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Comic Book Question of the Week Results: Does the Change in 'Avengers 2' Matter?

We know the Avengers sequel will be an origin story for Ultron, but it won't include Hank Pym. Do you care or are you cool with this? Find out what the CV community thinks!

Changes from the source material to the big screen aren't exactly something new. Sometimes they're small and reasonable alterations to powers, relationships or origin stories. Other times, they're more like "Deadpool/Weapon XI," and make fans question why the character is even used if they're going to undergo massive changes. A sequel to The Avengers is still quite some time away, but a few short blurbs from director Joss Whedon have already begun a fairly heated debate.

This movie will be all about the villain Ultron, but its creator, Hank Pym, won't be in the movie. Naturally, this is a pretty polarizing aspect of the film (despite still only knowing the bare basics) and we wanted to see how everyone here at Comic Vine was reacting to it. The poll was pretty evenly divided, but a narrow majority says they have faith in how Joss Whedon will handle the plot.

  • No, I have faith in Joss Whedon and he'll make it work: 37%
  • Yes, it's a big change and I'm not exactly happy about it: 35%
  • It's too early to tell. Let's wait and see: 27%

Honestly, I'm siding with the 37%. As for the "Why not just include Hank Pym? How hard would that be?" comments, keep in mind we have NO idea what the plans are for Pym over in Edgar Wright's Ant-Man (a film expected to come out after Avengers: Age of Ultron). For all we know, that could be a serious reason why Whedon isn't using the character in his team-up film. Additionally, Whedon has consistently proven to be a talented director/writer, so I'm fairly sure that when we are hit with a huge change, I won't want to flip a table. Then again, I've always thought changes from the panel to the big screen are totally understandable if pulled off well -- and when it comes to Whedon's abilities, I do indeed have faith. Avengers: Age of Ultron is set to come out in the summer of 2015, so this debate certainly won't be over any time soon.

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Posted by ULTRAstarkiller

Jarvis equals Ultron lmao

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

Not everything Whedon has done has been good

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Edited by The Stegman

I was on the "wait and see" side

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Posted by tomchu

How is Ultron going to be remotely related to the Thanos reveal at the end of the film? Marvel Science and Marvel Cosmic are two... different, different worlds.

Posted by fodigg

I don't think it matters to Ultron or to the Avengers, I think it does change Hank Pym. However, they could fairly easily replace that aspect of Pym's character by 1) having him accidentally invent some other horrible atrocity of science, or 2) play up his other moral failings.

Because remember, according to most modern writers Hank Pym is only three things: the inventor of Ultron, the guy who backhanded Wasp across the room, and a snappy dresser.

Posted by sasquatch888

first you cant mention that scarlet witch and quicksilver are magnetos daughter and son and aren't going to be mentioned as mutants (i know its because of the fox agreement ) and now ultron is created without Hank Pym ???...I love Whedon and everyone is going to see Avengers2 no matter what but thought the whole reason marvel studios was created was to avoid compromising the properties and quality by doing the movies themselves ...cant hank pym be a regular scientist in the movie without powers yet. I don't see the advantage of taking pym out of the story altogether. Pym wasn't in the first movie even though hes an original avenger and now by taking him out of the second film i feel like they're really minimizing and diminishing the character. its funny I feel like marvel Used age of ultron the comic to show how important Pym is to the marvel universe ,,,but in the new film of the same name ( i know its a different story with the same name) pyms not even in it ...with the upcoming ant-man movie it just seems like a no brainer to connect pym to ultron ....I'm a purist so it bothers me ...an ultron origin without pym just seems so wrong on so many levels. Everyone is going to see Avengers2 no matter what but i think alot of people care who read comics and have for decades ...it sucks when you go see a superhero movie and they change the history just to appease the masses ...I think pym could be in the movie ...even if he created the ultron A.I with stark that would be good enough. Its just a cheap cop out to exclude him altogether and it waters down the whole essence of who ultron is... but seriously marvel could make Santa clause and papa smurf the villains and make a billion on this. I found it odd that loki was leading an alien army and physically attacking new york so boldly ( not his style at all) ( he's usually the devil on your shoulder manipulator type , enhancing people and sending them to fight his battles like when Carl "Crusher" Creel was a boxer and jailed criminal who becomes the Absorbing Man when he drinks a liquid which loki laced with rare Asgardian ingredients and sent him after thor or how he manipulated and re-powered the hood in siege and dark reign) but hey nobody complained. so i guess excluding pym from ultron's origin is acceptable now ...its a small thing that can have huge repercussions on marvel lore going forward. It just sets a bad precedent...

