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The Dark Knight has been voted by the community as our latest Character of the Month. Sure, that means we'll highlight his best covers and do much more to praise the popular character, but it also means we're going to put his abilities to the test in the Battle of the Week. His first opponent was the latest version of Star-Lord and Batman was able to earn a hard-fought victory. But now he faces... the Shredder! Sorry, couldn't resist that one again. So, could Bruce Wayne earn a majority of wins over the deadly leader of the Foot Clan if these two went head-to-head in a dojo? According to the voters, the answer is yes.
The Caped Crusader earned 61% of the votes and Oroku Saki received 33%. 5% thought this encounter has the potential to go either way. So, why'd Batman win? You know, aside from "because he's Batman!"
First and foremost, it's worth noting that Shredder is undefeated in his universe and recently held his own against the heavily armed Krang (the ninja withstood a barrage of explosions!). However, he doesn't bring as much versatility as Batman does to this fight and a possible display of arrogance could give the DC hero the opening he needs to take the victory.
A hand-to-hand showing between these two would be a remarkable thing to witness, and while Shredder can do some cutting and stabbing damage with his blades, Batman simply has more options available. His grappling line could be used to trip Oroku, he could distract him with a batarang and then follow though with another device, so on and so on. Even if the equipment itself doesn't deliver the final strike, it could be used as a diversion and give Bruce an opening to land some effective strikes. It would be an epic fight and a magnificent display of skill as these two go at it, but as formidable and lethal as Shredder may be, Batman simply has the skill to compete in close quarters combat, a keen tactical mind, and a whole lot of variety available in his belt and even on his costume. If you've been reading the IDW series then you know this won't be a cakewalk for either character, but ultimately, the people have decided to side with Batman and it is an understandable win.
Now, before you potentially post a comment along the lines of "what a surprise," please keep in mind this segment isn't about the outcome, it's about the fun. You're supposed to have a good time speculating what it would be like if these two were forced to fight, chat with your peers about it, and realize that it would be quite awesome to watch, even if you're confident one of them is guaranteed to take the win. Sure, Batman took a strong majority of the votes, but we just hope you had a blast pondering about these two duking it out and it was great to see many recognize this would be a hugely entertaining battle. And if you're tired of Batman winning, we have an idea: suggest a fight you'd like to see! If it's balance and not made blatantly to stomp Batman (vs. Galactus), we'll take it into consideration. Last but not least, thanks to everyone who took the time to vote and share your thoughts! Now, let's see what the community and one staff writer had to say about this melee!
"Very tough and close battle @k4tzm4n.
- Though Batman's bulletproof armor is formidable, it has shown a weakness to sharp weapons, and this what the Shredder is all about. Shredder's blades are capable of damaging the Bat's armor, and add in his immense skill in using them, Batman isn't leaving this battle with an un-scrapped armor.
- Though it's very rare not give Batman the advantage in martial arts, and while they are pretty close, I have to give a very slight edge to Shredder because in this depiction of the character in the stories, he has several lifetimes of experience and in all of those he has reached a high ranking level as a Ninja Assassin. Now, centuries of skill have shown not be enough to beat Batman, as he has consistantly defeated Ra's Al Ghul in intense yet decisive battles but the difference is that Ra's, despite his age, has never reached the level Shredder has achieved. Shredder is capable of fighting the Turtles all at the same time. The TMNT are all skilled martial artists and they are depicted as low level supers, and Shredder has managed not only to hold them off, but also decisively beat them, sometimes with ease. And he's also had back and forth battles with Master Splinter, whose skill is well documented. He even recently managed to give Krang a tough fight without his armor.
You would think that by listing these advantages, I'm giving Shredder the W, but actually, I'm giving it to the bat and there's 3 reasons for that:
- Gadgets. Though Shredder can damage Bat's armor, so can Batman, but it's actually easier for Bruce. Shredder's armor can take the blows of the Turtles, but it isn't as durable as Bats' and it will crumble at the various explosives the Bat carries. Bats can even force Shredder to remove his helmet by attaching a miniature explosive or even damage it, thereby exposing his face, and leaving him more vulnerable to deadly attacks.
- Durability. Batman's endurance is well documented. The guy's just too stubborn to go down. He'll never give up. He has taken punishment that will make others in the comics give up. But Batman's combination of armor, resourcefulness and strong will will prevent him from succumbing to the Shredder's wrath. Though Shredder is no slouch in that department, capable of taking blows from the turtles and Krang, but Batman simply outlasts him.
- Shredder's arrogance. After a back and forth battle, Shredder will probably see Batman as a worthy adversary, but he'll also want Batman to concede that Shredder is the superior fighter. He'll try to take his time, try to punish Batman and this will be his downfall. Batman is known to squeeze out a victory at the last second. He'll let Shredder get in close, and then use some gadgets to change the game. He can either throw acid in his face that can blind him, attach an overheat device that can melt through the armor, ambush him with a knock out gas, catch him off guard with a tranq dart from one of his gauntlets, use his suit's electricity to stun him, among others. All these elements will give Batman the chance he needs to land the finishing blow.
