Comic Vine News

64 Comments

Catwoman Then And Now: How Much Has Changed?

We explore how the character has evolved pre and post New 52.

When a character has existed for as long as Catwoman has, you would think that writers would have a grasp and a basic understanding of who she is, what she would sound like and what would make her tick; but that can't be further from the truth. You see, Catwoman is complicated. Very complicated. Not only has she had various origin stories, but sometimes not even she knows what she wants. Does she want Batman, or doesn't she? Does she want to steal, or doesn't she? Yet, that's part of her charm, isn't it? Her unpredictability is part of the character's appeal. And while Catwoman has evolved since she first appeared in the 1940's, she has undergone such dramatic changes to her origin and her identity, that it's difficult to determine who she is exactly. So what qualities make up the character of this complicated vixen? And is she, post 'New 52,' anything like she was before?

No Caption Provided

Catwoman was first introduced in BATMAN #1, printed in April of 1940. Her first appearance was a memorable one, and happened to coincide with Bruce Wayne's origin as Batman. Yet, that Catwoman is very different from the Catwoman we were introduced to twenty-five years ago in Frank Miller's BATMAN: YEAR ONE; and both those interpretations of Catwoman are entirely different from the most recent telling of her origin in CATWOMAN #0 by Ann Nocenti.

== TEASER ==
BATMAN: YEAR ONE
BATMAN: YEAR ONE

One of the most recognizable interpretations of the character appeared in Frank Miller's BATMAN: YEAR ONE. In this series Selina appeared as a girl who grew up on the streets and who, to an extent, became a product of her environment. She gets mixed up with the wrong people, falls into prostitution but she eventually redeems herself. There is a great moment in YEAR ONE where Selina stands up not only for herself, but also for Holly. This "Robin Hood" type of mentality is something that remains constant throughout much of Catwoman's character history. Who will stand up for the helpless? The ones that fall in the grey area that not even Batman will stand to protect? The first hint of this came in YEAR ONE when Selina comes to Holly's defense. This is a quality of her character that resurfaced later in DC's YEAR ONE ANNUAL (1993).

CATWOMAN #0 (1993)
CATWOMAN #0 (1993)

Following Miller's YEAR ONE, DC did away with Selina's "life of prostitution" storyline and opted for a "cleaner" approach to the character. The publisher signed on Doug Moench to do away with the prostitution stuff and focus instead on a life of crime as a thief on the streets of Gotham. During her years as a teen, Catwoman was "brash and reckless" (something we saw a lot of, more recently, in Winnick's first twelve issues of CATWOMAN), stealing from the rich to keep for herself. She would later embark on a life of fighting crime; defending those less fortunate than herself. Remnants of what we saw in Miller's YEAR ONE resurfaced here in this series. But it was a creative team that came years later that would really dig their claws (pun intended) into Catwoman's psyche. The following creative team would later reinstate the prostitution angle to her character, but that would once again be undone when Ed Brubaker and Darwyn Cooke signed on to deliver Catwoman's ongoing series.

It was Brubaker that probably best identified and explained Selina's character. He wrote her as this intricate character who was both reckless, but still very much sure of herself and in control. She dedicated her life to helping people who fell into the "grey;" those unworthy to be defended by Batman. The prostitutes and the junkies. It was in this series that Catwoman dealt with a lot of serious issues -- some of them seemingly stripped straight from the headlines. In the second arc of her series, for example, Selina works to take out a gang that is using underprivileged children to smuggle drugs into Gotham City. Kids who fall under the radar, she finds, are her responsibility to take care of.

CATWOMAN v. 2 #5
CATWOMAN v. 2 #5

It was in this series that Catwoman's moral code was really defined. She wasn't good, but she wasn't bad, either, and she had evolved from the reckless girl who would steal for kicks to a woman who understood that there are people who needed protection; people that the Gotham PD weren't really concerned with.

