Yesterday Marvel released a teaser for AVENGERS & X-MEN #1 featuring Red Skull in the Onslaught armor. Today they've released a second one with Iron Man.
The question is, what did Tony Stark do this time? Why is he having a drink?Â
@jonny_anonymous: If it was indeed a utopia then it would kill itself to save the other universe. Utopia's tend to be noble places.
But Hickman is writing this story and so far he's shown that selfish, egotistical characters win the day and well meaning noble characters fail and die.
@jonny_anonymous: There is none. As the story is structured and the characters written there are only two options, I just think letting everything die is better. Life really isn't that great. Especially as we are talking about the marvel universe where treachery is common and death is a joke. The entire storyline has featured poor characterization and dead end plotting all designed to drive home the point that when push comes to shove survival and not principle is the greater heroism. That is something I don't agree with.
@jonny_anonymous: Which is what the rest of the Illuminati did in the next issue. Who exactly gave them the right to blow up worlds anyway? And then who told them to just give up? Hickman has managed to leach away the heroism that even Namor used to possess and at this point when they go up against the Red Skull in Axis I'm looking it like the Jets versus the Sharks. It doesn't matter who wins.
@mark_stephen: And the scale makes all the difference. One planet isn't even a blip on the untold trillions upon trillions that make up two universes, The magnitude of the amount of people that would die is off the chart, it's literally a number two large to count and you would condemn them all to die because you somehow think it's the "right" thing to do? If the Illuminati hadn't done what they did that planet would of died anyway. Galactus does this on a daily basis, it's why he exists. Only a coward would sit back while universes died around him and convince himself he was "right".
@teerack: I only agree to a certain degree. Yes he DID save not only the earth but the entire universe, but at what cost? I know everyone gave up and was ready to die, but in creating the Cabal its gonna screw a LOT of things up for EVERYONE and put this entire multi verse in jeprody.
@jonny_anonymous: Dr. Strange murdered. Namor murdered even more. If you go by the philosophy that's ok to kill one to save two then what they did could be considered right. I don't agree. Plus in the next issue when they decided not to blow up the next world full of innocent people and just let the universe die Reed went to Latveria to see Val, Tony Stark poured himself drinks and decided to beat the bottle one last time, Beast talked to his younger self, Dr. Strange sulked and the Black Panther decided to have sex with Storm. Maybe he was hoping that they'd climax as the incursion happened and he'd go out with a bang but he didn't have the staying power. Namor went out and formed his own group so they they keep blowing up worlds. So you have Namor who's blowing up worlds and you have the rest of the Illuminati that were not only going to let the world blow up without even trying to stop it, they were also going to keep it a secret.
For marvel this is the height of heroism, or at least it represents the ends justify the means style they've adopted since civil war, to me I think I'd go with the Red Skull. Again he's honestly an evil person and so far as I know he hasn't blown up any worlds. In truth there is no one in the mu that I'd trust to do anything heroic once push came to shove. They're all ready to stab each other in the back or abandon each other and while marvel may consider treachery heroic I do not.
@jonny_anonymous: The people who died might not feel the same way. They might not have liked Dr. Strange murdering their heroes first. Considering that in the next issue the Illuminati had just given up and the Black Panther decided to have sex with Storm instead of warning anyone I think right or wrong still covers it. Marvel has abandoned morality and heroism and now it looks like they are getting ready to celebrate the worst of their heroes. I'm really thinking of rooting for the Red Skull to win this battle. At least he's honestly evil.
What are you even talking about? They saved entire god damn universes.
@jonny_anonymous: The people who died might not feel the same way. They might not have liked Dr. Strange murdering their heroes first. Considering that in the next issue the Illuminati had just given up and the Black Panther decided to have sex with Storm instead of warning anyone I think right or wrong still covers it. Marvel has abandoned morality and heroism and now it looks like they are getting ready to celebrate the worst of their heroes. I'm really thinking of rooting for the Red Skull to win this battle. At least he's honestly evil.
I hope this doesn't help justify Captain America's stupidity in New Avengers/Avengers. Cap is wrong, the end.
I couldn't agree with you more here. Everyone HATES Tony now because Cap was being a douche and calling him a traitor. I can see how a close-minded person would personally think that, but I also think that he doesn't realize that he really IS trying to save everyone from the Incursions but he's destroying planets while he thinks of a better way to do so. Now, because of Caps actions it totally disbanded the Illuminati and now the Cabal is running a muck causing chaos and who KNOWS what will happen in 8 months when the final Incursion comes. Cause think about it, in New Avengers Namor was the one who detonated the bomb, no one else. He then subsequently went on to CREATE the Cabal to destroy more and more and more worlds. So, if Cap wants to blame ANYONE in the Illuminati it should be Namor.
