All-New X-Men #12

Posted by G-Man (32633 posts) - - Show Bio

The Good

With each issue of ALL-NEW X-MEN, I just can't get enough. We've seen many time travel stories but there's something about seeing the young X-Men from the past trying to adjust to everything in the present. There is that tragic innocence of the team and as they discover more and more of what the Marvel Universe is like today, you get a clearer idea of just how much has changed. We know comics can be crazy and this is a great way to illustrate how far things have come since the early days of the Marvel U.

We get some great interactions between the two teams. You don't really think about what the different relations and potential reactions waiting to happen. Young Cyclops and Havok would have a lot to talk about. There's also the fact that these X-Men only know Scarlet Witch as part of Magneto's Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. It's the little things like this that help make this series a blast.

The fact that we have two teams clashing could have resulted in the stereotypical encounter. There is some surprise and tension but it doesn't come across as cliché, thankfully. Brian Michael Bendis gives a great mix of emotion and reactions in this meeting. Considering it's mainly about this meeting and there isn't a lot of other stuff going on, it's still a highly enjoyable issue.

With each issue that Stuart Immonen does, I love his art more and more. He's created a great feel for the difference in the old and current versions of the characters. There's so many panels filled with tension and you can feel it from the expressions on the characters' faces.

The Bad

Seeing what Jean does has been fascinating. But her reaction to Scarlet Witch's presence and involvement in M-Day seemed a little weird. We know she completely read the current day Beast's memories so you would think she'd be aware of what happened to mutants in recent years. Granted she had to take in a lot of information back in that trip through Hank's mind but even if he wasn't directly involved in the events, she should still have picked up on what's happened.

I'm not completely crazy about Mystique's storyline in the series. It's not completely clear what her full intentions are and that is part of the story - seeing it unravel. I'm just finding myself more concerned with the young X-Men and their reactions/adventures versus what Mystique, Sabretooth and Lady Mastermind are up to.

The Verdict

I can't get enough of this series. Bendis and Immonen continue to make this series a blast. In an issue that pulls back the action, we still get so much story. The meeting of the young X-Men and the Uncanny Avengers opens up some great interactions and that's what's so fun about this series. Mystique and her crew are still up to their usual shenanigans but it's more about the potential explosive nature of the young X-Men being in the present. This is exactly the amount of good times and storytelling I want in my X-Men comics.

Staff
#1 Edited by LiveForever (276 posts) - - Show Bio

Very interesting issue, especially considering not much happens (oh, hey Bendis), but one thing still bothers me.

Scarlet Witch: "You're accusing me of things I did not do consciously."

What the hell was it when Cyclops killed Xavier then?! You can't say that was fully conscious! I could swallow all of the hypocrisy from Wolverine, Beast, Scarlet Witch & Cap if it was POINTED OUT IN THE NARRATIVE by someone!

It drives me nuts.

#2 Posted by DDangelico (219 posts) - - Show Bio

@g_man Just noticed this has the Uncanny Avengers in it. Would you consider this a tie-in? I'm reading Uncanny Avengers, but not All-New X-Men so I don't want to miss anything essential to the story.

Thanks!! (And great review BTW!)

#3 Posted by LiveForever (276 posts) - - Show Bio

@g_man Just noticed this has the Uncanny Avengers in it. Would you consider this a tie-in? I'm reading Uncanny Avengers, but not All-New X-Men so I don't want to miss anything essential to the story.

Thanks!! (And great review BTW!)

Naw, their inclusion has more to do with the X-Men than it does Uncanny Avengers. Maybe if you're a hardcore completionist.

#4 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7029 posts) - - Show Bio

God, I hope Havok beats the shit out of Cyclops like he did to Vulcan. Scott really needs someone to pummel his brain into the pavement. Perhaps that can readjust his brain.

#5 Edited by Sleepbutnodream15 (570 posts) - - Show Bio

One thing I've notices about this series is that every issue has just been one interaction. Bendis takes the old x-men and have them meet present day characters. We see how they react, and then the issue ends. It almost feels like the original 5 are being brought up to speed on how the present Marvel works.

