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Comic Vine Battle of the Week: Movie Black Widow vs. TV Green Arrow

The skilled spy takes on the accurate archer! Who's left standing? Well, that's up to you!

Last week we had our first tie, and this week we have our first battle between live action versions of characters! Both combatants can completely humiliate numerous gunmen by their lonesome, have displayed solid hand-to-hand abilities and have superb agility. But what would happen if they were forced to battle one another? Who would win if Scarlett Johansson's Black Widow took on Stephen Amell's Green Arrow?

Before this madness kicks off, there's a key thing or two I'd like to address (since I've seen the argument used many times):

"BLACK WIDOW BEAT DA HAWKEYE SO SHE BEATZ DA GREEN ARROW!"

She beat "da mind controlled Hawkeye" and, if my memory serves me right, Nick Fury even implied Clint was holding back because he shot him in the kevlar vest and not in the head. But more importantly, she beat him in a rather confined space and in close proximity. The scenario here is far different. Now, this is by no means attempting to discredit her feat. Dodging Clint's arrow is certainly impressive and worthy of noting regardless of the factors, but that statement alone hardly justifies a majority. Oh, and it shouldn't need to be said, but just because she survived a hit from the Hulk doesn't mean anything less won't hurt her -- don't be silly.

And on the other side of things: while Arrow has plenty of awesome accuracy feats, the dude has indeed missed at times, too. Given Natasha's agility and skill, I think this could prove to be very interesting. Even if you think the winner is obvious, I hope the battle is at least fun to think about.

Viners, leave the terrible one-liners at the door and bring your A game to this debate! Think a character clearly takes it? Elaborate, be reasonable and you just may be picked for the next "Viner Argument of the Week!" And that alone is worth over 9,000 internet points, right?

EXPLOSIONS VS. SADNESS

Comic Vine Battle of the Week Rules

  • Combatants are in character (both sides think the other is a villain).
  • This is a random encounter.
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated and at night. Assume they start roughly 50 feet apart and visible. There's a fair amount of cover between them.
  • All characters have standard gear (for Black Widow, this includes everything she used in Iron Man 2 and Marvel's The Avengers).
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination.

CLICK HERE TO VOTE!!!

Voting will remain open until NEXT MONDAY MORNING (ET). Why Monday instead of the usual Friday? It's because we'll be swamped at SDCC later this week! Please keep in mind voting remains open for awhile you can research the characters and read the debates presented for both sides. I know it's easy to vote for the side you like more, but please try to have adequate information on both characters before casting your vote.

Monday's update will include one Viner's argument for the winning team (only posts in the poll thread will be considered *link above*), the staff's thoughts and if we're extra lucky, thoughts from writers, artists and others in the industry! Viners, it's understandable that debates over "who would win?" can get heated, but please try to keep the conversations informative and not personal.

Feel free to make future match suggestions in the comments below or via Gregg's Twitter page.

97 Comments
  • 97 results
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Posted by slade_wilson

@themanintheshoe: the sense your statement makes is less than or equal to zero.

Posted by Cyclops4President

Arrow all the way hands down. 10/10 times he wins this fight.

Posted by YoungJustice

@the_stegman: Your logic is broken, just because Natasha doesn't have a TV show means that she can't do it regularly?

Posted by Floopay

hahahaha come on this is no contest widow wins! for one she has tons and tons of experience over CW's Oli

also wouldnt you think since she works with an archer she'd have a top ten ways to own an archer?

You know, that second statement makes a lot of sense actually.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Online
Posted by Kellz

4. His physical stats are far superior to Natasha’s. As a man he is physically stronger than her...

Careful... your misogyny is showing. It's cute how you TRY to make a 'Fair' comparison of the two characters, yet your comparison CLEARLY shows your bias.

Posted by Jgames

GA becauae he can dodge bullet easily and have shown to be handle multiple henchman in h2h easily, so close combat and long range GA have while Black widow only have h2h and have not shown impressive feats with gun.

Posted by Wolverine08

@kellz:

It's not misogyny. 9/10 men are stronger than women. It's just the difference in between the way men and women's bodies are designed.

Online
Posted by johnny_blaze

I can never take these battle threads seriously, too many biased opinions on here. I'm going with Arrow. Black Widow's feats in the movies are barely impressive.

