Yes, Roy is finally being trained by Arrow! As you likely know by now, the serum messes with his head and gives him some Hulk-esque anger issues. So, a good chunk of this episode is essentially Arrow trying to train Roy, Roy unleashing, and Oliver being disappointed. It's exactly what you'd expect and doesn't really bring anything new to the table, but it's the necessary step they have to take given the circumstances. In the end, this familiar path leads us to something much more promising. Also, now that Roy has above-average strength, it's kind of odd to have him unleashing -- you can see the rage in his eyes and all -- on someone with numerous punches to the skull and then said person has no visible damage or is even okay a couple scenes from then. Look, this show doesn't need gore or anything to impress, but it's definitely odd to have him punch through hard substances and then slug away at a human's head. Having him toss them around or something (kind of like what "Solomon Grundy" did to Arrow) would be less distracting and more impressive.

If you pay attention to the promos and such, then you know this episode marks the return of Bronze Tiger (love Felicity's remark about him, by the way). The character has a surprisingly cool intro and generates one solid fight scene. This show's melees have suffered from quick cuts, too many close-ups and an overuse of shaky cam, but this one was well-done and it allowed us to appreciate the choreography. Sure, it frustrates me to no end that Oliver knows he's going up against Bronze Tiger -- a dude with crazy reflexes -- and decides to go hand-to-hand instead of, you know, using a trick arrow. But it is what it is, I guess. Ultimately, though, Bronze Tiger's just here for that one solid brawl and, to be honest, the rest of his role is pretty disappointing. That said, this is yet another path that leads to an attention-grabbing moment. You definitely know what it is if you're a big fan of the show.

Laurel, I want to like you, I really do, but you're making it so difficult. I understand she's going through a really, really, really tough time, but to reject her dad after he opens up like that is just appalling. She simply doesn't do anything that makes you want to feel bad for her situation instead of dislike her. Thankfully, this frustrating road she's taking leads to someone's return (shame on you if you really don't know who Oliver calls!), so, it can be said that her downfall is for the greater good. It's just so disappointing she has to return to this status, though. I was thrilled when she was on Brother Blood's trail. She was finally in the right and could potential be a gamechanger in the story. But now it seems like she's just going to be the victim until she likely redeems herself at the end of the season.

What's going down with Oliver's mom is a little difficult to swallow after what happened to the city, but the premise definitely has potential to spice things up. Tremors just goes though the motions of establishing this new direction for us, but it's packed with potential when it comes to bringing back familiar faces and forcing Oliver into a closer connection to his family. Now it's just a matter of jumping into that.

Even though we know how it'll all conclude, the flashback segments on the island are still pretty engaging and my personal highlight of this episode. The drama feels so much stronger than what we're seeing in the modern segments, and that's saying a lot since we know what the future holds for the three leads. It's legitimately compelling at times and it's great watching them build up to the final conflict.

Tonight's episode pretty much feels like going through the motions before we can get to the really good stuff. The path leading to these plot points aren't all that exciting or even original, but once we get there (aka the final 10 minutes or so), it's pretty rewarding and helps build the hype for what's to come. Now it's just a matter of seeing whether they deliver on all of this potential!

I knew it was gonna be a 3 star(er)

OH MY GOD

Bronze Tiger on suicide squad just like slade was in arkham origins

Roy is part of the team

Black Canary returns!!!

Nyssa al ghul!!!

Can someone explain something to be me

How do you pronounce ras al ghul's name; rash or ras since in the movies its ras and the cartoons, games and arrow its rash

Im arab and we pronounce it ras because thats head in arabic

I liked it more than you did. The fight scene especially was wonderful. All of the action recently has been great.

@master_thief: It's pronounced "Ray-shh" or "raish'

I haven't liked Laurel since the show's beginning, and drunk Laurel was just plain ridiculous. She wasn't even drunk, just the actress doing a bad impersonation of a drunk person.

