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Comic Book Question of the Week: Does the Change in 'Avengers 2' Matter?

Joss Whedon revealed there will be a big change in Avengers 2: Age of Ultron... but does it even matter to you?

Remember that little indie movie called The Avengers (no, not that one)? Yeah, its sequel final has details coming out and you can bet we're beyond stoked for that film to eventually hit theaters. It's so far away, but many of us are already judging the film over a two small details: it's called 'Age of Ultron' and it doesn't involve Hank Pym. So, it's an origin story for Ultron, but will clearly alter his origin because it doesn't include his maker, Hank Pym. Naturally, we've already seen some rage on the internet over this because... you know, that's what it does best sometimes. But, does this change bug you? That's what we want to find out this week.

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And fret not, they've said the title just means it's about Ultron -- not that it's inspired by Marvel's recent event AGE OF ULTRON (a story many of us didn't like). Avengers: Age of Ultron is expected to come out May 1, 2015.

So... who else thinks this means Tony Stark and/or Nick Fury ("I can turn it into a weapon we'll use!") will be behind the villain emerging? Or -- dare I say it -- could it involve Jarvis? LET THE UNFOUNDED SPECULATION BEGIN!

101 Comments
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Posted by Pokergeist

They took Angela and made her into another Gladiator sub alien instead of the warrior angel of war she was.

Forget Age of Ultron. No Redemption.

Edited by tikhunt

I shall be optimistic.

Posted by Holuntron

This is not going to be the story age of Ultron. It is just the name. And personally I have a feeling Joss is trying to mislead people in order to allow for more freedom in making the film. For all we know, it may still be possible Hank Pym will be in there.

Posted by k4tzm4n

They took Angela and made her into another Gladiator sub alien instead of the warrior angel of war she was.

Forget Age of Ultron. No Redemption.

The movie has nothing to do with the story.

And fret not, they've said the title just means it's about Ultron -- not that it's inspired by Marvel's recent event AGE OF ULTRON (a story many of us didn't like).

Edited by chalkshark

As a comic book fan, I'm deeply outraged that Ultron is no longer the creation of Hank Pym. It spits in the face of Ultron's creators, and shows a lack of respect for all the writers who have since crafted that character, and it's relationship dynamic with the Avengers.

As a movie fan, I could care less. The Marvel Cinematic Universe is it's own thing, and it's going to do it's own thing. At the end of the day, all the movie has to be is entertaining. Keep me from thinking about the tedium of real life for a couple of hours, and we're cool.

Edited by Pokergeist

@k4tzm4n said:
@cadencev2 said:

They took Angela and made her into another Gladiator sub alien instead of the warrior angel of war she was.

Forget Age of Ultron. No Redemption.

The movie has nothing to do with the story.

And fret not, they've said the title just means it's about Ultron -- not that it's inspired by Marvel's recent event AGE OF ULTRON (a story many of us didn't like).

Really, the movie?! I though Thanos was going to be in it, since they had Thanos at the end of the first movie.

That is .... I do not know what the word for that let down.

Posted by Mrfuzzynutz

You know what I love, correcting those dudes trying to show off their knowledge to their girlfriends/wives. And getting it all wrong. I live to say " Well actually..."

Just gives me another reason to put the non-geeks in their place. Know your role and shut your mouths ya Jabroni's! lol

Posted by kantrip

I have full trust in Joss on this. Of all the "Big Bads" he's given life, the ones that intrigue me the most are the ones that go off the rails to achieve their goals. If he can do this with Ultron, we're good.

Posted by Doombert

Totally worth it if this ends with the timeline splitting and marvel getting the rights to X-Men and FF back. Other than that...no.

Edited by MrMazz

YES UNFOUNDED SPECULATION!!!

It seems to make the most sense to just have Tony be the creator of Ultron and perhaps it is based on the Jarvis AI. What I don't get is the name: Age of Ultron. Now with this being an Ultron origion story it seems doubtful we will get that crazy time travel capper that was the event book (which is for the best that stuff was cray). So what's with the name?