Batman wins 6/10."
"This is a great battle. I know Batman has the edge in gear, but assuming he doesn't grab his anti-Shredder repellent spray right from the get go, then this would make a great battle from two highly skilled martial artists.
I can understand why there are so many comments for Batman "stomping". It is common knowledge that Batman is among the elite when it comes to martial artist abilities, but I really believe Shredder can match these abilities, but do so with a slight edge because he would be willing to mortally wound and even kill Batman, where Batman will do almost anything he can to prevent a death by his own hands. Shredder's bladed gauntlets turn every one of his strikes into a deadly attack, which he is more then willing to use to end a battle quickly.
Shredder has also demonstrated that he constantly reads his opponents tactics while fighting. In Shredder's feature from the Villains Micro-series, we were fortunate enough to get to read Shredder's dialogue explaining what was going through his head during a battle with warriors who have passed on into the after-life. Shredder took on an entire army of experienced warriors on his own, for each warrior, he was able to instantly recognize their fighting tendencies, and exploit their weaknesses, and avoid their strengths. This is going to be very important in a fight against someone with the skill Batman has. It's always important to avoid an infamous Bat-Kick.
Shredder has also proven himself to be Splinter's equal, which helps support that Shredder can do more then just beat other ninjas. In Splinter's fight with the turtles, he wore a mask to disguise his identity to teach the Turtles a lesson, that they have become to accustomed to fighting only ninjas. Splinter used several different fighting styles that he switched between quickly, and completely embarrassed all of them without breaking a sweat. Splinter has also shown to have at least a slight degree of enhanced strength, as he has crushed steel mousers with his bare hands. Even with all of this skill and impressive physicals, Shredder has matched Splinter on each and every encounter. Splinter has a strict moral code like most heroes, but he does not hold back against Shredder. Splinter has made it his mission in life to remove the threat of Shredder once and for all. This makes Shredder's fights with Splinter that much more impressive, because it's some of the only times we've ever seen Splinter really let loose on an opponent.
On top of these great battles, Shredder has also killed several legions of a samurai army on his own during his first life time. They ambushed him all at once, and he killed every single one of them on his own. To my knowledge, not even Batman has a feat of taking on this many combatants all at the same time. It can be argued that these were just cannon fodder, but Shredder has also bested all four turtles at once, Karai and a squad of her foot soldiers in seconds, Alopex also in seconds, and Leonardo one on one. All of these characters mentioned have a large amount of feats showing them to be highly skilled warriors as well, yet Shredder is still out of their league.
I know I talked a lot about Shredder, but that's because pretty much everyone who reads comics, has a pretty good understanding of what Batman can do, where Shredder is a little less known. I actually believe this is a very even fight. I even voted "too close to call". Can Batman end this instantly with some of his gear? Yes. Is he likely to do this though? Debatable, but I think not in character. In a martial arts fight between the two, is Shredder the better fighter? Also debatable, but I think he has proven he at least has a great shot to win."
"Batman, 7/10 majority. @k4tzm4n this will be my main argument/post in favour of Batman.
Based on what I've seen and read up on Shredder thus far, it's really not enough to match up against Bruce or pose too much of a serious threat. Not only are Shredder's feats less defined than Batman's but they are lower in quantity, for each quality feat Shredder posesses, Batman has several equally as impressive, if not better feats to compare. For example - skill has always been Batman's major strength in combat, and often it compliments his overall physical ability. In regards to skill feats, he completely trashed Bane in the Forever Evil Aftermarth: Batman vs Bane comic. In his rematch with Talon in Batman #6 , he completely defeated Talon despite being at the disadvantage of being psychologically torture and physical damage, to the point where after the match, the Court of Owls regarded him (Talon) as useless). A younger Batman was able to defeat Doctor Death in Batman #29 in H2H despite his opponent being a superhuman/extremely durable, again defeated Bane amped on Venom in Batwoman #24 (Bane is undeniably superhuman with Venom). And for a more technical showing, defeated a man who was immune to pain with a rapid-attack of pressure points in Detective Comics #17. And moreover onto the physical aspect, he has demonstrated striking power potent enough to easily kick apart large bionic robots (Batwing #23), knocked Talon through a reinforced steel door (which would atleast be into the 1 ton range) and punch Talon through a marble wall, and in regards to speed he's never really had a problem with tagging/out-fighting metahumans. On the durability side, the New-52 version of the suit has shown more armored/bullet proof properties, and has even withstood punishment from Clayface (IIRC #15 of Detective Comics). I haven't even gotten into gadgets yet, but what does Shredder have to match or overcome Batman's massive skill and physical advantage? Because I firmly believe he has nothing to overcome Batman. The physical + skill advantage alone is too much for Shredder. In addition to this, it does help I suppose that parts of his suit are protected against bladed weapons.
