Hey, Alan Moore.....STFU

#1 Edited by why_you_mad_tho (67 posts) - - Show Bio

When ever Alan Moore is brought up, i automatically think of someone who's career consists of making money off other peoples work. Watchmen, the most persistent source of Alan's tirades was based on pre existing comic characters. Just about every famous literally character you can think of has made it on the pages of the Alan Moore's The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. And yet, for some reason, every single time I hear about this crotchety old vag fart, he's complaining about someone "messing with his work". And how this guy and that guy is devoid of any ideas. This is a quote from moore i read earlier today that literally made me laugh out loud.

" As far as I know, there weren’t that many prequels or sequels to Moby Dick.”

This is the man who turned Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, Dorian Gray, Ishmael from Moby Dick, the invisible man and Captain Nemo into crime fighting Super heroes. Does he seriously believe that Lewis Carroll, Frank Baum, and J. M. Barrie would approve of Moores portrayal of their characters in lost Girls? Yes i can totally see, Baum being ok with Dorothy being turned into a sex addicted coke whore who has sex with her own father. Im sure Mr. Barrie would be patting Alan on the back for turning Peter Pan into a male prostitute who watches his sister tinkerbell get brutally raped by the pedophile, Captain Hook. Because that's totally what Baum had in mind when he wrote Peter and Wendy. /rant

So what do you people think? Is Mr. Moore justified in his constant complaints? Or is he a Hypocritical jack-ass who needs to stfu and go away. I think My post is quite clear on where is i stand on this.

#2 Posted by joshmightbe (24598 posts) - - Show Bio

First I must say that while I do think Moore is one of the greatest comic writers ever, yes he is an ass hole. As for the rest of your complaint I see your point but he did manage to do some impressive things and that's not even close to the worst thing that's ever happened in retelling the Peter Pan story

#3 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

Eh, as someone who tries (and fails) to write fictional stuff I sympathize with Moore. While Wathchmen and allot of his other works are indeed based on preexisting material they are unique and legendary in their own right, There is a difference to what Moore does and what DC is doing, if DC created an altered however so slightly a version of Rorschach and implanted him into the main DCU then they would have pulled a Moore, but since there essentially making Watchmen 2 its not really the same thing. Had Moore's version of Peter Pan been called Peter Pan 2 and been published by the original publisher as well as being called canon then Moore would be a hypocrite. What he did was essentially a fan fic instead of a canon portion of any of the characters he borrowed's story. Try to put yourself in Moore's shoes, imagine this, Your in school, you wright the greatest essay on Hamlet ever you turn it in to your teacher and a few years later your ex teacher calls and says, "Hey I have a good student and I want them to officially and publicly edit your prize winning essay" and you say, "No it's a complete 20 page essay, everything has been said and I don't trust this student to forever alter it" and your teacher says "well you gave it to me it's mine so there". I don't know how long it's been since you've been in schools so sorry if you don't relate to the metaphor but it came to mind so I put it. My point being that I don't think Moore could complain if they made a tribute to Watchmen but adding to it's cannon without him is entirely different than what he's done in the past and he has every right too be pissed about it

#4 Posted by PowerHerc (81468 posts) - - Show Bio

@why_you_mad_tho:Yes to everything you've stated!!!. Valid points, all!

Your perspective concerning Moore is 100% accurate. Way to put it into words! Great thread.

That said; I do think DC has been financially screwing him for years by keeping 'Watchmen' perpetually in print.

#5 Posted by Billy Batson (57741 posts) - - Show Bio

BB

#6 Posted by CATPANEXE (9368 posts) - - Show Bio

He doesn't need to be justified. He has also stated that he is a real life warlock. As in he is a magic user who controls the elements, manipulates reality using finger gestures and by speaking tongues, ect. The point being Alan says a lot of insane things, because he is insane, and it stands to reason that the majority of what comes out of his mouth will be crazy talk. That's a good reason to not care about what he says. Another is the fact that he is not a news caster, or a politician. He writes comic books. Read his comics, blank out what he preaches. Alan will have more Scotch in the near future and spew some messed up " I will not assimilated " jargon within this year again I'm certain. Around that time I will probably rant about intergalactic space ponies and how they are being oppressed by hammer head sharks of Earth. Any of you that reads that post will give it five seconds of thought at best, then move onto more important things like Peanut Butter Cups or a video game after recognizing it as some oddball whose on a manic high. You should have the same emotional and mental investment when you read and listen to his mouth music as well. Regardless of reception, Mr.Moore has a mouth, vocal chords, fingers and a pen and will continue to express his opinions, as we will all type and submit ours here, and whether whats said is relevant or not, is in itself, irrelevant.

