Octagon Enigma says:

"crazy spidey says:

"Octagon Enigma says:

"Eugenics was invented by Sir Francis Galton, before Darwin. It was also used by the Nazis. And please don't start that "thread is over" stuff. Threads are over when they are over, no one person can decide the time (save for the mighty three admins)."

and Hitler is a folower of Darwin"

And there's my point. Everyone likes to believe that, but how can we know? He was a f*cking brilliant manipulatist, how do we know he didn't just claim that so he could eliminate the "weak?""

I have nooooooo idea wat ur talking about. maybe he manipulated everyone to think that ww2 happened wen it didnt. OMG. but no, he was a follower. theres proof that he is, so unless u can disprove the proof, ur just shooting smoke

How old are you?

Octagon Enigma says:

"How old are you?"

16, and until u can come up with some proof that hitler wasnt a follower, then I dont know where u get ur ideas

I'll have to agree on Octagon in this one We (the germans) called him Führer (which means leader)

crazy spidey says:

"Octagon Enigma says:

"How old are you?"

16, and until u can come up with some proof that hitler wasnt a follower, then I dont know where u get ur ideas"

I stated my reasoning plainly: He was a f*cking brilliant manipulatist. He could make people think what he wanted. And Hitler was not a follower of anyone, he was a leader.

Octagon Enigma says:

"crazy spidey says:

"Octagon Enigma says:

"How old are you?"

16, and until u can come up with some proof that hitler wasnt a follower, then I dont know where u get ur ideas"

I stated my reasoning plainly: He was a f*cking brilliant manipulatist. He could make people think what he wanted. And Hitler was not a follower of anyone, he was a leader."

right, now I think ur giving him a bit(waaayyyyy) to much credit. Like I said I respect Hitler but he wasnt a god,he was great at motivation etc. and a leader, but alot of his plans and propaganda were made by other ppl. And from his early years (as obvious in Mein Kampf) he was a follower of Darwin

Warlock360 says:

"I'll have to agree on Octagon in this one We (the germans) called him Führer (which means leader)"

WAT? because he made everyone call him Mein Furer doesnt mean he didnt repect or was influenced greatly by other people. Christ, He s not god.

I've read Mein Kampf. A few times. Have you?

Octagon Enigma says:

"I've read Mein Kampf. A few times. Have you?"

extracts and u can see his Social Darwinian theories in it

crazy spidey says:

"Warlock360 says:

"I'll have to agree on Octagon in this one We (the germans) called him Führer (which means leader)"

WAT? because he made everyone call him Mein Furer doesnt mean he didnt repect or was influenced greatly by other people. Christ, He s not god."

xD i wasnt sayin he is/was i ment he made other ppl believe he was! he would have been great for germany if he hadnt done that war stuff and the things what he did with the jews... 95% Of the streets that we have today in Germany were made under hitlers command and btw how did this come from APOCALYPSE WAS WRONG! to say no to hitler (from a guy with a parathetic hitler avatar)?^^

Warlock360 says:

"crazy spidey says:

"Warlock360 says:

"I'll have to agree on Octagon in this one We (the germans) called him Führer (which means leader)"

WAT? because he made everyone call him Mein Furer doesnt mean he didnt repect or was influenced greatly by other people. Christ, He s not god."

xD i wasnt sayin he is/was i ment he made other ppl believe he was! he would have been great for germany if he hadnt done that war stuff and the things what he did with the jews... 95% Of the streets that we have today in Germany were made under hitlers command and btw how did this come from APOCALYPSE WAS WRONG! to say no to hitler (from a guy with a parathetic hitler avatar)?^^"

ummmmm... WIR MUSSEN DIE JUDEN AUSTRACHEN

crazy spidey says:

"Warlock360 says:

"crazy spidey says:

"Warlock360 says:

"I'll have to agree on Octagon in this one We (the germans) called him Führer (which means leader)"

WAT? because he made everyone call him Mein Furer doesnt mean he didnt repect or was influenced greatly by other people. Christ, He s not god."

xD i wasnt sayin he is/was i ment he made other ppl believe he was! he would have been great for germany if he hadnt done that war stuff and the things what he did with the jews... 95% Of the streets that we have today in Germany were made under hitlers command and btw how did this come from APOCALYPSE WAS WRONG! to say no to hitler (from a guy with a parathetic hitler avatar)?^^"

ummmmm... WIR MUSSEN DIE JUDEN AUSTRACHEN"

It's: WIR MÜSSEN DIE JUDEN AUSROTTEN! and it means we have to eliminate/terminate/vanquish the jews! ^^

