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    Ares

    Character » Ares appears in 779 issues.

    Ares is the son of Zeus and the Olympian God of War. After years of fighting against The Avengers, Thor, and mostly his own brother Hercules, Ares joined the ranks of the Avengers. He was a member of Tony Stark's official Avengers team and later Norman Osborn's Dark Avengers. After he attacked Osborn for tricking him in starting Siege on Asgard, he was stopped and killed by the Sentry.

    When has he demonstrated fighting skills?

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    seekquaze

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    #1  Edited By seekquaze

    Whenever I read vs. posts involving Ares responses usually go one of two ways. He loses due to being a hot-headed idiot who only swings his axe around or he wins due to superior fighting skills and tactics. What I would like to know is where has he demonstrated these supposed fighting skills or tactical abilities? The closest I can think of is his mini by Oeming that revamped him and some stealth tactics in his Dark Avengers mini. Maybe against A-bomb. In most of his fights all he does is swing his axe around relying on his durability and healing to let him last long enough. So where do people get the idea that he is a power house close to Hercules or can outfight beings on his level or higher?

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    LeeSensei

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    #2  Edited By LeeSensei

    He hasn't.

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    Enyalios

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    #3  Edited By Enyalios

    Unfortunately with Ares he is primarily used as a punching bag for a lot of the villains and falls as the but end of a lot of rather dubious circumstances (Bendis sucks with powerful characters), but it should be noted that often times in the comics, whole plot lines revolve around how his enemies are going to deal with him (such as when Moonstar makes a deal with Hel in order to gain enough power to take him on). He does have some decent showings to his credit, both directly and other characters' acknowledgement of who he is and what he is capable of:

    - He is the one that devised the strategy for Siege, whereby, had it not been for Loki switching sides, they would have one.

    - During the siege of Asgard none of the Asgardians are able to beat him, to include Balder (Thor would have been able to, but Thor was obviously busy at this point)

    - He is also the one that devised the plan to shrink and go inside Ultron to defeat him in his first real mission with the Avengers, and thereby saved Tony's life.

    - On two separate occasions, when Olympus is about to be overrun, the Olympian gods turn to him and he near singlehandedly reverses the tide of battle.

    - When the Mighty Avengers plan to storm Olympus, they realize that Ares needs to be taken out of the picture for them to win, so they send Venus to keep him busy.

    - His fight with A-Bomb

    - His fight with Skarr

    - He is the first one in Siege to physically wound Sentry/Void, actually drawing blood from him (granted he got ripped in half, but still).

    Demonstrations of skill, particularly with someone that uses weapons or a large weapon, is hard to show in a comic and is generally something that is acknowledged more than shown. There are clear exceptions for certain characters where writers and artists take great pains to show the skill of a particular character (Batman, Captain America, Black Panther, Daredevil, etc), but these are usually in solo titles and Ares pops up mostly in team books in recent years. Ares is not the only character to suffer from this. Wolverine we generally have to take on faith that he is as skilled as his reputation says he is, because the vast majority of his depictions show him taking hit after hit because he can and swinging his claws until he hits something. Even his movies show him just getting hit and swinging. Yet its pretty well accepted that he is among the best martial artists in the Marvel Universe.

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    seekquaze

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    #4  Edited By seekquaze

    @enyalios said:

    - He is the one that devised the strategy for Siege, whereby, had it not been for Loki switching sides, they would have one.- During the siege of Asgard none of the Asgardians are able to beat him, to include Balder (Thor would have been able to, but Thor was obviously busy at this point)

    - He is also the one that devised the plan to shrink and go inside Ultron to defeat him in his first real mission with the Avengers, and thereby saved Tony's life.

    - On two separate occasions, when Olympus is about to be overrun, the Olympian gods turn to him and he near singlehandedly reverses the tide of battle.

    - When the Mighty Avengers plan to storm Olympus, they realize that Ares needs to be taken out of the picture for them to win, so they send Venus to keep him busy.

    - His fight with A-Bomb

    - His fight with Skarr

    - He is the first one in Siege to physically wound Sentry/Void, actually drawing blood from him (granted he got ripped in half, but still).

    Demonstrations of skill, particularly with someone that uses weapons or a large weapon, is hard to show in a comic and is generally something that is acknowledged more than shown. There are clear exceptions for certain characters where writers and artists take great pains to show the skill of a particular character (Batman, Captain America, Black Panther, Daredevil, etc), but these are usually in solo titles and Ares pops up mostly in team books in recent years. Ares is not the only character to suffer from this. Wolverine we generally have to take on faith that he is as skilled as his reputation says he is, because the vast majority of his depictions show him taking hit after hit because he can and swinging his claws until he hits something. Even his movies show him just getting hit and swinging. Yet its pretty well accepted that he is among the best martial artists in the Marvel Universe.

