While Bruce Wayne gets some much earned rest this month, future Batman, Terry McGinnis engaged in an epic battle against Miles Morales aka Ultimate Spider-Man. Since kicking-off on Monday, 431 Viners thought about the brawl and then cast their vote (well, hopefully they put some thought into it before voting!). Was Terry's technology too much or did Miles' superhuman stats overcome? Well, the answer is clear: the Comic Vine community sides with future Batman. 64% of voters are backing Terry in this fight. Meanwhile, 31% think Miles has what it takes to obtain victory and only 4% thought this was too close to call.
A majority of the community sides with future Gotham's hero, but do I agree? Let's look over the advantages each are bringing to the table, shall we?
When initially making this match, "too close to call" was definitely the choice I had in mind. But upon thinking it through during the week, I slowly began to side with one of them for a small majority. First and foremost, to the people who think Spidey 2099 was a better pairing: no. Just because they're both from the future doesn't mean it's a balanced fight. 2099's speed and strength is too great and the scenario would need to be heavily altered to give Terry a fighting chance. If you think Terry has what it takes to beat Peter Parker, then you'll of course disagree, but I don't share that opinion at all. Miles, on the other hand, possess a physical advantage -- though not as great as 2099's -- and that's countered by being less experienced. This is a clear-cut case of power versus expertise. Even if you think the winner is obvious, the real objective is just to have some fun thinking about these fights.
While Terry's physicals are enhanced by the futuristic suit (estimated strength in the 1-2 ton range at most), Miles is on a superhuman level above that. He has the strength required to throw cars, the speed/agility to dance around bullets and even the reflexes to temporarily hang with 616 Spider-Man. Miles may not be trained by Bruce Wayne, but as Arachne pointed out, he's a natural with his power, and his stats are very impressive. In fact, physicals alone have allowed him to overcome characters who are deadlier, more experienced and clearly more skilled. Then there's the venom blast. Applied with a simple touch, he can make this weak enough to stun someone or strong enough to keep the powerful Omega Red down for the count. It's completely in character for him to use it, too. It's a matter of when he'll use it, not if. He's no pushover, either. During his time as Spider-Man, we've witnessed the kid stand against some brutal punishment. He's been smashed into cars, blasted by Prowler, tossed through walls, and endured explosions at point blank range. In short: the kid's tough and thanks to his spider-sense/speed/agility/strength, he can go head-to-head with all kinds of threats, even the ones which have spent far more time in this line of work.
Terry may not be as skilled or tactical as Bruce Wayne, but the guy is still majorly impressive. He's become a formidable hand-to-hand combatant and his effectiveness is boosted thanks to the suit giving his stats a nice bump. He's been the recipient of more than thorough training from the great Bruce Wayne and it certainly shows. As Batman, Terry's faced a huge variety of enemies and, thanks to his tactical mind and resources, ultimately finds a way to victory. If it's not in the first fight, you can bet it'll be in the second. Just like Miles, he can take a punch, too. The suit has protected him from a good deal of devastating attacks, and aside from the obvious ability of flight, it also offers a number of weapons. Now, it's in character for Terry to try hand-to-hand and basic projectiles, but more options are available as the fight progresses. If they connect, they can give Terry the window he needs to obtain the win. Miles can cloak, but it can be disputed Terrry's vision mode can counter that. Terry can go invisible too, and while that holds the potential to give him the luxury of a first attack, it can be debated Miles' spider-sense will help him react accordingly.