@the_stegman: It's Arabic for Demon's Head so Ras would be the better pronunciation

Doesn't the actually translation for the term kinda sound like "ra ess" though?

I respectfully disagree with the three star rating. I really enjoyed this episode. Laurel's character is annoying, but the whole drunk/drug issue has made her a lil more interesting.

Agreed 100%

I dont get the Laurel hate. Maybe its because I dont pay her any mind when she is on my screen. SUICIDE SQUAD DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was like, less than a handful of minutes and praised in the review :P

And Ollie, you're a crap tactician. You KNOW you're going after Bronze Tiger, a dude who previously wrecked you in h2h. Don't fire one arrow then rush him. USE A TRICK! I know it's all so they can show off the fight choreography, but man, that bugs me a little bit.

Aside from the final round of reveals, what did you like about the episode? To me, a 4 represents a very good episode, and, final teases aside, I don't feel like it deserved that, especially considering the other episodes which have earned a 4. But I guess we'll just agree to disagree, amirite?

I haven't either, but her story with Brother Blood had me optimistic. I mean, I get she's going through hell, but instead of making us feel bad for her, she just comes off as totally unlikable, you know?

How has her hitting rock bottom made her more interesting (aside from the fact it'll lure in another character)?

ugh Laurel

@k4tzm4n: Oh, I know you praised the action, I was just reaffirming it.

Yeah, tactics would have been cool...but meh. I wana see him fight :P

Anyway, I enjoyed Thea and Moira honestly. Moira especially, I like where they're going with that. You can all ready see they're going to play on the power struggle.

I also generally liked how Oliver handled Roy. Yeah he was a moody little baby, and I still don't like the actor but I generally liked how Oliver played mentor and how the experience reminded him and tied in with the island scenes.

More Michael Jai white an Roy slapping the water perfect

Cheap Plug to user review

I forget the issue but there was a point where Batman was trying to track him down and because of the fact that it's pronounced Raish and there are no areas anywhere that pronounce it that way he couldn't track his birthplace down

they made it a point in the books to explain why his name is pronounced differently than it should be

I liked the episode.

YES, SUICIDE SQUAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@master_thief: If your Arabic and you pronouncement Ra's.... It's probably Ra's lol. That's how I always said it too even though I was introduced to him as Raish.

You know what.... I'm going to throw you a follow because you seem like a generally nice person.

I actually enjoyed this episode (although like everyone else stated, seeing Laurel be miserable for so long was a bit annoying). Anyway, I can't wait to see what Amanda Waller will do with Michael Jai White's character and how Roy is going to fit into the Arrow group.

To me, laurel was just so blah! I mean she dated Ollie, he dated her sister, she dated tommy, only to fall back in love with Ollie. I neither felt sorry for her or cheered for her during that whole ordeal and quite frankly she kinda came across as a bit of a goody goody at times (IMO). But with the tragedies that the character has endured and her turning to substance because of it has taken some of the shine off her. She's a person that has fallen on some hard times and it's always interesting to see the depths that a person will sink to and how they climb out of it. I guess it's like watching a car crash or something.

Ah, happy to see it's not a "look at number of stars, POST DIFFERING OPINION" type of comment :D

Agreed, but it would be nice to see his combat intellect improved, too.

I didn't like or dislike it. I like the potential it could stem, but it's a matter of seeing how they handle that and this was just establishing the basics. I feel like that applies to the big things that are getting people excited in this episode (Suicide Squad, for example).

I don't mind Roy being a brat. He has the serum in him and it messes with his head, after all. I do, however, think Oliver should have tried a different approach with Roy, especially after seeing how it impacted Slade's emotions. Yes, he was teaching him how to control his strength, but tough love obviously isn't the best way to handle someone going through the effects of the serum -- let alone a teenager experiencing it. He didn't really appeal to his emotions until it all hit the fan and he needed to. Honestly, it's surprising Oliver was surprised when Roy once again lashed out in the garage. There was literally nothing to indicate the dude could control himself yet!