CATWOMAN: WHEN IN ROME #5
CATWOMAN: WHEN IN ROME #5

Following Brubaker's run on the character, Jeph Loeb took the helm in his mini-series. It was here that ties between Selina and the Falcone family were established, but not something that was really explored afterwards. Loeb and Tim Sale's CATWOMAN: WHEN IN ROME told of Selina's trip to Italy. There, she attempted to uncover her identity and her heritage. Yet, it seems any ties to the Falcone family have been completely done away with. In Ann Nocenti's retelling of Catwoman's story, Selina is not Italian, but Russian, and her origin as a protector of the less fortunate (who may or may not have dabbled in prostitution) has been completely rewritten. Now, she is an orphan girl who loves shiny things, was pushed off the roof of a building, and was licked back to life by a clan of stray cats. While before it seems we had this character that was grounded in reality, now we have a woman who might have magical cat powers? We don't really know yet. What we do know, however, is that this Selina is a lot less deep than the previous character. She is not only considerably less evolved, but she is also so much more shallow. Her motivations are seek out and find shiny things, whereas before it was 'help the helpless.' It's hard not to look back and feel like Selina has lost a lot of what made her character interesting.

CATWOMAN #0 (2012)
CATWOMAN #0 (2012)

I think it's interesting that the character of Selina Kyle evolved considerably into a detective in her own right. It wasn't just Batman playing Robin Hood, it was Selina too. Only difference is, her moral code was a lot more lax than his. When Batman saw only black and white, Selina recognized that there was some gray area in the world; maybe that's why she is so important to his character. In a sense, she created a balance because she offered this alternative view of the world. The problem is, she simply doesn't feel the same. So, although we know who she used to be, we don't quite now who she is now. As for where she is going? The possibilities and infinite, but let's not forget that there already exists a lot of great comic book material to build from. And I'm not even counting Tim Burton's origin of Catwoman in Batman Returns.

What do you think of Catwoman then and now? Which interpretation of her character do you prefer? Let us know your thoughts in the comments.

64 Comments

Avatar image for capit_o_sicron
Capitão Sicron

17

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Catwoman is a really fascinating character! I think she has something we all have, she is not a "completed person". She has doubts, she has uncertainties... She is until more "human" than Batman is. In fact, Batman sees black or white. Catwoman sees the gray... :D

Avatar image for red_jack
Red_Jack

318

Forum Posts

733

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 4

Edited By Red_Jack

I gotta be honest, I only ever liked Catwoman in one way: as a pesky catburglar in Batman comics. Loved the way Doug Moench writes her. Never liked her solo series. Didn't like how she got to be one of those who know Batmans identity. Didn't like how Black Mask was reduced to becoming more of a Catwoman enemy instead of a Batman enemy.

I have been actively trying to avoid reading anything regarding the New 52... I don't even know what a "New 52" is. But if they've changed Catwomans origins in the way that posters here have put it, I wont be too impressed with this New 52 malarky.

Avatar image for jenkale
Jenkale

1656

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 2

Edited By Jenkale

@CaioTrubat: what? that cover is HOTT!

Avatar image for jenkale
Jenkale

1656

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 2

Edited By Jenkale

thanks for this mini tribute to one of my fave characters but everyone seems to forget that this is a NEW universe that is just starting. costume heros and villains have only been around for less then 10 years (bruce was batman for two years before joining justice league which was five years ago). taking that into account we are back at square one with a lot of characters (teen titans, supergirl, superboy, the ravagers, etc.). this is them as they first started out. catwoman was a costumed theif for what 60 years? sure sometimes she teamed up with birds of prey or batman but for the most part she was a villain. then in her second ongoing she became the robin hood-esque crime fighter that newer readers know. i started reading catwoman from the 90s and i actually preferred her life as a thief who would on occasion fight on the side of the angels. so that was why i was excited for this series but when judd winick went away all my dreams were shot. and looking at the sales figures for nocenti's first issue of catwoman (which was an awful issue) she's not going away anytime soon but the selina kyle i know no longer exists :(

Avatar image for zachkastner
zachkastner

188

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By zachkastner

I just spliced Brubaker's Catwoman into my headcanon DCnU. She is out and roaming, I'm just not buying her series anymore. Turning a blind eye to her corner of Gotham means she can stay the character she was in my head after Brubaker's run.

Then when I see her pop up in "Night of the Owls" or "Death of the Family" all I see is Ed's Selina. :D I'm happy. SEE.

Avatar image for tdk_1997
TDK_1997

20479

Forum Posts

60681

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 153

User Lists: 13

Edited By TDK_1997

With the recent #0 I was really surprised with what they have done to her in the bad way.After this issue I think I will definitely drop the book.I just don't like the direction of where it's going.

Avatar image for dizzybone011
dizzybone011

12

Forum Posts

49

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By dizzybone011

When I got the Catwoman Zero issue, it took me three days finish it after looking at the first three page...

