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Best Battles in Comic History: TDKR Batman vs. Superman

Come see why Batman and Superman's showdown in THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS is easily one of the most iconic battles in comic book history.

Every week, we take some time to reflect on all of the awesome fights in the latest round of new comics. Why limit our praise to just the brand new brawls, though? Why not highlight some of the epic fights in comic book history? Well, ladies and gentlemen, that's exactly what we're going to do with this all-new monthly segment. And, when it comes to kicking-off a segment about iconic book fights, the first pick was blatantly obvious: Batman vs. Superman in THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS.

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In 1986, Frank Miller hit the world with the four-issue mini-series, THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS. Written and illustrated by Miller, the story revealed a bleak future for Batman and Superman. Wayne, who's now in his fifties, has hung up the cowl and Superman's essentially become a weapon for the U.S. President to utilize. When Wayne decides to finally step back into the cowl (and even accept a new Robin), the powers that be aren't too pleased with the development. Ultimately, the President orders Clark to put the Dark Knight down and what follows is without question one of the most classic battles to ever take place within the pages of a comic. Who would have thought the signature Batman/Superman fight would take place in a non-canon book?

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Upon being ordered by the President to take down his former ally, Superman reaches out to Wayne instead of getting the job done right away. Considering their decades of history, it's the respectful and right thing to do. Using his heat vision, he writes one simple word in the ground near Bruce: "where?" The Caped Crusader looks up and replies, "Crime Alley." The area's evacuated by the military so the two can battle without any collateral damage, but Superman made one critical mistake: he gave Bruce prep time. Now, we all know who's going to take this fight in a random encounter, but Kal isn't about to face your ordinary version of Batman. Instead, Bruce shows up to the fight sporting one heck of an armor and a whole lot of new toys. Utilizing his weapons and even the environment, he's able to give Clark all kinds of trouble when the fight kicks-off. It's worth noting this future version of Superman isn't quite up to par with what we're used to -- one nuclear warhead nearly killed him.

Sure, a slugfest between these two under Frank Miller is all kinds of good stuff, but what makes this battle particularly great is the fact it shows off Batman's tactical mind and resourceful nature. Even with all of his tech, Wayne knows he's not winning a Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots style encounter with Kal-El. Because of that, this fight relies purely on Bruce's wit and the plan he crafted. Naturally, the details weren't revealed before the big showdown, so it's a glorious experience to watch it all play out.

Bruce uses every tool possible and it softens the alien just enough to the point where a regular strike (from a super-strong armor, of course) can faze Supes. Sonics, acid, electric -- Bruce unleashes it all against Clark. The offensive is definitely felt by the Kryptonian, yet it still pales compared to the damage the powerhouse sends back his way. With only a couple of hits, the Caped Crusader suffers three broken ribs and a crushed wrist. Bruce is giving it his all, but there's just no standing up to a hit from Superman, no matter how advanced your armor may be.

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All good things must come to an end and the fight's conclusion is quite legendary. Seeing as it's such a fantastic and memorable read, we don't want to spoil it for you in case you haven't checked it out yet. That said, if you haven't already read Miller's story, we strongly recommend you jump into it as soon as possible. Seriously, it's often considered one of the top must read Batman stories for a reason, people. Plus, it's pretty much the least you can do to prepare for 2015's Batman vs. Superman, right?

201 Comments

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k4tzm4n

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Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@leokearon: yup, you're welcome to make suggestions for future editions of the segment.

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GeekOfKrypton

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This fight was staged! cuz there is no way that Bruce wins. He was just wearing a metal suit! superman is still super fast, Batman was tethered to a lamp post! LMAO! Come on ever heard of heat vision? that could have severed the link to the power source and read what Superman said in the script...one punch and he broke three ribs, he punched thru the armor. anyway...

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WALLY WEST vs. ZOOM from Blitz for the next BBiCH!

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Sovereign91001

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Edited By Sovereign91001

My feelings on TDKR and by extension this fight: Iconic; yes, overrated; hell yes.

