Please make Aquaman great again

Posted by Liberty (9192 posts) - - Show Bio
A New King
Like several of my blogs this one was inspired by a previous writing.  I was reading a great blog by Amegashita at http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion/1/four-things-i-see-wrong-with-the-comic-book-industry-today/620087/ 
 
In the last twenty years Aquaman has changed drastically and yet somehow not at all.  Aquaman has been on the edge of being one of DC's top characters and yet even he is subject to the whims of an their unsure vision.  In 1993 Aquaman was about as exciting as a bowl of white rice.  He couldn't even sustain his own book.  That was until Peter David wrote for the character and changed his look and character for better.  Aquaman soon looked more like an ancient king with his beard and long hair.  He was like a super-powered King Arther.  He got rid of his orange shirt and wore armour like a gladiator.  He also did something that I am normally dead set against.  He lost his hand.  The reason this was an exception is because what was done with the character afterwards.  He was interesting again!  
 
 Dolphin
Aquaman looked and acted like the character always should have.  He also had interesting supporting characters.  Remember when Dolphin wore his orange shirt as a dress.  It was a more heroic look then the daisy dukes outfit albeit not as revealing.  Last but not least was Aquaman's hand was not replaced by some overly cybernetic technological prosthetic that is somehow only available to superhero characters in the DC universe.  His hand was basically a hook.  Not only was it simple and elegant it was appropriate for his character.  He had a unique look now.  He stood out.  He no longer looked like a blonde Superman.  He was a man handicapped by his missing hand and yet still a powerful hero.  No matter how cool his hook arm was it was still a hook.  He may of had other powers but he was still handicapped and that made him relateable.  In the DC Animated Universe the loss of his hand was an even more powerful story when he cuts it off his own hand to save the life of his son from the otherwise certain death at the hands of his own brother.  That is a biblical story of epic proportions worth of a superhero.
 
The series started by Peter David lasted 77 issues not counting annuals and specials and was the longest run the character ever had.  The decision was made to cancel the book and this was the last nail for the peak of Aquaman.  After that Aquaman was changed again and again piece by piece reverting him back to the stale charter he was when it all started.  Now it is 2011 and Aquaman, Hal Jordan and Barry Allen are back like it is the 1960's again.  Character's need to change and grow but it needs to be done well and the long standing implications need to be considered.  Why change Aquaman back to the boring character of the 1960's?  He was a successful, modern, appealing and needed to grow.  Why revert Aquaman back?  Why bring back characters like Hal and Barry when you have correctly replaced them with Kyle and Wally?  And can someone tell me why we still have Superhero's wearing panties on the outside of their spandex tights? 
 
DC is rebooting many aspects of it's universe.  I hope they get it right.  Unfortunately, I don't think they will. 
#1 Posted by JairamGanpat (952 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree entirely. This guy's been ridiculed for too long. Before I got into comics I thought this guy was a loser but that was BEFORE I saw the HOOK. The hook was one of the greatest things that ever happened to him bit I have a question, what's your opinion on the dehydrating touch thing he had for a while?

#2 Posted by Liberty (9192 posts) - - Show Bio
@JairamGanpat said:
I agree entirely. This guy's been ridiculed for too long. Before I got into comics I thought this guy was a loser but that was BEFORE I saw the HOOK. The hook was one of the greatest things that ever happened to him bit I have a question, what's your opinion on the dehydrating touch thing he had for a while?
Thank you.  As for the hand I never liked it much.  The power was kind of neat but would better fit a bad guy.  It also had too many abilities for a hand made out of water.  Even if it is magic.  It was given to him by the lady of the lake.  The same one who gave The Real King Arthur's Excalibur.  The sword wasn't even close to being as powerful as the hand.
#3 Posted by The Stegman (23022 posts) - - Show Bio

i agree with everything here (except the crack on heroes wearing panties on the outside, they're not panties, they're apart of the tights just colored different, i don't see the big deal) also i sorta like Aquaman's rebooted look. 
 
 
 

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#4 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm taking bets on how long he has two hands!
 
Last time he kept it for a whole two issues!

#5 Posted by sj_esposito (457 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree that Aquaman was never better than during PAD's run; in fact, it's one of my favorite runs in comics. I want to see him taken back to the core of what PAD did to make him a great, relatable and non-boring hero, and if anyone can do it, it's Johns. 
 