Avatar image for wickedfun
wickedfun

64

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By wickedfun

The thing that ticks me off with the new series is, after all Selina has been through you'd think she'd grow up, but no she's a trainwreck. Judd Winick seemed to be going the right route as of late but then they decide to hand over the series to Ann Nocenti and I'm a tad concerned for Selina. After the horrible reviews for her origins issue which Ms. Nocenti wrote (which I haven't read simply due to the fact that I might gouge my eyes out in horror) I'm scared for Selina's future. I don't want her series being cancelled as it's my only means of getting my monthly Catwoman fix. I've been a fan of hers ever since I was a wee little tot, and I intend to remain. I just wish DC would get it together!

Avatar image for mpgeist
mpgeist

78

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By mpgeist

Nolan treated her better than any comic has since Brubaker's run. Except maybe the two issues of Batman Incorporated she was in.

Avatar image for chipsnopotatoes
chipsnopotatoes

340

Forum Posts

7

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

Edited By chipsnopotatoes

I, for one, would be happy if they totally did away with the prostitute origin. It's a double edged sword that could go very very wrong depending on the writer (Judd Winick, I'm looking at you). I was hoping they'd give her something that's a more logical progression towards becoming a world class thief; however, this Batman Returns origin was a lazy way out. And written so haphazardly that it's really insulting to even call it an origin issue for the character. Maybe they knew how ridiculous it was that's why she has another "secret origin" in Catwoman #13

As for the other points in this article, I disagree that her sole motivation now is an attraction to shiny objects. In Winick's run, if you go back to Issue #3 (which was the peak of this series), Selina stole because she thought she was good at it. I have no problems with that. It's like how someone who's quantitatively inclined likes to do math quizzes. It's honing a skill and a livelihood. I never really cared if she was doing it for herself or being Robin Hood. The latter is less interesting, frankly. In Nocenti's issue, she's stealing as an emotional crutch. She had a bad encounter which hurt her ego so she goes stealing to make herself feel better. Maybe that's her equivalent of going to a spa after long stressful day. I don't really have a problem with either of the above.

What really irks me about this DCnUked Catwoman is that she's pretty much lost her smarts, cunning and class (Winick's Selina is described as the Monica Lewinsky of the Batman Family by one reviewer)

1. Winick's Catwoman is unnecessarily violent, reckless to the point of stupid, self destructive and has low self esteem (identifying with Dollhouse and calling herself a monster? Yuck.) I've always thought that to be a world class thief, she would have to do a lot more prep work/planning/strategizing but Winick never really upped her game from these two bit heists he has her pulling. She's probably just a notch above a pickpocket. Not at all worth my time and money. I'm glad he was given his marching papers (and, no, I don't believe the face saving excuse that he was only signed up for 12 issues).

2. As for Ann's first issue, all I can say is so much for "Accidental Feminist" because it was a trainwreck. The concepts weren't bad but it was executed very poorly. And I really don't think she gets Selina at all based on her interviews and past history with the character. Anyone who's read Trail of the Gun would have known that. I hope her run is short because it won't be sweet.

As for who I'd love to see on this book, I recently came across this article by Paul Tobin (currently penning Bionic Woman) on his favorite female character. I've never read anything of his, but, boy, does he get Catwoman! Why isn't Mike Marts/Rachel Gluckstern knocking on his door yet?

http://www.paultobin.net/?p=4914

Excerpts:

But, having talked about great Catwoman writers, what exactly are the elements that make a great Catwoman writer? What traits make her who she is? For me, it’s simple… she has no need to prove herself, and she’s still doing it. Her life is one that could have crushed her, but it didn’t. She enjoys the lure of crime, but doesn’t want anybody to get hurt. She’s comfortable with who she is, but that doesn’t mean she’s not constantly striving to be better. She’s comfortable with criminals. She’s comfortable with heroes. She’s comfortable with the rich. She’s comfortable with the poor. She’s comfortable shouting. She’s comfortable with silence. She’s comfortable with men. She’s comfortable with women. She’s always balanced on the absolute verge of falling completely away, but… she’s comfortable.

I wanted to high five him so much. I don't really understand why DC is pushing this damaged personality on Catwoman fans.

And here's another gem:

Worse, this is from a "man-hater" storyline, and I despise such things. If a writer decides to pen a strong female character, and gives her a trait of "she hates men!"... then the author ISN'T writing a strong female character, they're writing a weak male's fear.