#7 Posted by Battlepig (214 posts) - - Show Bio

While I agree that Moore is a bit of a fuckhead, he has done a lot for the medium of comics. Well, before everything was about lesbians with him. Watchmen pretty much set the new standard for superhero comics, regardless of whether or not his characters are his own or based off of previously created characters. Because that argument is kind of moot. Because if you look at it, if for example Warren Ellis has his run on, say, Thunderbolts, he works with previously established characters. And he too, is rather vocal about his stories. Sure, he's not quite as insane as Moore, but still, the two are pretty much insane and do incredible stuff with other people's characters on a regular basis.

What still makes me sympathize more with people like Ellis and not Moore is because Moore is usually an ass about everything. Watchmen movie? He goes on to deliver a three-page-long tirade against everyone involved. How about you just don't comment on it? Because regardless of what Moore has said, the movie has happened and by the point where he had his big blahblah, the movie was going to happen regardless of what he says. And sadly, it's the only thing you ever hear of Moore's anymore. He does a ton of stuff he's not nearly as vocal about (like saving his hometown's antique houses or writing comics about lesbians). Meanwhile, Warren Ellis delivers good news, bad news, funny news and generally seems to have a lot of fun.

#8 Posted by Billy Batson (57741 posts) - - Show Bio

this is probably aztek's favorite thread.

BB

#9 Posted by Saren (25272 posts) - - Show Bio

I swear there's a new thread about this every other month....

Moderator
#10 Posted by chalkshark (1182 posts) - - Show Bio

I've read a lot of comments, on various article sites, that want to paint Moore as a hypocrite, because the Watchmen were based on pre-existing characters. News flash, comic fans... every single character in comics was "based on a pre-existing character". Even Superman. Regardless of what the basis for each character was, and in this case it was the old Charlton Comic's characters, The Watchmen are not, in fact, those characters, any more than, say, Moon Knight is Batman. To sit there and say that Moore and Gibbons didn't create The Watchmen, is like saying Siegal and Shuster didn't create Superman.

People that want to paint Moore as a hypocrite due to his work on League of Extraordinary Gentlemen & Lost Girls are completely ignoring the long, complicated, contractual dispute between Moore & DC comics, over Watchmen, while also clearly not understanding what the term "public domain" means. I especially enjoy when commentators put words in the mouths of long dead authors regarding their empirical opinions on Moore's usage of their characters. Is it likely that H. G. Wells wouldn't have cared for Moore's depiction of The Invisible Man? Sure. It's just as likely that Wells would have thought it was a hoot. It's also just as likely that Wells wouldn't have cared, one way or the other. I don't actually know what H. G. Wells thoughts on the matter would have been... and neither does anyone else... because H.G. Wells has been dead for 66 years.

Moore is as justified in his complaints as anyone else is, who feels that they have been wronged or treated unfairly. Moore has a long contentious relationship with DC Comics, & I suspect that the news of the Watchmen prequels may feel like another turn of the knife to him. The very idea has clearly polarized the fan base, as well as many of the industry's creative talents. I take that as an indicator that Moore's issues are not without merit, and if there's any substance to them at all, then he should, by all means, give voice to his vitriol.

Online
#11 Posted by Hawkeye446 (3940 posts) - - Show Bio

@CATPANEXE said:

He doesn't need to be justified. He has also stated that he is a real life warlock. As in he is a magic user who controls the elements, manipulates reality using finger gestures and by speaking tongues, ect. The point being Alan says a lot of insane things, because he is insane, and it stands to reason that the majority of what comes out of his mouth will be crazy talk. That's a good reason to not care about what he says. Another is the fact that he is not a news caster, or a politician. He writes comic books. Read his comics, blank out what he preaches. Alan will have more Scotch in the near future and spew some messed up " I will not assimilated " jargon within this year again I'm certain. Around that time I will probably rant about intergalactic space ponies and how they are being oppressed by hammer head sharks of Earth. Any of you that reads that post will give it five seconds of thought at best, then move onto more important things like Peanut Butter Cups or a video game after recognizing it as some oddball whose on a manic high. You should have the same emotional and mental investment when you read and listen to his mouth music as well. Regardless of reception, Mr.Moore has a mouth, vocal chords, fingers and a pen and will continue to express his opinions, as we will all type and submit ours here, and whether whats said is relevant or not, is in itself, irrelevant.