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Extremis

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Gotta love Batvine..

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Onemoreposter

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Edited By Onemoreposter

@2cool4fun said:

I always find the fight confusing

SPOILER:

The ending has batman saying he won, but yet superman was barely fighting and even on the picture says "I just broke three of your ribs" the dude is trying his hardest to hold back yet batman who passed out ( even though it was on his own doing ) won? I never understood that...

After Ollie fires the kryptonite arrow Clark is completely at Bruces mercy. Yes, Kal held back, but in the end, Bruce could have killed Superman if he wanted to.

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LyraFay

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I like how this fight still has an impact when Batman and Superman are translated into other mediums. In The Batman, Bruce used a robotic armour suit to take down Superman when Lex Luthor and Poison Ivy put him under mind control, complete with Robin playing the Green Arrow role to take Clark down. Then in Batman: The Brave and The Bold, Batman wears a armoured suit to take down Superman after being taken over red kryptonite by Luthor again, the areas is even cleared by the army when it happen. So it may be not liked by people but its impact is still felt through the other mediums DC place them in.

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SaintWildcard

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This fight made me hate Batman.

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BWANASIMBA

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@onemoreposter:

That image looks to me more like his heart gave out right before he had the opportunity to finish him off. That said, it's a good story, although it still bothers me how weak Superman was in the story both in terms of power level and how he was written. One nuke nearly killed him? Even other weak versions would laugh that off. Golden Age Supes laughed off nukes at the end of the 40's (granted, he'd been developed by the end of the 40's into the more standard or classic version of Superman we all know and love). John Byrne's "weak" Superman could handle a few nukes before getting knocked out. The only version of Supes that might be weaker than this is the animated series version.

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z3ro180

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V_Scarlotte_Rose

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Grey56

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So it's cool to hate TDKR now? Good to know, hipsters, good to know.

I love you for saying this. Thank you, sir.

@k4tzm4n: I didn't even have finish this article to know I agreed. I saw the title and emphatically concur. Few scenes have had a more profound effect on me than Bruce fighting Clark to a standstill on the same street his parents were killed - under the same streetlamp.

It embodies everything about heroes; fighting against an impossible foe for causes which few may believe in. It's about facing a possible death with honor - even when fighting against a friend. It's about so many things which are otherwise lost on many - a battle of nuance when set against the backdrop of the Michael Bay world we now live in. I could say more but won't.

What I will ask you, @k4tzm4n is this; do you remember the scene in the Infinity Gauntlet, in issue 4 - where Captain America stands to face Thanos? It is one of the other scenes which I cannot forget. For similar reasons.

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Pokergeist

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I always find the fight confusing

SPOILER:

The ending has batman saying he won, but yet superman was barely fighting and even on the picture says "I just broke three of your ribs" the dude is trying his hardest to hold back yet batman who passed out ( even though it was on his own doing ) won? I never understood that...

Superman clearly lost when he was hit by the Kryptonite Gas.

@vegandiet: I'm just saying it's pretty ridiculous how the vast majority of comments here are negative, with even some people saying they have never read it (or only flicked through it in HMV, seen the animated movie etc) and still jumping on the bandwagon.

Personally, TDKR was the first comic that I read (so I avoided any hype or overhype) and loved every panel of it so obviously I'm going to be biased and defend it. Remember though, it's overhyped because a great many people DO love it.

As for the art, it doesn't bother me and if anything I prefer it to the Jim Lee style everyone is now imitating in the mainstream comic book industry. But art's subjective and all that.

Obviously everyone has their own opinion that they are entitled to and if you want to hate TDKR then fine, it would be arrogant, narrow minded and even pretentious of me or anyone else to try and change your mind. However, advising new readers to avoid The Dark Knight Returns which has been suggested by some posters here is laughable, it is considered one of the great Comic books for a reason.

Agreed. I love Both this book and Dark Knight strikes again. They are very interesting stories and outtakes on a What If situation.

Also the whole fight is here.

Batman clearly out smarted Superman.