That being said, I've actually really liked this series. I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy seeing the interactions and reactions of the past and present characters. Most importantly, I LOVE the art! I'm just hoping that more things start happening in the upcoming issues.

Also, f**k Wanda for saying that she wasn't in control of herself on M-Day. They've written her, Beast, and Wolverine as huge hypocrites over the last couple years.

#6 Posted by Oscars94 (2475 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf: Not Young Scott, leave the kid alone :D He's having a tough time.

#7 Posted by G-Man (32633 posts) - - Show Bio

@sleepbutnodream15: Didn't CHILDREN'S CRUSADE kinda clarify that she wasn't fully in control?

Staff
#8 Posted by LiveForever (276 posts) - - Show Bio

Young Jean also comes across as a massive hypocrite considering SHE has consumed worlds herself under the influence of another power. And we know she knows that.

#9 Posted by DJ1107 (244 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Posted by lorex (954 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice review. When Jean fliped out started shouting at Wanda I really wanted Wanda to respond with something like 'You want to compade body counts, mine does not come close to matching yours Jean' and really shut her down and leave Jean with even more questions.

Also I just want to poing out the blatent hypocracy of giving Wanda a break even though through her actions millions of mutants dies yet when Scott was taken over by the Phoenix force and went too far he is branded a 'Mutant Menace' and is on the run. I can only conclude is Wanda's actions resulted in the deaths of mutants and Scott's actions made him a threat to the current world order.

#11 Posted by vPuik (83 posts) - - Show Bio

I probably would not be reading this book without Immonen's art. (or the guy who did few issues and looked just like Immonen) Ok, maybe I still would since it's really good.

#12 Posted by Overlander (483 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the not fully in control argument is going to be a big thing for Jean, but also for Cyclops' road to redemption. If Scarlet "no More Mutants" Witch can be an everyday member of the Uncanny Avengers, then Cyclops will be back on top in no time.

#13 Posted by brucecapell (101 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean killed herself before DP took over and she is still dead. This young Jean had not done any of that. All she's done is use her powers like any teen with powers would esp a passionate girl. I do find myself tuning in every issue to see what Jean gets up too.

#14 Posted by notorious_g3 (25 posts) - - Show Bio

but one thing still bothers me.

Scarlet Witch: "You're accusing me of things I did not do consciously."

What the hell was it when Cyclops killed Xavier then?! You can't say that was fully conscious! I could swallow all of the hypocrisy from Wolverine, Beast, Scarlet Witch & Cap if it was POINTED OUT IN THE NARRATIVE by someone!

It drives me nuts.

This!

Is it just me or are the remaining Originals beginning to understand present-day Scott?

#15 Edited by SolthesunGod (278 posts) - - Show Bio

@g_man said:

@sleepbutnodream15: Didn't CHILDREN'S CRUSADE kinda clarify that she wasn't fully in control?

What Children's Crusade clarified is that rather than losing her mind because of hereditary mental illness, trauma or even her powers, everything came down to a choice that Wanda herself made.

She decided to seek help from Doom because she wanted to channel enough black magic to fight Mephisto. She said specifically she picked Doom because of his lack of ethics. The fact that she did all this in secret and went through villainous channels rather than her heroic allies give the impression she knew what she was doing was risky to herself and others. Magic always has a cost. I think as a mother she decided that saving her children was the most important thing and sod the consequences to her or anyone else for that matter.

Ultimately her behaviour is very human but that doesn't make her innocent of her crimes. She might not have been in charge of her faculties when she said "no more mutants" but she was sane when she went to Doom. It was a bad call but that doesn't mean she was crazy at the time. Wanda herself described her mental state then as desperate not crazy.