@k4tzm4n: Well - he's never mentored someone before.

Slade was actually HIS mentor. So I don't think it was unrealistic that maybe he took the wrong approach.

Besides, he was trying to teach Roy like he was taught originally with the water slapping. I thought it was pretty natural that he would want to do that.

And he told Roy to think of Thea earlier too. He just didn't get through to him until he showed him is real self and made more of a emotional connection (which is not easy for him)

So yeah. I like how it was handled.

does anyone here not like how they Treat Bronze Tiger, sure they got Micheal Jai White, but come on, he's jobbing, he should easily beat Ollie and Roy, especially since he took on Deathstroke in the Comics, so there's no Excuse for him getting his ass whooped

@fallschirmjager: Of course, but considering he's seen how the serum can make people lash out / lose control of their emotions, (and even stated how he understands that and has proven to be a good detective over the course of the show) you'd think he'd tone down the hard-ass approach just a little bit, no? Regardless, there's only one real reason his training was somewhat unsuccessful: so he'd be forced to reveal his identity to earn Roy's trust :P At any rate, this isn't even something I liked or disliked. I was just down the middle on it and found the conclusion to be the most exciting part of their team-up.

@k4tzm4n: That was always going to happen eventually though. I have no problems with it being now.

@k4tzm4n: I don't think you're thinking realistically about Laurel. I actually love the story they dealing with her right now and the actress is doing phenomenally well at the moment. The thing is the people sometimes can't handle their emotions well and become stress when someone passes and sometimes they avoid the people they care about the most that can help them willingly. Instead they turn into relaying on drugs because they "feel"it can make them better when it's actually not. I have dealt with friends and family like this many times. So, I can understand what she is going through and I feel they are doing this the right way.

I have none either. It's great that happened here instead of draaaaaaaaging that out.

I specifically state in the review I undestand she's going through hell, but instead of making an attempt to make us sympathize, they're making her blatantly unlikable and that's a common problem this show has. There's a big difference between making someone hit rock bottom and feeling bad for them as they fall apart/lash out and making someone hit rock bottom and turn into a completely unlikable ass and not give us any desire to see them improve. You care about your friends and want to help them, even when they become complete jerks. The problem here is enough hasn't been done to make us care about Laurel, especially after the reveal about how she got with Oliver in the first place.

@master_thief: It is Pronounced Rash in the comics and most cartoons. Everytime it's on a live movie or show however, it's pronounced Ras probably because of somebody didn't do research or because of some other dumb reason.

I called Amanda Waller and the Suicide Squad the second it showed her heel.

I just wanted to add that I love this site! I love how we can all disagree and have an honest as mature conversation about why we disagree. Unlike other sites that resort to name calling and other childish pranks, this site really has users that know how to have an intelligent conversation!

Btw...didn't Roy remind you a lil bit of Anakin?

YOU'RE STOOPID.

I mean, yeah, it's always nice to have a conversation which sticks to the points instead of name-calling and all that nonsense :D

@Master_Thief, don't quote me on this but I'm pretty sure that there is an old issue of Batman where it is explained that Ras al Ghul pronounces his name Rash even though it is not the proper Arabic pronunciation. I believe the issue claims that Ras comes from an Arabic speaking society which had a different dialect than most others. I also think that the issue mentions that Ras has outlived all the people who spoke with that particular dialect.

I agree with this review completely. There are a lot of great things coming down the pipe this season and possibly beyond but the Laurel stuff has become too much. She drags every episode down and I don't get why they have to write her this way. Her character trajectory is obvious to everyone. They are trying to tear her down completely so she can have that "hero's redemption" moment but she is so unlikable that I find it hard to root for that redemption. I just want her to go away. Almost everything that has happened to Laurel is her own fault and she continuously does the worst possible thing in every situation.