Here Superman loses again to Batman's prep and planing.

Frank Miller, as insane he is now and days, views superman the same way I do. Superman is a dumb brute who uses superior physicals over tactics almost every time.

Superman fans will argue, but not everyone sees Supes in the same light as they do, Frank Miller and myself see Supes like the way he is portrayed here. Dumb.

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Pokergeist

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@k4tzm4n: Good job on this, one of my favorite battles of all time. My friend who is a Superman even loved and remember this battle. The Movie version was also superbly done that my Son enjoys.

Good pick.

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Wolverine008

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Edited By Wolverine008

@cadencev2:

Dumb.

You do know that Superman is a genius and learns things at an extremely enhanced rate, right? How does that constitute being "dumb"?

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YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

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@cadencev2:

Dumb.

You do know that Superman is a genius and learns things at an extremely enhanced rate, right? How does that constitute being "dumb"?

To be honest I think Superman is too busy saving the world 24/7 to study LOL.

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Wolverine008

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@wolverine08 said:

@cadencev2:

Dumb.

You do know that Superman is a genius and learns things at an extremely enhanced rate, right? How does that constitute being "dumb"?

To be honest I think Superman is too busy saving the world 24/7 to study LOL.

Doesn't change the fact that he is ridiculously smart. I'm pretty sure @deranged_midget_ or @dccomicsrule2011 could better expound on Superman's intellect than I would.

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Edited By Wolverine008
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@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@wolverine08 said:

@cadencev2:

Dumb.

You do know that Superman is a genius and learns things at an extremely enhanced rate, right? How does that constitute being "dumb"?

To be honest I think Superman is too busy saving the world 24/7 to study LOL.

Doesn't change the fact that he is ridiculously smart. I'm pretty sure @deranged_midget_ or @dccomicsrule2011 could better expound on Superman's intellect than I would.

Oh yeah he is definitely smart, but, like Flash, they aren't the smartest person in the planet because they have to constantly save people. If they tried they would probably be smart as Batman in an entire day if they wanted to.

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Pokergeist

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@cadencev2:

Dumb.

You do know that Superman is a genius and learns things at an extremely enhanced rate, right? How does that constitute being "dumb"?

Yes, and yes. Superman is super intelligent.

However when he fights, its rather dumb brute fighting. He never uses half his powers, and he seems to get outsmarted alot by Lex Luther, Batman, Ultrahumanite, ect.

He simply comes off dumb.

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Deranged Midget

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Yes, and yes. Superman is super intelligent.

However when he fights, its rather dumb brute fighting. He never uses half his powers, and he seems to get outsmarted alot by Lex Luther, Batman, Ultrahumanite, ect.

He simply comes off dumb.

I don't know which comics you've been reading mate but that's about as far from the truth as you can get. Superman constantly has to outsmart his enemies, considering that a large majority of them have powers he simply can't deal with, are equal to his own or simply surpass him in every way.

Specifying TDKR, Superman was written in such a sense to highlight Batman's impressive capabilities. Judging Superman's capabilities based off his performance in arguably one of Batman's most popular books is severely low-balling the character.

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Edited By kaiklown

@dcguy: This so hard. I really hope they are not sticking with that name (batman vs superman sounds awfully boring dumb name for a film). I dont want these two characters fighting thats not what its about they are the worlds finest.

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RBT

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Liked the one in Hush better.

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patrat18

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Edited By patrat18

Agreed.

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@cadencev2 said:

Yes, and yes. Superman is super intelligent.

However when he fights, its rather dumb brute fighting. He never uses half his powers, and he seems to get outsmarted alot by Lex Luther, Batman, Ultrahumanite, ect.

He simply comes off dumb.

I don't know which comics you've been reading mate but that's about as far from the truth as you can get. Superman constantly has to outsmart his enemies, considering that a large majority of them have powers he simply can't deal with, are equal to his own or simply surpass him in every way.

Specifying TDKR, Superman was written in such a sense to highlight Batman's impressive capabilities. Judging Superman's capabilities based off his performance in arguably one of Batman's most popular books is severely low-balling the character.