I... Agree.

#12 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc said:

@why_you_mad_tho:Yes to everything you've stated!!!. Valid points, all!

Your perspective concerning Moore is 100% accurate. Way to put it into words! Great thread.

That said; I do think DC has been financially screwing him for years by keeping 'Watchmen' perpetually in print.

Urgh, I hate Alan Moore. Watchmen is VASTLY overrated.

So glad DC keep F-ing him in the A, serves the weird recluse right.

#13 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson said:

this is probably aztek's favorite thread.

BB

I was thinking Silky actually.

#14 Posted by Billy Batson (57741 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@Billy Batson said:

this is probably aztek's favorite thread.

BB

I was thinking Silky actually.

BB

#15 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32632 posts) - - Show Bio
@why_you_mad_tho: Alan Moore: "Hay random comic book forum guy..... how about no"
#16 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson said:

@ReVamp said:

@Billy Batson said:

this is probably aztek's favorite thread.

BB

I was thinking Silky actually.

BB

Glad you've accepted my trolling skills as superior.

#17 Posted by Billy Batson (57741 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@Billy Batson said:

@ReVamp said:

@Billy Batson said:

this is probably aztek's favorite thread.

BB

I was thinking Silky actually.

BB

Glad you've accepted my trolling skills as superior.

they aren't superior. You didn't get a thread.
BB

#18 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson said:

@ReVamp said:

@Billy Batson said:

@ReVamp said:

@Billy Batson said:

this is probably aztek's favorite thread.

BB

I was thinking Silky actually.

BB

Glad you've accepted my trolling skills as superior.

they aren't superior. You didn't get a thread.
BB

You didn't get a thread for trolling. You got a thread for being a good boy and being a pretend mod. =P

En Garde.

#19 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32632 posts) - - Show Bio
@chalkshark: He has no right to complain and neither does anyone else.
#20 Posted by Joygirl (18446 posts) - - Show Bio

Hearing overrated-ass, mediocre-at-best Alan Moore called a fanfic writer fills me with endless joy.

#21 Edited by joshmightbe (24598 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman was based on Moses and Hercules, Batman was based on Zorro, Wonder Woman was originally based on what ever dominatrix her creator had been visiting that week (seriously that golden age WW stuff stops just shy of being fetish porn) the point is complaining about character being based on other characters is pointless

#22 Posted by why_you_mad_tho (67 posts) - - Show Bio

@chalkshark said:

I've read a lot of comments, on various article sites, that want to paint Moore as a hypocrite, because the Watchmen were based on pre-existing characters. News flash, comic fans... every single character in comics was "based on a pre-existing character". Even Superman. Regardless of what the basis for each character was, and in this case it was the old Charlton Comic's characters, The Watchmen are not, in fact, those characters, any more than, say, Moon Knight is Batman. To sit there and say that Moore and Gibbons didn't create The Watchmen, is like saying Siegal and Shuster didn't create Superman.

People that want to paint Moore as a hypocrite due to his work on League of Extraordinary Gentlemen & Lost Girls are completely ignoring the long, complicated, contractual dispute between Moore & DC comics, over Watchmen, while also clearly not understanding what the term "public domain" means. I especially enjoy when commentators put words in the mouths of long dead authors regarding their empirical opinions on Moore's usage of their characters. Is it likely that H. G. Wells wouldn't have cared for Moore's depiction of The Invisible Man? Sure. It's just as likely that Wells would have thought it was a hoot. It's also just as likely that Wells wouldn't have cared, one way or the other. I don't actually know what H. G. Wells thoughts on the matter would have been... and neither does anyone else... because H.G. Wells has been dead for 66 years.