What if the Ant-Man in the Ant-Man movie is Eric O'Grady or whatever the new guys name is.

Posted by Trevel8182

It's called the Avengers not Iron Man and his Amazing friends and if you take Ultron away from Hank in the Marvel Ciniamtic Universe you take Ultron away from Hank Pym in all medium's I wouldn't be surprised if in Avengers Assemble season 2 Tony Stark created Ultron or Marvel's 2016 comic book event being about Tony Stark creating his own Ultron. Ultron is Hank Pym's biggest contribution to Marvel universe the one constant in his character Marvel's taken his wife Taken Pym Particles and they've taken Ant-Man from him taking Ultron away is taking one of his biggest of pillars in his character but sure I can't wait the see Joss Whedon's Batman movie where Bruce Wayne's parent's don't die or his Captain America movie where he get's his power's from a radioactive Eagle.

Please reconsider Joss Please!!!!!

Posted by daredevil21134

What about Thanos?

Posted by Holuntron

What about Thanos?

Probably the third movie, and they will team up with the Guardians of the Galaxy (Thanos was mentioned in the Guardians panel and trailer at SDCC).

Posted by gator4eva

The change isn't going to make me hate the movie or not want to see it but it definitely is a stupid decision.

Edited by Neon_Jackal

The changes make me uncomfortable, but I trust Joss, so I'm willing to wait and see before condemning it.

Posted by TheHonorableWarrior1982

In Whedon We Trust". Also about Thano glad there not rushing him but he will be in Guardians of The Galaxy

Posted by Hassun

They can obviously write around Pym for Ultron's origin story rather easily.

I just find it rather strange they would make an Ultron film AND an Ant-Man film but somehow don't want to use Hank Pym in any of it.

I also really hope they won't just link this all to Iron Man instead.

Edited by mtrakos

Ultron with no Pym? Sounds like garbage to me hot garbage.

Posted by frozenedge

The name doesn't bug me because I know its not about the Age of Ultron event we just had. What does bug me a little is that Hank probably won't be the one who created Ultron and that it'll more than likely (really big guess here) be Stark who did. People have been saying Ultron will be a corrupted JARVIS inside one of Tony's suits. Now Joss could just be trolling us with a play of words since he said "Antman won't create Ultron or be in Avengers 2" or something like that. He could mean Hank will just be a regular scientist when he accidentally creates Ultron

Posted by patrat18

As a comic book fan, I'm deeply outraged that Ultron is no longer the creation of Hank Pym. It spits in the face of Ultron's creators, and shows a lack of respect for all the writers who have since crafted that character, and it's relationship dynamic with the Avengers.

As a movie fan, I could care less. The Marvel Cinematic Universe is it's own thing, and it's going to do it's own thing. At the end of the day, all the movie has to be is entertaining. Keep me from thinking about the tedium of real life for a couple of hours, and we're cool.

this

Edited by Nahuel

it's a completely separated universe that's been thought for non comic readers, so it doesn't matter!

even I, that I read comics, don't care about the change, but he could be lying again, just like last time

Edited by Shallbecomeabattoo

It doesn't bother me that much, since I can actually see how the movie can benefit from Ultron being Starks creation (Iam willing to bet money that Ultron is born out of J.A.R.V.I.S), but if I were a huge Avengers and Hank Pym fan I would hate it.

In the end I have not high expectations for Avengers 2, since I also don't think that the first one was as greta as the fans made it out to be. I want the sequel to be mindless fun, with a few characters I like and a lotta cool action. Thats all.

Posted by Lykida

First I was puzzled due to the anouncement. But I was one of the few comic fans who liked the twist in Iron Man 3, so I guess I'll wait for the acdtual movie, before making my judgement. Still I'm a little sad that Hank seemingly won't get any screen time at all (neither in Avengers nor in Ant-Man) and that Thanos won't be a major subject in Avengers 2.

So, yeah, in Joss we trust^^

Edited by Grimoire

Not really bad IMO since I don't really care for Pym myself. I just hope that with this enemy they could really show what the Hulk can really do since they have yet to showcase his power grow with anger in a live action movie.