I see the Scarlet Witch situation as someone knowingly taking an hallucinogenic, killing someone and then saying "well it wasn't my fault I didn't know what I was doing at the time because of the drug". At the end of the day the victim in that case wouldn't have died if not for the bad call the drug user made. The mutants wouldn't be dead if Wanda herself hadn't of made her bad decision. Given that Scarlet Witch is a veteran super hero and magic user as well as someone of high intelligence there is NO WAY she didn't see a catastrope coming from a mile way from her actions. She simply didn't care. All she wanted was her kids back and price ended up being with her inflicting her own tragedy onto hundreds of other mother's across the globe. I don't think she should be rewarded with her kids and her old life back.

Also on another note I actually thought this was a great issue. It was by far an improvement on Immonem's previous work. I thought I saw genuine progression in how he's drawing faces. Some of those shots of Jean in particular were fantastic. The cinematography was also great. I thought it was really impressive how Bendis, Immonem and Beredo used the ambient and the quinjet light to set the tone in a very consistent way. I also wondered when Jean was lashing out at Wanda was she also lashing out at herself? From Hank memories she must know about D'Bari. I think it's become more ambiguous over time just how responsible if at all she was in the destruction of that world.

#16 Edited by tximinoman (226 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean didn't overreact. Scarlet Witch doesn't deserve to be an Avenger, she deserves to be thrown in the deepest and darkest pit and be left to die there. And I'm not saying this just because what happened the M-Day. She has always been unstable and dangerous. Back when she was in the West Coast Avengers she went mad, fought against the team and gave Wonder Man a blowjob IN FRONT OF EVERYONE, years later she destroyed the Avengers killing some of them in the process, and before the M-Day she locked everyone up in her own reality.

She's way too dangerous and way too unstable to be trusted.

#17 Edited by SolthesunGod (278 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean didn't overreact. Scarlet Witch doesn't deserve to be an Avenger, she deserves to be thrown in the deepest and darkest pit and be left to die there. And I'm not saying this just because what happened the M-Day. She has always been unstable and dangerous. Back when she was in the West Coast Avengers she went mad, fought against the team and gave Wonder Man a blowjob IN FRONT OF EVERYONE, years later she destroyed the Avengers killing some of them in the process, and before the M-Day she locked everyone up in her own reality.

She's way too dangerous and way too unstable to be trusted.

That wasn't a blowjob she was scratching him.

#18 Edited by Hawkguy (571 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone else think Captain America was more jerkier than ever in this?

#19 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (6655 posts) - - Show Bio

Another dope Issue!

#20 Edited by Michael_Moran (86 posts) - - Show Bio

Does anyone else not like havocs mask

#21 Edited by notorious_g3 (25 posts) - - Show Bio

Does anyone else not like havocs mask

As much as I like Immonen, his Havok was the worst... Lose the mask. Alex is the public face of the team, his identity is known, why wear a mask?

#22 Posted by Jacobin_Wisdom (89 posts) - - Show Bio

@liveforever: CHILDREN'S CRUSADE proved she was not in control, Scott has yet to provide valid proof.

#23 Edited by Jacobin_Wisdom (89 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawkguy: In my opinion he has always been a self-righteous jerk.

#24 Posted by Owie (3696 posts) - - Show Bio

Very interesting issue, especially considering not much happens (oh, hey Bendis), but one thing still bothers me.

Scarlet Witch: "You're accusing me of things I did not do consciously."

What the hell was it when Cyclops killed Xavier then?! You can't say that was fully conscious! I could swallow all of the hypocrisy from Wolverine, Beast, Scarlet Witch & Cap if it was POINTED OUT IN THE NARRATIVE by someone!

It drives me nuts.

I was hoping someone was going to point this out to one of the Avengers, it was so obvious a comparison. It better happen soon because it is crazy not to.

@hawkguy said:

Anyone else think Captain America was more jerkier than ever in this?

He gets jerkier all the time. Honestly I can't even understand his motives at this point. He's just a complete jerk constantly, like for instance yelling at Havok for having a moment with his brother.

Does anyone else not like havocs mask

Havok's mask was always cheesy, but the new version is even worse than the original.