Posted by kriminal

what if ultron comes from the future? Ant man shouldn't eve be getting a solo film in my opinion.

Posted by Trevel8182

Great can't wait for Iron Man to create his version of Ultron for the 2016 Marvel event and in Avengers Assemble season 2 Tony creates Ultron what happens in the movie's effects everything else it's a big deal and as a Hank Pym fan I going to be very sad and I'm disappointed on how you feel Gregg.

Posted by theTimeStreamer
Posted by Trevel8182
Posted by MrMazz

What if the Ant-Man in Ant-Man isn't Hank Pym but is instead that Erick O'Grady guy or whomever the new ant man is?

I just want to know why they are subtitling it Age of Ultron. Perhaps as an easy way to get around markets like the UK where they ahd to change the name due to that older Avengers TV show and film? What does Age of Ultron even MEAN when you aren't doing the plot the title comes from? Not saying I want an Age of Ultron film because yea that comic run was bad but still.

Edited by Jonny_Anonymous
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Posted by Xwraith

@tomchu: Thanos is going to be in Guardians and the third Avengers movie.

Edited by ArtisticNeedham

Ultron and Hank Pym are essential to each other. I don't mind he Pym isn't Ant Man/Giant Man/Yellow Jacket yet in the film, or if he is an Avenger yet, or if he actively fights Ultron to help the Avnegers. I just want him to create Ultron, see the evil Ultron causes, blame himself, and have a small hand in stopping Ultron. Thats all. I have always wanted to see the Ultron/Pym story in the Avengers movies and I'll be sad to see it not used.

I'll still see the film, and hope its good and have faith, but to me it seems like taking Uncle Ben out of the picture or Bruce Wayne's parent's murders. Ultron is a major part of Pym and Pym, to me, is a major part of Ultron.

Posted by GodDamnIronMan

@mrmazz said:

What if the Ant-Man in Ant-Man isn't Hank Pym but is instead that Erick O'Grady guy or whomever the new ant man is?

I just want to know why they are subtitling it Age of Ultron. Perhaps as an easy way to get around markets like the UK where they ahd to change the name due to that older Avengers TV show and film? What does Age of Ultron even MEAN when you aren't doing the plot the title comes from? Not saying I want an Age of Ultron film because yea that comic run was bad but still.

Actually, Edgar Wright had confirmed it's Hank Pym....

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

@mrmazz said:

What if the Ant-Man in Ant-Man isn't Hank Pym but is instead that Erick O'Grady guy or whomever the new ant man is?

I just want to know why they are subtitling it Age of Ultron. Perhaps as an easy way to get around markets like the UK where they ahd to change the name due to that older Avengers TV show and film? What does Age of Ultron even MEAN when you aren't doing the plot the title comes from? Not saying I want an Age of Ultron film because yea that comic run was bad but still.

Actually, Edgar Wright had confirmed it's Hank Pym....

No he said he was in Ant Man but not that he was Ant Man

Online
Posted by k4tzm4n

Dollhouse, Cabin in the Woods, Runaways

Man, I loved Cabin in the Woods, but to each their own. Also, he didn't direct that and he only co-wrote it. Dollhouse was alright. I enjoyed it and it had some standout episodes, but overall I didn't love it or anything.

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

@k4tzm4n said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

Dollhouse, Cabin in the Woods, Runaways

Man, I loved Cabin in the Woods, but to each their own. Also, he didn't direct that and he only co-wrote it. Dollhouse was alright. I enjoyed it and it had some standout episodes, but overall I didn't love it or anything.

Argh I hate Cabin in the Woods with a fiery passion that knows no bounds, it's the worst horror film I'v ever seen, it's like the spiritual successor to Scary Movie or something..

Online
Edited by k4tzm4n

@k4tzm4n said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

Dollhouse, Cabin in the Woods, Runaways

Man, I loved Cabin in the Woods, but to each their own. Also, he didn't direct that and he only co-wrote it. Dollhouse was alright. I enjoyed it and it had some standout episodes, but overall I didn't love it or anything.

Argh I hate Cabin in the Woods with a fiery passion that knows no bounds, it's the worst horror film I'v ever seen, it's like the spiritual successor to Scary Movie or something..

I understand if you have your reasons for loathing it, but the worst horror movie you've ever seen? In a genre packed with laughably terrible movies, I find that hard to believe :P

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

@k4tzm4n said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

Dollhouse, Cabin in the Woods, Runaways

Man, I loved Cabin in the Woods, but to each their own. Also, he didn't direct that and he only co-wrote it. Dollhouse was alright. I enjoyed it and it had some standout episodes, but overall I didn't love it or anything.