Edited by The Stegman

@kellz said:
@the_stegman said:

4. His physical stats are far superior to Natasha’s. As a man he is physically stronger than her...

Careful... your misogyny is showing. It's cute how you TRY to make a 'Fair' comparison of the two characters, yet your comparison CLEARLY shows your bias.

Oh come off it, there's nothing misogynistic about it. He's a full grown healthy man, she's a full grown healthy female, men are physically stronger than women, that's a fact. There is nothing biased about my comment.

@the_stegman: Your logic is broken, just because Natasha doesn't have a TV show means that she can't do it regularly?

That's not what I meant, I meant since Oliver has a tv show, he has more combat feats since he fights every week as opposed to the handful of times we've seen Natasha fight, that's all I meant.

Posted by JamDamage

Green Arrow is gonna get about 7% of the vote tops. BW wins all day long. Even movie Black Widow wins.

Edited by YoungJustice

@the_stegman: Ah, I see. Just seemed like you were trying to downgrade Natasha due to her not having the week to week basis feats.

Posted by Awesomecris88
Posted by patrat18

I can never take these battle threads seriously, too many biased opinions on here. I'm going with Arrow. Black Widow's feats in the movies are barely impressive.

so true

Posted by Shadowsnake89

I think Arrow can take this fight. since it starts at about fifty feet he can easily utilize his various archery skills to keep Widow at a distance. Even though She can pin him similarly with her pistols he has been shown able to defeat several opponents armed with automatic weapons as well as the skills of Deadshot even with his wrist mounted automatic pistols, taking a shot from around a pillar long enough to put one through the assassin's eye.

In hand to hand I have seen Widows very advanced skills, though Arrow is able to hold his own in that respect. He has defeated several men in closed quarters simultaneously and engaged and defeated assassin China White in single combat. He also received training from Slade Wilson during his time on the island. While he may not be on Black Widows level in that respect he is more prepared for this type of situation than Hawkeye. If Natasha does get in close I think it would be an even fight.

Posted by Raiden1106

Dude the contest is not even set, Black Widow wins simply by virtue of the fact that Avengers rules with an iron fist and Arrow eats ass from an ass whilst riding an ass

Edited by johnny_blaze

Dude the contest is not even set, Black Widow wins simply by virtue of the fact that Avengers rules with an iron fist and Arrow eats ass from an ass whilst riding an ass

*sighs*

Posted by arw1985

I think it's too close to call. Both characters have been known to kick buttloads of booty in their respective shows/movies.

Edited by ChadwickDavis

While Arrow is undoubtedly a force to be reckoned with at close, mid, and long range, I ultimately have to give the victory to:
Black Widow.

Granted Arrow has shown himself to be an unprecedented survivalist, strategist and combatant, he is (in my opinion) too inexperienced, naive, and too indecisive to beat Black Widow. Malcolm Merlin said it best during their second to last confrontation "Make up your mind!".
Black Widow is
more focused
more experienced against a larger variety of villains (superhuman or otherwise)
and (at the risk of coming across as being sexist) she is a woman (Which has been Oliver's weakness in every incarnation of his character and one Black Widow is fully prepared to exploit to her advantage).

All in all Black Widow Brings more depth to this fight, and while Arrow is formidable to say the least he is still far to inexperienced and has too many vices (women, ego, one track mind) for him to be able to beat her in a confrontation without Diggle's or Felicity's help.

Posted by Shazam78

Based on what I've seen Arrow do in the show(from watching the first half of season one) I'd give a slight edge to him. But as stated BW is familiar with dealing with another archer. If this were comic BW and GA I would go with BW but it's not. TV Ollie has been through alot physically and mentally.

Posted by Ace20XD6

Does it ever say in the Avengers and Iron Man 2 how long Black Widow trained?

Posted by TAneT62

Black Widow wins.

Better feats, better H2H skills, very quick and agile, and more impressive.

Posted by csguterres

@batmark_ said:

And for anyone who brings up the Hawkeye vs Black Widow fight from The Avengers, remember, Clint was holding back, and the fight took place in close quarters where he couldn't get a proper shot off, it's hardly a fair comparison.

Actually, Natasha was holding back. She didn't want to kill Clint. And delivering a fatal blow is realistic much more easier than fighting trying not to kill your opponent.

Posted by Ostyo

This match is lame.

Stephen stomps the untalented wannabe actress.

Edited by weaponx

One of the easiest choices I've had to make. Arrow.

