posted by Taylors005

im gonna put my money on the spiders even though i dont know a lot about the heroes for hire

Posted by greeneagle

Hmmm...while the Heroes for Hire would work better as a team....the Spider Team guys aren't slouches and have no qualms with using extreme methods. This looks like it's too close to call at first glance but Heroes for Hire win based on their experience working as a Team..6 out of 10 in favor of the Heroes for Hire

Posted by Cavemold

Really tough one but id say Hero for Hire since they work so well together.

Edited by DKing_CiCADA

This is a tough one, I feel like Iron Fist and Luke Cage might win, but we also can't forget about Venom losing control of his symbiote and Scarlet Spider can probably still turn into that spider god creature which really is unknown how strong he is at that form. Then again Iron fist's energy damaged the Phoenix force. I'm gonna say Heroes For Hire just because I'm guessing Iron Fist's energy is stronger than Scarlet Spider at his spider god form and Luke Cage's skin should resist Venom's bullets and melee.

Posted by Mega_spidey01

team heroes for hire.

Posted by RunawayAvenger

Heroes for Hire are better at working together and would destroy them.

Posted by OrphanCrippler

in character i think HfH will win this. Sooner or later Venom and Kaine will start fighting each other, even arguing about something might be the downfall for them against such a dangerous team. Iron fist is the best fighter here and also most versatile, imo, so he should have the upperhand against each of the spideys 1on1. Kaine on the other hand had a few lowlights in his book, like losing to the werewolves and overall having tough battles against low-tier competition, if he's bringing his inner demons with him to this battle, then he's the first to go down.

Edited by WaveMotionCannon

Heroes for Hire ftw. Experience working together and Danny's power should give them the edge.

Posted by Wolverine08

Wow, this is one of the toughest fights I've ever seen. I'll have to think about this one.

Online
Edited by Mellow_Hype

Heros For Hire because ebony and ivory work together in perfect harmony.

Posted by dagmar_merrill

The heroes for hire got this, Danny could easily take on either of them and Luke isn't going to go down easily at all.

Online
Posted by thenexusrebound

Kaine now having the ability to unleash the other and Venom going out would be hard to take down. I'm assuming that clearly they are teaming up and gotten beyond the initial head butting.

Posted by 8008S

HFH due to power levels (Iron Fist) and durability (Cage). That said it would be one incredible fight.

Posted by Trevel8182

Edited by _Cerberus_

Heroes for Hire ftw. Experience working together and Danny's power should give them the edge.

Posted by AlKusanagi

All in on Spiders.

Posted by Super_SoldierXII

I think folks are overestimating Danny just a tad in this match-up thinking he'll run over either Kaine or Flash. Danny has the power output to put either of the two down for the count. That goes without question. And he has the skill and combat speed to tag them as well (catching-a-bullet-out-of-the-air type combat reflexes are hard to argue against).

In addition, he has range capabilities with his Chi / Fist abilities should the Spider's take to swinging and attacking at range themselves, as well as area of effect to deal with webbing / incap. *But* (and it's a significant "but") he's a glass cannon. The question is, does he put his antagonist down before either of them smack him but once upside the head ... ? I dunno bout that one. Very debatable.

Cage should be able to tear through webbing without fault or problem (despite jobbing from time to time). He can also play tank, run much needed interference (tossing cars and the like) and provide Danny meat shield type protection. He's every bit as strong as Kaine is, and far more durable. There's not too much the Spider's can do to damage him right off the bat, and I'm not sure they have the teamwork to figure out how to before they get taken out. But he's slow in comparison. Damn slow. His job would be keeping Danny standing long enough to allow some credible offense. I think they can pull it off due to their history of working together (knowing one anothers strengths and weaknesses).

The location favors the Spiders (but not so much so as to make me cringe), while teamwork favors the Heroes for Hire duo.