Power or experience? In this case, I'm siding with power after a dang good fight. Terry has been at it longer and has more options to utilize as the fight goes on, but Miles' strength, speed, reflexes, agility and venom blast simply cannot be ignored and will play a big factor in the early stages of the fight. The venom blast is something he's prone to using, and considering he has the physical edge, it's likely that'll land sooner rather than later. Depending on how much it is applied, it could simply damage, disable or even destroy Terry's suit (the option is very dangerous against technology, as seen with Prowler and Rhino). When the Ultimate universe hero's in a fight with someone as dangerous and competent as Terry, it's without question something he'll utilize. Even if it stuns Terry for merely a second or two, that gives Miles the chance he needs to land a volley of super-human punches or unleash a plethora of webbing to temporarily incapacitate his foe. If all else fails, his edge in speed and strength (not to mention spider-sense) would absolutely compensate for the skill gap and help him dodge plenty of projectiles Terry throws his way. McGinnis definitely has what it takes to earn the victory over time thanks to his skill, resources, and durability, but seeing as this is a random encounter and he's unaware hand-to-hand won't be all that effective, I give a tad more weight to Miles' impressive physical natural and believe he earns a small majority.
There were a lot of great arguments presented for both sides this week. Seriously, good job, everyone. It wasn't easy picking which to highlight, but here's some solid and concise arguments that were made for each option on the poll.
Viner Argument of the Week for Miles Morales is by BrokenSpear
"Terry has a wide assortment of tech, gadgets and offensive weaponry at his disposal that will make this fight very difficult for Miles; but the combination of Miles' powers and his webbing have proven to be just as useful as Terry's tech and i think they both have what it takes to put the other one down at any given moment. When it comes down to combat skills and experience though Terry has the edge by a wide margin; but this advantage is mitigated somewhat due to Miles' superhuman stats which more than makes up for his lack in both areas.
It's a tough fight to call but i give my vote to Miles. I think Terry's skill, experience and tech would allow him to take command of the situation early on and immediately put miles on the defensive. The determining factor to me however is Terry's penchant for engaging in hand to hand combat and Miles' predilection for ending fights with his venom blast; and that for me is the game changer.
Miles is far more likely to resort to his venom blast before Terry deviates from his standard combat techniques; It serves as a distinct and decisive advantage for Miles in a random battle and Terry won't see it coming. CIS however is part of Miles' character due to his inexperience and he sometimes forgets to use it right away, but i think a decent batpunch to the nose would jog his memory purty quick.
Some of the people here are skeptical about the efficacy of the venomblast in this fight but it's been the finishing move in an overwhelming majority of Miles' fights and i don't see why it would be any different here.
Viner Argument for Terry McGinnis is by Trauma
"Let's face it if we are looking at this from a power perspective, Miles wins. But this is about the whole package. If we look at everything these two bring to the fight it's pretty easy to see Terry wins. This isn't about who is more popular and who had a cartoon. This is just plain common sense and should be a non bias decision.
Strength: The bat suit multiplies terry's strength by ten. Miles has super strength also. Though in my opinion has shown very little strength applications besides his jumping. In my opinion i say this feat. is a draw.
Durability: Miles has taken some big hits. But, once again due to little experience he has not been able to show off this ability. Terry's suit has taken shot's from superman......I think that says it all. Even though I believe durability goes to terry, we will call this one a draw.
