Comic Vine News

67 Comments

Comic Vine Battle of the Week Results: Green Arrow vs. Punisher

When all the arrows and bullets have been used, who's left standing? Come see who the CV community thinks would win this fight!

Oliver Queen: a man who's incredibly skilled with a bow, has a plethora of trick arrows and a whole lot of talent. Frank Castle: a dude who can endure an absurd amount of pain, is beyond talented with firearms and has no problem fighting dirty. No matter who walks away from this one, it's sure to be epic. The winner will likely be in need of a band-aid or two, that's for sure.

Would Oliver's accuracy and trick arrows keep Marvel's brutal anti-hero down for the count, or would Frank overcome the archer? Voting and debate was open all week and result is clear: the Comic Vine community sides with Punisher in this brawl. 54% think Castle has what it takes to win, while 38% think DC's hero will triumph. A mere 7% think it's just too close to call, meaning they basically have an equal shot at winning.

No Caption Provided

It's easy to root for the Emerald Archer based on how excellent his current run is (thanks to Jeff Lemire/Andrea Sorrentino/Marcelo Maiolo), but in the end, the majority has a hefty amount of logic and reason on their side. There's no denying the combination of Oliver's accuracy and trick arrows is a huge wild card and he certainly has plenty of experience dealing with gunmen. One solid use of a trick arrow absolutely holds the potential to pave the way to victory, but Frank's combination of incredible pain tolerance (an arrow to the thigh, shoulder, wrist or even abdomen won't slow him down that much), skill (both armed and unarmed) and tactics should let him win after a good battle.

Frank has the accuracy and means to pose a threat at a distance and the combination of his sharp mind and pain tolerance should allow him to eventually close the gap. It's unlikely he'll go for fatal shots since he can tell he's possibly fighting a fellow hero, but even when holding back, Frank possess the skill and tenacity to be just as effective while going non-lethal. His shots could be used to manipulate Ollie's movements in combat and he knows where to tag if he doesn't want to end his enemy's life. If it comes down to close range -- which is definitely probable in this scenario -- Ollie can give him hell (especially with proper use of an electric arrow or other trick arrows in close proximity), but Frank's ruthless close combat methods and more than formidable degree of skill should allow him to overcome, even if he takes numerous arrows and hits in the process. It should be a spectacular battle, but ultimately, Frank does indeed have what it takes to earn a small majority.

Viner Argument of the Week for Punisher is by specialmonkey7

"The Punisher, hands down. It would be an amazing fight with bullets and arrows peppering the air. Blood would flow on both ends but when it really comes down to it; Ollie Queen doesn't have the fire in his heart that Frank Castle does. Sure, he has the spirit, he has the drive to do good but Frank Castle is a machine at this point. He is the angel of death and his mission is the destruction of crime in general and he can't let anything stand in his way. Though he wouldn't kill Ollie, Frank would make sure that he stayed down before it was over. Ollie knows arrows, Frank knows almost everything else AND arrows...."

No Caption Provided

Corey Schroeder, Comic Vine writer

"If they weren't both aware of each other at the outset, I'd say Punisher had this locked up easily. Since they start out facing each other, it seems likely they'd fire at almost the same instant, but Ollie's thinking two steps ahead and fired his arrow down the barrel of Frank's rifle causing the triggering mechanism to break. Another arrow impacts Castle's chest, but his body armor takes most of it as he quickly realizes he can't win this fight at a distance and charges forward.

Ollie slams his bow across Castle's head, but the spec ops soldier has had worse hangovers than this headache and closes the remaining distance. Now it's where Queen doesn't want to be, he's in a place where his trick arrows can't help him AND he's outmatched in terms of his close combat skills. After taking a couple of solid hits to the jaw and abdomen, it becomes clear he's not winning this fight, so he takes the one arrow out that might save him and detonates it. A cloud of smoke fills the area and Ollie flees into the cityscape, but Castle's right behind him, only losing him for a few minutes. Long enough for Ollie to set up a decoy and lie in wait, catching his breath and waiting for his moment.

The flash of a skull is all he needs to see before firing an incendiary arrow, lighting up the empty vest as Castle wraps a massive arm around Ollie's neck. "Didn't work for Charlie. Doesn't work for you," is the last thing he hears before losing consciousness."

Ladies and gentlemen, there's no teaser image because next week will be an all-new BATMAN BATTLE OF THE MONTH (throws e-confetti)! Who will the Dark Knight square off against next? Thor? Stilt-Man? Carl Grimes? Check the homepage on Monday to find out!