Warlock360 says:

"crazy spidey says:

"Warlock360 says:

"crazy spidey says:

"Warlock360 says:

"I'll have to agree on Octagon in this one We (the germans) called him Führer (which means leader)"

WAT? because he made everyone call him Mein Furer doesnt mean he didnt repect or was influenced greatly by other people. Christ, He s not god."

xD i wasnt sayin he is/was i ment he made other ppl believe he was! he would have been great for germany if he hadnt done that war stuff and the things what he did with the jews... 95% Of the streets that we have today in Germany were made under hitlers command and btw how did this come from APOCALYPSE WAS WRONG! to say no to hitler (from a guy with a parathetic hitler avatar)?^^"

ummmmm... WIR MUSSEN DIE JUDEN AUSTRACHEN"

It's: WIR MÜSSEN DIE JUDEN AUSROTTEN! and it means we have to eliminate/terminate/vanquish the jews! ^^"

ein volch ein reich ein fuhrer.

crazy spidey says:

"Warlock360 says:

"crazy spidey says:

"Warlock360 says:

"crazy spidey says:

"Warlock360 says:

"I'll have to agree on Octagon in this one We (the germans) called him Führer (which means leader)"

WAT? because he made everyone call him Mein Furer doesnt mean he didnt repect or was influenced greatly by other people. Christ, He s not god."

xD i wasnt sayin he is/was i ment he made other ppl believe he was! he would have been great for germany if he hadnt done that war stuff and the things what he did with the jews... 95% Of the streets that we have today in Germany were made under hitlers command and btw how did this come from APOCALYPSE WAS WRONG! to say no to hitler (from a guy with a parathetic hitler avatar)?^^"

ummmmm... WIR MUSSEN DIE JUDEN AUSTRACHEN"

It's: WIR MÜSSEN DIE JUDEN AUSROTTEN! and it means we have to eliminate/terminate/vanquish the jews! ^^"

ein volch ein reich ein fuhrer. "

LOL

= ONE RACE ONE EMPIRE ONE LEADER

I find it strange to say someone would go as far as to say Apocalypse goal is correct so that makes him right.  He's a nefarious savage that deserves to be on the top 10 list of Marvel's Eviliest Super Villains.
 He's not much different than Joker except he can use the whole crap about survival of the fittest to say he's doing nothing wrong.

Apocalypse is a fool. There are mutants who are well above him and he thinks that he is at the top. 

"

crazy spidey says:

"Warlock360 says:

"crazy spidey says:

"Warlock360 says:

"crazy spidey says:

"Warlock360 says:

"I'll have to agree on Octagon in this one We (the germans) called him Führer (which means leader)"

WAT? because he made everyone call him Mein Furer doesnt mean he didnt repect or was influenced greatly by other people. Christ, He s not god."

xD i wasnt sayin he is/was i ment he made other ppl believe he was! he would have been great for germany if he hadnt done that war stuff and the things what he did with the jews... 95% Of the streets that we have today in Germany were made under hitlers command and btw how did this come from APOCALYPSE WAS WRONG! to say no to hitler (from a guy with a parathetic hitler avatar)?^^"

ummmmm... WIR MUSSEN DIE JUDEN AUSTRACHEN"

It's: WIR MÜSSEN DIE JUDEN AUSROTTEN! and it means we have to eliminate/terminate/vanquish the jews! ^^"

ein volch ein reich ein fuhrer. "

LOL

= ONE RACE ONE EMPIRE ONE LEADER

"

Thank you, Crazy Spidey  
You have created an informative and amusing thread. I must add you are quite right and very bright for someone your age.
Given the info you provided, I like to point out the fact that Dawin was born on February 12, 1809, and passed away 19 April 1882. While Apocalypse is alledged to have been born and reared during the Ptolemaic Dynasty of Ancient Egypt. That's a few millenium of indoctrination prior to the siring of the aforementioned author. I think the writer who came up with Apocalypse's personal philosophy did borrow from Social Dawinism and the Nazi party - as many writers do when creating a supervillain - to give the character depth and intimidation. They probably didn't research it out any further than that, because the idea of a superhuman with a superiority complex and a 'might makes right' attitude sells itself. Whatever spin they put on it makes for a very compelling story, however. Wouldn't you agree?

Ok Apoc is wrong and so now what?

Darwin didn't coin the term "Survival of the fittest" in any case. He also meant it in exactly the way that Apocalypse uses it, in that natural selection comes from the ability of a species to adapt in order to survive their immediate environment. This applies to mutants in a very specific way, and is the reason it is Apocalypse's tagline. Mutants are adaptations to mankind's environment - Earth (post-Industrial Revolution, for the most part). Mutants have enhanced abilities which make it more likely for them to survive their natural environment, and even some unnatural ones.
 
