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Brutally Honest: Moments That Make You Shake Your Head

by on

Don't you just hate that?

Part of the reason why so many comic fans feel so attached to certain characters is because they find some characteristic or attribute in them that they find appealing. Some find that they can relate to them and even look up to them. For example, when I look at Wonder Woman, I envision this woman who isn't simply physically powerful- but is empowering to me as a woman. Sometimes it is easier to look up to a fictional character because you are less disappointed by them than you are by an actual person. I mean, let's face it, people can have some pretty high expectations. However, sometimes a character runs into some bad writing- and that's not really their fault.
 
The biggest shake my head moment in comics definitely goes to Power Girl's appearance in JSA Classified #2. Unfortunately, not even Amanda Conner's incredible art could make this moment easier for me as a fan to accept. In that issue, Power Girl explains to Superman the meaning behind the lack of insignia on her uniform. Her reason being that she simply could not think of anything. Really? She couldn't think of a symbol so she just put a giant hole there? How absolutely and utterly disappointing. Not to mention the way that she compares herself to Superman just totally turned me off as a reader.
 
More recently, however, was the appearance of Wonder Woman in issue #708 of Superman.
 == TEASER ==    
While I can't take any credit for being the first person to notice this particular panel ( I can thank Sue for pointing that out to me), I can't say I wasn't equally as disappointed as so many other readers. If you have been reading Wonder Woman, then you know that the character has not only seemed to have misplaced her costume- but her identity as well.     

 Superman #708
Much like Superman in his current series, both founders of the Justice League seem to be a little lost in their own ongoing books. Superman has been trekking across the United States from city to city in search of himself, and Wonder Woman has been on her own journey of self discovery and understanding, looking for clues about who she is. Decked out in a new costume and without any knowledge of the woman she used to be- Wonder Woman has a whole new identity. In this particular scene, Wonder Woman encounters Superman and tells him that while her sisters have taught her how to be a warrior, that by watching him, Superman has taught her how to be a hero. Okay, given that this is a completely new take on a Wonder Woman with a new identity, I can almost understand where she is coming from. Almost. 
 
In a recent issue of Wonder Woman, she did everything she could to save an innocent boy and his single Mother, without Superman's help-  that alone is pretty heroic to me. But putting that fact aside for just a moment, let's look at the panel itself. This incredibly important appearance is vital to Wonder Woman's self discovery and her journey of uncovering her own identity- and like someone pointed out, it happened in Superman's book. She couldn't even realize that she wants to be a hero in her own book.  
 
Finally, why Superman? Lately, Superman seems just as lost as Wonder Woman, so of all heroes to choose from, why look to him and have this epiphany? Wonder Woman is supposed to be this extremely powerful character (both emotionally and physically) so it was rather disappointing to me that she had to look to Superman in order to validate herself. In that sense, this moment which was supposed to have been crucial to her own character development was used as a plot device to propel Superman's character- thus throwing Wonder Woman even further into limbo. What a bummer for Wonder Woman fans, and I am supposed to look up to her as a character, right? And it isn't as though there aren't a plethora of strong female characters that are fully grounded in their identities and aren't completely self aware, either. Look at Oracle, Donna Troy or Power Girl? All of these characters have proven (particularly recently) that they are exceptional role models. I guess it would have been great as a female reader to see the most iconic female character influenced and inspired by another Woman. 
 
Enough of my rant, though, what moments in comics have made you just shake your head?
Filed under:
Superman
Wonder Woman
Donna Troy
Power Girl
Barbara Gordon
213 Comments
Posted by Angeni

I agree >_<

Posted by danhimself

it's really not that big of a deal

Posted by Trodorne

Yep, makes me mad. sometimes i wonder what is going through their heads when they came up with these ideas.

Edited by johnny_spam

I feel for people when they see their character do something that they do not think is true but sometimes I think people overreact. Personally I never liked the idea that the JSA was now older than the Trinity and would prefer if through some means Superman was the source of inspiration for the heroes and the truth is that Wonder Woman was made to be a Superman for girls and it is not out of the realm of possibility in universe other heroes are inspired by him.

Posted by Caligula
@danhimself said:
" it's really not that big of a deal "
agreed. I already explained why this is a good thing for Wonder Woman in the other thread about this.
Posted by Caligula
@johnny spam said:
" I feel for people when they see their character do something that they do not think is true but sometimes I think people overreact. Personally I never liked the idea that the JSA was now older than the Trinity and would prefer is through some means Superman was the source of inspiration for the heroes and the truth is that Wonder Woman was made to be a Superman for girls and it is not out of the realm of possibility in universe other heroes are inspired by him. "
totally.
Posted by danhimself
@Caligula said:
" @danhimself said:
" it's really not that big of a deal "
agreed. I already explained why this is a good thing for Wonder Woman in the other thread about this. "
her current status is only temporary...if you've been paying attention to everything that's been going on in the DC Universe they've already stated that there's something wrong with the timeline (Flashpoint) and most chances are that Wonder Woman will be back to her old low selling self after the current 12 issue arc is finished
Posted by Mercy_

Every single appearance of Emma Frost written by Matt Fraction makes me shake my head. 