Previous 'Comic Vine Battle of the Week' results

Want to suggest a Battle of the Week? Feel free to comment below or send it to Gregg via Twitter. It doesn't have to be Marvel or DC!

67 Comments

Avatar image for theboxingcannabyte
theboxingcannabyte

13

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@lvenger: Naw, gotta disagree with you. 616 Frank has feats like actually tagging Spider-Man and FOOLING Spidey's spidey-sense, and hitting him with a non-lethal round. (which he'd be using on Ollie, more than likely), can you imagine Ollie being able to tag Spidey? Hawkeye is as good as Oliver Queen, no doubt. They have equal feats and both have hit speedsters in their day. But Spidey is faster than any arrow can travel and has his spider-sense. Frank was able to tag him with a modified .9mm or .45, wotjpit getting too nerdy and going into the physics that's a minimum of 2x the speed of your average arrow, even modified bows, presuming they have uber-bows that can get arrows up to 500 fps or whatever, you're still dealing with 800 fps minimum for a .45 and 900-1300 fps for a 9mm from a pistol.

Anyway, the fact that Frank tagged Spidey and then was able to kick him across the face and nearly KO him says something about Frank's ability's and his power. He also took on Bullseye when Bullseye was nearly 30 years younger (this was MAX Frank, though not the Ennis MaX Frank which I think would have done slightly better than Jason Aaron's version who went too nuts in the end, imo, Ennis's castle was spooky in how much he had his madnes and need-to-kill intact, Barracuda being the only one to come close to pushing him besides Bullseye who went Joker on his ass)-Anyway, he had a crushed right hand and a fucked up left hand and still managed to take Bullseye, after that he lost a finger, a pinky or the finger next to it....After Bullseye was hospitalized and put in a coma by Frank and Frank was transportated to prison he managed to escape, after having a grenade go off in his cell with nothing but bed padding to protect himself, blowing out one of his eardrums (remember he's 66 years old, in spite being in tip-top condition, he has arthritis and there's a scene where this doctor is actually going over all of his injuries...in spite of this he still somehow manages to fight and be faster and do some real Bullet-Time-y feats against a dozen or so men at a speed that surpasses a 55 year old Batman in The Dark Knight Returns for the most part. He also takes on in h2h a prime Elektra and Wilsion Fisk, and kills both)

So an old Frank Castle with virtually no time to heal-up between fights took on a top assassin that was his physical-equal (but younger, basically he was drawn to look like Frank would've looked 20 years prior, more muscular and bigger, Frank being more wrinkled, slightly smaller, etc.) The Menonite, who broke Frank's hands and his ribs. Frank then killed Bullseye, took a 2-story fall on that one, then grenade in prison, kills a crapload of people during all of this, then while sleeping like a hobo and living off of jerky and using whatever guns and clothing he can find, he takes on Wilson Fisk and Elektra.

The Punisher can go through things that few people can, I only imagine how dangerous Frank would be with a super-soldier serum in him (imo they should go that or a bionic-transhumanist route with him so they can retain the Vietnam storyline without him being 70 in 5 years in the comics. I think he should stop aging at 65-ish, he'd be a lot like Nick Fury, not too old, enough experience to fight Captain American and actually win, which bot hcharacters have, in fact Punisher has deflected Cap's shield with an M-16 before in his early appearances). Him having powers before has been a problem but the times he's had a super-soldier-y thing either from a serum or a suit he's done really well.


Anyway...I just don'e see Oliver doing well against Punisher, h2h-wise they are about equal, each could possibly take Batman on THEIR best day and when Batman is slightly off his game. That kind of thing, each have impressive feats against superior opponents, Punisher had to have the entire Avengers come after him before, he's killed the Marvel Universe and then fought a cannibalized-psycho pseudo-zombified Marvel U (Marvel Universe VS The Punisher, not Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe, two different "What Ifs?" :P)

Deathstroke, Batman and Damian Wayne (as an adult) are guys I could see doing something like that, maybe even Nightwing or Jason todd, in an "Elseworld" type of thing. As far as humans or peak-humans or low-level metas/superhumans/super-soldiers. Wolverine, Spider-Man, Daredevil, Black Panther, Iron Man, hell there's quite a few you could imagine pulling that off (Daken, for sure), in their own ways, going bad or fighting evil versions of other heroes, etc. You never think "Hawkeye or Oliver Queen" (though some might put Bullseye in that list but that's because he's a psychotic killer-badass)

speaking of, how would Bullseye do against Oliver Queen? I'll have to look that battle up on here, I'm sure it's been done.