I think blowing up that planet was the most heroic thing Namor has ever done.
I hope this doesn't help justify Captain America's stupidity in New Avengers/Avengers. Cap is wrong, the end.
I couldn't agree with you more here. Everyone HATES Tony now because Cap was being a douche and calling him a traitor. I can see how a close-minded person would personally think that, but I also think that he doesn't realize that he really IS trying to save everyone from the Incursions but he's destroying planets while he thinks of a better way to do so. Now, because of Caps actions it totally disbanded the Illuminati and now the Cabal is running a muck causing chaos and who KNOWS what will happen in 8 months when the final Incursion comes. Cause think about it, in New Avengers Namor was the one who detonated the bomb, no one else. He then subsequently went on to CREATE the Cabal to destroy more and more and more worlds. So, if Cap wants to blame ANYONE in the Illuminati it should be Namor.
oh great make the one man who probably would never want to be the bad guy the fault of what axis may bring.... and cap seriously? captain America looks awful with that
oh great make the one man who probably would never want to be the bad guy the fault of what axis may bring.... and cap seriously? captain America looks awful with that
I wonder if this will all comes back to Tony splitting the Phoenix and creating the Phoenix Five and then in the end resulting in Xavier getting killed which led to the Red Skull getting his brain.
Because three different version of Kang even said that his actions lead to the death of everything because he gets in the Illuminati's way. Not to mention the Illuminati didn't do anything wrong. The first earth they saw was eaten by Galactus, then they blew up a few worlds with no life, and then when the planet had people on it they all refused to do it. Namor is the only one who did anything Cap can complain about even thought his actions are the only reason anything still exists.
I'd agree with most of that, except Kang is by no means honest or omnipotent. He's both lied and been flat out wrong before.
Kang has absolutely no reason to lie about this. If an incursion happens he dies. Imordius has no reason to side with Kang. Iron Lad was an avenger and actually is decently trust worthy. That all aside they have seen time play out more times then anyone else, and if an incursion happens their reality is destroyed throughout all time, so it's a no win situation for them. Kang is like Thanos and Doom where he may be a villain and a lyer but he is very reliable when the stakes are high enough. Not to say they wouldn't back stab anyone, but some times their personal goals become irrelevant because the threats are so great like what happened in the Kang/Ultron War.
Franklin Richards also told him the he would made the Illuminati fail.
He also said that there are "other agents of the end times" and that there's no running from fate, fate being the end of the world via the incursions. No matter what anyone does or doesn't do, it'll happen regardless.
I guess Marvel really really hate Tony Stark. Whenever they need a hero who would be okay to do with something for which he would be blamed Tony Stark is the answer.
How is this a teaser, it seems in just about every event in the past 10 years someone has said that at least once
not exactly sure what the deal with the art though, almost seems like this was enlarged? or rushed, If I drew this...it would be awesome, but coming from The House of ideas, this just comes across as looking sloppy.
@dagmar_merrill: Well we as an audience brought it on ourselves. Robert Downey Jr did that we all let him get away with it because he's so damn charming.Despite having a complete character growth arc in the first film we were more then happy to ignore that so Downey Jr could just be himself instead of having to act.
Then people got it in there heads that was tony stark and Marvel just went with the money. In 20 years people won't get demon in the bottle.
Ok honestly,I'm not sure of Axis,I dont know seems kinda rush ya know?but from what I have seen in the new avengers/avengers,original sin and even the solo stories building up,I think Axis could be better than original sin(i prefer Infinity arc still overall)
but Tony's new look and demeanor seems late,I was ready for him to be superior,I mean come on,hes Tony Stark,who can say we did'nt see this coming(its not a bad thing haha) especially with the incursions going on,I like to see what superior iron man has to offer!
Because three different version of Kang even said that his actions lead to the death of everything because he gets in the Illuminati's way. Not to mention the Illuminati didn't do anything wrong. The first earth they saw was eaten by Galactus, then they blew up a few worlds with no life, and then when the planet had people on it they all refused to do it. Namor is the only one who did anything Cap can complain about even thought his actions are the only reason anything still exists.
I'd agree with most of that, except Kang is by no means honest or omnipotent. He's both lied and been flat out wrong before.
Kang has absolutely no reason to lie about this. If an incursion happens he dies. Imordius has no reason to side with Kang. Iron Lad was an avenger and actually is decently trust worthy. That all aside they have seen time play out more times then anyone else, and if an incursion happens their reality is destroyed throughout all time, so it's a no win situation for them. Kang is like Thanos and Doom where he may be a villain and a lyer but he is very reliable when the stakes are high enough. Not to say they wouldn't back stab anyone, but some times their personal goals become irrelevant because the threats are so great like what happened in the Kang/Ultron War.
Franklin Richards also told him the he would made the Illuminati fail.
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