Moderator
Posted by Caligula
@danhimself: Most likely, but it's still a good thing this is going to attract readers to her book that she didn't normally, and even if it does go back to her old ways then some of those readers may stick.
 
Wonder Woman is one of the big three. But most fans couldn't tell you why.
Posted by Xenozoic Shaman

None of the moments mentioned really bother me all that much, but I entirely understand how there are moments which make one cringe.

Edited by Band Lone



  This messed up Spider-man forever
Posted by MTHarman

I guess the biggest "shake my head" moment was in New Avengers #50 where we see the Avengers planning to take down Norman Osborn's Dark Avengers and I see Luke Cage say the phrase 
"We'll beat the black off of them" or something like that.
Posted by Sparky_Buzzsaw

It's hard to say exactly what makes me the most upset at comics, since I haven't been an avid reader since the early 90's in my teens.  But I think just about any time a character is brought back from the dead, it seriously irritates me.  It's a cheap device used by writers mostly to get a short term boost in sales.  Very rarely is it done with any amount of true foresight or real intelligence (off the top of my head, only the Winter Soldier/Bucky comes to mind).  As a reader, it's also almost insulting.  New characters should be brought in to take the place of the old, to gently usher in new readers as well as provide some sort of closure for long term readers.  Death, even in comic books, should be permanent most of the time. 

Posted by johnny_spam

Also as cheesy as the lines are that Powergirl scene had the context of Infinite Crisis coming she did not know who she was or were she came from she felt loss and the line reflects that.

Posted by Caligula
@johnny spam said:
" Also as cheesy as the lines are that Powergirl scene had the context of Infinite Crisis coming she did not know who she was or were she came from she felt loss and the line reflects that. "
exactly both of these have a little more story behind them than what is being shown here.
Posted by Darkmount1

I think there should be a requirement where a certain comic, when it's in the middle of a transition of writers, each writer that has a run should have a very basic and deep understanding of the character and take all previous appearances where the character was strongly written into account as they write that character.
 
And of course those writers should be necrophobic.
Posted by chowy

I totally agree with u on WW. And i get the feeling that in little time we will get a retcon so that all this new WW is forgoten.

But on Power Girl, she was really lost, how many times has her origin been changed?
She really didn´t know who she was for sure until the IC, so it made sense what she pointed out about the hole on her costume.

Posted by JoseDRiveraTCR7

They should just say that Power Girl has a giant hole is because of boob sweat. It's easier to cool them down with the hole.
 
Superman #708 was just weird period. I read it and I wasn't sure what the point of the issue was. The whole conversation with Wonder Woman and Superman felt off.
 
PS The more I see of WW's costume, the more I want her to keep it instead of her old one.

Posted by thelaughingmagician

I've gotta agree with this. When reading DC Superman is apparently the envy of all other superheroes (and some villains) in the DCU. Most characters seem to find validation and awe in simply watching him do his thing or by being in his presence. Loeb is especially known for having characters that have owned supes (such as Cap Atom) thinking to themselves or saying "I'm  nothing compared to supes"  The Superman touting is something the company does to the extreme likely because of his status as the flagship char of the company. As these two instances show it can be a detriment to the story of other characters. 

Posted by SC
SENTRY AND ROGUE  
 
My neck almost fell off. seriously? Know I know why Living Tribunal has no neck. He shook it like a saltshaker.  
 
A fully developed, fan favorite, popular, strong female character with a complicated and intricate history involving some touch and sensitive issues, gets reduced to her powers for a one affair with a married man when she was like 16? You know when the writer that had been expertly filling in her history and past month after month is blindsided with this new development that this is a poor move. Why not reveal it was Spider-man that had a torrid love affair with Sentry, if its not a big deal as the subsequent excuses and justifications for it might claim. Thats my Yoshimitsu! 
Edited by Sergotron

When it was revealed Gwen Stacey had an affair with Norman Osborn. Then secretly have children which she kept from Peter. I think it really damaged her character and I never felt the same way for Spidey comics again. 
 
It not only had me shaking my head, but have me quit comics for a few years.

Posted by johnny_spam
@thelaughingmagician: @thelaughingmagician said:
" I've gotta agree with this. When reading DC Superman is apparently the envy of all other superheroes (and some villains) in the DCU. Most characters seem to find validation and awe in simply watching him do his thing or by being in his presence. Loeb is especially known for having characters that have owned supes (such as Cap Atom) thinking to themselves or saying "I'm  nothing compared to supes"  The Superman touting is something the company does to the extreme likely because of his status as the flagship char of the company. As these two instances show it can be a detriment to the story of other characters.  "
It's funny considering the low status he has in terms of rank and sales but it is true in a meta way since he inspired all heroes Infinite Crisis mentions that somehow all started from him Final Crisis took a step further and said the DCU are living stories and Superman was the first one so it is canon based on lines like that and in the real world.
Edited by Norusdog

Like said..I don't see the big deal behind wonderwoman.  Seems bitching for the sake of bitching.
 