But after all that complaining, I enjoyed this issue. Good for Havok for bonding with his brother, and good for Jean for not shutting up.

#25 Posted by Hawkguy (571 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie: I know, I've always been drawn to cap, but he's becoming a douche. Not only did he yell, he was waggling his finger like a parent to their little child. In his defense, there have been a few rough times for the guy but sheesh, whatever happened to the goodness in Steve Rogers?

#26 Posted by Owie (3696 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawkguy said:

@owie: I know, I've always been drawn to cap, but he's becoming a douche. Not only did he yell, he was waggling his finger like a parent to their little child. In his defense, there have been a few rough times for the guy but sheesh, whatever happened to the goodness in Steve Rogers?

Yeah, he's supposed to be the role model for goodness and consideration, but I think in the attempt to make him "cool and edgy" they have instead made him an ass.

#27 Edited by HexThis (898 posts) - - Show Bio
@solthesungod said:

@g_man said:

@sleepbutnodream15: Didn't CHILDREN'S CRUSADE kinda clarify that she wasn't fully in control?

What Children's Crusade clarified is that rather than losing her mind because of hereditary mental illness, trauma or even her powers, everything came down to a choice that Wanda herself made.

She decided to seek help from Doom because she wanted to channel enough black magic to fight Mephisto. She said specifically she picked Doom because of his lack of ethics. The fact that she did all this in secret and went through villainous channels rather than her heroic allies give the impression she knew what she was doing was risky to herself and others. Magic always has a cost. I think as a mother she decided that saving her children was the most important thing and sod the consequences to her or anyone else for that matter.

Wanda didn't pursue Doom solely because of his lack of ethics, my guess is that she felt as though she should go outside of the superhero catchment seeing as how the Avengers lied about her kids having died for years. Why would she trust the Avengers? Or Dr. Strange who is heavily associated with them?

It was irresponsible but could Wanda have predicted that it would've been so devastating? She resurrected Wonder Man with no problem at all, she resurrected Magneto unconsciously, Agatha Harkness was alive because of her. No consequence in any case. Her kids died, she had reality-altering powers, she was grieving- I don't think there's a single parent who wouldn't capitalize on that opportunity if they had it.

By the way, the X-men have protected Magneto and he's killed many, many people knowingly without any influence otherwise.

Jean's hypocrisy really bothered me though, I kind of felt like it was a poor characterization because she devoured a star and killed a planet and she knows full well. She looked like a jerk and that's coming from someone who loves Jean.

#28 Edited by Gray_Star (10 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm just hating, REALLY hating Steve Rogers lately. It's a complete jerk with just everyone ._. even with kids.

#29 Posted by stormphoenix (929 posts) - - Show Bio

Right now in this issue I just DO NOT like Cap Or Wanda.

#30 Posted by victorcheenoanleu (137 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Posted by victorcheenoanleu (137 posts) - - Show Bio

besides Havok's new costume just pi$$ing me off everytime I see it this was an alright issue. Didn't really go nowhere, can we just kick up the pace from fast to furious? (lol) Anyways, but for reals, Havok's shiz costume needs to go away soon!

#32 Edited by Lokheit (492 posts) - - Show Bio

@liveforever said:

Very interesting issue, especially considering not much happens (oh, hey Bendis), but one thing still bothers me.

Scarlet Witch: "You're accusing me of things I did not do consciously."

What the hell was it when Cyclops killed Xavier then?! You can't say that was fully conscious! I could swallow all of the hypocrisy from Wolverine, Beast, Scarlet Witch & Cap if it was POINTED OUT IN THE NARRATIVE by someone!

It drives me nuts.

This is what I came here to say.

They had all the pieces to formulate the real question but at the end no one did it and I think someone should've done it:

- First Alex tells young Scotty that present Scott is telling things to himself about what happened in Xavier's death to live with it.

- Then when Jean asks about the Scarlet Witch they say that it's ok because she wasn't in control...