Bravo. Women don't need to be written like they're perpetually on PMS in order to be considered strong or bad ass.

Avatar image for jimay94
Jimay94

17

Forum Posts

64

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Jimay94

as far as im concerned, the real Catwoman isnt in the dc comics anymore. i didnt 100% like what judd was doing but he understands the character WAY more than nocenti does. he showed her some one who was reckless cuz its early in her carer but who is a good person. she wanted to help save those victims from doll house when the police were not doing anything, THATS more like her character. until they get rid of this origin and do something similar to brubaker then she isnt the real Selina we all know and love. as for her relationship with Batman, i was really mad and dissapointed that everything they had developed pre-flashpoint isnt in the new continuity, but i guess it gives wrighters a chance to wright more stories for their realationship develping for the new readers who havent seen their early stages.

Avatar image for pissedoff
SolthesunGod

324

Forum Posts

12097

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 2

Edited By SolthesunGod

Just a short comment. I really enjoyed this article and the Wonder Woman one. It would cool if you kept them up with DC's other leading ladies.

Avatar image for ctrlaltdesign
CtrlAltDesign

2

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By CtrlAltDesign

meow.

Avatar image for foxxfireart
FoxxFireArt

3645

Forum Posts

336411

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 2

Edited By FoxxFireArt
@knighthood
Not sure how well that's going to work out for your desire to see Nocenti off the book. If people are buying it. DC is just going to think people like what she's doing. It doesn't matter what people say on a message board. It's the sales that influence publishers.
Avatar image for billy_batson
Billy Batson

62296

Forum Posts

1287131

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 11

Edited By Billy Batson

@Strafe Prower said:

RIP Catwoman

You know what they say about comic characters' deaths :-p
BB

Avatar image for ticklefist
ticklefist

33

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By ticklefist

I've enjoyed every interpretation of Catwoman up until the new 52, give or take a few hitches like Bronwyn Carlton. I am looking forward to Geoff Johns' take on her with cautious optimism.

Avatar image for jesusdisciple001
jesusdisciple001

622

Forum Posts

2845

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By jesusdisciple001

@bsavelli said:

Sexism has always seemed to be around when the topic is comic books, and Selina Kyle seems to be the one who most suffers from it. I've given up on Catwoman right on the first issues of the New 52 run. To see a character with such great potential, and that finally seemed to be taking off, be reduced to a simple burglar with a (extremely forced) crush for Batman was just... lame, and sexist. Although there were some moments where she did show some strength of character (like when Lola died or when she kicked that guy's ass in the bathroom), she seemed very explosive and selfish in most of her actions, and that signifies a great regression of her character. It's about time creators realize nobody cares about how big the boobs are or how much one can bend her spine without breaking it. It is and has always been about their actions and your ability to identify with them, and for that, we need consistent stories

Thanks.

Avatar image for queenfrost_
queenfrost_

2613

Forum Posts

17002

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 7

Edited By queenfrost_

@bsavelli said:

Sexism has always seemed to be around when the topic is comic books, and Selina Kyle seems to be the one who most suffers from it. I've given up on Catwoman right on the first issues of the New 52 run. To see a character with such great potential, and that finally seemed to be taking off, be reduced to a simple burglar with a (extremely forced) crush for Batman was just... lame, and sexist. Although there were some moments where she did show some strength of character (like when Lola died or when she kicked that guy's ass in the bathroom), she seemed very explosive and selfish in most of her actions, and that signifies a great regression of her character. It's about time creators realize nobody cares about how big the boobs are or how much one can bend her spine without breaking it. It is and has always been about their actions and your ability to identify with them, and for that, we need consistent stories

This ^ After years and years of Catwoman's origin being re-told, we finally had one that wasn't outright sexist (ahem...miller) and actually quite deep (the burglar who helped the helpless story)! But now, she's gone back to being desperate for Batman's 'D' and being licked back to life by cats? Lol done.

Avatar image for sj_esposito
sj_esposito

478

Forum Posts

1138

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 8

User Lists: 3

Edited By sj_esposito

Great article. It's sad that one of DC's most complex and interesting characters has been reduced to a total cliche with awful writing. I guess we should have saw that terrible origin coming when Nocenti told CV this:

You know I am not that versed in the last ten years of comics. I mean I am sure I've read some Catwoman stories in the past, but I am really not versed in her individual runs especially because I've been a Marvel girl throughout most of my career. DC is like a whole new world for me and it's an exciting new whorld. The new 52 thing I think is just terrific. This idea that you can…all that history is gone, but I feel like it's still in the DNA. Everything Catwoman has ever done is still in her even though she doesn't have any of that history. So I think it's a good way to take the characters back to their original conflict that is inside them.