Moore is as justified in his complaints as anyone else is, who feels that they have been wronged or treated unfairly. Moore has a long contentious relationship with DC Comics, & I suspect that the news of the Watchmen prequels may feel like another turn of the knife to him. The very idea has clearly polarized the fan base, as well as many of the industry's creative talents. I take that as an indicator that Moore's issues are not without merit, and if there's any substance to them at all, then he should, by all means, give voice to his vitriol.

You're whole post was completely and totally irrelvent. Nothing you went on about has anything to do with whether you think he's a hypocrite or not. Whether or not superman was based on Hercules, and Batman on Zorro has nothing to do with Moores comments. Alan Moore constantly goes on tirades about Dc and Dc writers because they use his characters or reference his work. He claims that DC and Dc writers have no original ideas, and need to rely on his. This coming from a man who built his career on other peoples characters. Characters far more beloved than Evey Hammond and V.

Also irrelevant. What does Dc and Moores legal trouble have to do with Moore being a hypcorite? How does Lewis Caroll's characters being Public domain mean Alan moore isnt a hypocrite? You're not making any sense. But you know what, since we're on the subject. Alan Moore was sued because characters from peter pan being used in Lost Girls, because you guessed it...He did not own the rights. And Peter Pan isn't in public Domain. Whether or not HG wells Would Like moores portrayal of his characters is irrelevant. This is about Moores Comments on the use of characters as beloved as those created by Hg Wells. I dont feel the tiniest bit of sympathy for Alan Moore. Dave Gibbons himself stated he and Moore knew exactly what they were doing when they signed over the rights of V and Watchmen for a shitload of money. But Years later DC is the devil, because they wont just give you the rights back. Alan Moore sounds like a complete and total retard. He knew damn well what he was agreeing to. Dc would only give Gibbons And Moore the rights to Watchmen if DC refused to print the comic, which absolutely was not ever going to happen. But guess what, he signed anyway. Back on topic. This is about moores statements. Such as Moore pratically stating that its ludicrous to touch classic works such as Mody dick, and yet, this tool used Ishmael From Moby dick in TLOEG.

J. M. Barrie got the inspiration for Peter Pan from His brother who died young. The death crushed his mother and she was never the same. Yes, he could definitely be happy to see a character he based on his dead brother be turned into a male prostitute and hunted by pedophiles. Frank Baum based Dorothy Gale on Alice from alices adventures in wonderland and his wifes dead neice. His wife loved her like a daughter. Yup totally see he and his wife having a laugh over Dorothy banging her Unlce/father and having sex with anyone who offers. Lewis Carroll made up alice and wonderland on the spot to entertain little girls on a boat ride. He incorporated the girls he was entertaining into the story. Their parents loved it so much they told him he should write it down. Before he released the book offcially he handed it out to neighborhood children to see if they liked it. What should this tell you? It should tell you it's a children's book, and that Carrol, made these book to entertain children.. If you think that Carrol would be ok with characters he based off his friends children, being turned into sex addicted, drug abusing, orgie loving whores, who get violently raped well than thats your prerogative but here in common sense land, we know better.

Moore is hypocrtical, whiny, and just plain nonsensical in his complaints. Moore was not wronged. He knew exactly what he was doing when he signed over watchmen to DC. He has absolutely nothing to complain about. He knew, anyone with a god damn brain knew that the contact he signed essentially meant he would never be getting the rights back. Gibbons knew it, so i dont see how Moore did not. Moore doesn't need to say anything, if all he's going to say amounts to whining about something that his fault. If all hes going to say is just plain hypocritical.

#23 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't even get me started on Moore. The straw that broke the camel's back came to me today upon reading more in depth stuff regarding his reaction to the whole "Before Watchmen" event coming up. The worst came with these following insights..and I quote...

As for the readers, I have to say that if you are a reader that just wanted your favorite characters on tap forever, and never cared about the creators, then actually you're probably not the kind of reader that I was looking for. I have a huge respect for my audience. On the occasions when I meet them, they seem, I like to think, to be intelligent and scrupulous people. If people do want to go out and buy these Watchmen prequels, they would be doing me an enormous favor if they would just stop buying my other books. When I think of my audience, I like to have good thoughts and think about how lucky I am to have one that is as intelligent as mine and as moral as mine.