The question: Why Wanda is innocent and Scott isn't was in the air, they should've made it and slap all hypocrites there with it. Scott was not just out of his mind, he was possesed by a comic entity! And he didn't lose it until the Avengers started poking him until he got angry.

I'm beginning to think all you need to prove your innocence is be Steve's buddy or himself:

- Wanda goes crazy and decimates mutankind, but it's OK because Cap has feelings for her. Scott goes possesed, is poked until he can't control it anymore and kill 1 person (less than Wolverine, Wanda, Beast...) but as he didn't hook up with Cap he isn't innocent.

- Scott wants Hope to get the Phoenix Force but caps decides that if someone is going to save the planet it's him so without knwoing anything about the PF he starts smashing at them and at the end his team causes the PF to posses them. Then when those possesed X-Men start doing good stuff for the planet he realizes that the one doing good stuff isn't him, so that can't be right and he thinks that they will end up going crazy... so he decides the best idea would be to poke them with a stick non-stop!! Absolutely genious!! And then to solve things Cap USES SCOTT ORIGINAL PLAN and it works... but because it was Cap who took the decission and not Scott it's alright.

- Beast discovers Scott's X-Force and gets mad at him, leaves the team and from there thinks Scott is a psychopath to the point he risks the whole reality just to prove his point (when really he left because he was mad at them letting Osborn torture him a bit longer than needed as part of a plan, but he told to himself that it was because Scott is bad to justify his actions and hypocresy). Later he becomes a part of Steve's Secret Avengers and during a mission HE KILLS MILLIONS (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than either Scott's X-Force or Scott while possesed) and he only needed Steve (Steve, not Scott of course) telling him it was for a greater good to feel ok about that. If it had been Scott he would've hated him for that (he already was mad at him for a similar decission in a lesser scale by Scott during Secret Invasion).

- Aditionally when Beast joins Wolverine school he discovers that Wolverine continued with X-Force when Scott decided it was enough. Did he leave the school? Nay, he's just mad at Scott because Osborn tortured him and his feelings are hurt. He could live with Wolverine's team killing others because they weren't Scott. And again, he risked the whole reality because he was going to die anyway so he didn't care about others life if his own was going to end without proving his point.

Basically they're all a bunch of hypocrites at this point. I think the young X-Men are starting to see it but I think that question shoud've been done and I the fact that they didn't makes me think it will never be made so all the hypocrites can stand there looking like saints.

#33 Posted by JamDamage (1114 posts) - - Show Bio

WOW IS BENDIS JUST KILLING IT!!! Reading this, and DD End of Days.......................wow...........................I'm still a freak for Rick Remender right now, and anyone who read Uncanny X-Force jumped on the Remender bandwagon and is enjoying the ride, but Bendis man. He just stellar as of lately. All his runs have been great. Might Avengers was.......ugh............but this title, and this has been my favorite of the series so far, Ult. S.M. Uncanny X-Men and his Daredevil End of Days mini are just great every issue. Everyone is up Geof Johns ass, and Scott Snyders ass, but Bendis delivers just as much as those guys, and better if you ask me, but that's a debate for later. Think I'll start a forum about it. Anyone who didn't read DD End of Days needs to also. Get the issues, pick up the trade, what ever. It's a classic for sure.

#34 Posted by ScarletBatman (364 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie:

@owie said:

@hawkguy said:

@owie: I know, I've always been drawn to cap, but he's becoming a douche. Not only did he yell, he was waggling his finger like a parent to their little child. In his defense, there have been a few rough times for the guy but sheesh, whatever happened to the goodness in Steve Rogers?

Yeah, he's supposed to be the role model for goodness and consideration, but I think in the attempt to make him "cool and edgy" they have instead made him an ass.

You try being the peerless leader of Super Heroes, then suddenly being put under the command of a guy like Havok.