Posted by Z3RO180

I think If Joss makes this movie just about ultron then it will not be as good.

Edited by Revendawn

It's really not a big deal. We really need to start coming to terms with the fact that the Marvel Movie Universe is different than the comics. When the Ultimate Line started tinkering with Origins, deaths, personalities, and whatever else we were mostly fine with it. Happy to simply choose which we liked better between the original and the new counter-part. We should be doing the same here.

I mean have you ever tried seriously explaining comic book related stuff to someone who doesn't know about them?

First you start talking about Ultron, then you have to explain who Hank Pym is, then you have to explain why he'd want to build it, so we need his origins, but oh wait we better bring in all the surrounding characters for him too, because heaven forbid we take liberties on his story as well. Now keep in mind during all of this we also have to explain what the Avengers from that last movie (we loved) are up to. So we need to give them screen time, but we also need to set this story up so it can't all be back story...

Do you see how trying to perfectly follow a medium that comes out on a monthly basis can escalate? It will not be the end of the world that Hank Pym is not in this. I promise you Joss Whedon knows who made Ultron and if he isn't putting that part in there, it's for a reason.

Posted by Smurfboy

Jerry! Jerry! Jerr-, hell naw. Joss!! Joss! Joss!

Posted by BishopSummers

Hank Pym seems very central to the character of Ultron to me. Since they are doing an Ant-Man film anyway why not tie the two together. Just release Ant-Man first and have him start to create Ultron at the end of his movie. I still think Joss will create a really good Avengers sequel. I even think it will be better than the first one. That doesn't mean I have to be happy about this origin change for Ultron.

Posted by ThorBoy

Does fox own the rights to adamantium?

It wasn't included in cap's shield in his movie. So would that mean that ultron will not be indestructible?

Posted by noj

I do have a problem with this especially since we JUST had an event whichs main purpose seemed to be showing everyone the importance of Hank Pym and to an extent Ultron to the Marvel U.

It seems kinda ironic all things considered that Stark is more than likely going to be the one who creates Ultron when we see in Age of Ultron that in a world where Pym doesn't create Ultron Stark pretty much runs the world.

Posted by badaboop

It'll be interesting to see how they pull it off. I was hoping Pym would be involved with the Cinematic Universe at some point, and he may still be, but probably not until Ant-Man. So Ultron's origin has been shifted to probably make it easier, without having to introduce a new character and delve into his history and motivation for creating such a machine. Clearly, the obvious choice to replace Pym as the creator is Tony Stark. I imagine they'll incorporate Jarvis somehow, maybe make his role bigger and influence the creation. I'm willing to bet Vin Diesel will play Ultron, and maybe (this is just me speculating and semi-wishful thinking) Jarvis will be upgraded to become Vision.

What I don't understand is why they would pull the sub-title from that recent of a comic series, one that wasn't even that highly regarded. The wording itself 'Age of Ultron' suggests something large in scope. They've introduced Thanos already and are teasing him to be an upcoming menace in a future movie, most likely Guardians in a minor role and then Avengers 3 as the main villain, however the sub-title with Avengers 2 makes it sound like Ultron will become a huge contender for the heroes. It's very game-changing, and they're taking the series in a completely different direction than we expected, but will it pay off?

Too early to tell. I'm cautiously optimistic, however I doubt Whedon will do anything too drastic that may make us fear the series is derailing.

Posted by Perfect 10

it matters cause yet again someone else is taking another person's credit. tony stark will now create ultron instead of hank pym just like wolverine killed jean when it was jean who sacrificed herself. toney stark is big enough he doesnt need other people's accomplishments added to his own. also the avengers ended with a tease of thanos so a lot of people thought avengers two would focus on him and now that is debunked. most likely they used thanos to tease guardians of the galaxy instead, to tie the movies together so those wouldnt normally go out of their way to see guardians would now to see how it connects to avengers

Posted by Mia26

So once again everything will be about Iron Man ..... yeah I vote we stop that, I mean can we give the little ones a chance.