All said and done, I'm giving it to Danny and Luke with a slim 5.5/10 majority win cuz there are many ways Danny can get taken out of this fight sooner rather than later if they zig when they should have zagged...

Posted by pspin

Why would you do this??? This has three of my favorite non-X-Men characters! (and Iron Fist.) I don't know who to choose...

Edited by WWAJfan

Venom and Scarlet, Flash's guerrilla tactics plus his unique methods of using his symbiote is awesome. Plus the symbiote gots a mind of his. Agent Venom on Venom mode and Scarlet Spider on the ''Other Mode'' make me think they got this

Posted by Zeeguy91

@k4tzm4n: I thought the whole point of these battles was to pit characters from different universes, who'd never meet under normal circumstances, against each other.

Posted by laflux

Fist off

LuCAS CagZZ ABLEZZZ TO slAPZZ ARounD sHe HULKz and Tankzs An NUkezz IN AgE Of ULtron. HE SOLOSZZZ

..............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

I feel that Luke Cage is the weakest player, and could beaten by of the Spider-Team, due to lack of speed and versatility. However his strength and Durability make a large amount of the Spiders attacks (Webbing, Bullets, Stingers, Acid Touch, Claws due to shape-shifting) alot less useful. Cage would be beaten down eventually by either of Team 1, but it would take a while. On the other hand, I would regard Iron Fist as probably as the MVP (though not by much), given the fact that both Flash and SS have no previous knowledge of the character. Both Kaine and Flash are not adverse to tanking damage when compared to Spider-Man due to their natural durability, healing and pain resistance, which would be disadvantageous when fighting Iron Fist. On the other-hand, by just looking at the two, Iron Fist would know that their powers are Spider-Based just by their costumes, and react accordingly.

Now others may make the assumption that Iron Fist shouldn't beat either Kaine or Venom on the basis that he hasn't beaten Spider-Man, and his conversation with the new Power Man (he did seem to forget that he wrecked through Cap, Spidey and Logan in a training simulation, but we'll that's kinda PIS :p). However, he did say he was able to hold his own, as well as keep up (and his feats are consistent with this) and all his fights against Spider-Man were before his best feats (Punching Skaar, Punching out a hellicarrier etc) and more importantly, before studying the book of the Iron Fist. And this is without taking into account Peter's more evasive nature.

I don't think that anyone is going to dispute the synergy Iron Fist and Cage has when compared to the Spiders, and while I wouldn't grant a win simply because of that, it does make a difference.

Personally I'd say the fight comes down to whether Fist can take down a non-vulked Venom/SS before Venom/Kaine can bring down Lucas. I'd go with Team Heroes for Hire given the OP conditions, but an argument can be made either way"....

Some retorts people could make in regards to team Heroes for Hire and responses

Kaine and Flash has higher physical stats than Peter, who Iron Fist has always struggled against.

As for the Speed arguement, I will concede that Danny probably can't keep up his speed as long as the Spider-Team, but even so, we've seen quickly cream his vibranuim suit, while he was mind-controlled, which was Pre studying from the Book of the Iron Fist. We've seen him show enough speed to at least keep with Peter Parker in previous fights. We've even seen him beat Peter, Cap and Logan in a training simulation (while the result is probably false), he still was keeping up his speed (he was mind-controlled there too), and it was Pre Book of the Iron Fist. And his level of Speed is such that he's nonchalantly caught a sniper rifle bullet, and caught bullets from Cap's Pistol (strong enough to put ares on his a$$), and then thrown them back. Combined with the fact that Kaine isn't as evasive as Peter, and doesn't have the SS (which is what Iron Fist pointed out to Power Man in particular when giving advice which would later prove useful- and the reason why he hadn't beaten Peter before), is enough for Danny to keep up along as he's done with Peter. Especially since Kaine has outright lamented how having a SS is useful in combat multiple times.