Exactly. I would post scans of some of them but honestly, I'm far to lazy. *shrugs*

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SandMan_

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And thus we have the comic that ruined Superman. But hey it's cool cause Batman, right?

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Deranged Midget

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Exactly. I would post scans of some of them but honestly, I'm far to lazy. *shrugs*

Hah, as am I :P

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remynisce

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I'm guilty, i haven't read the comics, but man, how many times this has to be put on, i mean how lame will superman be?? I don't get how batman managed to punch supe in the face?? is he that fast or superman too slow to anticipate?? With or without kryptonite, it's not a big trouble for clark, from a distance he can disable Batman using heat vision, batman writers are putting too much credit to him.

How strong is that amped batsuit anyway?? Superman is a speed-blitz why don't use that to his advantage?? Clearly superman vs batman is written by writers who disregards superman's abilities, and those elements that he used to fought powerful enemies. And to almost lose to Bruce that is mighty lame.

Batman has limits, don't over exaggerate his capabilities. I'm not a Superman fanboy and not a hater of Batman, but please be consistent, Clark won vs Darkseid but loses to Bat? c'mon.

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daltonmunnal

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I am on the side that this is a terrible comic. Guess that makes me a hipster.

The artwork is veritably the worst comic art I've ever seen. Bruce and Clark are both ridiculously out of character to the point where there's no point in this even being a Batman/Superman comic. Bruce's ability to survive this fight goes way beyond what I can logically accept from a non super powered character, Batman or otherwise. And worst of all, as someone noted earlier, the ending makes no sense at all, and yet became legendary. I don't understand how getting your ass kicked, claiming that you won, and then faking your death, somehow qualifies as winning. And now this nonsensical fight is referenced every time somebody wants to claim that Batman can never lose a fight because he even beat Superman (despite that fact that Batman gets whooped by comparatively low powered villains in pretty much every story arch before coming back with a strategy to win later on).

Call me a hipster, but reading this was a genuinely unbearable experience, despite loving every thing else I've read from Frank, such as Year One, 300, Sin City, and Wolverine.

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DoomDoomDoom

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I always find the fight confusing

SPOILER:

The ending has batman saying he won, but yet superman was barely fighting and even on the picture says "I just broke three of your ribs" the dude is trying his hardest to hold back yet batman who passed out ( even though it was on his own doing ) won? I never understood that...

I always assumed Batman is saying he won because he proved Superman was a literal tool in the hands of the government. Also, Batman's rule breaking behavior had forced Superman to "kill" him.

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So it's cool to hate TDKR now? Good to know, hipsters, good to know.

Ya, it seems so.

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I did like the movie, Batman was boss and human and not some wanked character like most people do to him. Anyway, the comic, although it looks classic and must be nostalgic to some people, i wouldn't find it as epic as the animated movie.

That being said, there are better, more epic fights in comics. IMO, Mikaboshi and Chaos War Hercules is one of the best. As well as Daken vs. Punisher and Hulk vs. Skaar. On the DC side, Superman vs Doomsday in DoS and Sinestro vs. Mongul.

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Pokergeist

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Edited By Pokergeist

@dccomicsrule2011:

@deranged_midget said:

@cadencev2 said:

Yes, and yes. Superman is super intelligent.

However when he fights, its rather dumb brute fighting. He never uses half his powers, and he seems to get outsmarted alot by Lex Luther, Batman, Ultrahumanite, ect.

He simply comes off dumb.

I don't know which comics you've been reading mate but that's about as far from the truth as you can get. Superman constantly has to outsmart his enemies, considering that a large majority of them have powers he simply can't deal with, are equal to his own or simply surpass him in every way.

Specifying TDKR, Superman was written in such a sense to highlight Batman's impressive capabilities. Judging Superman's capabilities based off his performance in arguably one of Batman's most popular books is severely low-balling the character.