Avatar image for darkseid_prime
Darkseid_Prime

247

Forum Posts

533

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

@iceman_x said:

Arrow is the man, but didn't see him winning this one. Punisher is a psycho.

Technically, he's not a psychopath. A psychopath wouldn't restrain from killing another hero like Frank does. Frank is equivalent to a soldier killing enemy forces, except Frank is a one-man-army fighting high-end criminals. So by your logic every soldier is a psychopath? Not really.

Avatar image for shalomzy159
shalomzy159

38

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Which is faster in a bullet and an arrow? Uh, lemme guess. A BULLET. By the way, frank is more dan skilled dat he does not need to go close to fight. He could simply snipe queens head.

And it ends there

Avatar image for superboyprimema
SuperBoyPrimeMa

19

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Seeing and knowing that guns are more lethal than a bow an arrow then the Punisher would probably win against Green Arrow. However there is not much said or written that I have seen, heard or read about Punisher that would make him a smart opponent against Green Arrow. As apparent Punisher only uses guns but Green Arrow has arrows for strategic uses. So with that said I would say that Green Arrow would win against the Punisher. They are both great characters or Heroes and even if Green Arrow is a weaker character in comparison to the Punisher I would still select Green Arrow as the better Hero.

Avatar image for patrat18
patrat18

11753

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

@mia26 said:

How much would an arrow to the face that pentrates through his head slow him down ?

LoL not at all.

Avatar image for jwalser3
jwalser3

6131

Forum Posts

2559

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

Wow, i can think of many better argument of the week.

Avatar image for mia26
Mia26

145

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

How much would an arrow to the face that pentrates through his head slow him down ?

Avatar image for _genesis_
_Genesis_

328

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By _Genesis_

Haunt vs spider-man something new

Avatar image for multipleman
MultipleMan

265

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Arrow is the man, but didn't see him winning this one. Punisher is a psycho.

Avatar image for k4tzm4n
k4tzm4n

41857

Forum Posts

9127

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 1

Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator
Avatar image for ace20xd6
ace20xd6

273

Forum Posts

26

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

@k4tzm4n: I can tell you used paint in your other ones, and I didn't even notice the rain until you mentioned it. The blending though on Oliver's image was done really well, keep up the good work. :)

Avatar image for k4tzm4n
k4tzm4n

41857

Forum Posts

9127

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 1

Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@ace20xd6 said:

Well I have to say, this is one of their better photoshops for these battles.

Why thank you! I wish it wasn't raining in Ollie's image, but I thought it was a great match.

Also, I use Microsoft Paint for all of my images :D

Avatar image for k4tzm4n
k4tzm4n

41857

Forum Posts

9127

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 1

Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@nickzambuto said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@turel_hash_ak_gik said:

@k4tzm4n: i know. just wanted to add some humour.

I hear ya, but it was a good opportunity to express my thoughts on it. A surprising amount of arguments essentially banked on "bullets > arrows!"

But assuming Arrow and Punisher have the same amount of skill, it should boil down to the fact that Frank can dodge arrows a lot easier than Oliver can dodge bullets (even trick arrows), so weaponry does factor in.

Except some of those arrows are explosive. Others are electric. Others can incapacitate him in place. So on and so on. Saying "bullets > arrows!" is vastly underestimating the factors, ESPECIALLY when the man with bullets is VERY unlikely to go for the kill. Hell, in my eyes, Punisher doesn't even win "because he has a gun," he wins because he has the means to get close and from there, has what it takes to win in a close combat battle. That outcome seems far more probable than victory via bullets at a distance based on their mindsets.

Avatar image for ace20xd6
ace20xd6

273

Forum Posts

26

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

Well I have to say, this is one of their better photoshops for these battles.

Avatar image for nickzambuto
nickzambuto

29288

Forum Posts

5083

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@k4tzm4n said:

@turel_hash_ak_gik said:

@k4tzm4n: i know. just wanted to add some humour.

I hear ya, but it was a good opportunity to express my thoughts on it. A surprising amount of arguments essentially banked on "bullets > arrows!"

But assuming Arrow and Punisher have the same amount of skill, it should boil down to the fact that Frank can dodge arrows a lot easier than Oliver can dodge bullets (even trick arrows), so weaponry does factor in.