#35 Edited by GREGalicious (473 posts) - - Show Bio

@liveforever:

I think Wanda is half right. There were a lot of factors that further triggered M-Day. It wasn't just Wanda acting on her own. The actions of Quicksilver and Magneto did nothing but fuel the flames of an already bad situation and they are every bit as much to blame for everything that happened. You don't try and manipulate a mentally unbalanced and confused person (with ridiculous power) and expect good things to happen.

#36 Posted by SolthesunGod (278 posts) - - Show Bio

@hexthis said:
@solthesungod said:

@g_man said:

@sleepbutnodream15: Didn't CHILDREN'S CRUSADE kinda clarify that she wasn't fully in control?

What Children's Crusade clarified is that rather than losing her mind because of hereditary mental illness, trauma or even her powers, everything came down to a choice that Wanda herself made.

She decided to seek help from Doom because she wanted to channel enough black magic to fight Mephisto. She said specifically she picked Doom because of his lack of ethics. The fact that she did all this in secret and went through villainous channels rather than her heroic allies give the impression she knew what she was doing was risky to herself and others. Magic always has a cost. I think as a mother she decided that saving her children was the most important thing and sod the consequences to her or anyone else for that matter.

Wanda didn't pursue Doom solely because of his lack of ethics, my guess is that she felt as though she should go outside of the superhero catchment seeing as how the Avengers lied about her kids having died for years. Why would she trust the Avengers? Or Dr. Strange who is heavily associated with them?

It was irresponsible but could Wanda have predicted that it would've been so devastating? She resurrected Wonder Man with no problem at all, she resurrected Magneto unconsciously, Agatha Harkness was alive because of her. No consequence in any case. Her kids died, she had reality-altering powers, she was grieving- I don't think there's a single parent who wouldn't capitalize on that opportunity if they had it.

By the way, the X-men have protected Magneto and he's killed many, many people knowingly without any influence otherwise.

Jean's hypocrisy really bothered me though, I kind of felt like it was a poor characterization because she devoured a star and killed a planet and she knows full well. She looked like a jerk and that's coming from someone who loves Jean.

YES. Her plan had catastrophe written all over it. This isn't the golden age Wanda. She was a veteran. Get a supervillian to supercharge you so you can fight the devil! I mean come on. We know she wasn't crazy at that point so she'd have to debilitating stupid to not see people were going to die. The way she went about things, acting in secret makes it clear she knew she was doing wrong. Even she knows that. Jean read her mind. Wanda thinks she killed all the mutants. Jean reacted to Wanda's own interpretation of events.

As for Magneto, I think it's different. I expect the Scarlet Witch to be better a human than him. Why isn't she doing anything for families that she's hurt? Like giving them an explanation as to why their children died? Sitting in a jail cell? Going to court? She understands that loss better than anyone. It made even the moral Scarlet Witch totally compromise her ethics. Even if she feels guilty on the inside rejoining the Avengers isn't the way to redemption. It's picking up things were she left off. I understand your frustration Hexthis. She used to be one of my favourites but unfortunately those stories did happen and she killed lots of innocent people. That needs to followed through on. That event should actually prompt a change in her direction and it hasn't. She's just back on the Avengers and they as public servants wrote off th deaths of innocents because their friend was responsible. That's an abuse of power and totally wrong.

I don't think it can be hypocrisy on Jean's part yet. Teen Jean hasn't committed a crime yet. I think her violent reaction was in part based on her own horror about knowing what her future self did to D'Bari.

#37 Posted by simple_man815 (12 posts) - - Show Bio

@lokheit said:

@liveforever said:

Very interesting issue, especially considering not much happens (oh, hey Bendis), but one thing still bothers me.

Scarlet Witch: "You're accusing me of things I did not do consciously."

What the hell was it when Cyclops killed Xavier then?! You can't say that was fully conscious! I could swallow all of the hypocrisy from Wolverine, Beast, Scarlet Witch & Cap if it was POINTED OUT IN THE NARRATIVE by someone!

It drives me nuts.

This is what I came here to say.