Superman by feats and with his power set could and should beat most foes in DC universe with minimal effort. Yet he fights like a brick half the time forgetting his Heat Vision that can cut moons in half, his FTL Speed Blitzes, Freeze Breath, ect. Most often he simply fights at the enemies pace like a brick.

Strikes me dumb.

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Wolverine008

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Edited By Wolverine008

@cadencev2 said:

@dccomicsrule2011:

@deranged_midget said:

@cadencev2 said:

Yes, and yes. Superman is super intelligent.

However when he fights, its rather dumb brute fighting. He never uses half his powers, and he seems to get outsmarted alot by Lex Luther, Batman, Ultrahumanite, ect.

He simply comes off dumb.

I don't know which comics you've been reading mate but that's about as far from the truth as you can get. Superman constantly has to outsmart his enemies, considering that a large majority of them have powers he simply can't deal with, are equal to his own or simply surpass him in every way.

Specifying TDKR, Superman was written in such a sense to highlight Batman's impressive capabilities. Judging Superman's capabilities based off his performance in arguably one of Batman's most popular books is severely low-balling the character.

Superman by feats and with his power set could and should beat most foes in DC universe with minimal effort. Yet he fights like a brick half the time forgetting his Heat Vision that can cut moons in half, his FTL Speed Blitzes, Freeze Breath, ect. Most often he simply fights at the enemies pace like a brick.

Strikes me dumb.

Have you ever stop to think that the power of plot stops Superman from being as dominant as he could be? Can't have much of a story if Superman is nigh invincible, and finishes everything with ease like he could. Kind of like how Thor doesn't use the plethora of abilities Mjonir grants him to end fights in seconds.

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k4tzm4n

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k4tzm4n  Moderator

@extremis said:

Gotta love Batvine..

Totes.

The offensive is definitely felt by the Kryptonian, yet it still pales compared to the damage the powerhouse sends back his way. With only a couple of hits, the Caped Crusader suffers three broken ribs and a crushed wrist. Bruce is giving it his all, but there's just no standing up to a hit from Superman, no matter how advanced your armor may be.

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Extremis

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Edited By Extremis

@k4tzm4n said:

@extremis said:

Gotta love Batvine..

Totes.

The offensive is definitely felt by the Kryptonian, yet it still pales compared to the damage the powerhouse sends back his way. With only a couple of hits, the Caped Crusader suffers three broken ribs and a crushed wrist. Bruce is giving it his all, but there's just no standing up to a hit from Superman, no matter how advanced your armor may be.

No Caption Provided

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k4tzm4n

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k4tzm4n  Moderator

@extremis said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@extremis said:

Gotta love Batvine..

Totes.

The offensive is definitely felt by the Kryptonian, yet it still pales compared to the damage the powerhouse sends back his way. With only a couple of hits, the Caped Crusader suffers three broken ribs and a crushed wrist. Bruce is giving it his all, but there's just no standing up to a hit from Superman, no matter how advanced your armor may be.

No Caption Provided

Whether you like the fight or not is 500% irrelevant. There's simply no disputing the place it holds in comic book history and because of that, it's an obvious choice for kicking-off this segment.

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Extremis

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Edited By Extremis

@k4tzm4n said:

@extremis said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@extremis said:

Gotta love Batvine..

Totes.

The offensive is definitely felt by the Kryptonian, yet it still pales compared to the damage the powerhouse sends back his way. With only a couple of hits, the Caped Crusader suffers three broken ribs and a crushed wrist. Bruce is giving it his all, but there's just no standing up to a hit from Superman, no matter how advanced your armor may be.

No Caption Provided

Whether you like the fight or not is 500% irrelevant. There's simply no disputing the place it holds in comic book history and because of that, it's an obvious choice for kicking-off this segment.

If my opinion is irrelevant why bother responding then?

Also, not that it matters but I love the fight in question so you should relax.

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k4tzm4n

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Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@extremis: I can assure you I'm just about as relaxed I can get. This chair is in full recline mode.

When I see someone remark mockingly to the article -- a post which seems to take a jab at the selection -- you can bet I'm going to remark on it.