Argh I hate Cabin in the Woods with a fiery passion that knows no bounds, it's the worst horror film I'v ever seen, it's like the spiritual successor to Scary Movie or something..

I understand if you have your reasons for loathing it, but the worst horror movie you've ever seen? In a genre packed with laughably terrible movies, I find that hard to believe :P

Yea but I'm a HUGE fan of horror b-movies (the old ones anyway) the ones that are so bad they are good but CitW is just bad and unfunny

Online
Edited by k4tzm4n

@k4tzm4n said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

Dollhouse, Cabin in the Woods, Runaways

Man, I loved Cabin in the Woods, but to each their own. Also, he didn't direct that and he only co-wrote it. Dollhouse was alright. I enjoyed it and it had some standout episodes, but overall I didn't love it or anything.

Argh I hate Cabin in the Woods with a fiery passion that knows no bounds, it's the worst horror film I'v ever seen, it's like the spiritual successor to Scary Movie or something..

I understand if you have your reasons for loathing it, but the worst horror movie you've ever seen? In a genre packed with laughably terrible movies, I find that hard to believe :P

Yea but I'm a HUGE fan of horror b-movies (the old ones anyway) the ones that are so bad they are good but CitW is just bad and unfunny

So, to you, Cabin in the Woods is worse than Troll 2?

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

@k4tzm4n said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

Dollhouse, Cabin in the Woods, Runaways

Man, I loved Cabin in the Woods, but to each their own. Also, he didn't direct that and he only co-wrote it. Dollhouse was alright. I enjoyed it and it had some standout episodes, but overall I didn't love it or anything.

Argh I hate Cabin in the Woods with a fiery passion that knows no bounds, it's the worst horror film I'v ever seen, it's like the spiritual successor to Scary Movie or something..

I understand if you have your reasons for loathing it, but the worst horror movie you've ever seen? In a genre packed with laughably terrible movies, I find that hard to believe :P

Yea but I'm a HUGE fan of horror b-movies (the old ones anyway) the ones that are so bad they are good but CitW is just bad and unfunny

So, to you, Cabin in the Woods is worse than Troll 2?

I admit the only film I'v ever watched about troll's is Trollhunter

Online
Posted by GodDamnIronMan

@goddamnironman said:

@mrmazz said:

What if the Ant-Man in Ant-Man isn't Hank Pym but is instead that Erick O'Grady guy or whomever the new ant man is?

I just want to know why they are subtitling it Age of Ultron. Perhaps as an easy way to get around markets like the UK where they ahd to change the name due to that older Avengers TV show and film? What does Age of Ultron even MEAN when you aren't doing the plot the title comes from? Not saying I want an Age of Ultron film because yea that comic run was bad but still.

Actually, Edgar Wright had confirmed it's Hank Pym....

No he said he was in Ant Man but not that he was Ant Man

So they just want to keep screwing the whole source? Anyhow, I just want to see Hank Pym creates Ultron and redeem himself....

Edited by sasquatch888

@kriminal said:

what if ultron comes from the future? Ant man shouldn't eve be getting a solo film in my opinion.

what is hank pym creates ultron in the future after avengers 2 ... and ultron comes from the future like the terminator and after the avengers defeat ultron they look for hank pym trying to stop him from creating ultron. Then at the end of the ant-man movie pym gets recruited to the avengers by fury to stop him from creating the ultron a.i. and just to keep an eye on pym and his experiments ...only to find out he already created the ultron a.i. ...what if the ant-man movie is ultrons origin story ..most people think of time in terms of a linear sense ...but what if whedon added a time travel element to the avengers sequel ...its very possible....i could see ultron in some early form as the main antagonist in an ant-man movie ...while im not happy that pym isnt going to be in avengers two i am keeping an open mind and hope because @kriminal opened me up to the possibilities of a time travel factor ,,,,and considering what i just read in age of ultron the comic time travel is a definite possibility for ultron. ....but most likely its just a cheap compromise just to center everything around tony stark and to not complicate the story with too many superheroes because of the belief that the general non comic reading audience is too dumb to comprehend a complicated plot. what about the comic fans that supported these properties for decades loyally before these billion dollar movies were in existence ...im happy i get to see these movies in my lifetime but if theyre watered down its really a dissapointment ...x-men 3 .ironman2 , catwoman , daredevil the list goes on ....lets see what happens

Posted by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg

Great can't wait for Iron Man to create his version of Ultron for the 2016 Marvel event and in Avengers Assemble season 2 Tony creates Ultron what happens in the movie's effects everything else it's a big deal and as a Hank Pym fan I going to be very sad and I'm disappointed on how you feel Gregg.