Anyone else see the inherent hypocrisy here? He effectively contradicts himself by saying in his first sentence that basically its his way or the highway when it comes to what he claims the audience should read and then effectively tries to backtrack by saying he has a deep reverence for the audience that reads his books. Uh, WTF? Moore, when did this become about YOU and YOU alone?! The audience you claim to have respect for is who got you to the top of your game! I have no doubt that I could be accused of taking out of context what he meant here, but nevertheless he effectively has said here that he wishes to insult our intelligence as comic book readers and say that unless we completely ascribe to his point of view (and his alone I might add), then we apparently are not "intelligent and scrupulous" and lack discerning taste. And that's not the worst of it. Not only does he wish to insult our intelligence but he seeks to think he is holier than thou to the point that he can start talking smack of others in conveying his point...

So, I wouldn't want to think that my readership were the kind of comic fans who are just addicted to a regular fix of their favorite character and, "Yeah well Jack Kirby he's not as good as he used to be, is he?" And, "Who cares that he created almost everything that Marvel have built their line upon?" And note, Jack Kirby, I'm saying, created them. I'm not even saying "Lee and Kirby." From my perspective, it looks like Jack did most of the work.

Now he's effectively putting himself in the same exact boat as The King and trying to not only say that they had the same struggle, but seems to more or less crap on Stan Lee and has quite the time of doing it! Its like he feels entitled just because he apparently didn't know how to read a contract back in the day and therefore all his great contributions came to be expanded on since they weren't "creator owned." Well Moore, get in line for that complaint window I say, sir, for the line's a million and a half miles long with people who have been screwed out of their creations. Siegel and Shuster's at the front buddy boy, and Moore hardly should feel like he's a victim. Yes I can see his point and do not get me wrong, the man is a fabulous artist. His situation is a dire and regrettable one but I hardly think anyone is going to forget his genius with the work he has done and will continue to do for years to come. He has made wonderful creations and should be proud of that and should simply just respectfully disagree if he must with what is being done in comics nowadays, not sit and whine till he's blue in the face. Seriously.

P.S. And not to make a finer point on it but in my opinion there is nothing exactly ORIGINAL about the story he created in the Watchmen in the first place! Rorschach is just the Question off of his medication mixed with Steve Ditko's Mr. A; inventive, but hardly original. Manhattan is nothing more than Spock meets Rogue Trooper meets Nathaniel Adam, am I right? And Comedian? Uh, can anyone say Nick Fury?! Fact is, Ic an go on and on with character inspiration to convey how Alan Moore's work in Watchmen lacks concise originality, but then again what truly is original nowadays that hasn't been begged, borrowed or stolen from someone else? The point is...Moore's got a lot of nerve to be going over how the industry apparently "rapes" his clearly original work and then gets mad that they are taking it in directions that are entirely unoriginal when there was no clear originality to the characters in the first place. The only thing original about the book is the degree to which it made us as the audience sit back and think to what new level comics finally reached at the dawning of the Modern Age of Comic books. So really Alan, be proud you created a work that can be added to and worked on, and stop with your griping for once!

#24 Posted by Mercy_ (92444 posts) - - Show Bio

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#25 Posted by Red_Jack (285 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think all of you understand the reason Moore is so bitter about his material being used for crap films. It's more to do with his regret with joining DC. He suddenly found all his material being used without his consent or blessing.

Perhaps there is a possessive nature there (hey that's MY work, give that back!) but I reckon a lot of people in his position would react the same. Only difference being, hardly anyone can create stories anywhere near as good as he does.

#26 Posted by drgnx (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

The Man does need to get over himself, watchmen isn't the bible some claim it to be ...

The guy seems to think everything DC does is to spite him @_@

Old post

Over the past few years, Moore has been particularly cranky and disrespectful to the current crop of comics professionals, mostly because none of them (at least in his mind) have managed to produce a creative product that equals or even surpasses works such as his Watchmen series with Dave Gibbons.