Unless I missed the memo and gotta love "batvine" was written in super serious font and not lolsarcasm font? Seeing as most comments are bashing on Batman, it's more than safe to assume the remark is directed at the article and not the community.

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Extremis

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@k4tzm4n said:

@extremis: I can assure you I'm just about as relaxed I can get. This chair is in full recline mode.

When I see someone remark mockingly to the article -- a post which seems to take a jab at the selection -- you can bet I'm going to remark on it.

Unless I missed the memo and gotta love "batvine" was written in super serious font and not lolsarcasm font?

You take too much offense. I wasn't mocking your article. It was just a joke about comicvine in general.

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k4tzm4n

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k4tzm4n  Moderator

@extremis said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@extremis: I can assure you I'm just about as relaxed I can get. This chair is in full recline mode.

When I see someone remark mockingly to the article -- a post which seems to take a jab at the selection -- you can bet I'm going to remark on it.

Unless I missed the memo and gotta love "batvine" was written in super serious font and not lolsarcasm font?

You take too much offense. I wasn't mocking your article. It was just a joke about comicvine in general.

Check the edit, foo!

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Extremis

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@k4tzm4n: it was just a joke. Wasn't even directed at your article so don't take it personally.

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k4tzm4n

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k4tzm4n  Moderator

@cadencev2: Thanks!

@grey56: Thank you! Honestly, it has been quite some time since I've read Infinity Gauntlet.

I did like the movie, Batman was boss and human and not some wanked character like most people do to him. Anyway, the comic, although it looks classic and must be nostalgic to some people, i wouldn't find it as epic as the animated movie.

That being said, there are better, more epic fights in comics. IMO, Mikaboshi and Chaos War Hercules is one of the best. As well as Daken vs. Punisher and Hulk vs. Skaar. On the DC side, Superman vs Doomsday in DoS and Sinestro vs. Mongul.

Well, fear not 'cause this is just the fist one. Going to highlight a different fight each month.

@sandman_ said:

And thus we have the comic that ruined Superman. But hey it's cool cause Batman, right?

Ehhhh. I agree his personality is bad in this and his not nearly as powerful (NOT THE NUKES! NOT THE NUKESSSSS!), but I wouldn't say it ruined the guy. Despite being significantly weaker, it's still crystal clear he coulda wiped the floor with Bruce if he truly wanted to. Word on the street is a movie ruined him, though :D

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homicidalmaniac

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I like the book,but the art is ugly and Frank Miller does not like Superman.

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k4tzm4n

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@dcguy said:

This fight still impress me , the story started really good, then turned down (I still don't like the third issue) but finale is exellent. On the other hand making movie based on this story is stupid idea. Miller really screwed up Superman , it's acceptable for an alternate timeline story (Way more better than old man Logan which ruined Hulk) but for a live action movie it's not a good source expecially for Superman. I don't want a vs movie about my favorite two Superhero , I want a movie about world's finest.

As of right now, there's nothing to confirm 2015's movie is based on this story. It may draw elements from it, but it developing or concluding with a team-up is far more likely. They're universe building, after all. Sorry if that final line made you think otherwise.

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Onemoreposter

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@onemoreposter:

That image looks to me more like his heart gave out right before he had the opportunity to finish him off. That said, it's a good story, although it still bothers me how weak Superman was in the story both in terms of power level and how he was written. One nuke nearly killed him? Even other weak versions would laugh that off. Golden Age Supes laughed off nukes at the end of the 40's (granted, he'd been developed by the end of the 40's into the more standard or classic version of Superman we all know and love). John Byrne's "weak" Superman could handle a few nukes before getting knocked out. The only version of Supes that might be weaker than this is the animated series version.

Can you show a single story where Superman in the 40 shrugs off a nuclear bomb??? Also, a nuclear bomb in the 40 is IN NO WAY equivalent to a nuclear bomb in the mid 80s. All nuclear armaments are created equal.

Also, I'd like to see a scan of Byrne's "handling a few nukes", because I can't remember it ever happening.