    1. I don't think SIEGE is much to his credit. He does what he always does. He launched a head on attack riding a giant bomb fighting a battle that benefits the Asgardians. Some ranged weapons were excused out of fear of harming Broxton, but he still dropped soldiers within sword distance of Asgardians. He refused to use the Sentry to his full extent and did not have a real explanation. I presume Ares was not aware the Hood and his gang were part of his forces. Osborn was forced to call them in indicating the Asgardians were winning the battle. So he planned a battle where they would have lost at the rate it seemed to be going. Loki only switched sides when the Sentry got out of control and was a threat to everyone. Ares did not plan that. There is nothing he could have done if he had still been around. So I do not see as SIEGE being a feather in his cap.

    2. We only saw a brief fight with Balder. We do not know if Ares would have won. So we cannot say 100% one way or the other.

    3. IIRC, Skrull Pym was already thinking along those lines. Ares did want to use himself since he was an unknown to Ultron. I do give him rare kudos for that.

    3. Which given all of his other showings are very, very odd.

    4. I'm not sure how much of that was fear of Ares or more of keeping an unnknown from the battlefield. Ares is powerful enough that if you cannot hurt him he can be very dangerous regardless of being a hot-head. This particular Avengers team was not very powerful. Athena and Hercules would both be busy with the greater threats of Hera and Typhon. Ares would have been enough to tip the power balance in the favor of Hera.

    5. Yes, I do rank that as one of his impressive showings.

    6. Ehh, I am mixed on Skarr. Yes, Skarr is stronger than Ares and in their brief fight they were shown as holding their own. On the other how skilled a fighter is Skarr compared to Ares? Skarr is only a few years old and has no formal training. He has relied a lot on healing and power to survive. Ares has been in far more fights and that combined with his training should be able to defeat someone with a strength advantage and nothing else.

    7. To play devil's advocate here it came across as if he was the first one in a position to do so. Sentry was mostly flying around then. He also came across as more vulnerable to physical attacks then past battles.

    You are right in street characters are given a greater chance to show their skill. However, anyone can boast. For the boast to have meaning it has to have something behind it. Ares sadly does not have a whole lot compared to the opposite. Wolverine does have a lot of instances where he gets beat up until he hits something. In his favor, there are instances where he demonstrates skill. Same with Thor and Hercules. Maybe Ares has not been around enough, but if writers want him to be taken seriously as a highly-skilled fighter they have to show it.

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    Zijuun

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    He hasn't.

    This. ^ At least not MUCH. He has okay fighting skills, like he could hang in with Thor and Hercules in hand to hand combat, so he still has some. But he's not as good as say Iron Fist, Captain America, Black Panther or anyone else in that tier.

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    Enyalios

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    #6  Edited By Enyalios

    @seekquaze:

    1 - See I got the idea that Sentry was held back by Osborn, not Ares, since he was basically his guard dog by this point. And I presume he was aware of Osborn's forces (less Loki), to include the Hood. Ares had little qualms of who he was teamed with, hence why he accepted the Dark Avengers in the first place, despite their obvious problems. His goal was not to destroy Asgard, he made that clear, it was to remove Loki, who Osborn had convinced him had taken over. He did not plan for Loki at all, since in his mind he was the enemy. Regardless walking into Asgard with a bunch of D list villains and still doing damage is notable in terms of strategy.

    2 - Yes the fight with Balder was brief, but the fact that he was able to get to the King of Asgard is notable. I'm confident Ares would have beaten Balder but Balder had a psychological edge in that fight so it would have been good.

    3 - Skrull Pym may have been thinking along those lines but he did not broadcast his plan prior to Ares telling him he was going to do. The credit went to him.

    4 - You still proved my point in that one.

    5 - We are in synch.

    6 - By that rationale wins against the Hulk are unimpressive and the fact that Hercules and Thor have fits with him make them weak. Any strength advantage the Hulk has on them is marginal at best and they have been around a lot longer and are definitely more skilled.

    7 - Thor was the first one to lay a hand on Sentry in that fight, he just couldn't wound him (he did knock the hell out of him though).

    Oh I concur wholeheartedly with your statements here, if writers want to display someone as a good fight it has to be written that way. However most characters have their own books where they can shine somewhat. Thor, Hercules, even Wolverine shine the most in their own books. Wolverine has the advantage of being insanely popular therefore other books with him tend to revolve around him, but he is the exception other than the norm. Ares has limited series and in those books he shines but those are all he has.

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    turel_hash_ak_gik

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    #7  Edited By turel_hash_ak_gik

    being able to handle a foe like hercules who is much stronger than he is isnt enough skill?