I disagree with what you said about Barry and Hal, though. To me, those characters weren't ever replaced by Wally and Kyle, they were supplemented. I think Hal, Barry and Arthur are characters that need to be in the DCU; they're icons. There's no reason why we can't have silver age and modern age characters coexisting in contemporary books -- we've had great success with this formula in the past few years. Hal's return has launched GL to a whole new level, and Johns did it in such a way that Kyle, John and Guy didn't suffer, but actually thrived. Barry's return fell a little bit flatter for non-Flash fans -- that is, I don't think it had the impact that Hal's did -- but for someone like me, Barry's return and the 12 issues there after have been awesome.

#6 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked the Batman: Brave and the Bold Aquaman. Sure, he was a comic relief character, but when they wanted him to get serious he got serious. I liked the hook-hand animated character as well, but I'm sick to death of dark, brooding characters. He shouldn't be a waterlogged Batman. Aquaman really should be a cross between an Arthurian king and some sort of secret agent. The sun never sets on the Atlantean Empire, even if it can't reach all of its depths. But he can be stately and still have a sense of humor. 
 
I actually really liked the Sub-Diego storyline too.

#7 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg
I like that version too XD he makes me laugh and is acctually a BA!

#8 Posted by Amegashita (3601 posts) - - Show Bio

  Thanks for the shout-out Liberty!  I'm glad I could help inspire an awesome writing from you.  Like I said before, I agree with you on everything.  
 
@sEsposito7 said:

I disagree with what you said about Barry and Hal, though. To me, those characters weren't ever replaced by Wally and Kyle, they were supplemented. I think Hal, Barry and Arthur are characters that need to be in the DCU; they're icons. There's no reason why we can't have silver age and modern age characters coexisting in contemporary books -- we've had great success with this formula in the past few years. Hal's return has launched GL to a whole new level, and Johns did it in such a way that Kyle, John and Guy didn't suffer, but actually thrived. Barry's return fell a little bit flatter for non-Flash fans -- that is, I don't think it had the impact that Hal's did -- but for someone like me, Barry's return and the 12 issues there after have been awesome.
  You may not agree with them being replaced but the thing is that, after Barry and Hal died, Wally and Kyle came in respectively and not only did they live up to the names of the previous mantle holders, they surpassed them.  Kyle rejuvenated the Green Lantern Corps and brought back the once dead corps to new heights, and Wally coined the speed force and he's done greater things than Barry ever did as Flash.  Barry and Hal aren't really iconic, it's the names that people attach to them.  The Flash is iconic, but most people don't even realize there's a person behind the mantle, and the Green Lantern is iconic, but once again, most people don't recognize Hal Jordan.  But there have been characters that took on a mantle, and failed at it, Connor Hawke couldn't hold up to the legacy that Oliver Queen set forth, so he was brought back prematurely.  What Liberty is saying in this blog is that, at one point it seemed like DC was finally letting characters grow, but for a logn time now, they've slowly been retconning this growth, and with the revamp that's coming up, they're basically redoing everything that has been put out there.  
#9 Posted by Liberty (9192 posts) - - Show Bio
@sEsposito7: I profoundly disagree about Hal and Barry.  Kyle did not thrive after Hal came back.  Hal was so bland and dull he was replace by Kyle.  The Hal of today is more like Guy and Kyle than he ever was like Hal use to be.  Barry was dead for thirty years and was very successfully replaced.  I really think Johns does more damage than good in the DCU.
 
@The Stegman: The art was is great but the look is 50 years old. 
 