But seriously, edit your title..it's misleading.  You start off like this is a post to talk about stupid moments in comics only to turn it into (yet again) a complaint about Wonder Woman and women role-models in general in comics
 
This isn't about "moments that make you shake your head" it's just another "comics are sexist and Wonder Woman sucks now" thread.

MANY heroes say they were inspired by Superman and/or he's the one that holds everything together.
 
ever read Kingdom Come?  Superman takes off and the world goes to hell with a bunch of wolverine/batman vigilante wannabe's that have no problem killing..only by Superman returning were things set right
 
We get it.  You're not happy with the direction Wonder Woman has taken.  You make it clear as much as you can.  And this post is just a veiled stab at it again.  We get it.  
 
Though I will give you one thing..the Power Girl thing was stupid.
 
Honestly though, and you can dismiss this as a bad excuse (but it doesn't change facts), if you want a truly inspirational female role-model....don't look at a medium dominated by males for that role-model.  It's not going to happen.
 
not to mention this politically correct bullshit is tiring...someone ALWAYS has to pick apart ANYTHING they can find to find something racist, sexist, or whatever else and complain about it.

Posted by SC
@johnny spam said:
" I feel for people when they see their character do something that they do not think is true but sometimes I think people overreact. Personally I never liked the idea that the JSA was now older than the Trinity and would prefer if through some means Superman was the source of inspiration for the heroes and the truth is that Wonder Woman was made to be a Superman for girls and it is not out of the realm of possibility in universe other heroes are inspired by him. "
 
Then you may run the risk of underestimating objective reasoning and measuring of how characters trade off each other. Putting favorites aside, its not that big a deal if we have three characters who look up to Superman and cite him as an inspiration. Pretty cool actually. Change that number from 3 to 2? Or 3 to 4? Not that huge a difference. Introduce another variable, say a character that many people specifically care, appreciate and like because that character is different... from the three characters we have identified find Superman inspiring and the source for motivation? So its a trait our new character has, that distinguishes them. Now... try changing that character so that she conforms? Like I said before, if we change the number of characters from 3 to 2, or 3 to 4, in this case it would be 4, since we are adding a character, the effect on Superman is minimal creative wise, but for a character who formerly stood out and was appreciated for standing out in whatever context, well, take a character you like, and the reason you like them? Then change it? Not necessarily going to be the case in all examples. Naturally more complicated than that, but just reaction and overreaction? How does one tell? 
Posted by jointron33
@norusdog:
hey, be nice to her!
Posted by Silver Knight75

3 words: ONE MORE DAY!

Posted by iLLituracy

Truthfully that whole issue made Superman interesting to me. To think that something could actually break his ideals and what he believes, even momentarily...I actually haven't minded MOST of JMS's Grounded arc. It's not all that exciting, but it's interesting. 
 
The whole Wonder Woman thing is confusing, though I agree that the validation thing is wrong. Not just for Wonder Woman but for EVERY character that was introduced as an independent character and then have their origin CHANGED to be inspired or include a popular hero.  
 
It happened to the Creeper in his most recent mini-series where Batman was involved and his origin was changed to involve Joker venom. It happened to Captain Marvel to involve Superman. It cheapens the character and almost makes them a sub-character in the larger more popular character's universe.

Posted by johnny_spam
@SC: @SC said:
" @johnny spam said:
" I feel for people when they see their character do something that they do not think is true but sometimes I think people overreact. Personally I never liked the idea that the JSA was now older than the Trinity and would prefer if through some means Superman was the source of inspiration for the heroes and the truth is that Wonder Woman was made to be a Superman for girls and it is not out of the realm of possibility in universe other heroes are inspired by him. "
 Then you may run the risk of underestimating objective reasoning and measuring of how characters trade off each other. Putting favorites aside, its not that big a deal if we have three characters who look up to Superman and cite him as an inspiration. Pretty cool actually. Change that number from 3 to 2? Or 3 to 4? Not that huge a difference. Introduce another variable, say a character that many people specifically care, appreciate and like because that character is different... from the three characters we have identified find Superman inspiring and the source for motivation? So its a trait our new character has, that distinguishes them. Now... try changing that character so that she conforms? Like I said before, if we change the number of characters from 3 to 2, or 3 to 4, in this case it would be 4, since we are adding a character, the effect on Superman is minimal creative wise, but for a character who formerly stood out and was appreciated for standing out in whatever context, well, take a character you like, and the reason you like them? Then change it? Not necessarily going to be the case in all examples. Naturally more complicated than that, but just reaction and overreaction? How does one tell?  "
Though many superheroes after wards probably were not inspired by Superman but that is where it came from changing the source of inspiration in a soft reboot that may not last does not get rid of the stories the character had the feelings people and fans feel for her or what she is suppose to mean. Logically I think Superman should be the source of inspiration based on where he came from and how that many DC characters including Wonder Woman  considered him in their creation.
Posted by SC
@norusdog said:
" Like said..I don't see the big deal behind wonderwoman.  Seems bitching for the sake of bitching.  But seriously, edit your title..it's misleading.  You start off like this is a post to talk about stupid moments in comics only to turn it into (yet again) a complaint about Wonder Woman and women role-models in general in comics  This isn't about "moments that make you shake your head" it's just another "comics are sexist and Wonder Woman sucks now" thread. MANY heroes say they were inspired by Superman and/or he's the one that holds everything together.  ever read Kingdom Come?  Superman takes off and the world goes to hell with a bunch of wolverine/batman vigilante wannabe's that have no problem killing..only by Superman returning were things set right  We get it.  You're not happy with the direction Wonder Woman has taken.  You make it clear as much as you can.  And this post is just a veiled stab at it again.  We get it.    Though I will give you one thing..the Power Girl thing was stupid.  Honestly though, and you can dismiss this as a bad excuse (but it doesn't change facts), if you want a truly inspirational female role-model....don't look at a medium dominated by males for that role-model.  It's not going to happen.  not to mention this politically correct bullshit is tiring...someone ALWAYS has to pick apart ANYTHING they can find to find something racist, sexist, or whatever else and complain about it. "
 
