BATMAN: ZERO YEAR Announced

@danhimself: On what earth are Batman's early years "unexplored"? They've been done to death. In movies, on TV, in books and comics, even in videogames! Just about everywhere you can possibly imagine. The approach they're taking is far too granular, and if it replaces Year One then it will likely be replaced by another all-too-similar tale in a few years when the Batman writer of the future decides he also needs to muck with Batman's past instead of propelling the character into the future.

@Equonox said:

@Equonox said:

@Fantasgasmic said:

I am trepidatious. Batman Year One was really good, and the only retcons to it I've seen is awful (Kevin Smith made Batman pee himself).

In my mind, a Year Zero wouldn't have him facing off with any supervillains. Year One was all about the Mafia, and the idea that the supervillains didn't get a foothold until organized crime lost its stranglehold on the city, and there was a power vacuum. Also, "Year Zero" makes almost no sense whatsoever as a concept. Year One didn't start with Bruce putting on the cowl, it started with him coming back to Gotham (at the end of the first issue, he made the decision to become a bat. So having the cave before Year One also makes little sense.

If Snyder wants to show us a Batman Origin story fitting into the New52, he should show us Bruce's travels around the world training. The "Missing Years" as it were. We saw a little of it in some of the Zero issues, but we know he trained with Henri Ducard and his son from the Nobody arc in Batman and Robin. Those are the stories I think would be good to tell; they would add to the Batman origin, without completely rewriting it and retelling/changing the same old stories over and over again.

Year Zero makes perfect sense - it's the time before Bruce returns to Gotham (as you said yourself, Year One was the first year with the Cape and Cowl in Gotham).

Something everyone seems to be missing here (at least the people hating on the idea) is this isn't going to retcon anything about Year One - this is the period of time BEFORE Year One that really has never had a lot of time dedicated to it in comics before. Stop whining and complaining, especially if you can't conceptualize what time period Year Zero would encapsulate. I, for one, am incredibly interested in seeing where Bruce went and who he specifically learned from during that year, and really you should only be complaining if you know the incredibly specific details to those points already (which you don't, because it hasn't ever been told in detail).

Interesting argument. But you have to admit Snyder runs the risk of going over too much familiar ground with this story. If he was willing to do this separately whilst furthering Batman's current timeline that would be fine

Agreed, but I think there is actually a lot of wiggle room...all we really know about "Zero Year(s)" (I add the "s" because something tells me this will span more than just a single year) is that after Bruce's parents were killed he traveled the world, learning every martial arts style known to man while honing his intellect...THAT'S IT. They have SO many specific details to expand on, I feel 11 issues is actually not nearly enough (tho I will admit, that's a long time to go without seeing current Batman, which I think Snyder and Capullo have done masterfully). At least the other Bat comics will remain in the present...

It is supposed to take place after Batman 0 when Bruce has all the martial arts training and other stuff under wraps. It basically deals with him in between crime fighting and becoming Batman if I were to hazard a guess.

@End_Boss said:

@danhimself said:

@End_Boss said:

@danhimself: Yep. Just re-read it to make sure I didn't miss anything important. I didn't.

then you should know that this isn't him as a child and his parents getting killed....this is (despite what Snyder is saying) probably going to replace Year One

Which is exactly my problem with it. Yes, in my first post I referred to the early origin, but I was being facetious. The issue is that they're not expanding on the mythos, not doing anything that furthers Batman as a character. Just rehashing the first year of his life as a crime fighter and calling it a day. It's too safe and too boring.

we don't really know that though....this time period is really an unexplored part of Batman's past....I could care less if it replaces Year One or not since I'm probably one of the few that didn't think that it was a "masterpiece" but if it doesn't then I would imagine that it's taking place after it...which I think it'll be cool to see a less experienced Batman with no supporting Bat Family....I'm also one of the people who wants Batman and Robin to be reworked and set in the past and focus on Bruce and Dick in the New 52....I loved the Nightwing Zero Issue

@danhimself said:

@End_Boss said:

@danhimself: Yep. Just re-read it to make sure I didn't miss anything important. I didn't.

then you should know that this isn't him as a child and his parents getting killed....this is (despite what Snyder is saying) probably going to replace Year One

Which is exactly my problem with it. Yes, in my first post I referred to the early origin, but I was being facetious. The issue is that they're not expanding on the mythos, not doing anything that furthers Batman as a character. Just rehashing the first year of his life as a crime fighter and calling it a day. It's too safe and too boring.