@fodigg: You are right Aquaman should not be a waterlogged Batman.  He was much more better under Peter David.
#10 Posted by Liberty (9192 posts) - - Show Bio
@Amegashita: Really well said.
#11 Posted by sj_esposito (457 posts) - - Show Bio
@Amegashita said:
  You may not agree with them being replaced but the thing is that, after Barry and Hal died, Wally and Kyle came in respectively and not only did they live up to the names of the previous mantle holders, they surpassed them.  Kyle rejuvenated the Green Lantern Corps and brought back the once dead corps to new heights, and Wally coined the speed force and he's done greater things than Barry ever did as Flash.  Barry and Hal aren't really iconic, it's the names that people attach to them.  The Flash is iconic, but most people don't even realize there's a person behind the mantle, and the Green Lantern is iconic, but once again, most people don't recognize Hal Jordan.  But there have been characters that took on a mantle, and failed at it, Connor Hawke couldn't hold up to the legacy that Oliver Queen set forth, so he was brought back prematurely.  What Liberty is saying in this blog is that, at one point it seemed like DC was finally letting characters grow, but for a logn time now, they've slowly been retconning this growth, and with the revamp that's coming up, they're basically redoing everything that has been put out there.  
I'm not denying that Kyle and Wally filled the roles of Green Lantern and Flash really well -- they did -- but, I wouldn't consider them to have replaced the silver age heroes in anyway. 
 
I don't understand how you don't consider Hal and Barry to be icons, but I suppose it's just a difference of opinion. 
 
I understand what Liberty is saying, and I agree to an extent. Some characters have been treated better than others in the midst of all the retconning, but this a banality that we should be accustomed to by now; it happens too often in comics. I hope Aquaman is restored to the greatness that was PAD's vision for the character, and I hope Kyle takes a larger, more prominent role in the GL side of the universe, but I think to disparage Hal or Barry is wrong.
#12 Posted by Amegashita (3601 posts) - - Show Bio
@sEsposito7:  They did replace them becuase for the many years Kyle and Wally were their respective roles, not many people even realized that this Green Lantern and this Flash was different from the previous ones.  On the note of the characters being iconic, it's the mantles they carry that are iconic, not the characters themselves.  When I started reading comics, I didn't even know that there was 2 Flashes before Wally, let alone did i know they even had names.  In fact, who were the respective Green Lantern and the Flash in the cartoon series Justice League, it certainly wasn't Barry Allen or Hal Jordan.  It was Wally West and John Stewart, and so many kids grew up with Wally West and John Stewart, not just in comics, but on TV every Saturday.  So when the Justice League movie came out with Hal and Barry, most of these children didn't understand what was going on, their Green Lantern was black, and their Flash was Wally.  But, no matter, it's a difference of opinions.  I respect your view on this subject.
#13 Posted by The Stegman (23022 posts) - - Show Bio
@Liberty: Superman, Batman flash and green lantern more or less have had the same look for 50 + years, i don't mind it 
 
although i do like Arthur Joseph Curry's costume better 
 
 
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#14 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84510 posts) - - Show Bio

Right now Flashpoint Aquaman is f'n badass.

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#15 Posted by Liberty (9192 posts) - - Show Bio
@sEsposito7: I think what you are missing is Jay Garrik and Alan Scott were the originals, but they needed to be changed.  They needed to be updated.  Enter Hal and Barry they also needed to be updated from who they were.  Enter Wally and John and Kyle.  DC recognizes that these characters need to evolve and change but their is always someone holding on to the past.  No we have five earth Green Lanterns, four flashes and I'm not sure how many Aquaman's their have been.  The mantles never get passed on.  There is no growth.  I'm not saying kill these characters or anything like that but if you are not growing your dying.  There is no third direction.  If you like Barry and Hal I would think you would want them to  grow as characters and not be reverted back to the way they were over fifty years ago.  Think about it.  What else in you life is like that.  No one besides the elderly sit around listening to 78's anymore.  if you know what that is you get my point if not that tells you how outdated they are.  Either way works.  One last thing.  Everything I wright here is friendly and I am thrilled to debate with you.  Please don't misread my tone.  I am glad you are here.
#16 Posted by sj_esposito (457 posts) - - Show Bio
@Amegashita said:
@sEsposito7:  They did replace them becuase for the many years Kyle and Wally were their respective roles, not many people even realized that this Green Lantern and this Flash was different from the previous ones.  On the note of the characters being iconic, it's the mantles they carry that are iconic, not the characters themselves.  When I started reading comics, I didn't even know that there was 2 Flashes before Wally, let alone did i know they even had names.  In fact, who were the respective Green Lantern and the Flash in the cartoon series Justice League, it certainly wasn't Barry Allen or Hal Jordan.  It was Wally West and John Stewart, and so many kids grew up with Wally West and John Stewart, not just in comics, but on TV every Saturday.  So when the Justice League movie came out with Hal and Barry, most of these children didn't understand what was going on, their Green Lantern was black, and their Flash was Wally.  But, no matter, it's a difference of opinions.  I respect your view on this subject.
I get what you're saying, and I agree to an extent. I happen to be of the age that grew up with John Stewart being the Green Lantern -- I actually wrote a blog about this a while ago -- and Wally as the Flash, so I definitely understand what you're saying. However, there's also a whole generation or three that grew up with Hal Jordan and Barry Allen, and to them, they are the iconic Green Lantern and Flash.  
 