Posted by Ama_Sama

It's obvious this battle is gonna be heavily biased from the beginning due to people

A. Not watching Arrow, thus being ignorant to Oliver's skills

or

B. Not liking Arrow and picking Widow simply because they like her better.

The truth is, Oliver has her outclassed in almost every category.

Let’s go over Black Widow’s feats shall we? She:

1. Took down some nameless, fodder guards in Iron Man 2

2. Took down more fodder mobsters in Avengers while tied up (Something Ollie also does in the early episodes)

3. Beat Clint Barton, though since they were fighting in an enclosed location, he was at the disadvantage as he couldn’t fully extend his bow to fire arrows accurately. I’m bringing this up because I know others will compare this fight to say that since Natasha beat Clint, she could beat Ollie.

4. Took on the Chitari who had no real feats to show that they were physical superior to humans besides jumping from their ships to the sides of buildings (maybe a twelve foot leap I’d say)

And really that’s it. Now Ollie:

1. Like Natasha, he beats nameless fodder thugs, only he does it on a weekly basis. He has even beaten people while being at a disadvantage, as in “Vertigo” he was heavily drugged yet managed to take down a stairwell full of guards with little difficulty.

2. Unlike Natasha, who fights mostly fodder characters with the exception of Clint, Ollie routinely fights people who are well trained in martial arts, whether it was his training with Slade on the island, or him fighting and eventually beating China White, Helena Bertinelli and Malcolm Merlyn upon later encounters.

3. He is arguably more acrobatic than her as he regularly uses parkour and free jumping to get from location to location. He also dodges bullets with ease, even from someone who is a master marksman like Deadshot.

4. His physical stats are far superior to Natasha’s. As a man he is physically stronger than her and spends most of his days training his body to increase his strength. For Stamina, he once chased down Helena Bertinelli on foot while she was riding a motorcycle and almost caught her if not for a truck blocking his path at the last minute.

5. His long distance weapons, aka, his archery skills are more impressive than Natasha’s. He has been shown to be a great archer, hardly ever missing his target, even when drugged, injured or moving. His accuracy doesn’t end with arrows either, as he was shown to be able to kill someone by simply throwing a kitchen knife. He also regularly uses Flechettes as darts to otherwise disarm or incapacitate people he doesn’t want dead with great accuracy.

Ollie wins.

Very valid points on both sides. I think that on a point of technicality, Ollie does win this one.

Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf

Natasha took a hit from the Hulk :P

So she's definitely tanking everything Ollie has.

(This post was meant to be sarcastic, so keep the flaming to a minimum).

Posted by MonsterStomp

Black Widow doesn't have many feats to go on. All we know is that she is super athletic, can fight for long periods of time and can take multiple foes at once. She has shock gauntlets, and two side arms.

Arrow takes this. I've been watching the show on and off for a while and just from what I've seen, he takes her with minimal struggle.

Posted by Avilon

@kellz: I think he his just talking about biology, which biologically speaking if you compare men to women they are stronger physically. look at the Olympics. But physicals aren't going to be every thing because this fight could stay at ranged combat.

Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus

Seems like a draw to me!

Posted by Raw_Material

This one's a close call..gonna have to think about this one. Hmm....

Posted by MachineGunMajor

Green Arrow!

Posted by beatboks1

@k4tzm4n: Totally love this weeks fight man.

Gotta say for me this is a very close one.

The feats of Ollie in the ep where he freed his step dad the safe house where he was being held by Merlin's goons very much mirrored Widows hallway fight in IM2. Same level of Skill same result against similar type of protagonist ( if anything Ollie's adversaries should have been slightly more skilled than the rent-a-cops widow took down but that's pure speculation on my part).

I've seen the whole "she has better gear more firepower" argument played out so far. Honestly if that's the best you guy's have it's really a bit lackluster. Her firepower and gear is no better than what Floyde Lawton (Deadshot) had in the series and certainly doesn't trump a god damn rocket launcher used by Fyres on the island.

What really tips it for me is the fight alongside the Avengers in NY. Not the so much the actual level of skill shown ( which was by no means wanting let me tell you) but more because her more than anywhere else Widow was shown facing MUCH greater odds than those faced by Ollie on screen thus far. Was the skill of those numbers high? Not really, but they were armored and had superior weapons

Widow in a well fought battle IMO

Posted by Dbogan67theman

The Widow...and she's hot and very very sexy with the booty. lol.

Posted by The Stegman

Some of these comments make me lose faith in Comicvine

Posted by Veshark

PSSSSH OBVIOUSLY EXPLOSIONS>SADNESS.