@End_Boss said:

@danhimself: Yep. Just re-read it to make sure I didn't miss anything important. I didn't.

then you should know that this isn't him as a child and his parents getting killed....this is (despite what Snyder is saying) probably going to replace Year One

@BR_Havoc said:

@Equonox said:

@BR_Havoc said:

@Reignmaker: Honestly I have not bought a Batman issue since they reintroduced Freeze and did a horrible job making him another throw away rogue for Batman to beat up on for an issue or two.

I found Freeze's new story to be way deeper. They took the old MO that Freeze had and turned it into a figment of his (psychotic) imagination, which means not only is Batman dealing with an incredibly intelligent scientist hellbent on saving his wife, but he's doing that while simultaneously trying to convince Freeze it's not reality. Ever try to convince someone who was love stricken that it's all in their head? Can be harder to do than just beating someone up. Thus, they added more depth to the character, but I guess I'm the only one here willing to critically analyze the situation. It's also kind of like Manti T'eo...lol

You see I found it the opposite possibly because its highly influenced by the background of Norman Bates from Psycho. So to me they took aspects that Dini gave him that showed how twisted and how far you would go for love and how that can break a human. In many ways you felt bad for Freeze you thought is he truly a villain or just someone willing sacrifice everything to save his wife. This new Freeze is psychotic something completely new for Batman villains, Snyder managed to remove everything that made him a unique Batman villain the philosophical aspect of Dini's Freeze is lost he is now only a psychopath with a cold gun. So were was the new depth that was added? he is incredibly one dimensional.

So I guess you are not the only person that with is willing to analyze a character.

You claim to analyze the character, and yet your description of him is "a psychopath with a cold gun" which completely ignores the specific degree of his psychosis. I was mostly joking with the quip about analysis, my point is just that you don't seem to be willing to explore the new dimensions that have been added to the character, evidenced by your (my apologies) rather surface-level dismissal of his psychosis. He's not just another psychopath - he's a psychopath who is fueled by an imaginary love...add that to his already genius intellect, and the cold gun, and you have an incredibly intelligent and dangerous villain with an impossibly strong modus operandi. Nothing about that eliminates the aspects Dini gave him - he's still willing to go far and do twisted things for love, it's just that the love exists in his mind. Instead of Batman's old dynamic with him where we often was able to reconcile (and even ally) with Freeze (because both had Nora's best interests in mind) you now have a dynamic in which Batman CAN'T reason with him or reconcile with him because Nora doesn't exist (well, she does, but she's not his wife). I think that's an incredibly compelling character and one that has much more depth than you give him credit for, but I suppose it is your opinion.

@Lvenger said:

@Equonox said:

@Fantasgasmic said:

I am trepidatious. Batman Year One was really good, and the only retcons to it I've seen is awful (Kevin Smith made Batman pee himself).

In my mind, a Year Zero wouldn't have him facing off with any supervillains. Year One was all about the Mafia, and the idea that the supervillains didn't get a foothold until organized crime lost its stranglehold on the city, and there was a power vacuum. Also, "Year Zero" makes almost no sense whatsoever as a concept. Year One didn't start with Bruce putting on the cowl, it started with him coming back to Gotham (at the end of the first issue, he made the decision to become a bat. So having the cave before Year One also makes little sense.