They had all the pieces to formulate the real question but at the end no one did it and I think someone should've done it:

- First Alex tells young Scotty that present Scott is telling things to himself about what happened in Xavier's death to live with it.

- Then when Jean asks about the Scarlet Witch they say that it's ok because she wasn't in control...

The question: Why Wanda is innocent and Scott isn't was in the air, they should've made it and slap all hypocrites there with it. Scott was not just out of his mind, he was possesed by a comic entity! And he didn't lose it until the Avengers started poking him until he got angry.

I'm beginning to think all you need to prove your innocence is be Steve's buddy or himself:

- Wanda goes crazy and decimates mutankind, but it's OK because Cap has feelings for her. Scott goes possesed, is poked until he can't control it anymore and kill 1 person (less than Wolverine, Wanda, Beast...) but as he didn't hook up with Cap he isn't innocent.

- Scott wants Hope to get the Phoenix Force but caps decides that if someone is going to save the planet it's him so without knwoing anything about the PF he starts smashing at them and at the end his team causes the PF to posses them. Then when those possesed X-Men start doing good stuff for the planet he realizes that the one doing good stuff isn't him, so that can't be right and he thinks that they will end up going crazy... so he decides the best idea would be to poke them with a stick non-stop!! Absolutely genious!! And then to solve things Cap USES SCOTT ORIGINAL PLAN and it works... but because it was Cap who took the decission and not Scott it's alright.

- Beast discovers Scott's X-Force and gets mad at him, leaves the team and from there thinks Scott is a psychopath to the point he risks the whole reality just to prove his point (when really he left because he was mad at them letting Osborn torture him a bit longer than needed as part of a plan, but he told to himself that it was because Scott is bad to justify his actions and hypocresy). Later he becomes a part of Steve's Secret Avengers and during a mission HE KILLS MILLIONS (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than either Scott's X-Force or Scott while possesed) and he only needed Steve (Steve, not Scott of course) telling him it was for a greater good to feel ok about that. If it had been Scott he would've hated him for that (he already was mad at him for a similar decission in a lesser scale by Scott during Secret Invasion).

- Aditionally when Beast joins Wolverine school he discovers that Wolverine continued with X-Force when Scott decided it was enough. Did he leave the school? Nay, he's just mad at Scott because Osborn tortured him and his feelings are hurt. He could live with Wolverine's team killing others because they weren't Scott. And again, he risked the whole reality because he was going to die anyway so he didn't care about others life if his own was going to end without proving his point.

Basically they're all a bunch of hypocrites at this point. I think the young X-Men are starting to see it but I think that question shoud've been done and I the fact that they didn't makes me think it will never be made so all the hypocrites can stand there looking like saints.

This, so much this!

#39 Posted by Mutie199 (135 posts) - - Show Bio

@lokheit said:

@liveforever said:

Very interesting issue, especially considering not much happens (oh, hey Bendis), but one thing still bothers me.

Scarlet Witch: "You're accusing me of things I did not do consciously."

What the hell was it when Cyclops killed Xavier then?! You can't say that was fully conscious! I could swallow all of the hypocrisy from Wolverine, Beast, Scarlet Witch & Cap if it was POINTED OUT IN THE NARRATIVE by someone!

It drives me nuts.

This is what I came here to say.

They had all the pieces to formulate the real question but at the end no one did it and I think someone should've done it:

- First Alex tells young Scotty that present Scott is telling things to himself about what happened in Xavier's death to live with it.

- Then when Jean asks about the Scarlet Witch they say that it's ok because she wasn't in control...

The question: Why Wanda is innocent and Scott isn't was in the air, they should've made it and slap all hypocrites there with it. Scott was not just out of his mind, he was possesed by a comic entity! And he didn't lose it until the Avengers started poking him until he got angry.

I'm beginning to think all you need to prove your innocence is be Steve's buddy or himself:

- Wanda goes crazy and decimates mutankind, but it's OK because Cap has feelings for her. Scott goes possesed, is poked until he can't control it anymore and kill 1 person (less than Wolverine, Wanda, Beast...) but as he didn't hook up with Cap he isn't innocent.