In all seriousness, don't watch Arrow, so I'm waiting for the best arguments from both sides. Seems more people are banking for Widow, interestingly enough...

Posted by doombot890

@ace20xd6: no it isnt but it goes as a given. If you are working for an organisation such as SHIELD you'd have some pretty great training. to think otherwise is sort of idiotic.

also in her own words she has "a lot of red in her ledger" which can be seen as her hit list. the amount of kills she has under her belt.

I really don't understand why people would give this to Oli he's an Inexperienced Batman-lite who needs help from a lot of people to make it through the day.

Posted by The_Red_Viper

It's obvious this battle is gonna be heavily biased from the beginning due to people

A. Not watching Arrow, thus being ignorant to Oliver's skills

or

B. Not liking Arrow and picking Widow simply because they like her better.

The truth is, Oliver has her outclassed in almost every category.

Let’s go over Black Widow’s feats shall we? She:

1. Took down some nameless, fodder guards in Iron Man 2

2. Took down more fodder mobsters in Avengers while tied up (Something Ollie also does in the early episodes)

3. Beat Clint Barton, though since they were fighting in an enclosed location, he was at the disadvantage as he couldn’t fully extend his bow to fire arrows accurately. I’m bringing this up because I know others will compare this fight to say that since Natasha beat Clint, she could beat Ollie.

4. Took on the Chitari who had no real feats to show that they were physical superior to humans besides jumping from their ships to the sides of buildings (maybe a twelve foot leap I’d say)

And really that’s it. Now Ollie:

1. Like Natasha, he beats nameless fodder thugs, only he does it on a weekly basis. He has even beaten people while being at a disadvantage, as in “Vertigo” he was heavily drugged yet managed to take down a stairwell full of guards with little difficulty.

2. Unlike Natasha, who fights mostly fodder characters with the exception of Clint, Ollie routinely fights people who are well trained in martial arts, whether it was his training with Slade on the island, or him fighting and eventually beating China White, Helena Bertinelli and Malcolm Merlyn upon later encounters.

3. He is arguably more acrobatic than her as he regularly uses parkour and free jumping to get from location to location. He also dodges bullets with ease, even from someone who is a master marksman like Deadshot.

4. His physical stats are far superior to Natasha’s. As a man he is physically stronger than her and spends most of his days training his body to increase his strength. For Stamina, he once chased down Helena Bertinelli on foot while she was riding a motorcycle and almost caught her if not for a truck blocking his path at the last minute.

5. His long distance weapons, aka, his archery skills are more impressive than Natasha’s. He has been shown to be a great archer, hardly ever missing his target, even when drugged, injured or moving. His accuracy doesn’t end with arrows either, as he was shown to be able to kill someone by simply throwing a kitchen knife. He also regularly uses Flechettes as darts to otherwise disarm or incapacitate people he doesn’t want dead with great accuracy.

Ollie wins.

qft

Edited by Herx

I'm going to have to go to go with Natasha on this one. Sure we''ve seen oliver take on some tough trained opponents in the show, and as far as we know at the moment has had some training with deathstroke (remember it has only been the first series so only a fraction of information regarding his island training has been revealed at the moment). But window has had way more than 5 years of training on her side, having been recruited by an intelligence agency (possibly Russian) since she was a child (as mentioned in the India banner scene). Thus she's experienced, ala remember Budapest, plus she's been trained to use her entire body weight in a fight, which can take down Oliver at his peek (as though he's strong he doesn't seem to put all of his weight into a fight, or at least there's no mention of it). Plus Natasha is a fully battle trained ready Shield operative and she can keep her cool in a fight, unlike Oliver on some occasions. + she's partnered with Hawkeye (whoms ass she did kick while hd was under Lokind's controle) so she'd know how to fightml a skilled/expert archer who is alsomskilled at hand to hand combat.

Sure we may have seen Oliver take on more guys in his 23 houses of screen time compared to Natasha 4 (the benefits of a tv show character going against a film character) but o really do think Natasha has this one. she's more analytical than Oliver (hence why she catches people off guard) she'd play the situation so thAt Oliver thinks he's got her on he run, pulling him into a hand to hand fight on her terms. Oliver has been caught off his guard in the show, Natasha hasn't.

Plus let's not forget one huge factor to here, she escaped a rampaging hulk in a confined hellicarrier. thats got to count cor something.