Avatar image for mezmero
Mezmero

1005

Forum Posts

532

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

Edited By Mezmero

I voted for Ollie but I agree with this result. I figured Punisher would hold back on a fellow costumed crusader but we've recently seen him deal with some of the strongest Avengers by his lonesome without killing them. He has even subdued some of the top Marvel acrobats like Spider-Man and the Daredevil. Ollie's slick but his athletics can't compare to those levels. I felt Green Arrow's experience against foes with firearms gave him the edge but I can accept that Frank Castle is too efficient a combatant for Ollie to trick with arrows. Pretty neat battle this week. Next Batman fight better be Moon Knight or Joseph Joestar.

Avatar image for iron_turtle
Iron_Turtle

590

Forum Posts

13

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@pokeysteve:

I'm basing this off of my personal experience with modern body armour issued in theatre to British and US troops. Of which I've had the pleasure of wearing for a number of years.

Most modern body armour is a combination of synthetic weaves, and metal, ceramic, or poly plates.

The people that designed body armour quickly realised that in theatre, that a synthetic weave alone was not enough to stop shrapnel flying at high velocity from nearly explosions, certain types of ammunition, or as you have stated, knives and other bladed or pointed articles. This has pretty much been the standard minimum requirement of all combat body armour since the 90's.

Now, if the punisher can get his hands on the high end assault weaponry and tech that he uses. It only stands to reason that he can at the very least get hold of standard military issue body armour which is mass produced and distributed by the thousands.

Avatar image for immortalone
ImmortalOne

4064

Forum Posts

262

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Edited By ImmortalOne

I really can't take the argument of the week seriously.

Ollie doesn't have the fire in his heart? Frank is a machine? An angel of death? I mean, come on.

Avatar image for wilbertus
Wilbertus

535

Forum Posts

5655

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

This was a great matchup. I love Green Arrow, but I think Punisher deserved the win here.

Avatar image for praetor_fenix
Praetor_fenix

227

Forum Posts

14

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 1

When bad comes to worse, it's not important if you are the stronger or the fastest, the thoughest one wins. And i really can't think of many normal humans tougher than Frank, Batman, and maybe (and it's a BIG maybe) Moon Knight.

Avatar image for decoyelite
DecoyElite

4021

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 36

User Lists: 2

Edited By DecoyElite

@zadoulo said:

Wow...what happened to the boxing glove arrow? That arrow can really knock a person out cold.

Yeah never underestimate the boxing glove arrow, just ask The Key.

Avatar image for zadoulo
Zadoulo

110

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Wow...what happened to the boxing glove arrow? That arrow can really knock a person out cold.

Avatar image for Pokeysteve
Pokeysteve

12042

Forum Posts

21613

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 0

@pokeysteve:

Modern standard issue body armour with ceramic/metal/poly plates absolutely would stop an arrow. And the some.

That armor is designed to stop bullets. Not arrows. Most won't stop knives.

Avatar image for turoksonofstone
turoksonofstone

15045

Forum Posts

279813

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 18

User Lists: 24

Edited By turoksonofstone

If this is new 52 Green Arrow I guess the outcome is OK Some earlier versions of Green Arrow could take Punisher IMO. Great Stuff.

Avatar image for k4tzm4n
k4tzm4n

41857

Forum Posts

9127

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 1

Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@noahmcnasty said:

@k4tzm4n so 16 percent difference means it could go either way. hmmm. we get it you like green arrow

What are you talking about? I sided with Punisher. If you're using the results to imply it doesn't have the potential to be close, then you're vastly underestimating Green Arrow. I'll never use the poll results to justify my own opinion, either. For example, Deathstroke took a big lead over Ultimate Cap, but that hardly means it's not a good fight which also holds the potential to go either way. Hell, Nightcrawler WRECKED Gambit in the votes and that's something I certainly don't agree with. And for the record, personal preference doesn't mean jack in these when forming my opinions. If they did, the DBAW of TMNT, Gambit and Deadpool would have looked VERY different.

Avatar image for iron_turtle
Iron_Turtle

590

Forum Posts

13

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@pokeysteve:

Modern standard issue body armour with ceramic/metal/poly plates absolutely would stop an arrow. And the some.

Avatar image for cheesesticks
CheeseSticks

2867

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@cheesesticks said:

@super_soldierxii: Agree, but saying that the Punisher win because ''Ollie Queen doesn't have the fire in his heart '' is complete BS.