If Snyder wants to show us a Batman Origin story fitting into the New52, he should show us Bruce's travels around the world training. The "Missing Years" as it were. We saw a little of it in some of the Zero issues, but we know he trained with Henri Ducard and his son from the Nobody arc in Batman and Robin. Those are the stories I think would be good to tell; they would add to the Batman origin, without completely rewriting it and retelling/changing the same old stories over and over again.

Year Zero makes perfect sense - it's the time before Bruce returns to Gotham (as you said yourself, Year One was the first year with the Cape and Cowl in Gotham).

Something everyone seems to be missing here (at least the people hating on the idea) is this isn't going to retcon anything about Year One - this is the period of time BEFORE Year One that really has never had a lot of time dedicated to it in comics before. Stop whining and complaining, especially if you can't conceptualize what time period Year Zero would encapsulate. I, for one, am incredibly interested in seeing where Bruce went and who he specifically learned from during that year, and really you should only be complaining if you know the incredibly specific details to those points already (which you don't, because it hasn't ever been told in detail).

Interesting argument. But you have to admit Snyder runs the risk of going over too much familiar ground with this story. If he was willing to do this separately whilst furthering Batman's current timeline that would be fine

Agreed, but I think there is actually a lot of wiggle room...all we really know about "Zero Year(s)" (I add the "s" because something tells me this will span more than just a single year) is that after Bruce's parents were killed he traveled the world, learning every martial arts style known to man while honing his intellect...THAT'S IT. They have SO many specific details to expand on, I feel 11 issues is actually not nearly enough (tho I will admit, that's a long time to go without seeing current Batman, which I think Snyder and Capullo have done masterfully). At least the other Bat comics will remain in the present...

@mcbean said:

@Reignmaker: Not me I'm dropping this title also Snyder Superman cover price is 4.99 way to much for a comic.

Yeah, the price of comics have gotten ridiculous. I wish DC would start up a digital subscription service like Marvel.

It's getting tougher to justify these single issue prices when a book takes maybe 20 minutes to read at most.

@Equonox said:

@Fantasgasmic said:

I am trepidatious. Batman Year One was really good, and the only retcons to it I've seen is awful (Kevin Smith made Batman pee himself).

In my mind, a Year Zero wouldn't have him facing off with any supervillains. Year One was all about the Mafia, and the idea that the supervillains didn't get a foothold until organized crime lost its stranglehold on the city, and there was a power vacuum. Also, "Year Zero" makes almost no sense whatsoever as a concept. Year One didn't start with Bruce putting on the cowl, it started with him coming back to Gotham (at the end of the first issue, he made the decision to become a bat. So having the cave before Year One also makes little sense.

If Snyder wants to show us a Batman Origin story fitting into the New52, he should show us Bruce's travels around the world training. The "Missing Years" as it were. We saw a little of it in some of the Zero issues, but we know he trained with Henri Ducard and his son from the Nobody arc in Batman and Robin. Those are the stories I think would be good to tell; they would add to the Batman origin, without completely rewriting it and retelling/changing the same old stories over and over again.

Year Zero makes perfect sense - it's the time before Bruce returns to Gotham (as you said yourself, Year One was the first year with the Cape and Cowl in Gotham).

Something everyone seems to be missing here (at least the people hating on the idea) is this isn't going to retcon anything about Year One - this is the period of time BEFORE Year One that really has never had a lot of time dedicated to it in comics before. Stop whining and complaining, especially if you can't conceptualize what time period Year Zero would encapsulate. I, for one, am incredibly interested in seeing where Bruce went and who he specifically learned from during that year, and really you should only be complaining if you know the incredibly specific details to those points already (which you don't, because it hasn't ever been told in detail).

Interesting argument. But you have to admit Snyder runs the risk of going over too much familiar ground with this story. If he was willing to do this separately whilst furthering Batman's current timeline that would be fine

Eh. I'm skeptical. Thats all i'll say.

It's pretty amazing in all these years, this story has never been fully told. Snyder also notes they do not plan to 'take apart' Frank Miller and David Mazzucchelli's YEAR ONE.