Flash for me doesn't seem to have that many impressive Speed Feats when compared to Spider-Man. He was weakened against Kraven, with poison, but did seem to struggle to keep up with him. Peter Likewise was cut by a poison knife in Grim Hunt, and still was too Fast for Kraven. Maybe I'm low-balling here, but I've always seen a Non-Vulked Flash as being comparable to Peter in strength, with greater durability, less speed, but with greater versatility (due to shape-shifting and what not).

Danny needs to Charge his punches for them to Damage the Spiders sufficiently.

As for Danny needing to charge his punches, that's something that's largely restricted to his classic feats, or when targeting very big/durable objects. Danny has Charged up his punches against Skaar, The Hellicarrier, and the Train full of explosives to give examples. However those things are alot more durable than Kaine and Venom are, and are countered by Iron Fist Blitzing through BP's Vibranuim armor, casually downing Mister X with a Chi enhanced pressure point, Punching through Spider-Man chest, so fast he couldn't react in the training simulation- even if we say Spider-Man could have reacted (which is I believe), that still requires no real charging up. He's also punched someone's face off, while being drastically weakened at a moments notice.

If Flash Vulks out, he can manhandle Luke Cage

A Vulked out Flash can become a liability. In this state he's more likely to attack Kaine, as he did the first time they met, and while he gains alot of strength and durability, he also loses out on more nifty tricks that may help him get an edge (Shape-shifting, Gunfire- assuming he has standard gear, tendrils). Furthermore, he speed and reflexes reduce by a significant degree as Kaine was speed-blitzing him with punches, and Taskmaster was able to easily outmaneuver him using Spider-Man's move-set. Against someone like Iron Fist, who is not only quick, but has the output to lay him out quickly. Furthermore, if even if Flash does gain a physical edge over Cage, I think that due to Cage durability the fact that he would be more able to keep up, would mean that I don't think the fight would be that much shorter.

Incap

Rand can power through webbing, and Cage has enough feats to show he is more than capable of ripping through decent amounts of the stuff. Classic Luke Cage once fought Spider-Man (so he was weaker than he is now), and when Peter webbed him up, even he acknowledged Cage could free himself. Furthermore, neither Flash or Kaine utilize incap as much as Peter did.

Iron Fist is a Glass Cannon

Danny's Durability is definitely a weak link (which is I think it comes down to who can hit who), but it would be implausible for Danny to slice through a giants leg with his hands, without a significant degree of Superhuman durability. He also was taking a beating from Fat Cobra (who is explicitly stated to have Super-Strength at the level of 5 tons in his bio) that he can amp using chi to levels where he is literally disintegrating Ninja's with Thunderclaps, and creating fissures in the ground by jumping. And Iron Fist wasn't 100 Percent during this time.

(May update depending on future arguments)

Edited by LordRequiem

Luke Cage has been overpowered as of late. The Spiders have both the speed edge and the ferocity the heroes lack, plus once Kaine turns into that spider monster and takes his second form the game is over for both the losers for hire. I'm siding with the Spiders, simply because Luke Cage is quite possibly the worst and most annoying, one dimensional "hero" ever. He's neither cool nor funny, nor interesting.

Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

Heroes for Hire due to their teamwork.

Posted by GraniteSoldier

This is going to be fun, I'm going to start writing my argument later.

Posted by WWAJfan

either way if Agent Venom is in really deep trouble he got his Hail Mary symbiote possession, ex. when he fought the Anti Venom n when Tasky has that Abyss crown.

Posted by laabitres

venom and scarlett all day

Posted by Rexorr

Prob Iron Fist and Luke Cage cause once they get a hand on the spiders, they smash.