In real life, natural selection is being overridden by mankind's ability to adapt our environment to suit our own needs. Hope this helps dispel some strange notions regarding this topic.

What he meant was "Survival of the fit enough.", since that's what evolution is.
 
It just came out wrong.

" What he meant was "Survival of the fit enough.", since that's what evolution is. It just came out wrong. "

" Darwin didn't coin the term "Survival of the fittest" in any case. He also meant it in exactly the way that Apocalypse uses it, in that natural selection comes from the ability of a species to adapt in order to survive their immediate environment. This applies to mutants in a very specific way, and is the reason it is Apocalypse's tagline. Mutants are adaptations to mankind's environment - Earth (post-Industrial Revolution, for the most part). Mutants have enhanced abilities which make it more likely for them to survive their natural environment, and even some unnatural ones. In real life, natural selection is being overridden by mankind's ability to adapt our environment to suit our own needs. Hope this helps dispel some strange notions regarding this topic. "

" @The Mast said:

" What he meant was "Survival of the fit enough.", since that's what evolution is. It just came out wrong. "

No, he was quoting Herbert Spencer. "

Erm:
 
 http://www.darwinproject.ac.uk/entry-5140#back-mark-5140.f5
 
Natural selection is what it has always referred to. Natural selection is not survival of the fittest.

Spencer always understood the term "Fit", in the context of his saying, to mean "Those equipped best to survive and adapt.". If that's the case, it's survival of the fit enough. Those who prove to be good ENOUGH to survive, survive. It's a tautology.

" @The Mast:  thats the same thing. "natural selection" allows those that adapt better to overcome  those who do not, hence, "the fittest survive ". this was the same credo Apocalypse was practicing as well, specifically focused in the adaptions of mutants. "

"  Not really.  Apocalypse believed in the survival of one area because HE deemed it the most advanced and thus, better for the Earth. Like Hitler believed regarding jews, he believes for everyone who isn't a mutant.  That's not natural selection at all. "

So, we can agree that Apocalypse was not right, he was wrong and has always been wrong.  He isn't judging based on what's best for the world, he's judging based on what Apocalypse believes is best for the world...his world.
 
He interprets the phrase incorrectly, as is often the case.

"He interprets the phrase incorrectly"

" @The Mast said:

"He interprets the phrase incorrectly"

He uses the phrase in exact accordance with how Darwin used it (metaphorically, not literally). Fittest = best adapted to survive, not the most physically fit. Darwin (the mutant) is a perfect example of this. He survives, because he adapts - that is what he does. Is he "the fittest", physically speaking? No, of course not. The phrase "survival of the fittest" can be interpreted in a number of ways. The interpretation that Apocalypse uses is just as valid as your own, even if it is not the interpretation used in modern science. "

" @The Mast:  did you even read my post? have you read the comics in question? im under the belief right now that  the answer is no. there isnt anything confusing to me. Apocalypse got the quote right. how is Apocalypses ideal world a factor in that? especially considering that isnt his ideal world, you should try reading the comics first. he is in a constant state of mutation and striving himself to be the fittest because he actually knows the future, and he knows he needs to be the best adapted to not only survive, but to be the fittest of all. how he applicatesthe theory doesn't make a difference in its meaning. still is the same theory either way. if Darwin advanced his own  evolution to become the Alpha it wouldnt change the theory, which is an observation of an event in nature. "

" @The Mast: Apoc. sees himself as the best. He would kill everyone below him and weaker than him. "

" @The Mast:  sorry but no. it was a theory of what was happening, not an application, again. and who is he killing? right, hes not. he's just adapted to survive, and he in fact employs those equally as adapted to him, improves them to save them if need be, and has hung with another such group, the Externals for ages. again, the reading the comics.  because the things your making up dont even so much as match the old animated series even. Darwin had a theory of a principle that works in nature. it doesnt deny meaning in that belief to be working with it. it means Apocalypse believes that that theory is in fact a fact, and he's living with it in the forefront.   nuff said. i said what i thought and you dodged it. im well aware you like 4 page arguments, and should inform you your usual sparring partner/nemesis is online right now.  good day. "

"What would be Apocalypse's ideal world? A world in which he decides who is best and kills off whoever isn't, then rules them. He misinterprets the quote. That's not what Darwin meant at all. Not sure why this is so confusing for you. "

Apocalypse preaches Social Darwinism but doesn't follow it himself. He's a hypocrite.