Posted by TheAmazingImmortalMan

I'll be cautiously optimistic about it but the changes doesn't really bother me.....btw I really enjoyed AOU

Posted by Perfect 10
Posted by sasquatch888

first you cant mention that scarlet witch and quicksilver are magnetos daughter and son and aren't going to be mentioned as mutants (i know its because of the fox agreement ) and now ultron is created without Hank Pym ???...I love Whedon and everyone is going to see Avengers2 no matter what but thought the whole reason marvel studios was created was to avoid compromising the properties and quality by doing the movies themselves ...cant hank pym be a regular scientist in the movie without powers yet. I don't see the advantage of taking pym out of the story altogether. Pym wasn't in the first movie even though hes an original avenger and now by taking him out of the second film i feel like they're really minimizing and diminishing the character. its funny I feel like marvel Used age of ultron the comic to show how important Pym is to the marvel universe ,,,but in the new film of the same name ( i know its a different story with the same name) pyms not even in it ...with the upcoming ant-man movie it just seems like a no brainer to connect pym to ultron ....I'm a purist so it bothers me ...an ultron origin without pym just seems so wrong on so many levels. Everyone is going to see Avengers2 no matter what.

Posted by kennybaese

Ultron without Pym does seem kind of weird, but I'm sure it'll work out one way or another.

Posted by Mezmero

It'll probably work out within the context of the cinematic universe but I'm not particularly happy about it. It's a shame because this pushes Hank Pym even further into obscurity in the mainstream Marvel universe. That sucks since he's actually a really complex and cool character with a lot of flaws. He's a hero that I really like despite all the horrible mistakes he's made. Guess I'll need to keep up with Avengers A.I. just to get some Hank Pym in my diet.

Posted by TheHeat

Who cares? Ant-Man is a nobody in the comics, and the general audience doesn't even know who he is and I doubt they are going to see his movie - especially since Bond 24 is opening on the same day.

Tony being the creator of Ultron, like he was in Heroes of Tomorrow, will be great. This could play on with how in IM3, the armors acted independently via Jarvis. Tony creates Ultron due to the fact he doesn't want to be the Armored Avenger anymore, but is forced to don the armor once again because Ultron has become self-aware and is on a mission of global annihilation. 2015's CBM of the year, folks!

Posted by MaccyD

@thorboy: Cap's shield is Vibranium and judging from it surviving a hit by Thor's hammer; is indestructible. I assume Vibranium will be used here again.

@grimoire: Done in the first hulk film, he got larger whenever he got more angry, it looked bad on film tbh.

@mia26: Here! Here! This fellow/madam is on the right track!

Posted by AmazingWebHead

Seriously, what the hell does Whedon have against Hank Pym!?

Posted by Omega Ray Jay

I was rather surprised they have chosen to do this but after the whole shoehorning in Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver it became apparent that the studio will do anything they want with the property and that continuity to the source material is not a huge priority. In terms of the film itself, I'm sure that they will create a reasonable enough storyline to make it work, I just hope they avoid the obvious Tony Stark connection.

Edited by ILLO_29

I'm not to broken up about. In my opinion Ant Man is kind of a ridiculous character anyway. I look at the movies as being a separate universe from the 616 and Ultimate universe.

Posted by RavenVice01

The only thing I don't get is why they are not introducing Ant-Man or Wasp in Avengers 2. Pym created Ultron and is the only one who knows how to take him down. Most likely what they are going to do is mention Pym's involvement with Ultron's origin. As for Vin Diesel, he has a Dom-Letty relationship in Avengers 2 so its obvious he is going to be the Vision (Ultron's creation) and Scarlet Witch's love will convince the Vision to change sides.

Posted by FalcomAdol

Pym and Janet are founding members of the Avengers. It's a little late to get upset about their non-presence in the movie universe. Their major role in Avengers lore has already got up and gone.