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    seekquaze

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    @enyalios said:

    @seekquaze:

    1 - See I got the idea that Sentry was held back by Osborn, not Ares, since he was basically his guard dog by this point. And I presume he was aware of Osborn's forces (less Loki), to include the Hood. Ares had little qualms of who he was teamed with, hence why he accepted the Dark Avengers in the first place, despite their obvious problems. His goal was not to destroy Asgard, he made that clear, it was to remove Loki, who Osborn had convinced him had taken over. He did not plan for Loki at all, since in his mind he was the enemy. Regardless walking into Asgard with a bunch of D list villains and still doing damage is notable in terms of strategy.

    2 - Yes the fight with Balder was brief, but the fact that he was able to get to the King of Asgard is notable. I'm confident Ares would have beaten Balder but Balder had a psychological edge in that fight so it would have been good.

    3 - Skrull Pym may have been thinking along those lines but he did not broadcast his plan prior to Ares telling him he was going to do. The credit went to him.

    4 - You still proved my point in that one.

    5 - We are in synch.

    6 - By that rationale wins against the Hulk are unimpressive and the fact that Hercules and Thor have fits with him make them weak. Any strength advantage the Hulk has on them is marginal at best and they have been around a lot longer and are definitely more skilled.

    7 - Thor was the first one to lay a hand on Sentry in that fight, he just couldn't wound him (he did knock the hell out of him though).

    Oh I concur wholeheartedly with your statements here, if writers want to display someone as a good fight it has to be written that way. However most characters have their own books where they can shine somewhat. Thor, Hercules, even Wolverine shine the most in their own books. Wolverine has the advantage of being insanely popular therefore other books with him tend to revolve around him, but he is the exception other than the norm. Ares has limited series and in those books he shines but those are all he has.

    1. Your assuming a lot without any basis. In the mission briefing before the battle Bullseye ask outright about having Sentry trashing the place and the most we get out of Ares is "that is not a plan." Maybe Osborn didn't want that since he was trying to treat the Asgardians as a major threat. But the reason Ares gave makes no mention of that. As for the hood, Ares worked with the Dark Avengers because he still thought Osborn and the rest were marginally on the side of the heroes. He should have known the Hood and his gang were not. All Osborn said was he had backup. He kept the knowledge of the Hood working for him a secret so we cannot think Ares factored them into his planning. If he though Loki was his enemy then that is something you DO plan for. He knew Loki was a powerful sorcerer and master of trickery. Loki only involved himself when the Sentry went nuts which Ares did not plan for. Finally, Ares launched a head on attack with more than a bunch of D-listers. He has the support of the U-Foes, Heroes Initiative, and hundreds if not thousands of HAMMER troops armed with modern weapons, air craft, etc. ANYONE could do a lot of damage with that type of armor even without bothering to use tactics.

    2. Ares was dropped off in the city past Asgard's defenses with an enemy that was caught off guard and has little in the way of air defense. It is not like he fought through hundreds of Asgardians to get to him. Balder once defeated Skurge who is stronger than him through fighting skills. Ares does have the strength and healing factor advantages, but against a more skilled enemy with a weapon that can hurt you that is not always enough. Anyway, depending on the outcome of the fight I'm not sure how much that would mean. Most of Ares' victories are against enemies weaker than him. It is only against those who are close to his level or higher that truly earn one points.

    4. No, I didn't. The issue with this topic is Ares demonstrating fighting skill. I agreed that if you cannot hurt Ares someone at his power level can be extremely dangerous even if all he does is swing his ax around with a modicum of skill against weaker enemies whose chances of being able to hurt you are slim at best. The heavy-hitters Hercules and Athena were occupied by the more dangerous Typhon and Hera. This is not a testament to Ares' skill level.

    6. I do not recall Ares defeating Skaar only stalemating him until Wolverine and Skaar withdrew. And one of the common criticisms of whenever Thor or Hercules fight Hulk. They do not dominant with their fighting skills and instead prefer to brawl it out with him. However, in their cases we have other examples of them demonstrating their skills as warriors. I say the same for Ares.

    7. Thor and Ares were using different weapons. Ares's axe is design to penetrate compared to a hammer that was design to break bones.

    At the end of the day my issue is that some people try to claim Ares is a Captain America/Shang-Chi level fighting and general as well. I have not seen anything that proves that. I agree Ares has some decent fighting skills, but he relies far more on raw power and durability. I have not SEEN anything that shows he is more than an average fighter. Until he does I cannot agree with anyone who claims he has fighting skills on that level.

    being able to handle a foe like hercules who is much stronger than he is isnt enough skill?

    In Ares's case it is not. Often when the two fight it is a brawl. Herc's goal is often to knock out Ares, but not kill him. Whenever Ares has fought someone like Hulk or Thor who is not in the mood to play around he gets crushed in short order. Hulk koed him twice with one blow each time. Ares didn't dodge. Thor once koed Ares whose own power was augmented times three in short order when in a hurry. Another time an insane Thor beat Ares to the point of death Yes, both are far more powerful than Ares, but if his fighting skills were as great as some people claim I would think Ares would do better.

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