Yeah ... it's a bit ... shall we say ... Cheesy? :P

Exactly ahah

Avatar image for ultrastarkiller
ULTRAstarkiller

9129

Forum Posts

234

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 18

Edited By ULTRAstarkiller

Batman vs Cable I hope

Avatar image for super_soldierxii
Super_SoldierXII

7664

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@super_soldierxii: Agree, but saying that the Punisher win because ''Ollie Queen doesn't have the fire in his heart '' is complete BS.

Yeah ... it's a bit ... shall we say ... Cheesy? :P

Avatar image for cheesesticks
CheeseSticks

2867

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By CheeseSticks

@super_soldierxii: Agree, but saying that the Punisher win because ''Ollie Queen doesn't have the fire in his heart '' is complete BS.

Avatar image for noahmcnasty
NoahMcnasty

43

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@k4tzm4n so 16 percent difference means it could go either way. hmmm. we get it you like green arrow

Avatar image for super_soldierxii
Super_SoldierXII

7664

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@k4tzm4n said:

@cheesesticks said:

Wow, i can think of many better argument of the week.

Been highlighting a lot of essays recently and thought I'd give some love to a post which is simple and straight to the point. Plus, a lot of the more elaborate posts included points which I disagreed with or apparently didn't read what gear the characters had.

I'm ok with that, it's just that there was plenty of post with feats and argument and the one you choose was only a post saying that Punisher has more hearth and he know guns AND arrow.

I thought it was a fun, quirky rundown scenario - which is refreshing. More so than our common & popularly used essay type recounts, replete with showings and feats as to why character A) beats character B).

Of itself, this more common type of argument isn't terrible ... but it's fun to break the mold and read someone arguing the merits of a battle scenario creatively like that.

Avatar image for cheesesticks
CheeseSticks

2867

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@k4tzm4n said:

@cheesesticks said:

Wow, i can think of many better argument of the week.

Been highlighting a lot of essays recently and thought I'd give some love to a post which is simple and straight to the point. Plus, a lot of the more elaborate posts included points which I disagreed with or apparently didn't read what gear the characters had.

I'm ok with that, it's just that there was plenty of post with feats and argument and the one you choose was only a post saying that Punisher has more hearth and he know guns AND arrow.

Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Avatar image for crazyscarecrow
CrazyScarecrow

2312

Forum Posts

50197

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 19

User Lists: 27

Seems to be a typo. Green Arrow should've been the winner.

Avatar image for tommyjones1945
TommyJones1945

751

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Pfft, whatevs.

Avatar image for risingbean
RisingBean

10000

Forum Posts

23

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By RisingBean

Definitely could see it happening this way. Then again, I could see Ollie pulling out a win too. Frank is one mean S.O.B. though.

Avatar image for Pokeysteve
Pokeysteve

12042

Forum Posts

21613

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 0

Edited By Pokeysteve

LOL @ corey's scenario. Arrow's aren't fitting down the barrel of a gun and I don't think bullet proof vests will stop an arrow!

The argument of the week (while nicely written) includes zero facts that would actually sway a battle hahaha.

Avatar image for k4tzm4n
k4tzm4n

41857

Forum Posts

9127

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 1

Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@wade_wilson22 said:

Wow this is an odd fight. Odd pairing. They don't have themes to their fights like on: Marvel DC Forum Fight Clubs

Dude, you gotta stop spamming your webpage. If you have an article you're sharing from it, sure, that works. But every comment? No.

Avatar image for wade_wilson22
wade_wilson22

75

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By wade_wilson22

Wow this is an odd fight. Odd pairing. They don't have themes to their fights like on: Marvel DC Forum Fight Clubs

Avatar image for kcvic
kcvic

50

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By kcvic

@k4tzm4n: batman vs Carl grimes ...lol..I'd go with Carl just cause ...Damian Wayne vs Carl would be better

Avatar image for evilpenguin543
EvilPenguin543

188

Forum Posts

413

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

Batman vs. Stilt-Man: MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Avatar image for lvenger
Lvenger

36475

Forum Posts

899

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 50

User Lists: 18

@k4tzm4n: You're right, that fight would have been posted out of context to support Ollie winning. And it was fun to speculate as I waited for a convincing argument to turn me but with this fight, I see Ollie losing it mostly.

  • 67 results
  • 1
  • 2