You're right, it's all a matter of opinion and subjectivity; I guess it depends on which characters you grew up reading over the years.
#17 Posted by sj_esposito (457 posts) - - Show Bio
@Liberty said:
@sEsposito7: I think what you are missing is Jay Garrik and Alan Scott were the originals, but they needed to be changed.  They needed to be updated.  Enter Hal and Barry they also needed to be updated from who they were.  Enter Wally and John and Kyle.  DC recognizes that these characters need to evolve and change but their is always someone holding on to the past.  No we have five earth Green Lanterns, four flashes and I'm not sure how many Aquaman's their have been.  The mantles never get passed on.  There is no growth.  I'm not saying kill these characters or anything like that but if you are not growing your dying.  There is no third direction.  If you like Barry and Hal I would think you would want them to  grow as characters and not be reverted back to the way they were over fifty years ago.  Think about it.  What else in you life is like that.  No one besides the elderly sit around listening to 78's anymore.  if you know what that is you get my point if not that tells you how outdated they are.  Either way works.  One last thing.  Everything I wright here is friendly and I am thrilled to debate with you.  Please don't misread my tone.  I am glad you are here.
I understand what you're saying about keeping the characters up to date -- and you're completely right -- I just happen to think John's has done this fairly well. 
 
And I'm thrilled to debate with you also -- it's what Comic Vine is all about. You wrote an interesting and thought-provoking blog, and I'm glad I stumbled across it.  
#18 Edited by Billy Batson (57751 posts) - - Show Bio

Agreed. Aquaman with the hook hand was great. 

 

I hope DC will make him great again. Bring the hook back!

BB

#19 Posted by Liberty (9192 posts) - - Show Bio
@sEsposito7: Thank you again.
#20 Posted by batflasharrow96 (445 posts) - - Show Bio

HE STILL IS GREAT!!! PEOPLE WHO COMPLAIN ARE JUST NOT TRUE FANS!!! HE STILL HAS THE SAME PERSONALITY THAT HE HAD FOR MOST OF THE HOOK HAND ERA!!!

#21 Posted by Liberty (9192 posts) - - Show Bio
@batflasharrow96 said:
HE STILL IS GREAT!!! PEOPLE WHO COMPLAIN ARE JUST NOT TRUE FANS!!! HE STILL HAS THE SAME PERSONALITY THAT HE HAD FOR MOST OF THE HOOK HAND ERA!!!
That is one of the worst posts ever.  True fans complain because they care!  Not the opposite.  Only the fare-weather fans go with whatever is done to the character because deep down they don't care.  So in your opinion you wouldn't complain if they changed Aquaman into Snooki because "your a real fan".
#22 Edited by batflasharrow96 (445 posts) - - Show Bio
@Liberty: No because most people are like ''Why can't Aquaman be like he was before in the 90s'' when he's the same, he just has a different look. What I meant by people who complain and aren't true fans I mean is that they don't notice he's not that much different. It means they aren't proper fans if they don't notice.
#23 Posted by Liberty (9192 posts) - - Show Bio
@batflasharrow96: If that is what you are saying I would disagree as the newest version of Aquaman has only been around for the last year.  It is hard to argue that he is the same as he was in the 1990's.  With the DC Reboot that is coming in September it is hard to even know how the character will develop.  That says your newest post makes a lot more sense.  I'm glad you explained what you meant.
#24 Posted by batflasharrow96 (445 posts) - - Show Bio
@Liberty: Thanks, i'm happy you didn't make it an argument,lol. Most people really freak out with me
#25 Posted by Liberty (9192 posts) - - Show Bio
@batflasharrow96: It is easier when I know what you are saying.  =]

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