- Scott wants Hope to get the Phoenix Force but caps decides that if someone is going to save the planet it's him so without knwoing anything about the PF he starts smashing at them and at the end his team causes the PF to posses them. Then when those possesed X-Men start doing good stuff for the planet he realizes that the one doing good stuff isn't him, so that can't be right and he thinks that they will end up going crazy... so he decides the best idea would be to poke them with a stick non-stop!! Absolutely genious!! And then to solve things Cap USES SCOTT ORIGINAL PLAN and it works... but because it was Cap who took the decission and not Scott it's alright.

- Beast discovers Scott's X-Force and gets mad at him, leaves the team and from there thinks Scott is a psychopath to the point he risks the whole reality just to prove his point (when really he left because he was mad at them letting Osborn torture him a bit longer than needed as part of a plan, but he told to himself that it was because Scott is bad to justify his actions and hypocresy). Later he becomes a part of Steve's Secret Avengers and during a mission HE KILLS MILLIONS (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than either Scott's X-Force or Scott while possesed) and he only needed Steve (Steve, not Scott of course) telling him it was for a greater good to feel ok about that. If it had been Scott he would've hated him for that (he already was mad at him for a similar decission in a lesser scale by Scott during Secret Invasion).

- Aditionally when Beast joins Wolverine school he discovers that Wolverine continued with X-Force when Scott decided it was enough. Did he leave the school? Nay, he's just mad at Scott because Osborn tortured him and his feelings are hurt. He could live with Wolverine's team killing others because they weren't Scott. And again, he risked the whole reality because he was going to die anyway so he didn't care about others life if his own was going to end without proving his point.

Basically they're all a bunch of hypocrites at this point. I think the young X-Men are starting to see it but I think that question shoud've been done and I the fact that they didn't makes me think it will never be made so all the hypocrites can stand there looking like saints.

This, so much this!

i feel very happy to see that i am not the only one to see the hypocrisy, the double standards and the hate towards Cyclops and his x-men and the clean slate that all the murderous Avengers get (Wolverine, Scarlet Witch, Beast who was also upset with Scott having an X-Force team but ok with Wolverine's X-Force). I think Marvel needs to realize this has reached a point where its just frustrating to read.

#40 Edited by tomlikesfries (4643 posts) - - Show Bio

Jeez, I got extremely mad when Wanda said "You're accusing me of things I did not do consciously!".

Has Bendis forgotten the events of AvX already? After all, they're all chasing Scott for something he did while possessed by the Phoenix.

#41 Posted by leokearon (1790 posts) - - Show Bio

As Hank Pym said, " to be redeemed you have to take responsibility for what you’ve done and be sorry"

Wanda knows what she did, she regrets it, she has taken responsibility for it and is trying to make amends.

Scott on the other hand, hasn't learnt a thing, after everything he has done since Messiah Complex, he still thinks he's right and doesn't regret his actions. Even Emma got annoyed when Scott tried to shift all on his actions during A Vs X on the Phoenix, when she knew that wasn't the case.

#42 Edited by avanderbilt25 (2 posts) - - Show Bio

The excuse making for Cyclops needs to stop. People are still bringing up M-Day concerning Wanda which is understandable but just dismiss her and Hope restarting the mutant race or does the line no more phoenix mean nothing now.

#43 Posted by Imperfect (22 posts) - - Show Bio

@avanderbilt25:

What about all those mutant kids that die, does that line save them ?

#44 Posted by avanderbilt25 (2 posts) - - Show Bio

@imperfect

Which kids? No more phoenix restarted the mutant population. If you already had powers after M-Day you didn't lose them when mutants started popping up again.

#45 Posted by strejda (13 posts) - - Show Bio

@leokearon: Excep not? Scott does regret his actions and took full responcibility for it. Hell, he was trying to get himself killed for it. But not taking influence by Phoenix into consideration is stupid and hypocritical.

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