And thats all i need to know

@Equonox said:

@BR_Havoc said:

@Reignmaker: Honestly I have not bought a Batman issue since they reintroduced Freeze and did a horrible job making him another throw away rogue for Batman to beat up on for an issue or two.

I found Freeze's new story to be way deeper. They took the old MO that Freeze had and turned it into a figment of his (psychotic) imagination, which means not only is Batman dealing with an incredibly intelligent scientist hellbent on saving his wife, but he's doing that while simultaneously trying to convince Freeze it's not reality. Ever try to convince someone who was love stricken that it's all in their head? Can be harder to do than just beating someone up. Thus, they added more depth to the character, but I guess I'm the only one here willing to critically analyze the situation. It's also kind of like Manti T'eo...lol

You see I found it the opposite possibly because its highly influenced by the background of Norman Bates from Psycho. So to me they took aspects that Dini gave him that showed how twisted and how far you would go for love and how that can break a human. In many ways you felt bad for Freeze you thought is he truly a villain or just someone willing sacrifice everything to save his wife. This new Freeze is psychotic something completely new for Batman villains, Snyder managed to remove everything that made him a unique Batman villain the philosophical aspect of Dini's Freeze is lost he is now only a psychopath with a cold gun. So were was the new depth that was added? he is incredibly one dimensional.

So I guess you are not the only person that with is willing to analyze a character.

@Reignmaker: Not me I'm dropping this title also Snyder Superman cover price is 4.99 way to much for a comic.

@Equonox said:

@BR_Havoc said:

@Reignmaker: Honestly I have not bought a Batman issue since they reintroduced Freeze and did a horrible job making him another throw away rogue for Batman to beat up on for an issue or two.

I found Freeze's new story to be way deeper. They took the old MO that Freeze had and turned it into a figment of his (psychotic) imagination, which means not only is Batman dealing with an incredibly intelligent scientist hellbent on saving his wife, but he's doing that while simultaneously trying to convince Freeze it's not reality. Ever try to convince someone who was love stricken that it's all in their head? Can be harder to do than just beating someone up. Thus, they added more depth to the character, but I guess I'm the only one here willing to critically analyze the situation. It's also kind of like Manti T'eo...lol

^ This. Love the new origin. Plus I'm not married to any one fixed continuity. You're just asking for continual heartbreak if you're looking for that in your comic book characters. Plus, we need to move beyond Batman: The Animated Series at some point. Great show, but it's over.

@KnightRise: Better than the alternative of complacently giving away money to stories that don't deserve it.

I mean sure, the argument could be made that because this explores the tiny window of time in between scenes of Miller's Year One, that there's new content. But how many times can we read about Batman first donning his cowl, punching his first thug, thwarting his first super villain? It's old hat, a tired story. Move on, comic book writers. Move on.

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: I doubt due to the fact that Bruce meets none of the Robins or Catwoman in his first year. Most had their origins explained enough in the #0 month event where Batman had many adventures during his time trainer, and becoming Batman to the point where alot was left unaccounted, even before the new 52 was launched.

Comic fan logic: complain about a lack of new content, complain about delivery of new content.

OH wow, now we will learn how he started? FINALLY! OMG I have been wanting to know that forever. I am so ready, I always wonder what his origin story is. Wow NOW WE WILL LEARN. oh boy. I wonder what happened? I bet his parents died or something.

@BR_Havoc said:

@Reignmaker: Honestly I have not bought a Batman issue since they reintroduced Freeze and did a horrible job making him another throw away rogue for Batman to beat up on for an issue or two.

I found Freeze's new story to be way deeper. They took the old MO that Freeze had and turned it into a figment of his (psychotic) imagination, which means not only is Batman dealing with an incredibly intelligent scientist hellbent on saving his wife, but he's doing that while simultaneously trying to convince Freeze it's not reality. Ever try to convince someone who was love stricken that it's all in their head? Can be harder to do than just beating someone up. Thus, they added more depth to the character, but I guess I'm the only one here willing to critically analyze the situation. It's also kind of like Manti T'eo...lol

@Reignmaker: Honestly I have not bought a Batman issue since they reintroduced Freeze and did a horrible job making him another throw away rogue for Batman to beat up on for an issue or two.