Sad, but true.

Ultron and Hank Pym are essential to each other. I don't mind he Pym isn't Ant Man/Giant Man/Yellow Jacket yet in the film, or if he is an Avenger yet, or if he actively fights Ultron to help the Avnegers. I just want him to create Ultron, see the evil Ultron causes, blame himself, and have a small hand in stopping Ultron. Thats all. I have always wanted to see the Ultron/Pym story in the Avengers movies and I'll be sad to see it not used.

I'll still see the film, and hope its good and have faith, but to me it seems like taking Uncle Ben out of the picture or Bruce Wayne's parent's murders. Ultron is a major part of Pym and Pym, to me, is a major part of Ultron.

If you take Ultron away from Antman, all you leave him with is being a wife beater.

Edited by Lvenger

I still think we need to wait and see what Whedon has in store.

Edited by ptigrusmagus

If Hank Pym does not create the Ultron in the movies that really is a shame and a totally uncalled for change. No matter the story or director there's no need to exclude Pym like that. The creative thing to do would be create a new baddie but that's not happening but there is also no need to get LAZY!

Posted by AmazingWebHead

First Iron Man 3, now this. I'm starting to lose my faith in Marvel studios.

Ultron and Hank Pym are essential to each other. I don't mind he Pym isn't Ant Man/Giant Man/Yellow Jacket yet in the film, or if he is an Avenger yet, or if he actively fights Ultron to help the Avnegers. I just want him to create Ultron, see the evil Ultron causes, blame himself, and have a small hand in stopping Ultron. Thats all. I have always wanted to see the Ultron/Pym story in the Avengers movies and I'll be sad to see it not used.

I'll still see the film, and hope its good and have faith, but to me it seems like taking Uncle Ben out of the picture or Bruce Wayne's parent's murders. Ultron is a major part of Pym and Pym, to me, is a major part of Ultron.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Edited by sasquatch888

@kriminal said:

what if ultron comes from the future? Ant man shouldn't eve be getting a solo film in my opinion.

what is hank pym creates ultron in the future after avengers 2 ... and ultron comes from the future like the terminator and after the avengers defeat ultron they look for hank pym trying to stop him from creating ultron. Then at the end of the ant-man movie pym gets recruited to the avengers by fury to stop him from creating the ultron a.i. and just to keep an eye on pym and his experiments ...only to find out he already created the ultron a.i. ...what if the ant-man movie is ultrons origin story ..most people think of time in terms of a linear sense ...but what if whedon added a time travel element to the avengers sequel ...its very possible....i could see ultron in some early form as the main antagonist in an ant-man movie ...while im not happy that pym isnt going to be in avengers two i am keeping an open mind and hope because @kriminal opened me up to the possibilities of a time travel factor ,,,,and considering what i just read in age of ultron the comic time travel is a definite possibility for ultron. ....but most likely its just a cheap compromise just to center everything around tony stark and to not complicate the story with too many superheroes because of the belief that the general non comic reading audience is too dumb to comprehend a complicated plot. what about the comic fans that supported these properties for decades loyally before these billion dollar movies were in existence ...im happy i get to see these movies in my lifetime but if theyre watered down its really a dissapointment ...x-men 3 .ironman2 , catwoman , daredevil the list goes on ....lets see what happens

what if ultrons from the future ?,,,Ant man shouldn't eve be getting a solo film in your opinion but since an antman movie has been confirmed how about tying it all in?

Edited by FalcomAdol

And Earth's Scientist Supreme, unless that changed in the last couple years since Siege (I'm still catching up on modern Marvel)

Ant man film: but WHICH Ant Man? Scott Lang would make a nice self-contained story. Irredeemable probably doesn't make sense as a stand alone character, but you could bring him in if you did Civil War as a nod to fans.

@fodigg said:

I don't think it matters to Ultron or to the Avengers, I think it does change Hank Pym. However, they could fairly easily replace that aspect of Pym's character by 1) having him accidentally invent some other horrible atrocity of science, or 2) play up his other moral failings.

Because remember, according to most modern writers Hank Pym is only three things: the inventor of Ultron, the guy who backhanded Wasp across the room, and a snappy dresser.