@Joygirl said:

Hearing overrated-ass, mediocre-at-best Alan Moore called a fanfic writer fills me with endless joy.
#27 Posted by Teerack (5319 posts) - - Show Bio

Allen Moore is completely justified in being upset with people going back and messing with his work. You can try and say that some of his characters are based on other characters, but those arguments are always very weak. I'm sure you're thinking in your head batman and the question have so much in common with Rorshach, but back when Watchmen actually came out they literally had nothing in common. Batman and other main stream comics didn't really start to try and be dark until the mid 70's And the fact that you compared Moebey Dick to the tails of the black freighter tells me you've never taken the time to read Moeby Dick.

Saying Allen Moore made all his money off other people's work is ridiculous. The stories he's wrote have beautiful symbolism and great social satire. He's writes people in a believable way, and hi's overall plot was very unique. All of his work also had a very distinct Moore style uniquely his own.

Think about the most recent star wars movies. Wouldn't it be justifiable for George Lucas to be mad about those if someone else had created them? He told a story from beginning to end and it should of been left alone.

I read all of the new watchmen books and they were all really good to be honest, but also completely pointless.

#28 Posted by turoksonofstone (13199 posts) - - Show Bio

@why_you_mad_tho said:

When ever Alan Moore is brought up, i automatically think of someone who's career consists of making money off other peoples work. Watchmen, the most persistent source of Alan's tirades was based on pre existing comic characters. Just about every famous literally character you can think of has made it on the pages of the Alan Moore's The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. And yet, for some reason, every single time I hear about this crotchety old vag fart, he's complaining about someone "messing with his work". And how this guy and that guy is devoid of any ideas. This is a quote from moore i read earlier today that literally made me laugh out loud.

" As far as I know, there weren’t that many prequels or sequels to Moby Dick.”

This is the man who turned Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, Dorian Gray, Ishmael from Moby Dick, the invisible man and Captain Nemo into crime fighting Super heroes. Does he seriously believe that Lewis Carroll, Frank Baum, and J. M. Barrie would approve of Moores portrayal of their characters in lost Girls? Yes i can totally see, Baum being ok with Dorothy being turned into a sex addicted coke whore who has sex with her own father. Im sure Mr. Barrie would be patting Alan on the back for turning Peter Pan into a male prostitute who watches his sister tinkerbell get brutally raped by the pedophile, Captain Hook. Because that's totally what Baum had in mind when he wrote Peter and Wendy. /rant

So what do you people think? Is Mr. Moore justified in his constant complaints? Or is he a Hypocritical jack-ass who needs to stfu and go away. I think My post is quite clear on where is i stand on this.

No. Just No. The above is naught but douchebaggery.

#29 Posted by turoksonofstone (13199 posts) - - Show Bio

@Teerack said:

Allen Moore is completely justified in being upset with people going back and messing with his work. You can try and say that some of his characters are based on other characters, but those arguments are always very weak. I'm sure you're thinking in your head batman and the question have so much in common with Rorshach, but back when Watchmen actually came out they literally had nothing in common. Batman and other main stream comics didn't really start to try and be dark until the mid 70's And the fact that you compared Moebey Dick to the tails of the black freighter tells me you've never taken the time to read Moeby Dick.

Saying Allen Moore made all his money off other people's work is ridiculous. The stories he's wrote have beautiful symbolism and great social satire. He's writes people in a believable way, and hi's overall plot was very unique. All of his work also had a very distinct Moore style uniquely his own.

Think about the most recent star wars movies. Wouldn't it be justifiable for George Lucas to be mad about those if someone else had created them? He told a story from beginning to end and it should of been left alone.

I read all of the new watchmen books and they were all really good to be honest, but also completely pointless.

lol this

#30 Posted by Dernman (14713 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan Moore does need to STFU. I get that he doesn't like what he sees as people messing with his work but guess what. He sold it and they can do whatever the F*&^* they want with it because it's now theirs.

Online
#31 Posted by WhatJ (21 posts) - - Show Bio

Most of these posts are dead wrong and way out of context ...What characters from the Watchmen did Moore steal? that story was groundbreaking at the time it came out and if you dont know that then you did not read it when it came out. Thou I am not sure of the age of the posters here I will say you better do some more research in to the topic before writing this kind of garbage..

Also Jack Kirby and a lot of other did get ripped off look it up it was sad really with all the millions of dollars that have been made you would think that there is plenty to go around...

And one more thing let me know when your next comic or graphic novel is coming out or you STFU with your half truth slander talk..

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