I'm getting this.

@Equonox said:

Year Zero makes perfect sense - it's the time before Bruce returns to Gotham (as you said yourself, Year One was the first year with the Cape and Cowl in Gotham).

Something everyone seems to be missing here (at least the people hating on the idea) is this isn't going to retcon anything about Year One - this is the period of time BEFORE Year One that really has never had a lot of time dedicated to it in comics before. Stop whining and complaining, especially if you can't conceptualize what time period Year Zero would encapsulate. I, for one, am incredibly interested in seeing where Bruce went and who he specifically learned from during that year, and really you should only be complaining if you know the incredibly specific details to those points already (which you don't, because it hasn't ever been told in detail).

QFT my friend

@dreamfall31: The problem is that there's no way that the complex construction of the Batcave by a small number of people could actually make any sense given the time frame.

@End_Boss said:

@TeamUnitedNerds: He really is, though.

I have to agree with this. Snyder is a good writer but he is not great. He fails to develop characters and it seems he almost wants every Batman character to be one dimensional. I wonder how he will do with Superman a character that has to have more depth then Batman?

@danhimself: Yep. Just re-read it to make sure I didn't miss anything important. I didn't.

Hmm Batmans new origin... Im gonna go on a wild guess and say... his parents die in front of him... he runs away learns 120 forms of combat in less than 10 years and then becomes batman... just guessing here.

@BR_Havoc said:

Well let me guess this will be a long ass 11 issue run. That starts slow builds nicely then has an ending that feels like it was thrown together in about 5 minutes. DC just loves to give us the same crap we have already seen 1000 times before and this is no different.

And we'll be there each month - eagerly parting with our money. No different.

if anyone else were to do this i'd have a fit. but this.

I'll allow it

Let's hope Snyder will do something good.

@joshmightbe said:

How he built the Batcave? Yes that's exactly what comic book readers love construction logistics.

I'd like to know how he put that thing together! I mean it'd just be him and possinly Alfred doing the hard work right? At least in the Nolan movies the Batcave was never more than some computers and few storage places. The comics always have it constructed to seem like he'd need years if he built it on his own!

@End_Boss said:

@StMichalofWilson: Doesn't matter. Just another origin story. Let me spoil the whole thing for you.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

Bruce Wayne exits a theater with his parents. There is a disheveled hobo outside who may or may not be called Joe Chill in this universe. Regardless of his nomenclature, though, he will be there, and he will have a gun. Which he will first use to rob the Waynes, then senselessly murder them. It can be argued that it is at this exact moment that the Batman is born in the young Wayne's eyes. He will then go off the grid for an indeterminate number of years, mastering the world's fighting styles and training his mind, so that he can return to Gotham as the Caped Crusader. The end.

you didn't read the article did you?

@Fantasgasmic said:

I am trepidatious. Batman Year One was really good, and the only retcons to it I've seen is awful (Kevin Smith made Batman pee himself).

In my mind, a Year Zero wouldn't have him facing off with any supervillains. Year One was all about the Mafia, and the idea that the supervillains didn't get a foothold until organized crime lost its stranglehold on the city, and there was a power vacuum. Also, "Year Zero" makes almost no sense whatsoever as a concept. Year One didn't start with Bruce putting on the cowl, it started with him coming back to Gotham (at the end of the first issue, he made the decision to become a bat. So having the cave before Year One also makes little sense.

If Snyder wants to show us a Batman Origin story fitting into the New52, he should show us Bruce's travels around the world training. The "Missing Years" as it were. We saw a little of it in some of the Zero issues, but we know he trained with Henri Ducard and his son from the Nobody arc in Batman and Robin. Those are the stories I think would be good to tell; they would add to the Batman origin, without completely rewriting it and retelling/changing the same old stories over and over again.