Agility: While Terry has Olympic level ability, Miles goes beyond that. Plus his spider sense makes him even more agile and hard to touch. This is the major thing miles has going for him. But I do believe there is something to be said about the speed and reflexes of Terry. I mean the dude dodges bullets all the time. Advantage Miles
Venom Blast: This is where things get tricky. While most fan boys will say "it takes one touch and game over" We need to realize that it doesn't always pan out that way. There are times where Miles uses this ability and the effects are minimal. Throw in the durability of the bat suit and I think this ability is drastically weakened. The bat suit has a high resistance to heat and electricity. Still this is Advantage Miles
Equipment: This is where Terry starts to pull away. The bat suit's feats. include...... Enhanced strength, Increase flexibility, Enhanced vision(see in the dark), Super durability, Rebreather, Assorted batarangs, Grappling gun, Emits electrical shock, Flash bangs, Smoke pellets, Tracers, Flexicuffs, Wings, Rocket boots, Adhesion boots, Cloaking device, Claws, and so much more. Advantage Terry
Fighting: Miles has no training in combat outside of shield(which hasn't been long) and what he has seen peter do. Without his powers he couldn't hold his own in a bar fight. Terry has defeated his own bat suit in combat and not to mention is trained by Bruce. Obvious Advantage Terry
Experience: This is where Terry takes the win. His experience is so far beyond Miles. Terry has defeated some unbelievable talent and making the joker lose his mind before defeating him says it all. We need to remember this isn't Terry from the first episode of Batman Beyond. This is current Terry. He has had thousands of fights and has been put in almost every scenario possible. Miles is 13. A new superhero. No matter how "mature" he is for his age, he is still new to the game. He needs a lot more time and experience before taking on Terry. Advantage Terry
Conclusion: Like I said before Terry takes the majority in this fight. His experience, equipment, and abilities are just too much to handle. Now if this was an older Miles and I'm talking much older we would have a totally different fight. But it isn't. Post all the scans you want but the proof is in this pudding. Terry ftw"
Viner Argument for Too Close to Call is by GraniteSoldier
"This is a tough one. I am assuming feats from Batman Beyond the show and the comics apply. So, let's break them down:
Terry's suit increases his strength tenfold. Assuming Terry is of average build, or even someone who works out regularly, he'd be in the 1-2 ton range. He is not peak human like Bruce, at least there's never been any mention or indication of that, or else I think he'd be higher. Miles is similarly enhanced, but his strength does not quite match up against Peter's. Understandable, Miles is still very young and spider-strength has always been proportional. However, I still think Miles edges Terry here, even if it is only slightly (slightly being a relative comic term of a 1-3 ton difference). Edge: Miles
There is almost a caveat with this one, as Miles has that damn spider-sense, but I'll elaborate more on that later. Miles is the clear winner here. Terry is very acrobatic, and has better mobility than Miles (flight vs webslinging) but Miles is absolutely quicker. Now I am not saying Terry isn't close, he surely is, but it is not as close as their strength matchup. If I were to scale this category out of ten, I'd say Miles' speed/agility is an 8/10, whereas Terry would be more of a 6/10. Edge: Miles
I give Terry the edge here. That future Batsuit is insanely durable. He's been stepped on by Micron and kept going. He gets blown through walls, pummeled, and took a hit from Big Barda (wasn't full force mind you, but still). Miles has superhuman durability, but has nothing to cushion it. His suit provides no added protection. Every shot Miles takes is to Miles. I have to give this oneto Terry. Edge: Terry
This is Terry's game here. He has as much tech as Bruce has developed over the years, and anything future wise. Now he obviously doesn't carry everything on him, but between the enhanced visuals of the suit, boosted hearing, the dispensable batarangs (that seem to come in 100 different varieties from electrical to explosive to ice to regular), smoke pellets, explosives, stealthing, I could go on and on. Miles, not really so much. Edge: Terry.
Well, Miles has powers, Terry doesn't. Certainly it isn't that simple, but aside from the speed and strength (which I talked about already) the two big definers here are the spider-sense and the venom blast. My opinion, spider-sense is damn near the best power someone with spider-speed and reflexes could ask for. Venom blast is a close second. Spider-sense will warn Miles of any impending attack, so ambush is near impossible. It also makes him hard to hit when coupled with his speed in a close up fight. Venom blast has been shown to be incredibly powerful (he KO'd Peter with it) and it seems to conduct through anything. It seems electrical in nature, but it conducts through non-conducive material like plastic and hurts enemies supposedly insulated from such attacks (such as Electro). Then there are Miles' webs that can hold characters much stronger than Terry, and he can camouflage. Edge: Miles.
Terry has more experience than Miles. Terry has more training than Miles. This is not to discredit Miles' own training and his accomplishments, but the truth is the truth. Someone in a fight (a real fight not necessarily a comic based one) between two evenly matched opponents it sometimes boils down to experience and experience alone. A less experienced fighter is more likely to make a mistake than a more experienced one, and an experienced fighter is more likely to capitalize on those mistakes. Terry may be on the losing edge of a fight, but if Miles fouls up once, it isn't unlikely to see Terry take advantage. Edge: Terry.