It should come as no surprise that Nocenti ripped off the ending from the film, because she obviously didn't care to do any research into who Selina Kyle really is (or was... I guess).

And, you know, these types of articles can be written about a lot of characters in DC's stable--it's not a small problem with the New 52, but almost a systemic one.

Avatar image for strafe_prower
Strafe Prower

13013

Forum Posts

76113

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 16

Edited By Strafe Prower

RIP Catwoman

Avatar image for fodigg
fodigg

6244

Forum Posts

2603

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 7

Edited By fodigg

I prefer the ally of the bat/avenging anti-hero catwoman:

Avatar image for knighthood
knighthood

1918

Forum Posts

412

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 49

Edited By knighthood

I prefer her as a confident independent individual that has a soft spot for the underbelly of society that no one seems to care about.

Also had a great point in his post.

A scene that caught my eye that exposes Nocenti's complete lack of understanding of Selina was when she's invited to a club and tries to sell herself as a pre-med student, but the handsome, young journalist calls her out on her lie saying that no doctor would have such dirty hands. In this scene, she then runs off crying. The Selina that I know wouldn't run off in tears like some heartbroken, high school girl.

I understand DC's desire to soften Selina's sexuality, but I feel Catwoman was always a strong confident sexual character. I will continue to pick up this book, but I want to see Nocenti off this book ASAP.

Avatar image for redqueen
RedQueen

1199

Forum Posts

5890

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 12

User Lists: 6

Edited By RedQueen

I really don't agree with the "new" direction they're taking her character. As you put it; they've taken a character who was grounded and believable and changed her to be the opposite. She's become a caricature. Never really liked the Batman Returns/Catwoman origin either.

Avatar image for abirzenith
Abirzenith

163

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Abirzenith

Good read and she's one hot cat  ;) ! 

Avatar image for kzr
KZR

504

Forum Posts

728

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By KZR

Old is Gold. That's all I'm gonna say.

Avatar image for katok
Katok

1

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Katok

I really love catwoman, she's my favourite character. But last issue is awful!

Avatar image for lifeboy
lifeboy

1717

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 13

User Lists: 0

Edited By lifeboy

i like her collecting shiny things. f the downtroden. i want a comic of a thief who is out for her self. it almost such a left field idea, iits brilliant literature.

Avatar image for eyz
Eyz

3187

Forum Posts

304

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By Eyz

@cosmo111687 said:

Pre-52 DC Universe was just much better than New 52; better character development, richer worlds, more interesting character and team dynamics. And I felt like it was just getting better and better with no end in sight...until the relaunch. Granted, I love Flashpoint, Swamp Thing, Animal Man, and a few of the redesigns. And I'm glad that the Relaunch has boosted DC's sales. But so many of the best stories from DC's history have been lost; and sadly (especially for me since my love of Catwoman and Batman got me into comics in the first place) Catwoman was just one of the casualties. I hope that they find a creative team in the future that can do Catwoman justice and make her into the woman she was before the relaunch - occasionally heroic, always complicated, and willing to stick her neck out for those less fortunate.

Avatar image for sylentecho
SylentEcho

78

Forum Posts

445

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 7

Edited By SylentEcho

Catwoman has lost most of her appeal to me in The New 52.

Secondly, if a person falls out of a window and hits the ground, cats wouldn't lick that person or even try to help. They'd just run away. Dogs would stand around, lick the person a little bit and whimper and maybe even try to get help because they'd kind of know what happened.

Avatar image for lorex
lorex

1000

Forum Posts

5

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 17

User Lists: 0

Edited By lorex

I like Catwoman but I have never really thought of her as a hero. She reminds me of a character in pulpy spy novels that changes sides as the situation unfolds to her advantage.

Avatar image for outside_85
Outside_85

23518

Forum Posts

18735

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 39

User Lists: 1

Edited By Outside_85

Like other things...Catwoman is a casualty of Flashpoint.

Avatar image for jaytiz27
jaytiz27

70

Forum Posts

40

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By jaytiz27

I just finished reading the tpb batman ego and other tails by Darwin Cooke and it had a really nice 3 part heist story in it, probably my favourite cat woman i have read so far. What should I read next does everyone think?