Year Zero makes perfect sense - it's the time before Bruce returns to Gotham (as you said yourself, Year One was the first year with the Cape and Cowl in Gotham).

Something everyone seems to be missing here (at least the people hating on the idea) is this isn't going to retcon anything about Year One - this is the period of time BEFORE Year One that really has never had a lot of time dedicated to it in comics before. Stop whining and complaining, especially if you can't conceptualize what time period Year Zero would encapsulate. I, for one, am incredibly interested in seeing where Bruce went and who he specifically learned from during that year, and really you should only be complaining if you know the incredibly specific details to those points already (which you don't, because it hasn't ever been told in detail).

@TeamUnitedNerds: He really is, though.

I approve. The only thing is, this makes me slightly paranoid that Snyder will become a wannabe Frank Miller. And Frank Miller nowadays is basically a wannabe Frank Miller

@mbembet said:

lol glad i dropped this book long time ago snyder is fucking overrated

Nope nope nope

How he built the Batcave? Yes that's exactly what comic book readers love construction logistics.

I am trepidatious. Batman Year One was really good, and the only retcons to it I've seen is awful (Kevin Smith made Batman pee himself).

In my mind, a Year Zero wouldn't have him facing off with any supervillains. Year One was all about the Mafia, and the idea that the supervillains didn't get a foothold until organized crime lost its stranglehold on the city, and there was a power vacuum. Also, "Year Zero" makes almost no sense whatsoever as a concept. Year One didn't start with Bruce putting on the cowl, it started with him coming back to Gotham (at the end of the first issue, he made the decision to become a bat. So having the cave before Year One also makes little sense.

If Snyder wants to show us a Batman Origin story fitting into the New52, he should show us Bruce's travels around the world training. The "Missing Years" as it were. We saw a little of it in some of the Zero issues, but we know he trained with Henri Ducard and his son from the Nobody arc in Batman and Robin. Those are the stories I think would be good to tell; they would add to the Batman origin, without completely rewriting it and retelling/changing the same old stories over and over again.

I'm sure Snyder and Capullo will have an interesting story to tell but the timeline...I'm just not interested in it. Not anymore. The New 52 should have started from these stories.

It's confusing when the "first" meeting between Batman and Superman from Justice League #1 turns out to be false and there's a Batman/Superman book coming that will have the "real" first meeting. It's just confusing and not thought out.

In short I'm more interested in post DotF Batman than Year Zero/One whatever Batman.

FlashKnight: We're in the same boat.

I'm sure it will be a good read, but while they're filling in the blanks for an entire year, the book will be at a standstill regarding forward progress. A move that seems counterproductive to the mission statement of the "new"52 initiative.

@Trodorne: Bet you are right.

It doesn't need to be boring... but, Superman... Spider-man... Captain America have "easy" origins.

How many times must they be messed with?!?

yawn.

I'm really excited for this, since I'm a new comics fan and the only ones I have read have been New 52. Anyone else have a similar viewpoint?

Obviously the continuation from the zero issue months ago. I'm kind of not looking forward to such a long arc again. One of the cons of only coming out once a month. The story line is too long to keep up the momentum. Even though I love Snyder's works, it's going to unfortunately drag on.

@StMichalofWilson: Doesn't matter. Just another origin story. Let me spoil the whole thing for you.

So we're going all the way back to the begining..or before year one?

I thought Flashpoint was an event that just tweeked the DCU not altered it from the core. And it soulds like another thing 10 years down the road they'll have to "fix"

Great!

@ObsideonDarman: noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

pass

Can't Wait!

Jesus Christ, you have got to be kidding me. Their biggest story of the year is an origin yarn? I... I really don't know what you're doing at all anymore, Snyder. Unless the plan is to just completely rewrite Batman's origin and generate sales with the rage, I don't see the point. And even if you do manage to do that, they will bottom out after the general fandom realizes you've jerked one of their most beloved character's origin around.