In effect you post does not really do the exact same thing no? Its easy to throw the word PC around like its a bad thing, but say I accuse your post of actually being more PC?  
 
You don't see the big deal, or you disagree that it should be a big deal? Difference. Don't always have to agree with what you see or understand. 
 
You almost seem to miss the point I personally feel, its not about generalizations, its about specifics, Superman fans, never complain about his writing? There are no valid criticisms about any of their concerns ever, because it could be justified? Deciding what constitutes a truly inspirational female role-model also relative you must understand? For many there are such characters in bulk already. As in it has happened.  
 
You prove your own point, but seem okay stating it despite it supposedly being tiring? (someone always has to pick apart anything, after you just pick apart a thread to... well I won't assume, but its to complain right?)  
 
Come on man, we are all people here, (I hope, one poster before sounded like a Spambot...) forget if its tired or PC, lets have a fun friendly discussion. Namely Generalization vs Specifics? May I politely inquire to your favorite characters? ^_^
Posted by RazzaTazz

I cant say that I have that many cringe moments in comic books.  Maybe its because I have so much silver age and golden age, the plot devices and chracter development back then were pretty lame, so at least we can be thankful that modern writers don't still write like that.   
 
One of my most cringing moments though was a few years back when they had the JL? series, where the heroes forget what the A stands for and each original members recreates a team starting with A.  The whole series was so purely written it just made me wish that someone had never greenlighted the miniseries.  I guess another one which bothers me is whenever any writer tries to sound cool, but obviously came up with any terms at the last moment.  I remember when D Greyson took over Nightwing for a bit, she had Dick get injured and taken in by a family to nurse him back to health.  The young daughter gets a crush on him and starts calling him "Crutches" in what must be the worst nickname of all time.   
 
As for Wonder Woman being inspired by Superman, wouldn't it have been so much better if she had witnessed a non powered human ion action as opposed to a superpowered alien.  How about like female firefighter.  The reason that Diana's supporting cast is so weak is because they always do this to her. 
Moderator
Posted by SC
@johnny spam said:
" @SC: @SC said:
" @johnny spam said:
" I feel for people when they see their character do something that they do not think is true but sometimes I think people overreact. Personally I never liked the idea that the JSA was now older than the Trinity and would prefer if through some means Superman was the source of inspiration for the heroes and the truth is that Wonder Woman was made to be a Superman for girls and it is not out of the realm of possibility in universe other heroes are inspired by him. "
 Then you may run the risk of underestimating objective reasoning and measuring of how characters trade off each other. Putting favorites aside, its not that big a deal if we have three characters who look up to Superman and cite him as an inspiration. Pretty cool actually. Change that number from 3 to 2? Or 3 to 4? Not that huge a difference. Introduce another variable, say a character that many people specifically care, appreciate and like because that character is different... from the three characters we have identified find Superman inspiring and the source for motivation? So its a trait our new character has, that distinguishes them. Now... try changing that character so that she conforms? Like I said before, if we change the number of characters from 3 to 2, or 3 to 4, in this case it would be 4, since we are adding a character, the effect on Superman is minimal creative wise, but for a character who formerly stood out and was appreciated for standing out in whatever context, well, take a character you like, and the reason you like them? Then change it? Not necessarily going to be the case in all examples. Naturally more complicated than that, but just reaction and overreaction? How does one tell?  "
Though many superheroes after wards probably were not inspired by Superman but that is where it came from changing the source of inspiration in a soft reboot that may not last does not get rid of the stories the character had the feelings people and fans feel for her or what she is suppose to mean. Logically I think Superman should be the source of inspiration based on where he came from and how that many DC characters including Wonder Woman  considered him in their creation. "
 