The only thing I don't get is why they are not introducing Ant-Man or Wasp in Avengers 2. Pym created Ultron and is the only one who knows how to take him down. Most likely what they are going to do is mention Pym's involvement with Ultron's origin. As for Vin Diesel, he has a Dom-Letty relationship in Avengers 2 so its obvious he is going to be the Vision (Ultron's creation) and Scarlet Witch's love will convince the Vision to change sides.

Posted by DaltonMunnal

I'm sure it will be great, but I really don't like this change. Not involving Hank Pym makes two possibilities. 1) SHIELD makes Ultron. 2) Tony Stark makes Ultron. The first option sucks because I don't want SHIELD to be stupid bafoons defending people from their own mistakes (like putting the Hulk on the Helicarrier. The second option sucks because not everything is about Tony. I don't really feel that the last movie focused too much on him like everyone else does, but he really didn't need three movies before anyone else got their second, especially when we could be introducing new characters instead. I'm sure as a film without consider it's source it will still be great, but it's going to be throwing out Hank Pym's whole dynamic on the team.

Posted by viin

Hate me but I found the first Avengers a little disappointing. I have kept a little bit of hope for the sequel but the vin diesel announcment and this seems to be a little disapointing. I really didnt see something like this even happening..which makes me loose even more faith in Joss Whedon.

Posted by Onemoreposter

@trevel8182: Haha. Dude, I'm totally on board with a retcon of of Steve Rogers's origin where he gets his powers from a radioactive bald eagle.

The change isn't going to make me hate the movie or not want to see it but it definitely is a stupid decision.

QFT

Edited by ArtisticNeedham

I'd be upset if Hank Pym didn't create Ultron. Its a driving for for his character and for Ultron's. Ultron is sort of Hank Pym's dark side, dark secrets made flesh (metal). He is Pym's hate, fear, loathing, resentments, angry, and all that stuff. Ultron was created using Pym's brain patterns so its sort of all Pym's fault that Ultron hates and wants to wipe out humanity. Its Pym's constant failure, reminder, of his dark self.

And Ultron is also like his son, its also a generational thing. Pym created Ultron and passed down to him all his hatreds, fears, intolerance, etc. Then Ultron creates the Vision who Ultron tries to pass all his bigotry and hatred down to, but this is the "grandfather's" chance to redeem himself and the grandfather (who has changed his ways) saves the grandson (Vision) from the same hatred. So Pym is like the father of Ultron and the grandfather of the Vision.

I'd be sad and a little disappointed if Pym wasn't somehow the main creator of Ultron in Avengers 2. Even if they have to do a round about way of explaining it. Like He is this scientist who used to work with Stark, Banner, and SHIELD, in the past. But has since fallen from grace with all of them. Now Pym sees his former friends and colleagues being celebrated as heroes and loved by all and a small part of him hates that. He finishes his AI he and Stark started years ago (with Jarvis) and uses his own brain patterns to create Ultron. Then Ultron becomes the psycho robot from the comics we know and the unknown scientist has to help the Avengers stop his creation. After he helps them stop Ultron, with the aid of Ultron's creation, the Vision, Pym and Janet join the Avengers and work for SHIELD as special agents. Pym's way to make up for his mistakes, crimes, and all the death and destruction Ultron caused. So he could become Ant Man after the fact, after Ultron and after teaming up with the Avengers to stop Ultron. I'd even be fine with, in the movie, if he had as much action scenes as that normal human scientist from Avengers 1 (the guy who knew Thor).

Having Jarvis be the original Ultron AI prototype helps involve Stark in a big way. So it would give Stark a bigger role to go with his bigger paycheck. But with the idea that (along with the original cast of Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Hulk, and Fury, and possibly Falcon) we are also going to include Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, and Ultron for that matter, and possibly Vision, makes me wonder how much more could they include. Could they include Hank Pym and Janet? Would they have the screen time to make sure they are involved, even if they are normal humans not involved in action scenes?

Posted by JamDamage

@k4tzm4n:

how many times do they need to say that too. That it has nothing to do with the story, just the name.

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