Avatar image for redheadedatrocitus
RedheadedAtrocitus

6958

Forum Posts

8982

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 3

Catwoman truly is one of those characters that I enjoy seeing a redefinition of no matter how she changes. I like her pre-Flashpoint and even enjoy her New 52...but its not Earth 0's Catwoman that intrigues me the most...its this one...

I wanna get to know this one more, even if she is dead :/

Avatar image for cosmo111687
cosmo111687

1583

Forum Posts

3311

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 23

User Lists: 15

Edited By cosmo111687

Pre-52 DC Universe was just much better than New 52; better character development, richer worlds, more interesting character and team dynamics. And I felt like it was just getting better and better with no end in sight...until the relaunch. Granted, I love Flashpoint, Swamp Thing, Animal Man, and a few of the redesigns. And I'm glad that the Relaunch has boosted DC's sales. But so many of the best stories from DC's history have been lost; and sadly (especially for me since my love of Catwoman and Batman got me into comics in the first place) Catwoman was just one of the casualties. I hope that they find a creative team in the future that can do Catwoman justice and make her into the woman she was before the relaunch - occasionally heroic, always complicated, and willing to stick her neck out for those less fortunate.

Avatar image for innervenom123
InnerVenom123

29886

Forum Posts

1786

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 1

Edited By InnerVenom123

Yeah, Selina got f**ked over bad in the DCnU...

Avatar image for foxxfireart
FoxxFireArt

3645

Forum Posts

336411

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 2

Edited By FoxxFireArt

Well, anyone who's looked at my blog in the past few weeks knows that this is a subject I've been passionate about. It's a joy to read more on the subject.

I like Franky Miller's YEAR ONE version because she was brash, complicated, and was a dark reflection of Bruce's story. That might even be why Miller added her into the origin story of Batman. She wasn't the stereotype prostitute character. However, Mindy Newell came in on HER SISTER'S KEEPER and artificially grafted all those stereotypes onto that story.

I think having Selina grow up and be a member of the darker side of Gotham is what gives her a connection and motivation to help that part of the community. I really like that line that Miller wrote in the scene that was used in the article. The thing about men that she hated is becasue she never met one.. It reminds me of a great line John Wayne says in the movie MCLINTOCK.

" You have to be a man before you can be a gentleman; "

That scene Nocenti made is just insulting to Selina as a character. I know that could go for a lot of scenes she made, so let me elaborate. It's just after that journalist humiliated her at the club. She goes directly from that to frantically looking for any house to steal from. She's like an addict in need of a fix. She breaks into some random house and clutches the first set of pearls to her face, and crying for no apparent reason as she yells "Mine!".

What if they were to make Selina into the Irene Adler of DC? A lady detective who works outside the law and deals with the "less desirables" that fall through the cracks. Batman's busy with the super criminals, and he can't handle ever mystery and crime in the city. You need to give a reason why she's so protective of those people.

Excellent work here, Sara. I always enjoy your editorials. Hope you and Tony have a safe and fun trip for the NYCC.

I'm a fan of Catwoman, but you obviously know far, far more than I do about her rather convoluted history - histories. I notice a theme. It seems every time they try and "clean up " her origin. They tend to make things aimless.

Avatar image for darkmount1
Darkmount1

1535

Forum Posts

19439

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 12

Edited By Darkmount1

@Babs: I know how that scene goes--I've seen the movie two times.

Avatar image for no_name_
No_Name_

16193

Forum Posts

2734

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 55

User Lists: 2

Edited By No_Name_

@Darkmount1 said:

Funny Sara mentioned the "Batman Returns" origin--because it looks like Nocenti lifted a bit of that for the Zero issue.

Watch the scene in Batman Returns and then re-read Nocenti's zero issue. It is almost word for word the same. It is frame by frame the scene in Batman Returns.

Avatar image for darkmount1
Darkmount1

1535

Forum Posts

19439

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 12

Edited By Darkmount1

Funny Sara mentioned the "Batman Returns" origin--because it looks like Nocenti lifted a bit of that for the Zero issue.

Avatar image for monitor_earthprime
monitor_earthprime

84

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Yet another reason I stopped getting the main DC titles. When they included that stupid Meow-to-Mouth resucation and now Catwoman is the awful Batman Returns/Haley Berry Catwoman that flopped at the movies.