So why does Superman not bow down to Hercules metaphorically or Hugo Danner? Its what I am calling a generalized argument vs a specific one. Its got less to do with Superman, and more to do with Wonder Woman. Writers get to consciously choose character trade off. A good way to keep fans of characters happy, is protect the more popular ones, from trading off to much with other characters. You are following me? You could introduce 100 new characters and have then cite any character as a source of inspiration, but Superman himself? Wonder Woman, and Batman, they should be a considered priority over newer characters. Long term at least, similar to how a new villain might beat Superman in the first fight, imagine if they just left it there? They don't usually, Supes was holding back, and he usually comes back and brings the fury lol  
 
With this specific example, its less about power and more about again, one of the biggest reasons people appreciate and like Wonder Woman. How important? Its hard to know, people are talking about it and discussing it. Try with your own favorite character, and the thing you identify with them as your favorite trait and I will give you an example fitted for them?
Posted by Duo_forbidden

Personally, I thought PG's reasoning for not having a symbol was reasonable. It's the origin story that she was apparently from the ancient city of Atlantis and her powers are magic based that made me think WTH was they thinking when writing that.
 
I have a couple of others like OMD, and what happened to Cassandra Cain during that One Year Later storyline.

Posted by SC
@RazzaTazz said:
" I cant say that I have that many cringe moments in comic books.  Maybe its because I have so much silver age and golden age, the plot devices and chracter development back then were pretty lame, so at least we can be thankful that modern writers don't still write like that.    One of my most cringing moments though was a few years back when they had the JL? series, where the heroes forget what the A stands for and each original members recreates a team starting with A.  The whole series was so purely written it just made me wish that someone had never greenlighted the miniseries.  I guess another one which bothers me is whenever any writer tries to sound cool, but obviously came up with any terms at the last moment.  I remember when D Greyson took over Nightwing for a bit, she had Dick get injured and taken in by a family to nurse him back to health.  The young daughter gets a crush on him and starts calling him "Crutches" in what must be the worst nickname of all time.    As for Wonder Woman being inspired by Superman, wouldn't it have been so much better if she had witnessed a non powered human ion action as opposed to a superpowered alien.  How about like female firefighter.  The reason that Diana's supporting cast is so weak is because they always do this to her.  "
 
Way more poetic. Way more interesting. Fans are essentially nameless, faceless characters. I agree. It would be a grander gesture to anon firefighter than a character that already has a bunch of positive imprints on likewise heroic characters aka Steel etc
Posted by -The Renegade-

Happens to me too to shake my head from times to times in comic books. But what's even worse is the number of times I do it watching some comic book movies...

Posted by Norusdog
@SC said:
" @norusdog said:
" Like said..I don't see the big deal behind wonderwoman.  Seems bitching for the sake of bitching.  But seriously, edit your title..it's misleading.  You start off like this is a post to talk about stupid moments in comics only to turn it into (yet again) a complaint about Wonder Woman and women role-models in general in comics  This isn't about "moments that make you shake your head" it's just another "comics are sexist and Wonder Woman sucks now" thread. MANY heroes say they were inspired by Superman and/or he's the one that holds everything together.  ever read Kingdom Come?  Superman takes off and the world goes to hell with a bunch of wolverine/batman vigilante wannabe's that have no problem killing..only by Superman returning were things set right  We get it.  You're not happy with the direction Wonder Woman has taken.  You make it clear as much as you can.  And this post is just a veiled stab at it again.  We get it.    Though I will give you one thing..the Power Girl thing was stupid.  Honestly though, and you can dismiss this as a bad excuse (but it doesn't change facts), if you want a truly inspirational female role-model....don't look at a medium dominated by males for that role-model.  It's not going to happen.  not to mention this politically correct bullshit is tiring...someone ALWAYS has to pick apart ANYTHING they can find to find something racist, sexist, or whatever else and complain about it. "
 In effect you post does not really do the exact same thing no? Its easy to throw the word PC around like its a bad thing, but say I accuse your post of actually being more PC?   You don't see the big deal, or you disagree that it should be a big deal? Difference. Don't always have to agree with what you see or understand.  You almost seem to miss the point I personally feel, its not about generalizations, its about specifics, Superman fans, never complain about his writing? There are no valid criticisms about any of their concerns ever, because it could be justified? Deciding what constitutes a truly inspirational female role-model also relative you must understand? For many there are such characters in bulk already. As in it has happened.   You prove your own point, but seem okay stating it despite it supposedly being tiring? (someone always has to pick apart anything, after you just pick apart a thread to... well I won't assume, but its to complain right?)   Come on man, we are all people here, (I hope, one poster before sounded like a Spambot...) forget if its tired or PC, lets have a fun friendly discussion. Namely Generalization vs Specifics? May I politely inquire to your favorite characters? ^_^ "
I'm not even going to bother trying to argue the difference between my pointing out how tiring it is there's always someone that has to point out how un-PC something is and complaining about people complaining.  As it's irrelevant to this topic.  And I'm not wasting my time if that's how you broke down my post.
 