Oh, and here's a page I left out earlier of Batman completely owning Superman after he grabs the Kryptonite arrow.

No Caption Provided

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deactivated-64332b810a025

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@cadencev2 said:

@dccomicsrule2011:

@deranged_midget said:

@cadencev2 said:

Yes, and yes. Superman is super intelligent.

However when he fights, its rather dumb brute fighting. He never uses half his powers, and he seems to get outsmarted alot by Lex Luther, Batman, Ultrahumanite, ect.

He simply comes off dumb.

I don't know which comics you've been reading mate but that's about as far from the truth as you can get. Superman constantly has to outsmart his enemies, considering that a large majority of them have powers he simply can't deal with, are equal to his own or simply surpass him in every way.

Specifying TDKR, Superman was written in such a sense to highlight Batman's impressive capabilities. Judging Superman's capabilities based off his performance in arguably one of Batman's most popular books is severely low-balling the character.

Superman by feats and with his power set could and should beat most foes in DC universe with minimal effort. Yet he fights like a brick half the time forgetting his Heat Vision that can cut moons in half, his FTL Speed Blitzes, Freeze Breath, ect. Most often he simply fights at the enemies pace like a brick.

Strikes me dumb.

Have you ever stop to think that the power of plot stops Superman from being as dominant as he could be? Can't have much of a story if Superman is nigh invincible, and finishes everything with ease like he could. Kind of like how Thor doesn't use the plethora of abilities Mjonir grants him to end fights in seconds.

If he doesn't finish everything with ease what makes you think he could? If we read Superman stories under the impression that at any time he could easily end it nothing makes any sense. He lets innocent lives die simply because he does not feel like finishing a fight quick?

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Wolverine008

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@theocitylegend: I don't think Superman can finish everything easily. He has limits and numerous people who are more powerful than him. I was just noting that the moments in stories where he doesn't speed blitz to kingdom come, etc. are due to the sake of plot.

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Pokergeist

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Edited By Pokergeist
@wolverine08 said:
@cadencev2 said:

@dccomicsrule2011:

@deranged_midget said:
@cadencev2 said:

Yes, and yes. Superman is super intelligent.

However when he fights, its rather dumb brute fighting. He never uses half his powers, and he seems to get outsmarted alot by Lex Luther, Batman, Ultrahumanite, ect.

He simply comes off dumb.

I don't know which comics you've been reading mate but that's about as far from the truth as you can get. Superman constantly has to outsmart his enemies, considering that a large majority of them have powers he simply can't deal with, are equal to his own or simply surpass him in every way.

Specifying TDKR, Superman was written in such a sense to highlight Batman's impressive capabilities. Judging Superman's capabilities based off his performance in arguably one of Batman's most popular books is severely low-balling the character.

Superman by feats and with his power set could and should beat most foes in DC universe with minimal effort. Yet he fights like a brick half the time forgetting his Heat Vision that can cut moons in half, his FTL Speed Blitzes, Freeze Breath, ect. Most often he simply fights at the enemies pace like a brick.

Strikes me dumb.

Have you ever stop to think that the power of plot stops Superman from being as dominant as he could be? Can't have much of a story if Superman is nigh invincible, and finishes everything with ease like he could. Kind of like how Thor doesn't use the plethora of abilities Mjonir grants him to end fights in seconds.

If he doesn't finish everything with ease what makes you think he could? If we read Superman stories under the impression that at any time he could easily end it nothing makes any sense. He lets innocent lives die simply because he does not feel like finishing a fight quick?

That is the problem I have with Mainstream comic fans in general.

In the Invincible Comics, Mark uses his powers 100% and he either wins or loses. He consistently is not held back by plot, and thus a good consistent fighter.

Spawn uses his powers for many easy wins in his books, and get challenged in other ways. Whether morals or consequences, but still easy win fights.

Superman is held by plot, so what? That does not change the fact by feats he fights dumb regardless the plot excuse. He often fights dumb.

Its simple fact of consistency.