Posted by tuckboarder

Kaine and Flash, they have that pure animal rage that will put them on top, because they are willing to kill,and the other two aren't that violent

Posted by tjx_penn

while the heroes for hire have more experience fighting together, they are close range fighters. kaine and flash are both mid range and close range in addition to there speed and reflexes. the only difficult part i could see for them is inflicing enough damage to luke cage. but yea spiders for the win

Posted by Mangakid1995

I am a huge fan of the Spiders, I recently got caught up on Scarlet Spider and Venom unfortunately I was using Marvel Unlimited so I'm not 100% up to date, iv read up on the 2 up till Marvel NOW! However my knowledge of The HFH is limited to events and the first 24 issues of the Heroic Age New Avengers. So with that in mind can someone please point me towards a book or story line I can read to get a better sense of how the Heroes for Hire fair without a team of avengers at they're back, so that I might make a more educated decision and provide a more eloquent argument for the Spiders?

Posted by marvelman2099

make it interesting instead of generic

Posted by BlackPan1her

Iron Cage. More experience together, and Luke Cage is had to knock out, Iron Fist offers perfect counter support. If this was not a fist fight and more long range, I'd go Spiders. Spider team also has obvious air/locomotion advantage.

Posted by Perfect 10

cage and fist all the way

p.s. totally random but i so want a series called cage and fist. im such a genius, get on that movie

Posted by KingSolomon

didn't luke cage beat spider-man all by himself? I could of swore those two went at it and there was nothing peter could do to hurt him?

Edited by TheTrueBarryAllen

I originally posted this on the voting page, but figured it should actually go here on the article page since I see more debating going on here.

I'm going with the Heroes for Hire on this one and am actually in a bit of shock in the difference of votes between the two.

To my knowledge Agent Venom has all of the weaknesses that every symbiote has. These being Fire & Sonics.

Now I know that Luke & Danny won't be running around with any sonic screams, but Danny can harness the power of fire with one of his Iron Fist techniques, that'll I show below.

The Hell's Unfurling Hurricane Technique allows Rand to attack with fists of fire, as we see in the scan it also shoots a burst of flame around him 360 degrees catching anyone near him on fire. Due to Agent Venom's weakness to fire I think this would be his downfall, especially if Kaine & Venom attack at the same time, they're both getting a wave of fire shot towards them.

While Agent Venom is dealing with the Fire it'd most likely slow him down a tad, allowing Luke Cake to give him a good ol' fashioned beatdown. Deranged Midget mentioned earlier that Kaine doesn't work well with anyone so his chemistry with Agent Venom wouldn't be top notch compared to Luke Cage & Iron Fist, one of the best duo's ( in my opinion ) in comic's history.

Kaine shouldn't be much of a problem for Iron Fist & Luke Cage to take down if they don't have to worry about Agent Venom. Luke's durability is intense, it takes adamantium to pierce his skin so he can take punches if Kaine get's in close. Iron Fist's speed has allowed him to tango with Spiderman on more than one occasion, so Kaine shouldn't give him too much trouble.

Rand's fist also has some other impressive feats & his combat ability is incredible.

Ground Pound destroys an entire stone temple.
Demonstration of the famous 'Fastball Special' commonly used by Luke Cage & Iron Fist. It's accurate and deadly.
The incredibly popular Helicarrier scan in which Iron Fist is able to destroy the Helicarrier with a single punch.
The Nuke-Train durability feat.
Taking out 88 S.H.I.E.L.D Agents by himself.

In the end, I think that Iron Fist & Cage have the teamwork abilities and Techniques to take down the Spider Team.

Kaine & Venom's lack of teamwork potential has them at a massive disadvantage, and when going against a team like Luke & Danny you've got to have some incredible teamwork. They may have better stats in terms of strength but I feel that their chemistry in combat would be too weak to create any sort of crippling blow to the Heroes for Hire.

So yeah, that's my opinion.

Online
Posted by Airmansmith21

listen luke cage and iron fist are badass, but not scarlet spider and M'fin Venom badass two best books in marvel right now and they are gonna destroy the heroes for hire.