However, having a discussion is EXACTLY why I came in here.  The title peaked my interest and I came here expecting a good discussion of such things.  Only to find it's not really about the title of the thread..but another complaint about Wonder Woman and how women are under-represented in comics.  The title doesn't match the content (past the first few sentences.)
 
It's nothing personal.  I'm speaking my mind.  Even if we were friends IRL I wouldn't not say what I feel.  Again nothing personal but it doesn't change facts.  This is a veiled post about women in comics, not bad writing or bad moments in comics in general.  Just pointing out, yet again, how Wonder Woman's new direction sucks and how Women aren't given there "just-do" in comics.
 
But whatever...I'm not explaining my post if someone can't understand that.
 
And @ whoever told me not to be mean to her...what the hell are you talking about? being mean? because I pointed out some flaw in the post or pointed out that what was typed doesn't really have anything to do with the thread title?  How is that being mean to her?  lol.... Or am I only to say nice things and tell her how great she is BECAUSE she's a woman?  is that how I am being mean? because I didn't agree or like something a "girl" wrote on the internets?  I see posts like that all the time on here..Babs can do no wrong because she has bewbs and the comic crowd finds her hawt? wow...just wow.
 
sorry babs..my bad.  yer cute.  so anything you say is golden...apparently.
Posted by MrDelicious

I want your MONEY! Your CONTINUITY!

 

I just commented on this lulzy Superman#708 in the Wonder Woman page. Yeah, because Superman inspires everyone with his radiance, incorruptible sense of justice, and yawn. And the kingdom come angle? Lulz. That's because Magog couldn't cling to his own indiscriminate sense of pragmatism. The same with the lot of the so called "hardcore" generation. When a hero can't accept responibilities for protecting a villain or killing that villain, they're no longer capable of wearing a cape and cowl. 
 
Not everyone should be held to the standards of Superman. The day when a vigilante says "Most people believe in your principles. I disagree, I'll never regret my path" or something along those lines, you know characters will step up of the shadow of the man of steel.

Posted by Joe Venom

When something bad is about to happen to a character I like

I remember actually shaking my head when I saw this image of  Ritchie Gilmore
letting the MU know that he won't stand for the Registration Act. Sure Ritchie was a hothead but hes not a drunkard idiot, did he really have to have a bottle of alcohol in his hand and slur his words, well I just knew the following images would not turn out good for the golden boy. 
 
Now don't get me wrong I'm not mad that he was taken down by Ironman, in fact it was because of this he made many more appearances in later books, Leader of an Initiative team, and even made it to Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 (not playable tho lulz) , this was just a moment that I shook my head to.
Posted by TheMess1428

I think that panel in Power Girl was written incorrectly. It's supposed to explain that since she was supposed to be related to Superman, she is supposed to have a shield on her chest just like him and Supergirl. But she didn't feel as though she lived up to the name and therefore is named Power Girl instead of Supergirl and has no symbol. Not because she simply couldn't think of one. 
 
And as for Wonder Woman, I blame JMS.

Posted by johnny_spam
@SC: I'd be fine if in canon Superman based his persona on some of the things that inspired him. Changing a character slightly or just tweaking them is good some bad things may happen but it is healthy and good for them. It's not like this one moment of this issue will change Wonder Woman fundamentally from here on.
Posted by MattDemers

I really think that Superman was used because he's the superhero. He's the prototype. It's natural that he's used as a role model, and the fact that he is affects him as well. 
 
I'm not sure I agree with you saying that it's an empowerment-related thing that Wondy and Peeg compare themselves to Superman; he just happens to be a close associate of both of them. I mean, there's a reason Supes/Bats/Wondy were in Trinity together. 
 
I mean, who else would Wonder Woman talk to? The ones you listed (PG, Oracle, and Donna) haven't had that much interaction with her lately; even Donna, who is closely intertwined with Diana's canon, has been off adventuring with the Titans and the new Justice League. There hasn't been that development there, or the interaction that would imply Donna having that moral impact on her life. Even when Donna was Wonder Woman, she told Diana that she didn't feel right in the role. There just wasn't that switch of respect.  
 
I see where you're coming from, but I just don't agree with it.

Posted by Decept-O

Just having a character written and portrayed in a way you really don't think is appropriate to that character definitely gets the ire up.  Real good topic.  So many choices, really.   
 