Now what's interesting here is how they cancel each other out. Terry's camo is cancelled out effectively by Miles' spider-sense, whereas Miles' is cancelled out by Terry's visuals from the Batsuit. Both Miles and Terry have the potential to end the fight very quickly (Terry with his tech and Miles with his Venom Blast or webs) but both prefer to seem to try and actually fight first rather than go for a fast, clean takedown. Then it becomes a matter of who goes for what first. In character, both are going to hold back a lot. Terry because he's fighting a kid and Miles because he almost seems like his power scares him at times with how much he can hurt someone. To be honest, the more I analyze it the closer they seem to me. It may sound like a cop-out, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that there are so many variables that it is a wash. Terry has too much wild-card tech, and Miles could be losing the entire time and one good, desperate Venom Blast could win it for him. Too close to call, but it would be great to watch."
And what does the almighty Comic Vine writer, Corey "Undeadpool" Schroeder, think of this one?
"Bruce? Bruce?!...fine, BATMAN?!" Terry's comm was clearly offline, and he was beginning to suspect, more and more, that Blight wasn't behind the strange, green portal he'd fallen through. The city looked enough like New York to be a decent pass, but whoever'd designed it had a mega-retro sense of humor. AND they'd somehow severed his link to Bruce Wayne...Bruce had always mentioned some weirdo named Nygma, but this seemed a little beyond his scope. The collision with his back certainly seemed to dispel the "virtual reality" notion. He tumbled head over heels, but landed on his feet and faced his foe. Some thin guy in a black and red spider web outfit. He steeled himself.
Miles wasn't sure who this joker was, but between his uncle and all of Roxxon's resources, he was sure that he wasn't to be ignored. He looked like some kind of goblin man and he definitely seemed to be up to no good...but what if he was a fellow hero? Miles was still pretty new at this."Hey! Sorry about that, I haven't seen you before! What's your name?" he called out.
A blindside and then a chat? Yeah, that seemed likely. Terry fired off his tazer, but the spider kid evaded, moving to the other side of him and webbing him in the back, hurling him toward the nearest wall. The future Batman was prepared, though, and used his jets to slam into Ultimate Spidey's back, taking him to the other side of the street and slamming him through the opposite building. He reoriented faster, though, using his instinct and and evaded a follow-up. The two went 'round and 'round, no one gaining the upper hand nor even landing a single strike.
Terry's smokescreen had no effect as Miles went into stealth mode, but found himself easily tracked by this interloper. Finally, the younger of the two landed a glancing blow that seemed to have no effect. Terry chuckled as he grabbed the man-spider's arm and slammed him into a staircase, standing over him, shaking his head and chuckling. Until the venom blast activated and brought him down.
Lying on their backs, Miles muttered, "So...what's your story Bat-dude?"Terry muttered, "Oh...you know...strange portal...older mentor I can't possibly live up to...you, Spider-guy?" "Oh...you know...weird interloper...dead mentor I can't possibly live up to...you wanna grab a burger and talk it out?" "........yeah...glad to know burgers exist in this time..." "What?" "....nevermind..."
Want more Batman battles?
- vs. Winter Soldier (W: Batman)
- vs. Cyclops (CV: Too close to call / Viners: Batman)
- vs. Taskmaster (W: Batman)
- vs. Kraven (W: Kraven)
- vs. Deadpool (W: Batman)
- vs. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (W: Batman)
- vs. Daredevil (W: Batman)
- vs. Gambit (W: Batman)
- vs. Wolverine (W: Wolverine)
- vs. Captain America (W: Too close to call)
- vs. Black Panther (W: Black Panther)
- Official Discussion Thread for the segment (use this thread for future match suggestions!)
Next week will be a usual and Batman-free "Comic Vine Battle of the Week." Batman battles will only take place during the first week of each month. Check the homepage Monday to see who's brawling in the next Comic Vine Battle of the Week, mon ami. Oh, and do try to have a good weekend!