@k4tzm4n: Whoa, I didn't meant to make an argument here. I know what you stated. I guess we have different opinions on what we see in here. I do think they have done enough to make us (or I guess me in this case) care about her. In my eyes, she's emotionally wrecked and ignoring her friends because she lost someone she really loved which was Tommy and another added to that is she started to fall in love with Brother Blood, but since she notice he kept something secret from her, she instantly got her guard up and desperately try to rattle him out. But she found out she was wrong (when she actually wasn't, she just got tricked) and lost her job because everybody thought it was her being crazy. Now she feels alone and thus falling more and more on the deep end. Basically she doesn't know what to do with herself because she saw herself at the top when she was dealing with the case, but since she found the "truth" it brought her right back down more deeply.

@iceslick: I'm not trying to be mean or anything, just elaborating why I disagree. I'm well aware of what she's been through (I shouldn't be reviewing the show if I didn't :P ), I just don't agree that she's been handled well enough through it to create an emotional connection for me. Roy and Thea, I care about and want to see them thrive. Felicity, I care about. Oliver, I care about, Diggle, I care about. Moira, I care about. Laurel? Yeah, she's been through hell and back, but she's never been handled in a likable manner through any of it -- in my opinion, at least.

@k4tzm4n: That's the same thing I'm doing, lol. But every time I do that people seem to think I'm arguing with them. That's what happened with me and Tony which he mentioned in the podcast. I was just elaborating my opinion like I did here, but he saw it as arguing. And now everything I elaborate I'm tending to get scared.

This episode was fantastic. I really loved it.

Well, just wanted to make it clear after your "whoa argument" remark. Wanted to make sure you knew there's no hostility or anything in that post. I welcome an extended conversation. UNLESS YOU DISAGREE WITH ME THEN GO AWAY AND NEVER COME BACK. But yeah, always happy to chat about it.

@k4tzm4n: At first I had the same problem with her. But when it came around to the Brother Blood and her being drunk after trying to work as a firm, it made me forgive her a little and understand why she is the way she is. I guess I can root for her when you cannot. lol (By the way, I just saw your edited post)

@k4tzm4n: Ok, that's good. I always love extended conversation because I always feel it makes us smarter and better thinking or it's just good energy in my opinion.

Tip: When you see a girl just hit fast-forward. You're welcome.

Wow I wasn't expecting that low of score but I agree it was more set up than a complete arching story but it was good.

I guess I'm the only one who enjoyed the ride on train wreck laurel. Just seeing her take a face plant made my day. If I were directing this episode I would've shot that scene multiple times.

Arrow continues to bitchslap SHIELD.

@master_thief: lol Both Bronze Tiger and Deadshot are recruited by Waller in Origins Blackgate

– "So... The secret society gets a new member."

@k4tzm4n: Wow, K4tzm4n, I usually find myself measurably less exuberant about episodes of Arrow when I read your reviews (I don't mean that in a derogatory way; I just often have a difference of opinion) but this time you said pretty much everything I was thinking while watching the episode. Roy is normally my favorite character (along with Thea) but mirakuru (sp?) or not, I found little originality or intrigue in his training this episode. If anything, he and Oliver both came off as idiots. I was also was annoyed that Oliver, once again, just rushed into a fight with Bronze Tiger.

My final thoughts after the episode ended were that the set up for future episodes was more interesting and original than the actual plot of this episode. I'm glad to know that I'm not alone in that opinion.

And as a side note, am I the only one who is not digging Amanda Waller here? She doesn't really carry any of the intelligent abrasiveness you'd expect from her character. I'm a little bitter that she's not overweight, but even looking past that I just can't hop on board with this Waller unless she really has a presence when she enters a room.

Aaaaand... SARA IS BACK! I've been waiting for this all season. This series, in my opinion, was at its best when she was around.

@eagle_vision11454: I now but bronze tiger's scene reminded me of how deathstroke was recruited in his prison cell

I don't watch the show, but isn't it a little early in the game for Ollie to get a sidekick?

Roy's appearance is a little early isn't it?

Roy's been around since the first season and they've been slowly building to these two working on a much closer level, so nah, I don't think it's too early.