Posted by sasquatch888

its just a cheap compromise just to center everything around tony stark and to not complicate the story with too many superheroes because of the belief that the general non comic reading audience is too dumb to comprehend a complicated plot. what about the comic fans that supported these properties for decades loyally before these billion dollar movies were in existence ...im happy i get to see these movies in my lifetime but if theyre watered down its really a dissapointment ...x-men 3 .ironman2 , catwoman , daredevil the list goes on ....lets see what happens

Posted by Onemoreposter

I think, the biggest obstacle Joss has to over come, is figuring out how to bring the Kirby dots inside Ultron's mouth to the big screen :P

Posted by tigerkaya

@artisticneedham: Very well said. With Stark creating Ultron it would just feel like as soon as Ultron turns evil Stark would just shrug it off with a "My bad guys, sorry." Such a disappointing choice.

Posted by fodigg

And Earth's Scientist Supreme, unless that changed in the last couple years since Siege (I'm still catching up on modern Marvel)

They never really did anything with it. It was supposed to lead to a conflict with the Scientist Supreme that leads AIM but puttered out.

Edited by American_Flag

With so many good Avengers stories to pull from...why "Age of Ultron".?

Posted by Dingle_Fairy

@tomchu: I think Thanos will be in GoG, my first reaction when I heard Ultron was going to be in Avengers 2 was similair to yours, but me and a friend sat down and talked about ti and figured Thanos would probably play a part in GoG.

Edited by SoA

i am proud to be a part of that 37%

Posted by dbatdog

With so many good Avengers stories to pull from...why "Age of Ultron".?

Good question.

Probably to make Iron Man/Robert Downey have a more prominent role.

Posted by MadeinBangladesh

I'm siding with the 27% .... not gonna judge it.

Posted by Cyborg6971

I'm not happy about this at all.

Edited by Solomonwreath

I feel like if he were to add Pym, he would be best suited for the creator of Ultron but beyond that it would be a more he worked with Tony to create it and when everything hits the fan Iron Man is back in action to save the day. Not a I created this so get me my spandex kind of situation. but yeah let's wait and see.

Posted by Angelo2113

The story could be about Ultron coming from an apocalyptic future where the Earth is ruined because of a war between the Avengers and a Titan. (Which would set a perfect foresight with Avengers 3 with Thanos.) Ultron comes from the future to destroy the Avengers before the war because it feels they, as well as all of humanity, are too dangerous, sure of themselves, and out of control. Ultron, knowing all of the their weaknesses, takes the Avengers out in the first part of the movie. This leads to Avengers bringing in Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch into their roster.

It's easy to put personal depth in all of that with each character questioning whether they're doing what's right for the world, not just one character like Tony Stark.

The after credits scene, Tony Stark looks through Ultron's programming and discovers that a man named Hank Pym creates Ultron and confronts him. Pym, haunted by this revelation of what he potentially brought upon the world, decides to perfect Ultron into Vision in the Ant-Man movie. This would set up the perfect foundation to have the general audience interested in Hank Pym's character.

Also, to those who believe that other than creating Ultron, Hank Pym is just a wife beater, you honestly don't know sh*t about his character so get off the bandwagon and actually learn the history of the character before you say anything.

Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus

I'm sure it will be just fine, but still, this is one of those kinda things that can either go good or bad, so its best just to wait and see. I'm pretty sure I'll love it one way or another.

Posted by DarklyDreamingDeadpool
Posted by LarfleezePT

its funny I feel like marvel Used age of ultron the comic to show how important Pym is to the marvel universe ,,,but in the new film of the same name ( i know its a different story with the same name) pyms not even in it

Posted by Miss_Garrick

I want the Vision, I want the Wasp, I want Scott Lang to show up in the Marvel Universe. I don't want Hank Pym to ever show up, I have faith that Mr. Whedon will think of something.

Posted by alexandrinus

I agree with the 27% that say it's still too early still I hope they'll at least mention Pym and credit him for having an important role in the construction of Ultron. Like developing the Ultron A.I.

Edited by FadeToBlackBolt

The 35% are correct.

The more that's revealed about this movie, the worse it gets.

Batman might be the established genius in DC, but he won't shrink Kandor, because he's not capable of doing it.

Iron Man isn't capable of creating Ultron. Ant-Man is the only one on Marvel Earth who could. But Marvel's higher ups have openly said they don't like Pym, and Whedon's a fanboy of the 7 comics he read as a kid, so we get this crap.

Posted by entropy_aegis

I hope they do Ultron justice,my greatest pet peeve with the Avengers was Loki.

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