Posted by Sammo21

Well, I can tell you this: Black Widow actually trained and learned how to fight opposed to Arrow's "vigilante" learning how to properly shoot a bow and arrow in about five minutes after correctly learning how to breath. :p Black Widow is also possible still a victim of the Red Room ("red in her ledger"?) so she has beyond normal stamina, strength, and agility. Not to mention she is a master of multiple fighting styles, weapons, and she has no qualms against killing. Not to mention the backup Widow could call would decimate the vigilante and all his allies if needed. Clint Barton gets called in and the vigilante is done :) If this were movie Hawkeye vs Vigilante this fight would be even more one sided against the vigilante.

Edited by tchalla3000

Black Widow would win. Yes, they both have years of experience, but what really swayed my opinion was the fact that Ollie couldn't beat a man who only trained one year in Nanda Parbat. If a man with only a year of non-stop combat training can beat a man who spent 5 non-stop years surviving on an island, than Black Widow has this. Not only is she a combat expert, but I'm pretty sure she has spent more than 5 years doing survival training. Ollie is outclassed in this.

Edited by IcePrince_X

Black Widow...one thing I observed about her character in the movie is she is very calculating and highly intelligent. She will move along in a situation if it means to get closer to the opponent before she applies her sting. Remember she was able to play the god of mischief.... her gadgets can affect ollie's weapon as well. Skill wise...i don't think ollie has met a character at her level. He may even fall for her

Posted by entropy_aegis

Black Widow...one thing I observed about her character in the movie is she is very calculating and highly intelligent. She will move along in a situation if it means to get closer to the opponent before she applies her sting. Remember she was able to play the god of mischief.... her gadgets can affect ollie's weapon as well. Skill wise...i don't think ollie has met a character at her level. He may even fall for her

The God of mischief sucked,Loki was a useless villain,he was an insult to villainy. Ollie has met far more skilled people than her,the only skilled person she's fought is Hawkeye. Ollie has Deadshot and Merlyn as well as many others,he's not gonna fall for her either.She isn't that pretty nor is she seductive.

Posted by Ace20XD6

@doombot890 said:

@ace20xd6: no it isnt but it goes as a given. If you are working for an organisation such as SHIELD you'd have some pretty great training. to think otherwise is sort of idiotic.

also in her own words she has "a lot of red in her ledger" which can be seen as her hit list. the amount of kills she has under her belt.

I really don't understand why people would give this to Oli he's an Inexperienced Batman-lite who needs help from a lot of people to make it through the day.

Thanks, since she only costarred in two movies it seems really hard to show her feats compared to a whole 20 something episodes of Oliver. Oh and he didn't need or used any help in defeating Deadshot.

Posted by jakester217

Get ready for a battle of epic proportions! DC vs. Marvel, the tournament to see! Watch as your favorite heroes (and some villians) fight it out and climb their way to the top. Who will win, gaining the title as the most powerful being in both universes, and which universe will walk away a loser? Come right here to my blog, and vote for the champion! Today: Round 1, Part 3

Posted by doombot890
Edited by doombot890

@iceprince_x said:

Black Widow...one thing I observed about her character in the movie is she is very calculating and highly intelligent. She will move along in a situation if it means to get closer to the opponent before she applies her sting. Remember she was able to play the god of mischief.... her gadgets can affect ollie's weapon as well. Skill wise...i don't think ollie has met a character at her level. He may even fall for her

The God of mischief sucked,Loki was a useless villain,he was an insult to villainy. Ollie has met far more skilled people than her,the only skilled person she's fought is Hawkeye. Ollie has Deadshot and Merlyn as well as many others,he's not gonna fall for her either.She isn't that pretty nor is she seductive.

how about her helping defeat an alien Invasion with superior weaponry......

I find it very silly that since its only seen that she has faced 2 people of note, who i might add are a higher class of than the sort that ollie faces, that she is inferior. Whether you view Loki's portrayal in the movie was poor doesn't discount the fact she beat a fucking GOD at his own game!

also it is implied that she has faced numerous oppositions in her life "a lot of red in her ledger" and the fact she is a top SHIELD black ops operative. the character and movie take a lot from the Ultimate universe characters and in that she was one of the best.

oh did I mention she managed to escape "a Hulk"

DOOM OUT!

Posted by capamerica7

@millennium:

  • All characters have standard gear (for Black Widow, this includes everything she used in Iron Man 2 andMarvel's The Avengers).