I think the overabudance of retcons really ticks me off more than anything.  Yet I realize the publishers do what they can to make stories and characters relevant to newer readers, I don't think it is always necessary to essentially "throw away" those things which define a character's well...err...umm.. character.
Edited by Mutant God

Luke Cage comparing the registration act to slavery
Posted by Mach

I hate when they push " Do over" button and  what happend before really did not matter at all , that makes shake my head  big time

Posted by SC
@norusdog said:
" @SC said:
" @norusdog said:
" Like said..I don't see the big deal behind wonderwoman.  Seems bitching for the sake of bitching.  But seriously, edit your title..it's misleading.  You start off like this is a post to talk about stupid moments in comics only to turn it into (yet again) a complaint about Wonder Woman and women role-models in general in comics  This isn't about "moments that make you shake your head" it's just another "comics are sexist and Wonder Woman sucks now" thread. MANY heroes say they were inspired by Superman and/or he's the one that holds everything together.  ever read Kingdom Come?  Superman takes off and the world goes to hell with a bunch of wolverine/batman vigilante wannabe's that have no problem killing..only by Superman returning were things set right  We get it.  You're not happy with the direction Wonder Woman has taken.  You make it clear as much as you can.  And this post is just a veiled stab at it again.  We get it.    Though I will give you one thing..the Power Girl thing was stupid.  Honestly though, and you can dismiss this as a bad excuse (but it doesn't change facts), if you want a truly inspirational female role-model....don't look at a medium dominated by males for that role-model.  It's not going to happen.  not to mention this politically correct bullshit is tiring...someone ALWAYS has to pick apart ANYTHING they can find to find something racist, sexist, or whatever else and complain about it. "
 In effect you post does not really do the exact same thing no? Its easy to throw the word PC around like its a bad thing, but say I accuse your post of actually being more PC?   You don't see the big deal, or you disagree that it should be a big deal? Difference. Don't always have to agree with what you see or understand.  You almost seem to miss the point I personally feel, its not about generalizations, its about specifics, Superman fans, never complain about his writing? There are no valid criticisms about any of their concerns ever, because it could be justified? Deciding what constitutes a truly inspirational female role-model also relative you must understand? For many there are such characters in bulk already. As in it has happened.   You prove your own point, but seem okay stating it despite it supposedly being tiring? (someone always has to pick apart anything, after you just pick apart a thread to... well I won't assume, but its to complain right?)   Come on man, we are all people here, (I hope, one poster before sounded like a Spambot...) forget if its tired or PC, lets have a fun friendly discussion. Namely Generalization vs Specifics? May I politely inquire to your favorite characters? ^_^ "
I'm not even going to bother trying to argue the difference between my pointing out how tiring it is there's always someone that has to point out how un-PC something is and complaining about people complaining.  As it's irrelevant to this topic.  And I'm not wasting my time if that's how you broke down my post. However, having a discussion is EXACTLY why I came in here.  The title peaked my interest and I came here expecting a good discussion of such things.  Only to find it's not really about the title of the thread..but another complaint about Wonder Woman and how women are under-represented in comics.  The title doesn't match the content (past the first few sentences.)  It's nothing personal.  I'm speaking my mind.  Even if we were friends IRL I wouldn't not say what I feel.  Again nothing personal but it doesn't change facts.  This is a veiled post about women in comics, not bad writing or bad moments in comics in general.  Just pointing out, yet again, how Wonder Woman's new direction sucks and how Women aren't given there "just-do" in comics.  But whatever...I'm not explaining my post if someone can't understand that.  And @ whoever told me not to be mean to her...what the hell are you talking about? being mean? because I pointed out some flaw in the post or pointed out that what was typed doesn't really have anything to do with the thread title?  How is that being mean to her?  lol.... Or am I only to say nice things and tell her how great she is BECAUSE she's a woman?  is that how I am being mean? because I didn't agree or like something a "girl" wrote on the internets?  I see posts like that all the time on here..Babs can do no wrong because she has bewbs and the comic crowd finds her hawt? wow...just wow.  sorry babs..my bad.  yer cute.  so anything you say is golden...apparently. "
 
You don't want to bother to argue? No argument, just actually stating your reasons would be perfectly fine, I see hypocrisy, you can feel free to correct me, maybe you think I am a hypocrite for thinking how tiring it is, for people to accuse other peoples opinions, thoughts and arguments as tired, tiring and PC ridden without actually showing how. I will fly to your house and build you a bed, lol, we can pick up tomorrow?  
 
To me, your just complaining about what you perceive as complaining. Its relevant to me also, because it suggest to me a bias and offsets most of your other points. You seem to take an antagonistic approach to this thread, I am curious why you just didn't go to the heart of the discussion instead of the extra content you brought.  
 
Do you get what I mean? You could reread your own first post and genuinely consider what was necessary and not necessary? Like you say, you seem tired, of what you state is continuous complaining about something you don't think warrants its? Is that roughly correct? You also seem relatively intelligent, so I can't believe you think that just because you think something is tired and has no merit it will cease to be brought up and discussed? So why use essentially the same generic criticism of such discussion when your own criticism can be levied right back at you. Except personally I am not tired. I am hyper and genuinely willing to delve headfirst into the intricacies of all that this thread entails and more lol, including what sounds like carry over from other threads?  
 
Moving on to the more direct subjects, my first post here was about Rogue and Sentry and I genuinely felt completely on topic. You fail to see that you had options here, some options having nothing to do with Wonder Woman at all? Yet you chose to discuss that? Other posters, I could quote them, skipped past talk of Wonder Woman subject, you could not have?  
 