I'm also seeing a point being made in regards to Shredder taking down armies of ninja's, etc. While that's rather cool and neat, Batman has fodderized ninja's, aliens and robots on a purely consistent basis. I don't really put too much stock into defeating fodder; it depends on how the fodder is defeated (e.g. if the fodder's defeat showcased a special ability by the attacker, such as pressure points)."
"The important thing to remember is averages. Shredder is not the star of the TMNT title. The turtles are. So certainly, in the mere 30 some issues that have been published, Shredder is not in all of them and of the ones he is he isn't always fighting. However Batman IS the lead of his own title, as well as several other Bat-books, and is featured on the JL (where frankly anyone who cites combative feats of Bat's against guys that are Superman-level threats are just high-balling) so of course he's going to have far more feats. However of those feats, nothing proves he is more than a match for Shredder. In every instance of Shredder fighting thus far, he's destroyed anyone, everyone, and everything in his path. Batman has demonstrated pressure point combat (since that's always people's default "skill" showings) and while Shredder isn't fond of pressure points (he prefers shredding it would seem) he's manhandled Splinter who has. Batman can beat Bane (although the recent Batman vs Bane where he beats Bane with his fists is silly considering the same Venom made Batman tough enough to make Superman bleed and not shatter his hand upon punching Clark) and Shredder can handle Slash. Comparisons can be made and are there to justify Shredder, at the very least, being a tough fight for Batman. The edge Batman has here is gear. Shredder doesn't carry much. However, most of Batman's gear is based on ninjitsu weapons. Smoke bombs? Batarangs (shuriken)? Even the grapple gun could be made to be compared to Kamas. Point being his gear gives him an edge, but it isn't like it's going to be totally unfamiliar to Shredder. Batman has the batsuit, which is incredibly durable, but Shredder has tanked missiles (plural) in standard ninja garb. He's done the common feats Batman has as well such as taking on massive groups of fodder enemies, bullet time, and have even showed the same meticulous thinking patterns (Shredder in conquering, controlling, and dominating the criminal underworld and Batman with his incredible attention to detail in his detective work).
This is a lot closer than people are giving Shredder credit for."
Corey "Undeadpool" Schroeder, Comic Vine Writer
The ninja had been no problem for him. Ninja never were. He hadn't even broken a sweat working his way to the top of the pagoda, but when we slid the paper door aside, he felt his skin prickle. He looked back and the door was closed. Any attempt to open it proved fruitless and where once there had been fragile wood and paper was now an invincible barrier. He turned the other way, toward the window, toward the man who'd brought him here by leaving a shuriken in one of his greatest enemy's chest.
"He won't stay dead, you know." He intoned to the armored man sitting, his back to him."I care not. I had no real desire to kill him, but to send a message to you. Had you not responded, I would have merely chosen another. Perhaps that absurd clown or the crocodile that walks like a man. That one, though, I'd be as likely to recruit." His voice was baritone and clear, dripping with sinister intent, "They tell stories of you. Even out here we know about...the Batman."
"Funny. I haven't heard anything about you."He'd meant it as a taunt, but his mysterious foe only replied, "I suppose that makes one of us the better ninja. You may call me 'The Shredder.'" He rose, turning slowly. He wore a metal helmet, spiked shoulder pads, bladed gauntlets, kneepads, shinguards and even a chest plate, "You pose little threat to me or my plans. But I must confess...you bother me. Any time your plans involve the globe, it helps to remove interlopers as early as possible.
Batman said nothing, studying his foe critically before charging forward. Their gauntlets locked and they fought one another, Batman headbutting the Shredder, his helmet clanging as the ninja staggered back. Batman went for an overhead kick, but Shredder stabbed dropped, tackling Batman to the ground before flipping off him as the Bat threw out a flashbang grenade.
"Trickery and theatrics. Indeed the hallmark of a ninja. But what are they when you haven't the skill to take advantage?" Shredder advanced again, as Batman grabbed at a teargas capsule, hurling it at the ground and flipping back. But as he looked into the cloud, he found it empty. An incredible stabbing pain tore through his back as Saki wrapped a gauntlet around Bats' neck.
"Parlor tricks and novelties will always be trumped by skill." he twisted his claw and Batman let out a cry."True...but versatility will get you far." Batman pulled out his grapple gun and shot it into the ceiling, pulling both men up and tucking his head as Shredder's smashed into the ceiling. Sure enough, whatever stopped him from leaving wasn't just on the doors. They fell, Shredder on his back and Batman staggering, blood dripping from the wound in his back. He turned and leaped, Shredder clawing reflexedly, but missing as Batman landed at his head and drove his fist into Saki's face.
Panting, he called up his computer and found the source of the barrier: a hidden switch under the mat where Shredder had knelt before their fight. He looked back. This wasn't his territory and he had a notion that this situation would be handled, but still felt the need to remind, "If you ever decide to go global, I'll be waiting."
Do you think the right combatant won the battle? Feel free to continue the conversation below!