Posted by evilvegeta74

I remember yrs ago Danny/Iron Fist memerized the Hulk from the glowing of his hands causing him to calm down and change back to Banner. I'm sure Iron fist could possible cause some sort of vibration or sound using his chi to disrupt the symbiote long enough to defeat it . Luke is the man, and although I like Kane, Luke doesn't play and he's gonna take Kane down the hard way

Edited by bunkerbuster05

I originally posted this on the voting page, but figured it should actually go here on the article page since I see more debating going on here.

I'm going with the Heroes for Hire on this one and am actually in a bit of shock in the difference of votes between the two.

To my knowledge Agent Venom has all of the weaknesses that every symbiote has. These being Fire & Sonics.

Now I know that Luke & Danny won't be running around with any sonic screams, but Danny can harness the power of fire with one of his Iron Fist techniques, that'll I show below.

The Hell's Unfurling Hurricane Technique allows Rand to attack with fists of fire, as we see in the scan it also shoots a burst of flame around him 360 degrees catching anyone near him on fire. Due to Agent Venom's weakness to fire I think this would be his downfall, especially if Kaine & Venom attack at the same time, they're both getting a wave of fire shot towards them.

While Agent Venom is dealing with the Fire it'd most likely slow him down a tad, allowing Luke Cake to give him a good ol' fashioned beatdown. Deranged Midget mentioned earlier that Kaine doesn't work well with anyone so his chemistry with Agent Venom wouldn't be top notch compared to Luke Cage & Iron Fist, one of the best duo's ( in my opinion ) in comic's history.

Kaine shouldn't be much of a problem for Iron Fist & Luke Cage to take down if they don't have to worry about Agent Venom. Luke's durability is intense, it takes adamantium to pierce his skin so he can take punches if Kaine get's in close. Iron Fist's speed has allowed him to tango with Spiderman on more than one occasion, so Kaine shouldn't give him too much trouble.

Rand's fist also has some other impressive feats & his combat ability is incredible.

Ground Pound destroys an entire stone temple.
Demonstration of the famous 'Fastball Special' commonly used by Luke Cage & Iron Fist. It's accurate and deadly.
The incredibly popular Helicarrier scan in which Iron Fist is able to destroy the Helicarrier with a single punch.
The Nuke-Train durability feat.
Taking out 88 S.H.I.E.L.D Agents by himself.

In the end, I think that Iron Fist & Cage have the teamwork abilities and Techniques to take down the Spider Team.

Kaine & Venom's lack of teamwork potential has them at a massive disadvantage, and when going against a team like Luke & Danny you've got to have some incredible teamwork. They may have better stats in terms of strength but I feel that their chemistry in combat would be too weak to create any sort of crippling blow to the Heroes for Hire.

So yeah, that's my opinion.

...Yeah, what he said! :P

But really, great points man! I was siding with the Heroes myself, but you cemented it for me. I think Danny and Luke's teamwork and friendship will greatly benefit them here.

Posted by TheTrueBarryAllen

@bunkerbuster05: I'm glad my post was able to do something for someone :)

Online
Posted by InnerVenom123

Venom and Scarlet.

Posted by Vincie_Pooh

Scarlet Spider & Agent Venom.

Edited by Baberaham_Lincoln

IRON FIST FISTS' THE SHIT OUT OF THEM

Posted by GodDamnIronMan

Does HFH has any speed feats shown to be able to tag Kaine???

Spider team has speed, only IF has shown comparable speed feat.

this should be on spider team flavor.

Posted by atrumi

Another big bomb on the Kaine Venom team is that if they inflict enough trauma on venom. The symbiote will rage out and start attacking everyone. You may ask "Who is Venoms favorite, most bestest, super fun time person for him to rage out on?" Well that would be spidey! The second a raged out venom notices Kaine swinging around he will flip and attack him.

That was just a back up plan. I still feel HFH (more specifically IF) have enough feats to take down these two.

Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus

Cage/Fist for the win I say.

Posted by Jaydarocknrolla

Luke Cage could solo here. he's indestructible and too much stronger. eventually je'll get ahold of one of them and put him out of comission

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