I argue with conviction that the title does match the content. I appreciate you speaking your mind. I am glad its nothing personal, I am very small and fight like a diseased mouse, I don't want to take this outside no sir. lol 
 
I question your use of the word facts, seems more like an application of opinion. Veiled smeiled, it takes two to tango, aka this thread can be about about women in comics,  bad writing or bad moments in comics in general, or arguments of semantics, or arguments of clarifications, or discussion of characters trading off each other, or non powered female firefighters, its what you make of it, thread HAD,m discussed the variety of subjects I just hinted at. I feel so far, only really you feel that this is about women in comics. Supposedly you are tired of it though so I wondered why you didn't just ignore it and take up what you actually do want to discuss regardless of the veiled nature you suspect?  
 
You explained a lot, you still sound a bit more frustrated. Thats almost an ad hominem argument there, people can't understand your argument eh? Okay, I suppose its okay if I say you lack the ability to understand this thread hence your ill made argument? Now thats out of the way back to square one?  
 
Wait Babs is a woman? You must not know the rules of the internet my friend. NO GIRLS ON THE INTERNET. Trust me lol 
  
I think what the other poster meant, although I think their approach could have used some work, is that you sorta of give off the impression you are brining baggage to this thread? You actively chose to bite the "bait" of this thread because again, heart of the matter you think is a thread in disguise? Why not just not bite? Swim away or throw out a non woman, non Wonder Woman, moment that made you personally shake your head? instead of flying hard and fast with accusations? Correct or not does it matter? Alot of posters on this thread bring emotion and bias to a thread, so why aren't you picking on them? Is it because you might display some personal interest/bias here and emotion too?  
 
We can just forget all of above cause I would like to know an example of what you think is a genuine head shaker in comics? Why can't we discuss that instead? 
Posted by SC
@johnny spam said:
" @SC: I'd be fine if in canon Superman based his persona on some of the things that inspired him. Changing a character slightly or just tweaking them is good some bad things may happen but it is healthy and good for them. It's not like this one moment of this issue will change Wonder Woman fundamentally from here on. "
 
I agree with your sentiment. I am a long time comic fan lol, I learned to deal with stuff i don't like ages ago. lol. DC is trying to reinvent her for a bunch of new readers though. Comics is failing now, because potential new readers have a lot more choice now in their entertainment and fiction. Why should DC expect them to flock to Wonder Woman, when over in Lady Mechnika the title female character is kicking ass and looks up to no one, except herself (at least what I got from the 0 issue) Wonder Woman and more important writers writing her, need. To. Bring. It. 
 
This one moment won't affect Wonder Woman fundamentally from here, correct, but I can't help but feel you may miss the point. So what If Thor beat Superman in the crossover right? Won't fundamentally effect Supermans character right? Except things aren't that clear cut. We can go into more specifics if you wish. I feel like you are tackling this from a different angle to me, and others? I respect your thoughts, but you switch a bit between personal justification (you would be fine if...) then you switch to interpersonal logic elsewhere to justify certain actions. Not a bad thing, but it means you skip some of the actual argument. I hope I am clarifying it slowly? There is not much I am actually disagreeing with you about. 
Posted by achilles100

Well, Diana and PG have had recent interaction with each other's fists and feet; plus PG seems likely to go looking for Diana very soon now in connection with the Generation Lost/Power Girl story.
 
But as to Power Girl herself, Johns had done a lot of good stuff, but he can't write Power Girl.  Likely comes from not really liking her all that much.  Regardless of the reason, he never really understood the character.  Historically, Power Girl would never have sat there literally crying to Superman about that.  She would have simply gone out and tried to punch her way through her worries.  She was never introspective or whiny like that.  With PG, what you saw was what you got, brash, bold, confident to the point of being arrogant.  She's always thought too much of herself to do that.  But then that was typical of her treatment during the Johns run in JSA, regardless of all the other good things he did there.  Winick, Simone, or Trautmann have all gotten her personality down better. 

Posted by Om1kron

so image comics and marvel comics are out of the spotlight for sara's shake your head spotlight...   
 
haha DC we are dissapoint! 

Posted by AdlinShadow

This is completely true, the only thing that ruins a good comic book over something stupid like a girl adding suggestive themes to her costume

Posted by TheCrowbar

Haha I just posted the other day a fairly similar blog. Great minds I guess.  As a fan of Power Girl the hole thing was really dumb I agree.
 
But the Wonder Woman thing, it would be kind of nice once Wonder Woman restores herself she returns to Superman to reinforce his beliefs you know coming full circle, he inspired her and she reaffirms his faith.

Posted by manofsteel42

Good Articale but I kinda like WW new costume, she looks new and I think some characters have to reinvent themselves (at least for a while costume wise). I hope they change batman/supermans suit for a while so we can see somthing new.  
Superman should use this look for a while (yes I know thats superboys old costume but it looks cool and new) Give WW new look a chance, somtimes change is good!...somtimes

 
 
 
OR

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