Avatar image for x_29
x_29

2375

Forum Posts

4

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 33

User Lists: 0

Edited By x_29

As soon as i saw the title, i knew babs wrote the article. Catwoman ftw! Except the Halley Berry version.

Avatar image for no_name_
No_Name_

16193

Forum Posts

2734

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 55

User Lists: 2

Edited By No_Name_

@MisterKetch said:

Excellent article I feel like you could have gone further into her character though, maybe brought up her killing Black Mask and then her struggles trying to be a good mother.

I definitely agree. There was a lot I wanted to touch on but didn't because I wanted to keep it concise and focused. Those are two really big points though.

Avatar image for pspin
pspin

1081

Forum Posts

15126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 182

User Lists: 0

Edited By pspin

that Zero issue origin, while not the best, at least brings a new angle that could be interesting. It will either be really good or really bad.

Avatar image for misterketch
MisterKetch

254

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By MisterKetch

Excellent article I feel like you could have gone further into her character though, maybe brought up her killing Black Mask and then her struggles trying to be a good mother. But definately made some good points regarding where she fits into the world, unlike a lot of the bat allies I always felt Selina stood out on her own, she was dealing with the scraps, the leftovers that batman and the others don't have time for.

The Zero issue made me very nervous, even more so that the same writer who is responsible for the Green Arrow train wreck is now in charge of my favorite DC character.

Avatar image for lemmycaution
LemmyCaution

78

Forum Posts

5

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By LemmyCaution

One of the sticking points for the Catwoman #0 issue on the Podcast seemed to be the scene where the cats "lick her back to life." I never really had a problem with this, even in Batman II. I guess it's because I never thought she had died, only nearly died. Then went a little crazy after the cats "revived" her. I don't think the cats are magic. Well, that's my two sense on just that one part of the origin. I could see how the other changes could be bothersome. Then again, maybe I am biased. Batman II is my favorite of all the Batman movies (even though it has Michael Keaton in it).

Avatar image for bsavelli
bsavelli

57

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By bsavelli

Sexism has always seemed to be around when the topic is comic books, and Selina Kyle seems to be the one who most suffers from it. I've given up on Catwoman right on the first issues of the New 52 run. To see a character with such great potential, and that finally seemed to be taking off, be reduced to a simple burglar with a (extremely forced) crush for Batman was just... lame, and sexist. Although there were some moments where she did show some strength of character (like when Lola died or when she kicked that guy's ass in the bathroom), she seemed very explosive and selfish in most of her actions, and that signifies a great regression of her character. It's about time creators realize nobody cares about how big the boobs are or how much one can bend her spine without breaking it. It is and has always been about their actions and your ability to identify with them, and for that, we need consistent stories

Avatar image for mercy_
Mercy_

94955

Forum Posts

83653

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 15

Edited By Mercy_
Now, she is an orphan girl who loves shiny things, was pushed off the roof of a building, and was licked back to life by a clan of stray cats. While before it seems we had this character that was grounded in reality, now we have a woman who might have magical cat powers?

Best summation of DCnU Selina I've seen so far.

This article makes me painfully nostalgic for the real Catwoman :(

@Mandrewgora said:

I'm torn between still buying the issues to support the character or to stop getting them for how bad it all is. Nice article btw.

I know this feel well. Drop the book if you like the character and don't like what they're doing with her. The only way that comic book companies (or at least/especially the Big Two) monitor what the fans think is through book sales. That's why even though we bemoan events on the internet, they pump them out continuously - because people will always buy them. So if they're putting out a book that you dislike or does a disservice to a character you love, show the company that you think that and drop the book.

Avatar image for readitnow
ReadItNow

180

Forum Posts

344

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 14

Edited By ReadItNow

Other than the zero issue. I enjoyed the new 52 Catwoman . The first issue was a bold move of the batman relationship.... I know they can,t go to the well too much with Batman but if they do, they should do it hot and heavy like they did in issue one.

Avatar image for inverno
Inverno

13756

Forum Posts

8579

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 14

User Lists: 6

Edited By Inverno

Hey guys it could have been a lot worse. They could have used that terrible cover...

No Caption Provided
Avatar image for scarlettlynn
ScarlettLynn

164

Forum Posts

9020

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 4

Edited By ScarlettLynn

Catwoman's prior series was the very first title I added when I made my first pull list. I loathe what Nocenti did in this latest issue #0 and I've dropped the series from my pull list while she's writing it. It's disappointing.

  • 64 results
  • 1
  • 2